The Power of God

[Scrawly]

And when I came to you, brethren, I did not come with superiority of speech or of wisdom, proclaiming to you the testimony of God. For I determined to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ, and Him crucified. I was with you in weakness and in fear and in much trembling, and my message and my preaching were not in persuasive words of wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power, so that your faith would not rest on the wisdom of men, but on the power of God. (1Cor. 2:1-5).

Hi friends, let's contextualize the above verses and then proceed to explain the bolded. Let's hone in on the "demonstration of the Spirit and of power" and "power of God". Precisely what does that mean? How does it manifest itself? I'm guessing not like this:

[Cow Poke]

How does this edify the body?

And, just as a side note, when we see people worship the Lord in the Bible, they fall on their face. When they are experiencing the judgment of God, they fall backward.

[Sparko]

The dude is a Jedi!

yeah what CP said.

I think what Paul meant was even though he came in weakness and his speech was not eloquent, people were saved and convicted by the power of God through the Holy Spirit. Not some magic show.

[Truthseeker]

I think what Paul meant was even though he came in weakness and his speech was not eloquent, people were saved and convicted by the power of God through the Holy Spirit. Not some magic show.

You are going to be convicted (not convinced) of bad word choice . . . hmmm, maybe you did mean "convicted." Yeah, that does seem to make sense.

[Paula]

The dude is a Jedi!

yeah what CP said.

I think what Paul meant was even though he came in weakness and his speech was not eloquent, people were saved and convicted by the power of God through the Holy Spirit. Not some magic show.

I think that makes sense, after-all, it is the Holy Spirit who convicts people. And this conviction is an internal spiritual thing not...throwing people around.

Although I do have to wonder about this because at least in his letters and as reported in Acts, Paul doesn't come across as someone weak or lacking in eloquence. Quite the opposite. God inspires scripture, but I don't think that means scripture is completely devoid of any reflection of the human authors. And from what we have from Paul, he comes across as a highly educated and intelligent leader, not trembling or stuttering or timid. Of course, I could be wrong. Anyone have any thoughts on this or how it would relate to what Paul said?

[Christianbookworm]

Wouldn't throwing people around be potentially lethal? Merely knocking some one over wouldn't be impressive.

[Scrawly]

The dude is a Jedi!

yeah what CP said.

I think what Paul meant was even though he came in weakness and his speech was not eloquent, people were saved and convicted by the power of God through the Holy Spirit. Not some magic show.

How do you think the power of God and the Holy Spirit manifested in Paul's preaching, how was it "demonstrated"?

[Scrawly]

I think that makes sense, after-all, it is the Holy Spirit who convicts people. And this conviction is an internal spiritual thing not...throwing people around.

Although I do have to wonder about this because at least in his letters and as reported in Acts, Paul doesn't come across as someone weak or lacking in eloquence. Quite the opposite. God inspires scripture, but I don't think that means scripture is completely devoid of any reflection of the human authors. And from what we have from Paul, he comes across as a highly educated and intelligent leader, not trembling or stuttering or timid. Of course, I could be wrong. Anyone have any thoughts on this or how it would relate to what Paul said?

Corinth had it's fair share of professional orator's and sophist's so it's possible that Paul deliberately held back. He didn't want the Corinthian's to place his preaching in the same category as the sophist's "so that [their] faith would not rest on the wisdom of men, but on the power of God." My question is what did he do by giving such provision to the Spirit's power? Raise his voice? Bang on the "pulpit"?

[Sparko]

I think that makes sense, after-all, it is the Holy Spirit who convicts people. And this conviction is an internal spiritual thing not...throwing people around.

Although I do have to wonder about this because at least in his letters and as reported in Acts, Paul doesn't come across as someone weak or lacking in eloquence. Quite the opposite. God inspires scripture, but I don't think that means scripture is completely devoid of any reflection of the human authors. And from what we have from Paul, he comes across as a highly educated and intelligent leader, not trembling or stuttering or timid. Of course, I could be wrong. Anyone have any thoughts on this or how it would relate to what Paul said?

well if he was such an eloquent speaker, then he could have purposefully spoke without eloquence. Or perhaps he didn't do as well in public speaking as he did in his letters. Writing is easier than speaking in front of a crowd, you have more time to gather your thoughts.

[Sparko]

How do you think the power of God and the Holy Spirit manifested in Paul's preaching, how was it "demonstrated"?

By people coming to Christ.

I had that happen to me once. I was (am) not very good at "preaching" the gospel with people, and I had volunteered at a free medical/clothing clinic at our church once. I was basically an "advocate" who took people around to the various stations to get their teeth checked, then medical needs met, then to a food pantry and clothing center if needed. During the trip I was supposed to share the gospel but I was not very good at it and pretty shy, so after leading someone through the system, I was sitting in the pews feeling bad because I had not gotten anyone to come to Christ. The preacher sat down and asked what was wrong and I told him. He said to me that it was not my job to convince them, that was the job of the Holy Spirit, and that all I had to do was ask them if they wanted to know more about Jesus and if they said yes, to tell them a quick summary of the gospel. And offer to pray with them for any needs they had. So I said, "OK that makes sense" and then the preacher said "look over there, that guy just came in and he needs you to help him find his way around" - so I went to the guy and basically just came out and said "welcome, my name is ____. I am going to be your advocate and take you around the stations. In the meantime let me tell you about Jesus" and I told him the basics about how Jesus died on the cross and was resurrected and that through his sacrifice we could be forgiven and have eternal life. Then I asked him if he would like me to pray with him about anything or would he want to know more? And bam. He said he wanted to be saved and wanted to know how to pray to God and accept Jesus. It sure wasn't my words that convinced him. I was stuttering and shaking the whole time, and I only blurted out the basics. It was the Holy Spirit that did the converting. The power of God was demonstrated for me and him right then and there. God took my lousy speech and made it touch the man's heart.

[Cow Poke]

How do you think the power of God and the Holy Spirit manifested in Paul's preaching, how was it "demonstrated"?

By people turning to Christ.

[Scrawly]

By people turning to Christ.

Sure, Paul certainly has conversion in view. He believes that "..the gospel is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes.."(Rom. 1:16). Yet I think there was more going on at times - being filled with the Spirit and demonstrating the Spirit's power through gospel proclamation was done with deep conviction in the Holy Spirit (1 Thes. 1:5) that at times resulted in manifestations of miracles (Acts. 14:3).

[Rushing Jaws]

I think that makes sense, after-all, it is the Holy Spirit who convicts people. And this conviction is an internal spiritual thing not...throwing people around.

Although I do have to wonder about this because at least in his letters and as reported in Acts, Paul doesn't come across as someone weak or lacking in eloquence. Quite the opposite. God inspires scripture, but I don't think that means scripture is completely devoid of any reflection of the human authors. And from what we have from Paul, he comes across as a highly educated and intelligent leader, not trembling or stuttering or timid. Of course, I could be wrong. Anyone have any thoughts on this or how it would relate to what Paul said?

Maybe he was referring to the difference between what men can achieve by their natural gifts, and what can be done through them when God gives His power to their ministry ?

[Cow Poke]

"Convince" not "convict"?

[Jhn 16:7-11 KJV] 7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you. 8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: 9 Of sin, because they believe not on me; 10 Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more; 11 Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.

Thayer's Greek Lexicon -- Reprove - elegchō

reprove.jpg

[Truthseeker]

[Jhn 16:7-11 KJV] 7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you. 8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: 9 Of sin, because they believe not on me; 10 Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more; 11 Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.

Thayer's Greek Lexicon -- Reprove - elegchō

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Paula apparently confused the two meanings of "conviction":
1) the state of being convinced about something and
2) the state of being convicted of some evil-doing.
I myself thought that "convicted" had only one meaning (sense 1 above), until recently.
I think sense 1 (see above) is right for 1 Thessalonians 1:5.