Anti-Christ& False Prophet

[outcast]

Who do you think the False prophet will be, and where will he come from??

I think he will be the next Pope, my speculation, according to the prophecy of St. maliki (spelling unsure) He was a pope who prophesied that their would be 22 more popes after him and the last Pope would take on the name of Peter,

Who do you think that the Anti-Christ will be ?
not toatly sold on that one, I used to beleive that he would come out of the European Uninon and he still could but i dont think he will be european nationality, I lean tword him being a muslim.

[LilPunkishOfTerror]

Hi outcast

can you provide me with the source reference to this 'there will be 22 more popes' claim?

[outcast]

The prophecy of St. Malaki was i think back in the early 1100-1500, i will try and find it i used to have it, but it might take awhile.

[NathanDavid]

See my post on the thread "2 Thessalonians 2 Again" and you'll have your questions answered. Go to the ICRC website and see his face, their founding father...

[undead]

Who do you think the False prophet will be, and where will he come from??

From what I can make out it is the papal power, not any specific individual, because beasts represent powers not people.

Or it could be organized false religion, with the papal power as one horn, and Islam as the other.

The close relationships between papal power and anti-christian government, and between Islam and anti-christian government, are well known.

For a long time, the papal power decided the fate of nations, was enslaved to money and gold, and controlled obedience via the power of excommunication, inquisition and formal anathemitizaion. Similarly with Islam.

However Islam is referred to elsewhere in Rev, i.e. locusts out of the abyss, so may be Islam is not really a false prophet of Christianity any more than any one OT based religious heresy - rather just opposed to Christianity altogether, much like communism or Nazism or any other pseudo-political religion. Islam is probably more of a anti-Christian political set up, that a false prophet of Christ, and certainly does not claim to work miracles. Rather it is just a simple Christ denier, much like communism.

So possibly the second beast is Romon religion in the Christian era, with the two horns of Catholicism and Orthodoxy both miracle working and considered to be supportive of anti-Christian secular government.

[NathanDavid]

Undead,

I have a link that will explain most of Revelation 13. I haven't read this revision in a long time, but it is my work. I have revised this research several times since it draft was originally released, but this older revision still contains many of the answers that you are looking for. Make sure to read Revelation 17:8. You'll better understand how it is that the ancient Roman (or world) government of old is shadow puppeted into the new world government of today.

There are quite a few grammatical errors in this early release, and you may even encounter an occaisional minor theological issue that has since been corrected (since its 1992 release), but the bulk of what you'll find in this work is accurate and powerful to ingest. I had a friend proof my research when I was publishing it as a free book back in the mid 1990's, but this old revision is from "way back when." I don't know how this revision has managed to re-surface on the web, having been revised and improved so many (about seven) times since its release. Since I lost my word processing files in a 2001 HD crash, I'm just glad that someone has the bulk of this work still available online!

I do have JPG's (and even a Powerpoint presentation) of my most recent revision that I still give away for free on CD and DVD. It was available online in its entirety a few years ago, but Google deleted my files, and I have yet to create a new site. My last revision was still being called the "In The Works Revision," when my PC crashed. It contains a few crude illustrations and several bits of personal testimony that are not in the online essay revision, but again, the essay has alot of info in it (some of which has been ommitted from the current revision due to redundancy).

Happy reading!

http://freegroups.net/library/The_Reading_Room/Doctrines_n_Theology_2/UN_Resolution_666.shtml

[undead]

Undead,

I have a link that will explain most of Revelation 13. I haven't read this revision in a long time, but it is my work. I have revised this research several times since it draft was originally released, but this older revision still contains many of the answers that you are looking for. Make sure to read Revelation 17:8. You'll better understand how it is that the ancient Roman (or world) government of old is shadow puppeted into the new world government of today.

There are quite a few grammatical errors in this early release, and you may even encounter an occaisional minor theological issue that has since been corrected (since its 1992 release), but the bulk of what you'll find in this work is accurate and powerful to ingest. I had a friend proof my research when I was publishing it as a free book back in the mid 1990's, but this old revision is from "way back when." I don't know how this revision has managed to re-surface on the web, having been revised and improved so many (about seven) times since its release. Since I lost my word processing files in a 2001 HD crash, I'm just glad that someone has the bulk of this work still available online!

I do have JPG's (and even a Powerpoint presentation) of my most recent revision that I still give away for free on CD and DVD. It was available online in its entirety a few years ago, but Google deleted my files, and I have yet to create a new site. My last revision was still being called the "In The Works Revision," when my PC crashed. It contains a few crude illustrations and several bits of personal testimony that are not in the online essay revision, but again, the essay has alot of info in it (some of which has been ommitted from the current revision due to redundancy).

Happy reading!

http://freegroups.net/library/The_Reading_Room/Doctrines_n_Theology_2/UN_Resolution_666.shtml

Hi

I am disturbed by your eschatology


The tribulation consists of false prophets, signs and wonders. The rapture of the Christians who remain true to God's word is to take place following the tribulations of which Jesus spake. An even greater tribulation (the millennial reign) will follow the rapture, followed by the final conflict - which ultimately, is God's wrath.

You mean to say you didn't notice God's wrath poured out in the last century? See Death Tolls for the Man-made Megadeaths of the 20th Century (http://users.erols.com/mwhite28/warstatz.htm#WW1&2)

I am afraid I do not ascribe to this rapture nonsense. Or at least, when the church is gathered to heaven, that will be the end of the world and the last judgment.

I have read bits of our work but I think it displays a disturbing preoccupation with minutiae details which Revelation simply does not deal with. Revelation deals in grand schemes, large events, but especially wtith powers and religions based on the Roman model. There are hardly any "Christian" organizations in the world except churches and missionary societies. I strongly encourage you to refrain from spending so much time propagating this kind of stuff. It will only wreck your life; and even your church, if you have one. There are far more cogent interpretations of Revelation in the world than yours; and these have been known for hundreds of years.

[TyRockwell]

Undead,

I have a link that will explain most of Revelation 13. I haven't read this revision in a long time, but it is my work. I have revised this research several times since it draft was originally released, but this older revision still contains many of the answers that you are looking for. Make sure to read Revelation 17:8. You'll better understand how it is that the ancient Roman (or world) government of old is shadow puppeted into the new world government of today.

There are quite a few grammatical errors in this early release, and you may even encounter an occaisional minor theological issue that has since been corrected (since its 1992 release), but the bulk of what you'll find in this work is accurate and powerful to ingest. I had a friend proof my research when I was publishing it as a free book back in the mid 1990's, but this old revision is from "way back when." I don't know how this revision has managed to re-surface on the web, having been revised and improved so many (about seven) times since its release. Since I lost my word processing files in a 2001 HD crash, I'm just glad that someone has the bulk of this work still available online!

I do have JPG's (and even a Powerpoint presentation) of my most recent revision that I still give away for free on CD and DVD. It was available online in its entirety a few years ago, but Google deleted my files, and I have yet to create a new site. My last revision was still being called the "In The Works Revision," when my PC crashed. It contains a few crude illustrations and several bits of personal testimony that are not in the online essay revision, but again, the essay has alot of info in it (some of which has been ommitted from the current revision due to redundancy).

Happy reading!

http://freegroups.net/library/The_Reading_Room/Doctrines_n_Theology_2/UN_Resolution_666.shtml

:no:

[TyRockwell]

Hi

I am disturbed by your eschatology


You mean to say you didn't notice God's wrath poured out in the last century? See Death Tolls for the Man-made Megadeaths of the 20th Century (http://users.erols.com/mwhite28/warstatz.htm#WW1&2)

I am afraid I do not ascribe to this rapture nonsense. Or at least, when the church is gathered to heaven, that will be the end of the world and the last judgment.

I have read bits of our work but I think it displays a disturbing preoccupation with minutiae details which Revelation simply does not deal with. Revelation deals in grand schemes, large events, but especially wtith powers and religions based on the Roman model. There are hardly any "Christian" organizations in the world except churches and missionary societies. I strongly encourage you to refrain from spending so much time propagating this kind of stuff. It will only wreck your life; and even your church, if you have one. There are far more cogent interpretations of Revelation in the world than yours; and these have been known for hundreds of years.


:eek:

[NathanDavid]

Undead,

My newer revisions do not address an "even greater tribulation." If I correctly recall, I removed that section of my writings in about the fifth revision, because it was doctrine that I had picked up from exposure in churches as a young Christian many decades ago. I do not know where that exact notion originated. I also, now, acknowledge that tribulation is defined as persecution (or crowding I think) of the righteous. Since after the rapture there are no more righteous here, but only Satan to be revealed unto himself, thus there can be no "great tribulation." There is a place where Satan is bound for 1000 years, though. I really try not to teach on that one any more, like I said, because I don't think it wise to teach in areas where I am not well founded. We do get caught up, though, with Christ, and in the clouds. Read Mark 13:24. Thank you for your remark. That old essay is one of my first releases, back in 1992 or so. I have tried to contact the web master who maintains its availability online, but I may just have to mail them a copy of my book on DVD and allow them to realize that my original work was in error and needs to be replaced with my latest revision. They don't even list my name with my essay on that link. I don't remember if I listed the word (or emblem) for copyrighting my work back then, because I was so frantic to get the message out once I learned of the precedence set in the UN Resolution 666. I've only copyrwritten my work in that it can only be used non-commercially and in public domain for free distribution, provided it is presented in unadulterated form and complete.

[TyRockwell]

"After the 'rapture' there are no more righteous here," is a man made error that is not found in the Bible. There is no excuse for it.

[NathanDavid]

TyRockwell, Christ described the removal of the church: that there would be two in the bed, and one would be taken. That there would be two in the field, and one taken. He said that He will be coming like a thief in the night, and in twinkling of an eye, with no notice (other than the signs he gave us to help us keep the faith). He described a supernatural quickening like gathering of His elect. The Bible says that unless God shortened the days no flesh would be saved... for the elects' sake God has shortened the days.

Explain to me why you do not believe in a rapture (or removal) of the church, Tyrockwell. Please explain what all of those teachings in the Bible are referring to. Here is your shot. I will give it an in depth look, if your basis is founded in and based on truth (Bible) and not in/on some post-Bible writings or other false prophets'/prophetess' teaching (eg. Book of Mormon, or books offered by the Seven Day Adventists).

[TyRockwell]

TyRockwell, Christ described the removal of the church: that there would be two in the bed, and one would be taken. That there would be two in the field, and one taken.

The issue is, who is taken. Matthew 13:28-30
Do you want us to gather them up? But he said, 'No, lest while you gather up the tares you also uproot the wheat with them. Let both grow together until the harvest, and at the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, First gather together the tares and bind them in bundles to burn them, but gather the wheat into my barn." '

Matthew 13:37-43
He who sows the good seed is the Son of Man. The field is the world, the good seeds are the sons of the kingdom, but the tares are the sons of the wicked one.

The enemy who sowed them is the devil, the harvest is the end of the age (Rev. 14:15), and the reapers are the angels. Therefore as the tares are gayhered and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of this age.

The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who practice lawlessness, and will cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

Then the righteous will shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears to hear, let him hear!


He said that He will be coming like a thief in the night, and in twinkling of an eye, with no notice (other than the signs he gave us to help us keep the faith). He described a supernatural quickening like gathering of His elect. The Bible says that unless God shortened the days no flesh would be saved... for the elects' sake God has shortened the days.
You are mixing up the end of the age with 70 AD.

Explain to me why you do not believe in a rapture (or removal) of the church, Tyrockwell. Please explain what all of those teachings in the Bible are referring to. Here is your shot. I will give it an in depth look, if your basis is founded in and based on truth (Bible) and not in/on some post-Bible writings or other false prophets'/prophetess' teaching (eg. Book of Mormon, or books offered by the Seven Day Adventists).

I don't use morman or seventh day adventist doctrines. I use the Bible only.

Jesus wants the righteous to shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. That is here on earth. Nowhere does the Bible say the church goes to heaven. God created man to have dominion on earth (Gen. 1:26), not in heaven.

Rev. 4:1is not a rapture. John was taken to see the throne of God. It was no rapture. Isaiah saw the throne of God. It was no rapture. Ezekiel saw the throne of God. It was no rapture. Daniel saw the throne of God. It was no rapture. Rev. 4:1 was 90-95 AD on Patmos only. John returned in the flesh, not changed to immortal, and later left the Isle of Patmos.

We are living in Rev. 13 through 17 right now. Rev. 11 is still future, just before the seventh trumpet, which is the last trumpet.

[NathanDavid]

TyRockwell,

Very good. I've never before noticed that Mathew parable where Christ said, "gather first the tares..." I think you may have just helped me to come to terms with one brief unsettling about the last revision of my book, in the chapter where I described a post tribulation rapture. The revision explained that God has a plan for the church through the tribulation, and that some of us will make it through the tribulation alive. I had just discovered that verse in Revelation 13 that bounces back to a Psalms verse about "the loving kindness of the Lord," so I'd quoted some passages from David and Solomon. At the end of my revision I was yet a little perplexed at the notion of a rapture, given the verses that I was quoting, so I just decided that being "caught up in the clouds" in a rapture was not the same as "turning the world over to Satan as an inheritance." I recall having added a verse to my book that says, "The righteous shall never be removed...."

I need to get the latest revision of my book to you. Maybe you can read it and help me with a few "twigs." My last revision is much improved from the earlier essay version that can be found on Freegroups.net. Each revision gets me a little closer to perfection. I currently am about 100% correct in my teaching (if I can come to terms on this no rapture notion), but I don't attempt to teach everything. I have, in the last several revisions, requested in the introductory chapters that I be contacted with errors that are found in the book (as instructed in Ezekiel). I don't want to be a false teacher.

Because of my HD crashed in 2001 I no longer have any word processing files for my book. All I have is JPGs where I scanned it back into my PC. Editing it is quite difficult, seeing that I have to use my Adobe. Would you mind trying the Spirits in my book and sharing your countering views? I think you and I need to work together on some issues. I know that I have a calling. Not every one is the treasure for the anti-Christ's bloodbank and then led to expose them as the anti-Christ (mirror opposite of Judas Iscariot's role), as has been my career experience. I didn't make that observance about my position as their treasurer until I'd been publishing my work for several years (at the same time that I began publishing my observance that giving tithes and offerings to churh through non-Christian charities on your job is the same thing as returning bishoprick to Judas Iscariot).

Apparently the churches are confusing that "the dead in Christ shall arise first" with the gathering together of the righteous. You believe in physical resurrection, don't you? I mean, you do believe that Christ physically arose from the dead, don't you? You know, this is a tough collection of ideologies that we are working through. The Seventh Day Adventists merely believe in a figurative mark of the beast, that being a Sunday Sabbath instead of a Saturday Sabbath, but history clearly points us beyond just the old Roman Empire, and the Bible guides us to see what clearly is in the making - a world security system where computer chips and/or tattoos can and will be used on human beings (and to some extent, by volunteer, are being implanted).

Email me, and I'll get a copy of my book to you, Ty. Thanks.

[ChemMJW]

Popes have been accused of being the Antichrist for centuries, and yet unsurprisingly we're all still here, things are humming along as they always have, and no horsemen are riding across the sky heralding the end of the world in a fiery judgment.

Might it just perhaps be possible that accusations that so-and-so is the Antichrist have more to do with petty political and religious squabbles and the desire for temporal power in the here-and-now rather than with any real evidence about who or what the Antichrist will be?

[NathanDavid]

Oh, there's real evidence. You can start here:

http://freegroups.net/library/The_Reading_Room/Doctrines_n_Theology_2/UN_Resolution_666.shtml

but be careful that this is an old release of my research that has been revised seven times, probably to be re-released some day. The anti-Christ false prophet is not a Pope. The Roman Empire, however, is the first evidence of the notion of a world power, and it is symbolized (shares the role) as the seven headed beast of Revelation 13 and 17, etc... But there is a verse in Rev 17:8 that makes the connection from that old empire to today's new fashioned world government. There is a ton of evidence supporting that the anti-Christ movement is upon us, and that the false prophet, Jean Henri Dunant, died in 1910, but that his following continue his work in the fashion of a mock church (eg. the body of and bride to Christ).

[ravenlorre]

John wrote about the Unholy Trinity (Dragon, Beast, Anti-Christ) in the book of Revelation. The people alive during the time the book was circulated understood the symbolize - we are not as privileged as they were.

What we do know is that the Book of Revelation speaks about the unholy trinity - Rome or dragon (the city on 7 hills), the beast ( the government of Rome and the powers that kept it dominate), the Anti-Christ, the fifth head of the beast - wounded. The numbers make the identity of the Anti-Christ - the fifth head of the beast power - 666 or Nero. He is the only figure that fits the fifth head of the beast or the last of the line of related Caesars.

The fact is, the unholy trinity, juxtaposed to the Holy Trinity was alive during the time of Christ and is still alive today. The focus of this evil is to exploit the poor for the benefit of the rich. Today the beast power has taken the form of government, cooperation, and media. All three support each other by exploiting the poor.

Unfortunately, the Church (although prevented from absolute corruption) is not immune from the evil of the unholy trinity - even the hierarchy of the Catholic Church (along with other churches) has been used to suppress the poor - the effects of the beast power.

blessings

[TyRockwell]

TyRockwell,

Very good. I've never before noticed that Mathew parable where Christ said, "gather first the tares..." I think you may have just helped me to come to terms with one brief unsettling about the last revision of my book, in the chapter where I described a post tribulation rapture. The revision explained that God has a plan for the church through the tribulation, and that some of us will make it through the tribulation alive. I had just discovered that verse in Revelation 13 that bounces back to a Psalms verse about "the loving kindness of the Lord," so I'd quoted some passages from David and Solomon. At the end of my revision I was yet a little perplexed at the notion of a rapture, given the verses that I was quoting, so I just decided that being "caught up in the clouds" in a rapture was not the same as "turning the world over to Satan as an inheritance." I recall having added a verse to my book that says, "The righteous shall never be removed...."

I need to get the latest revision of my book to you. Maybe you can read it and help me with a few "twigs." My last revision is much improved from the earlier essay version that can be found on Freegroups.net. Each revision gets me a little closer to perfection. I currently am about 100% correct in my teaching (if I can come to terms on this no rapture notion), but I don't attempt to teach everything. I have, in the last several revisions, requested in the introductory chapters that I be contacted with errors that are found in the book (as instructed in Ezekiel). I don't want to be a false teacher.

Because of my HD crashed in 2001 I no longer have any word processing files for my book. All I have is JPGs where I scanned it back into my PC. Editing it is quite difficult, seeing that I have to use my Adobe. Would you mind trying the Spirits in my book and sharing your countering views? I think you and I need to work together on some issues. I know that I have a calling. Not every one is the treasure for the anti-Christ's bloodbank and then led to expose them as the anti-Christ (mirror opposite of Judas Iscariot's role), as has been my career experience. I didn't make that observance about my position as their treasurer until I'd been publishing my work for several years (at the same time that I began publishing my observance that giving tithes and offerings to churh through non-Christian charities on your job is the same thing as returning bishoprick to Judas Iscariot).

Apparently the churches are confusing that "the dead in Christ shall arise first" with the gathering together of the righteous. You believe in physical resurrection, don't you? I mean, you do believe that Christ physically arose from the dead, don't you? You know, this is a tough collection of ideologies that we are working through. The Seventh Day Adventists merely believe in a figurative mark of the beast, that being a Sunday Sabbath instead of a Saturday Sabbath, but history clearly points us beyond just the old Roman Empire, and the Bible guides us to see what clearly is in the making - a world security system where computer chips and/or tattoos can and will be used on human beings (and to some extent, by volunteer, are being implanted).

Email me, and I'll get a copy of my book to you, Ty. Thanks.
I suggest you get my book, The End From The Beginning. See my signature below.

I can tell from your post that you still have some of the old ideas of a terrible future tribulation. Jesus said that the worst part of the tribulation would begin in the apostles lifetimes, (before 70AD) and that it would never be that bad again. "For then there will be great tribulation such as has not been since the beginning of the world unto this time, no nor shall ever be."

The kingdom of God has been forcefully advancing since then. The long tribulation is nearing its end. Things are getting better, not worse.

[TyRockwell]

Oh, there's real evidence. You can start here:

http://freegroups.net/library/The_Reading_Room/Doctrines_n_Theology_2/UN_Resolution_666.shtml

but be careful that this is an old release of my research that has been revised seven times, probably to be re-released some day. The anti-Christ false prophet is not a Pope. The Roman Empire, however, is the first evidence of the notion of a world power, and it is symbolized (shares the role) as the seven headed beast of Revelation 13 and 17, etc... But there is a verse in Rev 17:8 that makes the connection from that old empire to today's new fashioned world government. There is a ton of evidence supporting that the anti-Christ movement is upon us, and that the false prophet, Jean Henri Dunant, died in 1910, but that his following continue his work in the fashion of a mock church (eg. the body of and bride to Christ).

Jean Henri Dunant was not the false prophet. :no:
It is not any one man. It is a 'movement,' but it is an evil spirit directed one.

[NathanDavid]

Okay, TyRockwell... now I know you are in error. My most recent revision will be available on that site very soon. You can then read and see how it all plays together. The beast is not a man, the false prophet was a man. Read around Daniel 7:25. He seeks to change times and laws. He never has need of a woman. This is Jean Henri Dunant.

Have you read his quote yet? Please, you have been a little help to me in offering Mathew 13:27, but don't blow it here. You are wrong, period.

[TyRockwell]

Okay, TyRockwell... now I know you are in error. My most recent revision will be available on that site very soon. You can then read and see how it all plays together. The beast is not a man, the false prophet was a man. Read around Daniel 7:25. He seeks to change times and laws. He never has need of a woman. This is Jean Henri Dunant.
Daniel 7:25 refers to the fourth beast of that chapters four beasts, corresponding to the fourth empire in Daniel 2, the Roman empire. If you'll see it in context, the beast having to do with the Roman empire is one of the beast/spirits that the four winds churned up out of the great sea (Daniel 7:2-8).

The four beasts were of the same four empires of Daniel 2, Babylon, Persia, Greece, and Rome. The four beasts are described as weird animals, because they are spirits, not men.

The man in this scenario, who spoke against the Most High and oppressed the saints during the Roman empire was its Caesar, Nero. Daniel 7:8 says the little horn, had eyes like a man and spoke boastfully, like a man. All the Ceasars were called 'Exalted', which is what "August" means, and they were considered, and some considered themselves a 'god.'

That passage in Daniel 7 has nothing to do with the false prophet of Revelation, by almost 2000 years of time between the two scenes.

Have you read his quote yet? Please, you have been a little help to me in offering Mathew 13:27, but don't blow it here. You are wrong, period.

You sound like you are of that 'repeat-after-me' training in prophecy that does not even see Rome in the time of Jesus in Daniel 2 and 7.

[NathanDavid]

TyRockwell,

Have you ever read the verse in Rev 13 that says "it is the number of a man..." Now, before you go on and start preaching that that merely means the 666 is Satan's use of man to mock the trinity, declaring himself as the Father, Son and Holy Spirit, in his denial of God, in that man's day is the sixth day on which he was created... and man's denial is that mockery... well, that is already in my book! But..., the "number of a man" does not JUST mean "humanity." Humanity is one of the seven heads of the beast, and yet it is not even the head that has the wound by a Sword. That head is the ICRC's principle of neutrality, because Christians cannot remain neutral in ANY sense of the word. So, that passage from Rev 13 is referring TO A MAN IN PARTICULAR. The blasphemous man whose creation (the ICRC) was empowered/authorized by UN Resolution 666, was Jean Henri Dunant. If you can not accept that, then fine, I'll shake the dust from my feet and not look back.

Knowledge puffeth up. You surely know alot of history, but what is that if you only look 2000 years backward for miracles and truthes? Christ said that when summer is near the fig tree puts forth new tender branches. Those branches are what I am trying to share with you. Why don't you help yourself to a leaf instead of looking for an old unfruitful branch that might just break off and land on your head?

That reminds me, I have to prune my orchard tomorrow...

[TyRockwell]

TyRockwell,

Have you ever read the verse in Rev 13 that says "it is the number of a man..." Now, before you go on and start preaching that that merely means the 666 is Satan's use of man to mock the trinity, declaring himself as the Father, Son and Holy Spirit, in his denial of God, in that man's day is the sixth day on which he was created... and man's denial is that mockery... well, that is already in my book! But..., the "number of a man" does not JUST mean "humanity." Humanity is one of the seven heads of the beast, and yet it is not even the head that has the wound by a Sword. That head is the ICRC's principle of neutrality, because Christians cannot remain neutral in ANY sense of the word. So, that passage from Rev 13 is referring TO A MAN IN PARTICULAR. The blasphemous man whose creation (the ICRC) was empowered/authorized by UN Resolution 666, was Jean Henri Dunant. If you can not accept that, then fine, I'll shake the dust from my feet and not look back.

Knowledge puffeth up. You surely know alot of history, but what is that if you only look 2000 years backward for miracles and truthes? Christ said that when summer is near the fig tree puts forth new tender branches. Those branches are what I am trying to share with you. Why don't you help yourself to a leaf instead of looking for an old unfruitful branch that might just break off and land on your head?

That reminds me, I have to prune my orchard tomorrow...

ND, So you can't deal with the truth about what I posted concerning Daniel 7. It has direct application to Revelation, especially to Revelation 13, though not in the way you think.

There is more than history involved. Understanding is involved. The beasts of Babylon, Persia, and Greece that are in Daniel have much to do with the times we live in, and the future. Do you know what that means?

You are so obsessed with the manifestation of a symptom, a side issue.
Do you know where six hundred, three score and six is found outside of Revelation, but still in the Bible? And how it applies to the present day application of Revelation 13? It is not what you think. Rev. 13:18 says, "Here is wisdom," put another way, "It is about wisdom." Is wisdom a man?

I know fully about the beast that was wounded by the sword and yet lived. It comes from Daniel 7. It does not refer to a man, especially not a dead man. Shake the dust off of your spirit and your brain. You have a lot to learn.

[NathanDavid]

Look, TyRockwell. I don't know enough about Daniel to agree nor disagree with some of the things that you are saying. As for the Mathew 13 verse about "first gather the tares..." Even that doesn't exclusively or necessarily sound like he means "gather the tares first," but simply to gather first before proceeding beyond the harvest, considering he said, "but also...". "But also" brings one back to potentially the same time frame, so who is to say that we don't all go at once from that verse alone?

Now, if you are denying that the ICRC is the seven headed beast, well, that is just more cemetary, excuse me, I mean seminary teaching. I could do as well in the books of the Seventh Day Adventists, for that matter. They have astounding understandings from the Revelation, but they miss key marks and pretend that history stopped growing when the Bible was written. If you deny that the ICRC is the seven headed beast and that the UN is the two horned beast that creates the image to the beast, and that the image of the beast is the UN Coalition, then I will assuredly KNOW that you are a false teacher. That much I CAN say, because that much I KNOW. All of the rhetoric from Daniel that you can throw at me is like taking a true and false test. If there are false test questions, then the test if unfair, because it is testing what I DON'T KNOW and not what I DO KNOW. What I do know is what I have stated.

In a very short while the latest revision of my book will replace its current existence on Freegroups.net. I just USPS'd a DVD of my book to the moderator of Freegroups.net.

[NathanDavid]

Ty,

I looked at the Greek on "here is wisdom." It means the same in Greek as it does in my KJV. You cannot go adding words to the book of Revelation. You need to read the last page of your Bible. You are doing the same as Billy Graham and retranslating your Bible falsely to fit your nterpretation. You DO NOT want to teach the Revelation wrong after having been corrected by a believer. Take God at his Word on that one.

The world will continue to grow worse and worse. Christ warned us of that. I do believe, however, that in Revelation 17:9 it is told to us that God will use the beasts to protect many of the elect during the tribulation. I have one Bible that has a verse reference that bounces back to Psalm 107:43 from Revelation 17:9. That is all covered in my book. That does not mean that the world is a better place, only that the vines are ripe enough that we are not bouncing off of each other quite so much to the point of suffering.

[TyRockwell]

Look, TyRockwell. I don't know enough about Daniel to agree nor disagree with some of the things that you are saying. As for the Mathew 13 verse about "first gather the tares..." Even that doesn't exclusively or necessarily sound like he means "gather the tares first," but simply to gather first before proceeding beyond the harvest, considering he said, "but also...". "But also" brings one back to potentially the same time frame, so who is to say that we don't all go at once from that verse alone?

Now, if you are denying that the ICRC is the seven headed beast, well, that is just more cemetary, excuse me, I mean seminary teaching. I could do as well in the books of the Seventh Day Adventists, for that matter. They have astounding understandings from the Revelation, but they miss key marks and pretend that history stopped growing when the Bible was written. If you deny that the ICRC is the seven headed beast and that the UN is the two horned beast that creates the image to the beast, and that the image of the beast is the UN Coalition, then I will assuredly KNOW that you are a false teacher. That much I CAN say, because that much I KNOW. All of the rhetoric from Daniel that you can throw at me is like taking a true and false test. If there are false test questions, then the test if unfair, because it is testing what I DON'T KNOW and not what I DO KNOW. What I do know is what I have stated.

In a very short while the latest revision of my book will replace its current existence on Freegroups.net. I just USPS'd a DVD of my book to the moderator of Freegroups.net.

You don't deal with the Bible. You can't deal with Rev. 13 without dealing with Dan. 7. The lion, the bear, and the leopard were allowed to live in Dan. 7. Then you see them again in Rev. 13.
You can't know about the deadly wound on the head of one of the beasts that was healed without getting it from Daniel 7.

[TyRockwell]

Ty,

I looked at the Greek on "here is wisdom." It means the same in Greek as it does in my KJV. You cannot go adding words to the book of Revelation. You need to read the last page of your Bible. You are doing the same as Billy Graham and retranslating your Bible falsely to fit your nterpretation. You DO NOT want to teach the Revelation wrong after having been corrected by a believer. Take God at his Word on that one.

The world will continue to grow worse and worse. Christ warned us of that. I do believe, however, that in Revelation 17:9 it is told to us that God will use the beasts to protect many of the elect during the tribulation. I have one Bible that has a verse reference that bounces back to Psalm 107:43 from Revelation 17:9. That is all covered in my book. That does not mean that the world is a better place, only that the vines are ripe enough that we are not bouncing off of each other quite so much to the point of suffering.

"This is wisdom: Let him who has understanding search for the number of the beast, for it is the number of a certain man, his number is 666." Rev. 13:18

The Revelation of Jesus Christ is the revealing of the word of God. The number refers to a certain man in scripture. I doubt you've ever searched the scriptures enough to find it. Go figure.

[NathanDavid]

Listen to me grasshopper:

The KJV says to "count the number of the beast." The word count from the Greek word "Phesphizo" means to "lay rocks inenumeration," such as to literally count. This, too, is documented in my book.

Count the number of the beast, for example, is like when the press was announcing and counting the numbered UN resolutions as they passed during the Persian Gulf War. The press, however, skipped over the six or seven resolutions that preceded and succeeded the 666 resolution, and also, obviously, skipped over the 666 resolution in particular They kept it hush hush..

In counting to the 666, as written in the Bible, one counts the resolutions, stops and reads the UN 666 Resolution, and then becomes aware of the UN as the second beast of Revelation 13. Then, in reading the resolution and what it did, that one becomes aware that the UN has officially named (or given authority to) the first beast in Revelation 13 in passing that very resolution.

TyRockwell, please do not continue persuing this issue with me, because you have convinced me that you are not led of the Spirit in this study. Your posts have turned into inflamatory personal attacks, and I am going to bring this matter to the attention of the moderator. Your lack of fruit is evidence in each of your recent posts that you are not guided in Holiness when you post. I have no business with you.

[Alan3838]

:fencing:

[TyRockwell]

Listen to me grasshopper:

The KJV says to "count the number of the beast." The word count from the Greek word "Phesphizo" means to "lay rocks inenumeration," such as to literally count. This, too, is documented in my book.

Count the number of the beast, for example, is like when the press was announcing and counting the numbered UN resolutions as they passed during the Persian Gulf War. The press, however, skipped over the six or seven resolutions that preceded and succeeded the 666 resolution, and also, obviously, skipped over the 666 resolution in particular They kept it hush hush..

In counting to the 666, as written in the Bible, one counts the resolutions, stops and reads the UN 666 Resolution, and then becomes aware of the UN as the second beast of Revelation 13. Then, in reading the resolution and what it did, that one becomes aware that the UN has officially named (or given authority to) the first beast in Revelation 13 in passing that very resolution.

TyRockwell, please do not continue persuing this issue with me, because you have convinced me that you are not led of the Spirit in this study. Your posts have turned into inflamatory personal attacks, and I am going to bring this matter to the attention of the moderator. Your lack of fruit is evidence in each of your recent posts that you are not guided in Holiness when you post. I have no business with you.

ND, You called me 'grasshopper,' and said I was not led by the Holy Spirit. You are arrogant, and you think too highly of yourself.

You do not know me, you just assume yourself 100% right on your interpretation. You said so in a previous post. In that same post you said that you were correcting errors and revising your 'book.'

You even said you don't know enough about Daniel to apply it to Revelation 13. This is a serious mistake. Daniel is a key to understanding the Revelation. Daniel was sealed, but Revelation was not. God did it that way to connect them. You must first have the unsealed interpretation of Daniel to correctly know Revelation. The same three beasts who were allowed to live in Daniel 7:11 are the same three beasts that make up the Revelation 13 beast. The word translated "calculate", and "reckon" in Revelation 13:18 also means "search for."

This is now the third time, at least, that I've told you that 666 is found elsewhere in the Bible, and it is connected with wisdom. You haven't tried to find it, or even asked where it is. It is in 1st Kings 10:14, and has to do with Solomon's wisdom. Now you need to know how that relates to a beast's wisdom in our time.

The fact that these three beasts were allowed to live gives insight into how the Rev. 13 beast had a wound that was apparently healed. The wound happened at the same time as when the Roman empire's beast (principality) was slain and its body was thrown into the blazing fire in Dan. 7:11).

All you've done is correctly guess that the present day beast is a world influencing government. But then you get off-based thinking it has to do with U.N. resolution 666 and the ICRC. Do you think Satan didn't set that up as a deception and a distraction?

[John Goddard]

This is now the third time, at least, that I've told you that 666 is found elsewhere in the Bible, and it is connected with wisdom.

Ezekiel 23:17 And the Babylonians came to her into the bed of love, and they defiled her with their whoredom, and she was polluted with them, and her mind was alienated from them.

Matthew 22:28 Therefore in the resurrection whose wife shall she be of the seven? for they all had her.

Matthew 22:21 They say unto him, Caesar's. Then saith he unto them, Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's; and unto God the things that are God's.

Matthew 24:24-25 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. Behold, I have told you before.

[NathanDavid]

There you go again, Ty, ranting about verses that I do not attempt to explain. in order to dodge the verses that you have quoted that I have shown from the original Greek that you teach false doctrines. Your posts, Ty, do not come from the written Word of God. They are as errant as Billy Graham's Bible translation, where he replaced the "image" to/the beast a "statue." All statues are images, but not all images are statues. Image means "yield," or more easily, something unto which to yield, eg. the coalition. It is hardly a mere statue. Statues (and even flags etc..) can be "part of" that image, but calling it a mere statue it is incomplete, and it puts the ministry in danger of being lost from the Book of Life. As I've stated elsewhere, I contacted Billy Graham's ministry with this, for which they said that they don't have time to look into it. Time is shorter than some people know..... much much shorter!

Ty, I did look some at Daniel 7, and I found no contradictions to my teachings, only verses that because of my weak background in world history I am right not to attempt. Actually, I saw that the verses describe that the speaker of the blasphemies is different from the rest of the kings, which further fits my description of Dunant, as he was not a politician but a banker who was honored for his influence by Communist Russia and socialist Germany and then seated by Switzerland.

I don't know if you have seen others of my posts on this web site, but I certainly have not denied that the Roman Empire is ALSO that first beast of Revelation 13. Revelation 17:8 describes the Roman Empire that "was" but "is not," but as the resurrected new form of world government, "yet is" the UN... (hence the shadow of death from Psalms 23).

Mr. Goddard, what was your main point in that last post?

[TyRockwell]

There you go again, Ty, ranting about verses that I do not attempt to explain.
That is the problem you are having; trying to deal with scripture out of context. The Rev. 13 beast, and the number 666, is not a 'stand alone' circumstance.

in order to dodge the verses that you have quoted that I have shown from the original Greek that you teach false doctrines. Your posts, Ty, do not come from the written Word of God.
My posts ARE the written word of God. You don't need UN Resolution 666 to know the word of God. You are dodging the word of God. It is not 'false doctrine' that I point out to you that the UN resolution is not the word of God, or that your leap to the ICRC is not the word of God. You can know that beasts are spirits, and not men just from understanding Daniel.

They are as errant as Billy Graham's Bible translation, where he replaced the "image" to/the beast a "statue." All statues are images, but not all images are statues. Image means "yield," or more easily, something unto which to yield, eg. the coalition. It is hardly a mere statue. Statues (and even flags etc..) can be "part of" that image, but calling it a mere statue it is incomplete, and it puts the ministry in danger of being lost from the Book of Life. As I've stated elsewhere, I contacted Billy Graham's ministry with this, for which they said that they don't have time to look into it. Time is shorter than some people know..... much much shorter!
I don't agree with Billy G. either. His idea comes from the old thinking from before Daniel was unsealed. The image in this case is not a statue, but it is a representation of government that is controlled in some cases, or influenced in some cases by demonic principalities, such as the Prince of Persia and the Prince of Greece in Daniel. It does not take a deep knowledge of history to read Daniel and see the succession of world empires.

Ty, I did look some at Daniel 7, and I found no contradictions to my teachings, only verses that because of my weak background in world history I am right not to attempt. Actually, I saw that the verses describe that the speaker of the blasphemies is different from the rest of the kings, which further fits my description of Dunant, as he was not a politician but a banker who was honored for his influence by Communist Russia and socialist Germany and then seated by Switzerland.
To come up with Dunant, you miss the time frame of the blasphemous king during the time of the Roman empire during Jesus' ministry and the New Testament times. Most interpreters of Daniel make this mistake, jumping from the known time of the Roman empire into the far distant future. The problem with that is it misses Jesus' and the church's role in the time that Rome's spiritual principality was slain in Daniel 7:11. ONLY the spirit-principalities of Babylon, Persia, and Greece survived, and are the entities that we have to deal with in this era of time.

I don't know if you have seen others of my posts on this web site, but I certainly have not denied that the Roman Empire is ALSO that first beast of Revelation 13. Revelation 17:8 describes the Roman Empire that "was" but "is not," but as the resurrected new form of world government, "yet is" the UN... (hence the shadow of death from Psalms 23).
The Roman empire is not the first beast of Rev. 13. As I explained over and over again, that beast was slain. Look at the three beasts in Rev. 13:2, the lion, the bear, and the leopard. The fourth terrifying and frightening beast of Daniel 7 is not mentioned! The Revelation 17:8 beast is the last great world empire, such as has not been since the Roman empire, but it is the eighth king, and was OF the seven heads. The Roman empire was the seventh head. The beast composed of Babylon, Persia, and Greece is the beast that was, and is not (at the time John wrote), and yet is. It is of the seven beasts but it is an eighth king, in our time, not Rome. Revelation 17:8-10

[NathanDavid]

Ty, you are the worst excuse for even an attempted false prophet that I have ever seen. I am familiar with your theology, having looked at that last post. You are a Seventh Day Adventist.

Last Saturday night I spent hours in one of my mother's old books that was written by the Seventh Day Adventists. She owns the book because her father was a First Advent preacher who believed that much of Seventh Day's teachings are correct, while yet correctly labeling the denomination a cult.

The Seventh Days do correctly make a few good points, they are yet a cult. They divide the Revelation so badly that there is no hope for most of the devout ones, because of deviant beliefs and lifelong frustrations. That makes sense, because the International Red Cross was founded by a Seventh Day Adventist. Their two biggest hangups, aside from books written by their false prophetess, and hating the Roman Catholic Church and preachings about humanism (which was the one thing that my family accepts of theirs). You people teach some verse totally backward from their correct meaning. That same pattern fits the behavior of the international politicians who REVERESED the Swiss Christian flag of their blasphemous founder and dedicated as the Red Cross flag in his honor.

Look, Ty, you are wasting your time with me. I have admonished you more than once, and I have explained the variant timing of the former and curent existence of the beast in telling you ro read Revelation 17:8, but you are blinded by your false doctrines that you won't even address the truth when handed to you.. You also will not receive correction. I'll pray for you, but if don't overcome your false doctrines and hard hearted desire to push them because of your worldy pride, then you'll be in the hands of the angels at the rapture - who will bind you for the lake of fire.

I'll not communicate with you again.

[TyRockwell]

Ty, you are the worst excuse for even an attempted false prophet that I have ever seen. I am familiar with your theology, having looked at that last post. You are a Seventh Day Adventist.

Last Saturday night I spent hours in one of my mother's old books that was written by the Seventh Day Adventists. She owns the book because her father was a First Advent preacher who believed that much of Seventh Day's teachings are correct, while yet correctly labeling the denomination a cult.

The Seventh Days do correctly make a few good points, they are yet a cult. They divide the Revelation so badly that there is no hope for most of the devout ones, because of deviant beliefs and lifelong frustrations. That makes sense, because the International Red Cross was founded by a Seventh Day Adventist. Their two biggest hangups, aside from books written by their false prophetess, and hating the Roman Catholic Church and preachings about humanism (which was the one thing that my family accepts of theirs). You people teach some verse totally backward from their correct meaning. That same pattern fits the behavior of the international politicians who REVERESED the Swiss Christian flag of their blasphemous founder and dedicated as the Red Cross flag in his honor.

Look, Ty, you are wasting your time with me. I have admonished you more than once, and I have explained the variant timing of the former and curent existence of the beast in telling you ro read Revelation 17:8, but you are blinded by your false doctrines that you won't even address the truth when handed to you.. You also will not receive correction. I'll pray for you, but if don't overcome your false doctrines and hard hearted desire to push them because of your worldy pride, then you'll be in the hands of the angels at the rapture - who will bind you for the lake of fire.

I'll not communicate with you again.

You are ignorant. I am NOT a 7th Day Adventist, nor do I believe in ANY aspect of humanism. That is too stupid for you to say such a thing, but you did. You owe me an apology.

The very idea that you can correct me is preposterous. You do not deal with scripture. The UN resolution you hang your whole premise on is not scripture, and it is in no way alluded to in scripture.

You are an amateur. Whoever it was that told you that you were an authority on Revelation didn't know squat about the subject. You even admitted that you don't understand the book of Daniel, from which much of the imagery of Revelation is derived; beasts, kings, Babylon, Persia, Greece, and more from Daniel is used in the symbolism of Revelation. You certainly don't have a clue about Revelation, only a weird unbiblical obssession with Dunant and the Red Cross, and UN Resolution 666.

You have no valid position from which to talk down to me. Go sell your ideas to conspiracy theory fruitcakes.

[NathanDavid]

Okay, Ty... this is the last time that I will address you. That I accidentally labeled you a Seventh Day, I am sorry. I apologize to them. That I see you as a false teacher, I am no sorry, unless you accept that the ICRC is the first beast, and the other elements that I have shared with you.

I thought you were too cute, like a small child crying to mommy, when you said, "You called me a grasshopper!" I was being funny, like on that old Kung Fu show, where David Caradine's karate master would say, "Listen to me grasshopper...."

You need to read before going off into frenzies. I didn't say anything about you being a humanist. I said that Seventh Day's go off on humanism. Maybe I didn't make myself clear, but Seventh Day's preach the whole nine yards about man putting himself above God, and that the church's moving the Sabbath to the 1st of the week was falling into the Roman Catholics' snare, as man put his will above God's law, etc... That is the point that I like about the Seventh Days, so sure, I'll apologize to you for thinking that you had something worthy to offer me...

Still, much of your belief appears to be closely tuned in with much of the Seventh Days. For example, they believe that the head that was wounded as unto death was rebuke for the Roman Church/Empire. Something you wrote sounded about like that. That is the basis for the Seventh Day's entire doctrine... before their false prophetess wrote that stack of books.

I do not accept the Seventh Day's teaching about the Sabbath day. The law is dead to the works of Christ. Paul said plenty on that. Were we to start up with the old Jewish traditions and laws, us being Gentiles, God would not have left us in the dark about it. It would have been instructed as clear to us as the Ten Commandments were given to Moses. We were instructed only to obstain from things strangled and from blood, and those ordinances are not even in the Ten Commandments. That instruction serves well to warn us of the fruit of the Seventh Day's false teaching, which ultimately led to a Seventh Day becoming the false prophet of the anti-Christ.

I am not going to continue in this thread. I prefer MetalMark's thread on the seven year tribulation.

[TyRockwell]

Okay, Ty... this is the last time that I will address you. That I accidentally labeled you a Seventh Day, I am sorry. I apologize to them. That I see you as a false teacher, I am no sorry, unless you accept that the ICRC is the first beast, and the other elements that I have shared with you.
What you teach is false and unbiblical.

Still, much of your belief appears to be closely tuned in with much of the Seventh Days. For example, they believe that the head that was wounded as unto death was rebuke for the Roman Church/Empire. Something you wrote sounded about like that.

This is the problem people like you have who don't understand Daniel. Rev. 7:11-13 has nothing to do with rebuke or the Church.

It has to do with the death of a demonic principality. Do you think the prince of Persia in Daniel was the son of the king of Persia? No, it was a demonic spirit, called a principality by Paul, that was influencing Persia.

Do you think the prince of Greece in Daniel was the son of a king of Greece? It was a demonic spirit, called a principality by Paul, that was influencing Greece.

Daniel 7 shows you that each of the empires had just that kind of demonic spirit principality.
The principality of the Roman empire was slain, Dan. 7:11, before the ascension of Jesus, Dan. 7:13, by the decree of heaven's highest court.

The principality of Rome has nothing to do with the 'Roman Church.' It did have consequences for the earthly empire of Rome. It fell, and no longer exists, and will not exist again.

The three principalities that were not slain in Daniel 7:12 are the three-part beast that you see in Rev. 13:2 that is present in our time. We are to deal with them, just as Jesus dealt with the principality of Rome. Rome has nothing to do with Rev. 13. The head that was wounded had to do with the survival of the beasts (principalities) of Babylon, Persia, and Greece.

[TyRockwell]

I meant to say Daniel 7:11-13 in that first sentence above.

[thomas57]

Concerning St. Malachy, I found this on Wikipedia:
-----------------------------------------
During the time of Pope Innocent II (1130-1143), the Archbishop of Armagh (St. Malachy of Ireland) predicted that there would be 112 additional popes after Pope Innocent.

Pope Benedict XVI is #111.
Malachy referred to #112 as Petrus Romanus (Peter the Roman).

"During the final persecution of the Holy Roman Church, the seat will be occupied by Peter the Roman,
who will feed his sheep in many tribulations;
and when these things are finished, the seven-hilled city will be destroyed,
and the formidable Judge will judge his people."
-------------
reference:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prophecy_of_the_Popes

[ravenlorre]

hmm......I think you might want to prepare your soul rather then mock - the vision of Fatima predicts the same thing.