Where Were the FOUNTAINS OF THE GREAT DEEP

[jordanriver]

Do you think that refers to water under the surface of Earth, or, water from Deep Space. Could this be water that was already created and held in storage somewhere, (the Oort Cloud perhaps?).

thoughts?

JR

[jordanriver]

http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/announcement.php?f=81

JR

I didn't see any prohibitions against scrutiny.

JR

[Abelard]

Do you think that refers to water under the surface of Earth, or, water from Deep Space. Could this be water that was already created and held in storage somewhere, (the Oort Cloud perhaps?).

thoughts?

JR

Gen 7:11 - The flood came from both the rain and from underground springs.

Gen 8:2 - Shows a reversal of the process.

One popular folk belief is that before the flood it didn't rain at all and that everything was watered by springs. The flood was supposed to be first rain, and represented a major environmental change which resulted in the new, shorter life spans compared to Noah and his predecessors.

[Messor Mortis]

you might want to look into hydroplate theory by some creationists (walt brown) here (http://www.creationscience.com/onlinebook/HydroplateOverview6.html#wp10156453)

[runtmc2jc]

Great question.... I've always taken it to mean subterranean waters....

but another related question is this: What agent caused 40 days and nights of non-stop rain, as well as what caused the fountains of the great deep to be "broken up" ??? It sounds like some external cosmic force was applied to the globe... meteor ???......comet ??? The language of Gen 6 doesn't seem to be talking about some small to medium scale local event...

[KBertsche]

Do you think that refers to water under the surface of Earth, or, water from Deep Space. Could this be water that was already created and held in storage somewhere, (the Oort Cloud perhaps?).

thoughts?

JR
Here's where the "ancient near eastern cosmology" perspective seems helpful. The ancients believed that there was water below the earth and also water up above, held up by the solid, clear dome of the "firmament." The "fountains of the great deep" would be the waters from below, and the "floodgates" or "windows" of heaven allowed water to come through the firmament.

Perhaps this reflects what the biblical authors actually believed themselves, or perhaps it only reflects the etymology of the language that they had available to use.

[franktalk]

Water deep in the earth is more common than thought.

http://hypertextbook.com/facts/2003/AdamCassino.shtml

"Some interesting things have been discovered within the earth's crust, as this drill made its way approximately halfway through the earth's crust at that point, exposing rocks 2.7 billion years old on a 4.6 billion year old planet. One interesting thing found along the way was a fractured area of rock 3 to 6 miles beneath the surface that had been thoroughly saturated with water. This occurrence has never been observed anywhere. This most likely means that water, which was part of the chemical composition of the rock minerals, had been forced out of the crystals and could not ascend due to an overlying cap of impermeable rock."

And was more common before the flood. Many believe (so do I) that the flood was the result of a couple of supernatural events but one was to crack the earth to release the water. The ancient fissures are vertical, plate tectonics came later.

[greentwiga]

The Sumerians used the term floodgates of heaven to refer to the locks controlled by the priests. They controlled the river. The floodgates opening would refer to the river flooding. Similarly, In the island of Dilmun/Bahrain, there are a large number of springs that empty into the Persian Gulf. Some are accessible at low tide. From that, to them, the sea would rise from the fountains of the deep. Yes, an asteroid strike could cause a tsunami surge/sea rise. There is even an astroblem in the area that is dated to near 3,000 BC. A more likely explanation is the 40 days of rain caused a massive landslide somewhere along the shore of Iran triggering a Tsunami. This would be the floodgates of the deep opening. Remember, the terms were ones that speaker would use so the listeners would understand exactly what he meant. Noah related what he saw, he wouldn't necessarily have known why it happened.

[BrunoMars]

That is happened cause it was said to be happened . And who said it GOD said it . . . !!!

[OmniSkeptical]

Here's where the "ancient near eastern cosmology" perspective seems helpful. The ancients believed that there was water below the earth and also water up above, held up by the solid, clear dome of the "firmament." The "fountains of the great deep" would be the waters from below, and the "floodgates" or "windows" of heaven allowed water to come through the firmament.

Perhaps this reflects what the biblical authors actually believed themselves, or perhaps it only reflects the etymology of the language that they had available to use.Neither, evidently the hebrew which is translated heaven is not sky. It is elevated solid rock, and singular, and over the soil. A gyser was likely, and the reminents of it are unlikely, when considering the teraforming and the rockbreaking, the God did in the days of Job which is confused with the days of Peleg. But we can conclude the atmosphere was high pressure and capable of a several tweaks.

[OmniSkeptical]

The Sumerians ..They didn't exist. The ruins are early Indian and early Persian. And the writing of the cooked clay tablets are a fraud. It already looks suspicious to me, and I haven't done much background research on the archeology. But that doesn't mean there aren't alot of deluded people who don't vouch for their authenticity. Fraud in archeology is much more common than people suspect.

[KBertsche]

Here's where the "ancient near eastern cosmology" perspective seems helpful. The ancients believed that there was water below the earth and also water up above, held up by the solid, clear dome of the "firmament." The "fountains of the great deep" would be the waters from below, and the "floodgates" or "windows" of heaven allowed water to come through the firmament.

Perhaps this reflects what the biblical authors actually believed themselves, or perhaps it only reflects the etymology of the language that they had available to use.
Neither, evidently the hebrew which is translated heaven is not sky. It is elevated solid rock, and singular, and over the soil. A gyser was likely, and the reminents of it are unlikely, when considering the teraforming and the rockbreaking, the God did in the days of Job which is confused with the days of Peleg. But we can conclude the atmosphere was high pressure and capable of a several tweaks.
I'm sorry, but I can make no sense of your reply.

First, how does the translation of "heaven" affect the meaning of the "fountains of the deep?" I don't see the connection.

Second, how is it "evident" that the translation of "heavens" (shemayim) is not "sky?" This seems to me to be a fine translation of the word.

Third, how in the world do you get this to mean "elevated solid rock?" Please show your reasons and evidence for this bizarre claim.

Fourth, "heavens" is NEVER singular in the Old Testament. It only appears in one form, shemayim. This is usually called a "plural," but the grammatical form is actually a "dual."

Fifth, how in the world can we "conclude" the things that you say about earth's atmosphere? What is your evidence for these claims?

[OmniSkeptical]

Third, how in the world do you get this to mean "elevated solid rock?" Please show your reasons and evidence for this bizarre claim.The greek word ουρανος which is equivalent comes in both singular and plural form. It is unlikely Jesus was talking about a plural as in sky/skies when he was talking to nicodemus, since he uses the greek article for all 3 uses of ουρανος in the singular. This word is used also in the plural in the NT, when refering to where the early church would be transfered or transplaced to the kingdom of God, just as Enoch was. Whether he was in or on top of a peak makes no difference, because he was claiming to have endured a barren region without food or water for 40 cycles. John 3:13-14.

Fourth, "heavens" is NEVER singular in the Old Testament. It only appears in one form, shemayim. This same is not so in the new testament.

Fifth, how in the world can we "conclude" the things that you say about earth's atmosphere? What is your evidence for these claims?Large insects need a high pressure atmosphere.

[KBertsche]

The greek word ουρανος which is equivalent comes in both singular and plural form. It is unlikely Jesus was talking about a plural as in sky/skies when he was talking to nicodemus, since he uses the greek article for all 3 uses of ουρανος in the singular. This word is used also in the plural in the NT, when refering to where the early church would be transfered or transplaced to the kingdom of God, just as Enoch was. Whether he was in or on top of a peak makes no difference, because he was claiming to have endured a barren region without food or water for 40 cycles. John 3:13-14.
Completely irrelevant. We are talking about the meaning of the phrase "fountains of the great deep" from Genesis, which was written in Hebrew. What in the world does a New Testament usage of "heaven" have to do with this? (Answer: nothing)


Large insects need a high pressure atmosphere.
What in the world are you talking about? Large insects survive just fine at one atmosphere, otherwise they wouldn't be alive today. And again this has absolutely nothing to do with the question of the OP.

I have no idea what sort of nonsense you are trying to promote or for what reason. But it seems to be completely off-topic. Please either relate your comments to the thread topic (the fountains of the great deep) or start a new thread.

[OmniSkeptical]

Completely irrelevant. We are talking about the meaning of the phrase "fountains of the great deep" from Genesis, which was written in Hebrew. What in the world does a New Testament usage of "heaven" have to do with this? (Answer: nothing)You introduced the famous forgery called sumerain civilization, not me. The waters came from the peaks (aka the heavens), if recall correctly.


What in the world are you talking about? Large insects survive just fine at one atmosphere, ... Very large insects in a warmer, watery, more pressured enviroment then.

[KBertsche]

Completely irrelevant. We are talking about the meaning of the phrase "fountains of the great deep" from Genesis, which was written in Hebrew. What in the world does a New Testament usage of "heaven" have to do with this? (Answer: nothing)You introduced the famous forgery called sumerain civilization, not me. The waters came from the peaks (aka the heavens), if recall correctly.
I did not mention the Sumerians; you are confusing me with "greentwiga." And your denial of historical civilizations is both loony and off-topic. If you want to discuss this, do so somewhere else.



What in the world are you talking about? Large insects survive just fine at one atmosphere, ...Very large insects in a warmer, watery, more pressured enviroment then.
Still completely nonsensical and off-topic.

Do you have anything of interest related to the topic at hand, which is the FOUNTAINS OF THE GREAT DEEP?

[OmniSkeptical]

In 8141 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=H8141&t=KJV) the six 8337 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=H8337&t=KJV) hundredth 3967 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=H3967&t=KJV) year 8141 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=H8141&t=KJV) of Noah's 5146 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=H5146&t=KJV) life 2416 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=H2416&t=KJV), in the second 8145 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=H8145&t=KJV) month 2320 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=H2320&t=KJV), the seventeenth 7651 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=H7651&t=KJV) 6240 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=H6240&t=KJV) day 3117 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=H3117&t=KJV) of the month 2320 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=H2320&t=KJV), the same 2088 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=H2088&t=KJV) day 3117 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=H3117&t=KJV) were all the fountains 4599 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=H4599&t=KJV) of the great 7227 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=H7227&t=KJV) deep 8415 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=H8415&t=KJV) broken up 1234 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=H1234&t=KJV), and the "windows 699 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=H699&t=KJV) of heaven" 8064 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=H8064&t=KJV) were opened 6605 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=H6605&t=KJV)"