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The Atheist's Infidelitatis.

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  • The Atheist's Infidelitatis.

    There are many differing Churches and Christians, but if asked for the basis of their faith or belief, most Christians might offer their Creed.

    And so my question is asking atheists:- What is the basis for your unbelief, or atheism?

    In a recent discussion elsewhere, atheists found themselves to be widely disagreeing about their 'Infidelitatis' or 'Unbelief'.
    There were as many different definitions as there were atheists in that conversation. I made a list of their differing opinions, but I don't think that it would be helpful to paste them all down here...... or would it?

    And so, atheists, please could you define your unbelief?

    Thankyou.......

  • #2
    Originally posted by eider View Post
    There are many differing Churches and Christians, but if asked for the basis of their faith or belief, most Christians might offer their Creed.

    And so my question is asking atheists:- What is the basis for your unbelief, or atheism?
    That none of the religions I have encountered are true, and none of the gods they describe exist.
    Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.

    MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
    MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.

    seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Roy View Post
      That none of the religions I have encountered are true, and none of the gods they describe exist.
      Thankyou for your reply.
      So, basically you include all Deities in your list? That's fine, but many Deists class themselves as atheists.
      Professor Richard Dawkins (in his book 'the God delusion' reportedly has written that 'atheism is like sexed up PanTheism' which surprises me.... I have not read the book, btw.
      And so you include religions in your 'unbelief'.... OK, but many atheists don't bother to include that word, 'religions', because it seems to have a wider meaning these days, in as much as it can mean any undertaking followed with devotion, etc as in 'consumerism is the new religion' etc.
      I notice that you did not include entities, intangibles and beliefs such as ghosts, angels, supernaturals etc in your definition...... would you?

      But all in all, yours is one of the most concise defs I've read so far. Some Atheists need at least a page! :)

      Thankyou again

      Comment


      • #4
        That none of the philosophies, accounts, etc. can establish "this can only happen if..."
        I'm not here anymore.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Carrikature View Post
          That none of the philosophies, accounts, etc. can establish "this can only happen if..."
          Uh what now? I don't get it.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Leonhard View Post
            Uh what now? I don't get it.
            You can't prove any event must have a supernatural cause. There are always plausible* alternatives up to and including inaccurate retelling. None of the philosophical arguments can be proven as sound. You can develop a set of axioms which give rise to belief in the supernatural, but those axioms cannot be proven on their own merit. In short, "this can only have been God" is never a true statement.



            *The determination of plausibility itself is subjective.
            I'm not here anymore.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Carrikature View Post
              That none of the philosophies, accounts, etc. can establish "this can only happen if..."
              Thankyou for your reply....
              Let me see if I've got this right........ You don't believe that the reason for the initiation of everything can be a God or Gods...... yes?
              Is that right?
              On the side.... do you deny the existence of angels, ghosts, spirits etc as well?

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Carrikature View Post
                You can't prove any event must have a supernatural cause. There are always plausible* alternatives up to and including inaccurate retelling. None of the philosophical arguments can be proven as sound. You can develop a set of axioms which give rise to belief in the supernatural, but those axioms cannot be proven on their own merit. In short, "this can only have been God" is never a true statement.

                *The determination of plausibility itself is subjective.
                Well Carrikature I presented an experience about a year or so ago, witnessed by me and another person, that had no natural explanation. And until there is a logical natural explanation I don't see why I can not conclude that "this can only have been God."
                Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by eider View Post
                  There are many differing Churches and Christians, but if asked for the basis of their faith or belief, most Christians might offer their Creed.

                  And so my question is asking atheists:- What is the basis for your unbelief, or atheism?
                  There's no one basis for my unbelief, but rather an endlessly growing list of issues that can be easily resolved by abandoning the fundamental assumptions of theism, from the problem of evil to the contingent nature of our individual existences, to the history and substance of humanity's religious beliefs, to our ephemeral position as a species at the tail end of what's possible in this universe.

                  I can't imagine a parent who would not be appalled by the worship of their children. No, we want our children to learn to move on without us. That's what makes us happy. So if there is a God, I'd imagine he loves atheists best.

                  If there is a heaven, I'm betting sycophants need not apply.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by eider View Post
                    And so, atheists, please could you define your unbelief?
                    An atheist is one who lacks the conviction that God as an independent being exists. Nearly everyone is atheist in the sense that they are unconvinced of the existence of other people’s Gods. Religious people are convinced that their God is the only real God.
                    “I think God, in creating man, somewhat overestimated his ability.” ― Oscar Wilde
                    “And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that He would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence” ― Bertrand Russell
                    “not all there” - you know who you are

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by eider View Post
                      Thankyou for your reply....
                      Let me see if I've got this right........ You don't believe that the reason for the initiation of everything can be a God or Gods...... yes?
                      Is that right?
                      You're close. I think the initiation of everything *could* be a god of some sort. I don't think it's been shown that it necessarily must be a god of some sort. I need a little more than 'could be'.


                      Originally posted by eider View Post
                      On the side.... do you deny the existence of angels, ghosts, spirits etc as well?
                      I think all supernatural occurrences suffer from the same problem, so yes.
                      I'm not here anymore.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Carrikature View Post
                        I think all supernatural occurrences suffer from the same problem, so yes.
                        I think ‘denial’ risks reversing the burden of proof when, in fact, the positive evidence for the proposition that supernatural entities exist is entirely lacking.
                        “I think God, in creating man, somewhat overestimated his ability.” ― Oscar Wilde
                        “And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that He would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence” ― Bertrand Russell
                        “not all there” - you know who you are

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Another way to understand atheism is that God is the believers’ alter ego and an atheist is one who understands the self deception. The diversity of religious experience that we witness is consistent with this view.

                          It is debatable whether the self deception has any merit but it may well be that it is helpful in certain stressful circumstances. I suppose that at those times, even an atheist might resort to the use of his God (bring Him out of retirement).
                          “I think God, in creating man, somewhat overestimated his ability.” ― Oscar Wilde
                          “And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that He would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence” ― Bertrand Russell
                          “not all there” - you know who you are

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by eider View Post
                            Thankyou for your reply....
                            Let me see if I've got this right........ You don't believe that the reason for the initiation of everything can be a God or Gods...... yes?
                            Is that right?
                            On the side.... do you deny the existence of angels, ghosts, spirits etc as well?
                            What he is really saying is no one can prove that God has done anything.
                            Micah 6:8 He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the LORD require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by firstfloor View Post
                              I think ‘denial’ risks reversing the burden of proof when, in fact, the positive evidence for the proposition that supernatural entities exist is entirely lacking.
                              Exactly what sort of evidence would you imagine from a God who is not part of the universe, and might better be seen as the author than the mechanic?
                              Micah 6:8 He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the LORD require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?

                              Comment

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