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View Full Version : Salvation History, a Deeper Theological Analysis


spauline
August 21st 2007, 03:09 AM
OK, you can take all five of the following posts of mine and correlate them:

The Seven Heads and Seven Days (http://blog.360.yahoo.com/blog-7HJjW9kieKlaV2usQKhFiwefjXc-?cq=1&p=108)

Final Jewish Conversion, a hypothesis (http://blog.360.yahoo.com/blog-7HJjW9kieKlaV2usQKhFiwefjXc-?cq=1&p=116) and an Additional Reflection (http://blog.360.yahoo.com/blog-7HJjW9kieKlaV2usQKhFiwefjXc-?cq=1&p=97)

False Prophet Prelude (http://blog.360.yahoo.com/blog-7HJjW9kieKlaV2usQKhFiwefjXc-?cq=1&p=91)

The False Prophet as anti-Sacramentalism, part I (http://blog.360.yahoo.com/blog-7HJjW9kieKlaV2usQKhFiwefjXc-?cq=1&p=122)

and combine them for interesting and profound meaning (IMHO !):

Here goes, from the first article about the beast and days of creation, there are presumably eight total stages of salvation history, 5 in the OT, and 3 in the NT.

From the article on the Jewish Conversion hypothesis, we see that the 3 stages of the NT are really just the intrinsically necessary fulfillment of the 3 stages of the Jews of the OT, both of these being the three-stage way of the saint in Catholic spirituality (purgative, illuminative, and unitive stages), which, according to the hypothesis, are themselves simply a microcosmic example of what the General People of God must pass through in the general journey of a major Salvific Covenant.

This leaves the very first 2 stages of salvation history unexplained. Are they then arbitrary? By no means! The solution to these stages, and of the whole collection of stages is filled in by the false prophet! Indeed, Augustine, in the quote of the second essay, hints at the two preliminary stages as having a special preeminence:

Of these ages the first is from the beginning of the human race, that is, from Adam, who was the first man that was made, down to Noah, who constructed the ark at the time of the flood. Then the second extends from that period on to Abraham, who was called the father indeed of all nations which should follow the example of his faith, but who at the same time in the way of natural descent from his own flesh was the father of the destined people of the Jews; which people, previous to the entrance of the Gentiles into the Christian faith, was the one people among all the nations of all lands that worshipped the one true God: from which people also Christ the Saviour was decreed to come according to the flesh. For these turning-points of those two ages occupy an eminent place in the ancient books.

The first two ages then, are precisely correllated to the two primary lies of the dragon that are typified in the false prophet's two anti-sacramental horns.

Simply look at the history:

In the first great age of sin, we have the Fall and near total wickedness of the pre-Flood humanity. That is, in this first great age, humanity is mainly buying into the first lie of the dragon, which, as we have seen, is the anti-thesis of Baptism: You do not need to believe in God nor obey him ("wickedness").

In the second great age, Babel, it is appropriately the second primary lie of the serpent that is believed, "You shall be like gods", that is, the antithesis of Marriage. More specifically, whereas in marriage, we have the ultimate calling of our existence manifested-- to live in total, intimate union, penetration, gift and reception of love, of intellect and will, forever, that is, that God has made the Creation, in marriage and many other ways, to image to us the sacramental mysteries of faith and love and meaning--, in contrast, in the antithesis of marriage, the Creation is "taken" from the "tree of life", thereby divorcing it from its life-giving, teaching, loving catechesis, and made to become a superificial end in and of itself. Hence, "let us build a Tower to heaven", that is, the Creation alone can bring us ultimate fulfillment. It does not have sacramental meaning of love and spiritual mystery, it is not a means to a spiritual end, but an end in and of itself, physically. Hence, the lie of secular and materialistic messianism.

And so the first two ages of salvation history indeed have preeminence, seeing as they form the basic essence of ALL iniquity in human history, these same two lies being the essence of all subsequent stages of sin in the Two great Covenants that follow for the People of Old and New, respectively.

eschaton
August 21st 2007, 12:33 PM
I think it would be hard for protestants to discuss this subject since the RC concept of salvation is substantially different.

spauline
August 21st 2007, 12:53 PM
I think it would be hard for protestants to discuss this subject since the RC concept of salvation is substantially different.


I agree that it would be difficult, precisely because of this issue. And yet herein is another opportunity for ecumenical dialogue. Sickness in one part of the body can infect other areas, because the truths of faith, like the human organism, are multi-dependent, inter-connected. And so I would find it no coincidence that Fundamentalists will take a futurist "the-prophetic time clock stops ticking for 2000 years" mentality, for for the common evangelical, salvation is a once and done deal. You accept Jesus, and after that, you have it made. You are saved once an that's it. Whereas in Catholicism, salvation is a PROCESS. hence, the way of the saint, three stages, three darknesses followed by three lights, etc.:

I WAS saved, I am now BEING saved, and I HOPE to be saved. Not, I was saved once and that's it.

Zguy28
August 21st 2007, 02:44 PM
I WAS saved, I am now BEING saved, and I HOPE to be saved. Not, I was saved once and that's it.That's a good point. Although, protestants, or at least Baptists whom I can speak for, believe also in Justification (I was saved), Santification (I am being saved), and Glorification (I will be saved). Whereas the RCC seems to have a problem with its members approaching sanctification in a legalistic manner, Baptists & Evangelicals seem to swing the other way on the pendulum, in practice they tend to think everything is okay as long as your justified. This is major problem currently in the evangelical church, one that I am working to remedy in my congregation through discipleship. Most Christians have no idea what Kenosis or Missio Dei even mean, let alone how to live them.

eschaton
August 22nd 2007, 12:33 PM
Scottt,

The salvation history concept seems similar to the dispensational idea that God deals differently with man in different dispensations. Is that correct?

spauline
August 22nd 2007, 02:22 PM
Scottt,

The salvation history concept seems similar to the dispensational idea that God deals differently with man in different dispensations. Is that correct?


No, that's not true for Catholicism. In Catholicism, God has always used the same approach to man in terms of principles, which can be summed up in this: in any age, God expects each individual man to seek out religious and moral truth as their ultimate goal and to seek out help from God and try with that help to do their best to obey what they believe to the best of their knowledge.

What I saying is simply that there is a spiritual psychology to Salvation History. More specifically, it seems that the seven cardinal sins would always have to exist as they are regardless of what the physical appearance of the world would be. IOW, God would ALWAYS create man so that He is sexual and make sex pleasurable (to reveal the Trinity and encourage man to be fruitful), He would ALWAYS create man so that he required physical sustenance (in order to manifest greater reality: man does not live by bread alone, but by spiritual nourishment), He would ALWAYS create it so that time passes in weeks and days, each day first darkness then light, so as to manifest the lesson of "rest", successsion of spiritual stages, etc.

Hence, given the cardinal sins that flow from these (lust, gluttony, sloth), human behavior is largely predictable given his fallen nature, hence, the eight stages of history are a necessary spiritual blueprint for the way that Salvation history HAS to go: that is, there will inevitably be the patriarch stages (the first modeling anti-Baptism, the second, anti-Marriage), followed by the intrinsically necessary "three stage way of the saint" for the Prefiguring People, followed by the necessary fulfillment of these three stages for the New People.

OH, and all this depending on the fact that God, through His Infinite foreknowledge, knows precisely HOW to respond to the successive stages of sin so that, in the end, the greatest spritual good is wrought in human history. From this perspecitive, this could be at least a possible chunk of the "mystery of inquity", that is, the apocalyptic questions involve understanding the psychology and mystery of God's Plan, why God does what He does in the greater spiritual picture, and why humanity becomes incurable spirutally in the final stage of darkness, that is, the eighth.

eschaton
August 23rd 2007, 01:58 AM
Can you define salvation history for me? I found this definition through Google.

Salvation History: The history of the salvation of the human race, beginning with God's promise of a Redeemer (Genesis 3) and continuing to the end of the apostolic age, or the death of the Apostle St. John.

I still can't say I know what it means. Can you explain it to me? What does it mean the salvation of the human race? Does that mean the entire human race will be saved?

Zguy28
August 24th 2007, 10:24 AM
Can you define salvation history for me? I found this definition through Google.

Salvation History: The history of the salvation of the human race, beginning with God's promise of a Redeemer (Genesis 3) and continuing to the end of the apostolic age, or the death of the Apostle St. John.

I still can't say I know what it means. Can you explain it to me? What does it mean the salvation of the human race? Does that mean the entire human race will be saved?I always thought Salvation History was just the specific history of Israel and the church and God's dealings with them?

I also thought it was part of the Doctrine of Revelation, specifically Special Revelation which is salvific.

That's my take.

eschaton
August 24th 2007, 11:57 AM
You may be right, but when I search the web for the subject all the sites that come up are Roman Catholic.

spauline
August 24th 2007, 08:53 PM
eschaton, I liken salvation history to the process whereby, from the Fall to the very end, God progressively redeems humanity. It is truly a spiritual process, occuring in stages if you will. And it appears to be a process like the days of the week: first darkness, then light, then darkness, then light. In other words, a constant dialogue between sin and grace. First sin speaks (darkness), then the light speaks (a great Redemptive action by God). In a very true sense, there is meaning and purpose to it. There is truly a linear progression in these stages ,such that with each successive stage of light, God has drawn an even greater good in history and its sins than existed in the previous stage of light. But, behold, the process of alternation does not continue forever. Eventually a point is crossed in which darkness is back, but back to stay, incabaple of being brought back into the light. It is, I believe, and presumably the Church's view in general, this mystery that lies in the heart of the "mystery of iniquity." But since this is a process, somehow the Divine Revelation of Scripture and Tradition must already provide the keys of unlocking it. The unlocking will attained through Catholicism's doctrinal development, such that, at some point prior to the literal Second Coming, the Catholic Church shall come to understand this Plan in full, to understand how and when humanity will become incurable spiritually. And this, guided by the Holy Spirit, as well as reflections on the history behind them.

BTW, Church in general does not believe everyone will be saved. General, although as of yet undefined, teaching is that some persons will be lost eternally. We hope as few as possible, but the suggestions of revelation do not seem to be too positive: "and few there be that find it."

I wish you blessings, my brother eschaton.