Forest of Revelation

[eschaton]

There’s a lot to be gained by looking at the “trees” or details of scripture, but I think there’s also a lot to be gained by looking at the “forest” or overall structure of Revelation as well. The relation between chapter 15 and the temple in heaven to the seven judgments upon earth in chapter 16 has been pointed out. This is a pattern repeated several times in Revelation. There is an unnumbered scene of a presence in or from heaven exemplified by the temple, and that is offset by a set of judgments upon the earth.


Chapter 1: The angel of the Lord and the golden candlesticks. The candlesticks are similar to the candelabra and can be seen as a temple symbol.
Chapters 2&3: The seven churches.

Chapters 4-5: The temple in heaven
Chapter 6-7: The seven seals opened

Chapter 8:2-8:6: The trumpet angels before God in heaven
Chapter 8:7-ch 11: The seven trumpets

Chapter 12:1-2: The scene in heaven
Chapters 12:3-ch 13: The Satanic beasts and judgments on earth

Chapter 14:1-5: The Lamb on Mt. Sion with the 144,000
Chapter 14:6-20: The six angels with judgments

Chapter 15: The temple in heaven
Chapter 16: The seven bowl judgments

Chapter 17-22: The 7 explanations and closing


We have six sections where we have heavenly temple type symbols followed by the judgments upon earth that are numbered except in chapters 12 and 13. In chapter 14 numbering is inferred by the third angel (14:9).

The symbols in the heavenly sections are mostly those of the interior of the temple. The judgments show mostly those earthly symbols outside the temple, earth (courtyard), sea (brass basin), fire and smoke (brass altar), etc.

The temple is in many ways symbolic of the Garden of Eden, and the number seven is symbolic of the creation week. Eden and the creation week are a chiastic structure, and some ECF believed that the creation week was a symbolic representation of the Gospel.

So what does all this mean?

Jesus claimed that the scriptures were about Him (John 5:39). The Revelation is that of Jesus Christ (Rev 1:1). The structure of Revelation and message shows an overall design and purpose in scripture from beginning to end. That is what God is supposed to be about, design, purpose and meaning as opposed to random meaninglessness. God is revealed by a book written over millennia by many different men, but with one design and purpose, that of the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Examining the details is good, but I think it’s too easy to get distracted from the true message.

[Ted]

I would propose that this is one of those details that adds a little, but doesn't help a lot. It emphasizes that the temple is central. But what is the temple?

The temple on earth is a type of the temple in heaven. Its services, festivals, furnishings and priesthood are all types. They all point forward. For example, the seven Trumpets are the antitype of the Feast of Trumpets, which was the warning of judgment to come on the Day of Atonement.

I could go on at length, but I'd end up retyping my book (available at http://www.bibleonly.org/press/Conclusion/index.html). I have an appendix that shows the literary structure of the book. That structure indeed carries a huge theological message. And it's simple: COVENANT.

Ted

[eschaton]

Hi Ted,

I took this outline from your site.

A- Prolog -- 1:1-8
B -- 7 Churches -- 1:9-3:22
C ---- Seals and saints -- 4:1-8:5
D ------ Warning of judgment -- 8:2, 6-11:19
E --------- Conflict over worship -- 12:1-14:20
D’------ Execution of judgment -- 15:1-18:24
C’----- “Sealing” of the wicked -- 19:1-20:15
B’--- Victorious church -- 21:1-22:5
A’- Epilog -- 22:6-21

http://www.bibleonly.org/proph/rev/structure.html

I don't understand the logic in saying the trumpets are only warnings and seals and saints are only seals and saints. To me these things are a recapitulation in the literary sense. The text speaks as though the actions are executed rather than contrasted with the later bowls.

You say:


...The Focus of the book is true worship, as revealed in the peak of the chiastic structure of Revelation...
...It is the story of our redemption by the Old Testament God...

I consider this as a typical modern view and I don't agree with most modern views. It is similar to spauline's "salvation history" or the dispensational view. Like most interpretations today they see mankind and salvation as the focus of God's Word. I don't deny that mankind's salvation is a big part of God's Word, but I believe the focus of scripture is God's Word, that is Jesus Christ (John 1). I take the view that the book of Revelation and all of scripture is Christ centered, which is what many of the ECF believed.

The book says it is a revelation of Christ and I believe it is exactly that (1:1). It shows the Word of God for mankind from the beginning of scripture to the end. That's what I see in the pattern Moses saw on the mount which is the shadow of heavenly things. That's where design and purpose come in.

But I will respect your view and agree to disagree.

[Ted]

I don't understand the logic in saying the trumpets are only warnings and seals and saints are only seals and saints. To me these things are a recapitulation in the literary sense.
The appendix doesn’t have all the information to explain the thematic basis for the Seals and Trumpets. I discuss that in detail in the chapters that deal with each series. In short, the four horsemen are war, famine, pestilence, and death – God’s arrows to bring the apostate back (Deut 32). The Trumpets are the typological fulfillment of the Feast of Trumpets – the warning of judgment to come (Day of Atonement). I’ll leave the longer discussion for the book.

I consider this as a typical modern view and I don't agree with most modern views. It is similar to spauline's "salvation history" or the dispensational view. Like most interpretations today they see mankind and salvation as the focus of God's Word. I don't deny that mankind's salvation is a big part of God's Word, but I believe the focus of scripture is God's Word, that is Jesus Christ (John 1). I take the view that the book of Revelation and all of scripture is Christ centered, which is what many of the ECF believed.
If you had left off the first two sentences, we’d be in full agreement. I guess I have to ask you what you think Jesus is about. Revelation 1:1 explicitly says the book is about Jesus. The covenant is God’s way of relating to man, and Jesus is the maker of the covenant with His death on the cross. That’s why He’s the only one worthy to open the book of the covenant in chapter 5.

Ted

[eschaton]

I believe Jesus is God's Word and is the temple of the tabernacle of the testimony in heaven and the new creation (21:22)

15:5 And after that I looked, and, behold, the temple of the tabernacle of the testimony in heaven was opened:

In other words the Gospel is the message of God that explains who He is, who we are, and His plan for us. I think this is what scripture is all about when all things are considered. I guess I don't so much disagree with your view, but maybe I see it on another level. The focus should be on Christ because His Gospel is the focus of the overall book. I see the Gospel presented allegorically and it is an example for us to live by. However, I do believe there is a literal level to the scriptures and Christ is come in the flesh. If there wasn't a literal level we couldn't derive a sense of morality from the scriptures. So maybe we don't disagree, but we just view these things a little differently.

[rhutchin]

There’s a lot to be gained by looking at the “trees” or details of scripture, but I think there’s also a lot to be gained by looking at the “forest” or overall structure of Revelation as well. The relation between chapter 15 and the temple in heaven to the seven judgments upon earth in chapter 16 has been pointed out. This is a pattern repeated several times in Revelation. There is an unnumbered scene of a presence in or from heaven exemplified by the temple, and that is offset by a set of judgments upon the earth.


Chapter 1: The angel of the Lord and the golden candlesticks. The candlesticks are similar to the candelabra and can be seen as a temple symbol.
Chapters 2&3: The seven churches.

Chapters 4-5: The temple in heaven
Chapter 6-7: The seven seals opened

Chapter 8:2-8:6: The trumpet angels before God in heaven
Chapter 8:7-ch 11: The seven trumpets

Chapter 12:1-2: The scene in heaven
Chapters 12:3-ch 13: The Satanic beasts and judgments on earth

Chapter 14:1-5: The Lamb on Mt. Sion with the 144,000
Chapter 14:6-20: The six angels with judgments

Chapter 15: The temple in heaven
Chapter 16: The seven bowl judgments

Chapter 17-22: The 7 explanations and closing


We have six sections where we have heavenly temple type symbols followed by the judgments upon earth that are numbered except in chapters 12 and 13. In chapter 14 numbering is inferred by the third angel (14:9).

The symbols in the heavenly sections are mostly those of the interior of the temple. The judgments show mostly those earthly symbols outside the temple, earth (courtyard), sea (brass basin), fire and smoke (brass altar), etc.

The temple is in many ways symbolic of the Garden of Eden, and the number seven is symbolic of the creation week. Eden and the creation week are a chiastic structure, and some ECF believed that the creation week was a symbolic representation of the Gospel.

So what does all this mean?

Jesus claimed that the scriptures were about Him (John 5:39). The Revelation is that of Jesus Christ (Rev 1:1). The structure of Revelation and message shows an overall design and purpose in scripture from beginning to end. That is what God is supposed to be about, design, purpose and meaning as opposed to random meaninglessness. God is revealed by a book written over millennia by many different men, but with one design and purpose, that of the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Examining the details is good, but I think it’s too easy to get distracted from the true message.

It is always good to get an overall picture of any book and especially Revelation. Let me add a couple points for your consideration (and maybe I will read Ted's work soon).

1. Revelation begins, "The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave to [Christ] to show [God's] servants--things which must shortly take place." I think the revelation concerns the things which must shortly take place and not a revealing of Christ Himself (or something about Him). Ted made the point that it was about a covenant and this sounds right but specifically it is Christ's covenant with the church and what happens to the church if it rejects that covenant (which it was to do according to the revelation).

2. There is the issue of the numbers used in Revelation and what they mean. In Rev 1:4, John refers to the seven spirits before the throne of God. I understand this to be the Holy Spirit. Seven is used not to mean that there are seven individual spirits but that this is the complete/perfect (Holy) Spirit. I would apply this to other numbers. The seven churches are not seven individual churces but one perfect/complete church. The revelation is for the body of Christ (i.e., the church) symbolized by the term, "seven churches.".

[eschaton]

When you say it is not a revealing of Christ Himself you completely contradict everything I'm talking about. To me that takes away any design or purpose in scripture and reduces it to a literal "law" level only. I believe there are different levels of understanding scripture, but the greatest is the "spiritual" level. Focusing on the literal to the exclusion of other understanding denies the spirit (2 Cor 3:6). Jesus says the scriptures are about Him (John 5:39, Luke 24:44). If Revelation is about Jesus then it shouldn't be considered scripture.

And does it take place shortly on the calendar or in the spirit? Again we must seek a spiritual understanding. The ECF taught Christ comes continually in the church.

[rhutchin]

When you say it is not a revealing of Christ Himself you completely contradict everything I'm talking about. To me that takes away any design or purpose in scripture and reduces it to a literal "law" level only. I believe there are different levels of understanding scripture, but the greatest is the "spiritual" level. Focusing on the literal to the exclusion of other understanding denies the spirit (2 Cor 3:6). Jesus says the scriptures are about Him (John 5:39, Luke 24:44). If Revelation is about Jesus then it shouldn't be considered scripture.

And does it take place shortly on the calendar or in the spirit? Again we must seek a spiritual understanding. The ECF taught Christ comes continually in the church.

I agree with your general premise that the Scriptures are about Christ. However, much of what Paul writes in his epistles concerns the manner in which Christians are to behave. Given that revelation 1-3 focuses on a message to the church in that vein, I think the whole of Revelation is intended to encourage the church to serve Christ in the absence of His physical presence among them and until His return.

I am not sure what Revelation wants to tell us about Christ. Your outline does not seem to point in that direction. If Revelation is revealing Christ to us, can you provide a short summary of the manner in which you see it doing this?

[eschaton]

Hi rhutchin,

The pattern found over and over in the Bible is an allegorical recapitulation of the Gospel IMO. Several church fathers indicated that Revelation had a symbolic relation to the life of Christ and some of the first interpreters (Christian) of the Bible indicated that the creation account represented the gospel. I talk about these ideas in a web page and in several discussion groups including here at TWEB. Here is one of the messages.

http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/showthread.php?t=51960

Here is a web page which I need to update.

http://www.thegospelprophecy.com

[rhutchin]

Hi rhutchin,

The pattern found over and over in the Bible is an allegorical recapitulation of the Gospel IMO. Several church fathers indicated that Revelation had a symbolic relation to the life of Christ and some of the first interpreters (Christian) of the Bible indicated that the creation account represented the gospel. I talk about these ideas in a web page and in several discussion groups including here at TWEB. Here is one of the messages.

http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/showthread.php?t=51960

Here is a web page which I need to update.

http://www.thegospelprophecy.com

I ordered the commentary by Weinrich. It looks interesting. I still think that Revelation has much to do with the church but I am curious about how others may have seen Christ revealed in the events that are described. So, maybe we are both right. Revelation may be a revelation of Christ and from Christ concerning the church.

[eschaton]

I think that's a good choice. I have that commentary and have read it cover to cover. On pages 69 and 70 Apringius of Beja and Andrew of Caesarea see the stages of the live of Christ and the fulfillment in the Gospel. Origen says the whole of the scripture is revealed by the book. I also was gratified to see how many references there were to the week of creation and the 6000 years till the end of the world idea.