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How to attack Christianity

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  • How to attack Christianity

    If I wanted to attack Christianity I'd level my attacks at the teachings about the love and grace of God.

    Reasons why I'd attack there:
    1: Most people are convinced they're entirely unworthy of love or grace.
    2: Most people are too proud to want to accept one way love or grace.
    3: The idea of anyone as powerful as a God loving us is utterly ridiculous.
    4: The entire world operates on an legalistic system so love and grace are foreign concepts.

    So if you approach someone with love/grace they'll claim to be unworthy, resist it because they're too proud to accept a freebie, mock the idea that anyone with God like power would let anything slide, and then be confused by the offer because it's unlike anything they've experienced. The hard part about being a Christian isn't giving up sin but giving up on doing good.

    This is why Christianity is full of people who are nervous/legalistic wrecks.
    They don't actually believe the core of the faith.
    Seriously, atheists, it's easy pickings.
    Actually YOU put Trump in the White House. He wouldn't have gotten 1% of the vote if it wasn't for the widespread spiritual and cultural devastation caused by progressive policies. There's no "this country" left with your immigration policies, your "allies" are worthless and even more suicidal than you are and democracy is a sick joke that I hope nobody ever thinks about repeating when the current order collapses. - Darth_Executor striking a conciliatory note in Civics 101

  • #2
    You have to admit to being a helpless baby in distress in need of a home. Pretty much. The choice is to be treated like a child(accept the gift with trust and gratitude like a youngster would) or treated like a shameful criminal. Because children don't know better.
    If it weren't for the Resurrection of Jesus, we'd all be in DEEP TROUBLE!

    Comment


    • #3
      Once you accept the idea of a God the miraculous claims of Scripture are really the most reasonable part of the proposition.
      An all powerful God reigning down hellfire (floods/famine/etc) is completely understandable.
      Loving us seems like the most unbelievable response.
      Actually YOU put Trump in the White House. He wouldn't have gotten 1% of the vote if it wasn't for the widespread spiritual and cultural devastation caused by progressive policies. There's no "this country" left with your immigration policies, your "allies" are worthless and even more suicidal than you are and democracy is a sick joke that I hope nobody ever thinks about repeating when the current order collapses. - Darth_Executor striking a conciliatory note in Civics 101

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Meh Gerbil View Post
        Once you accept the idea of a God the miraculous claims of Scripture are really the most reasonable part of the proposition.
        An all powerful God reigning down hellfire (floods/famine/etc) is completely understandable.
        Loving us seems like the most unbelievable response.
        Yeah. Why become a puny human and die a shameful death for a bunch of ungrateful brats? Jesus really is awesome.
        If it weren't for the Resurrection of Jesus, we'd all be in DEEP TROUBLE!

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Gerbil
          Reasons why I'd attack there:
          As an insider of Christianity I often wonder why my default position isn't kindness.

          Sometimes I have to force kindness, I thought it would be different.
          The last Christian left at tweb

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Trout View Post
            As an insider of Christianity I often wonder why my default position isn't kindness.
            Sometimes I have to force kindness, I thought it would be different.
            My guess is that we've been playing Christian for too long.
            The quid pro quo Christianity we've been taught ill prepares us for reality.
            Actually YOU put Trump in the White House. He wouldn't have gotten 1% of the vote if it wasn't for the widespread spiritual and cultural devastation caused by progressive policies. There's no "this country" left with your immigration policies, your "allies" are worthless and even more suicidal than you are and democracy is a sick joke that I hope nobody ever thinks about repeating when the current order collapses. - Darth_Executor striking a conciliatory note in Civics 101

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Meh Gerbil View Post
              If I wanted to attack Christianity I'd level my attacks at the teachings about the love and grace of God.

              Reasons why I'd attack there:
              1: Most people are convinced they're entirely unworthy of love or grace.
              Yet, somehow, a large proportion of people manage to fall in love anyway.
              2: Most people are too proud to want to accept one way love or grace.
              Parent-child relationships always start out one-way.
              3: The idea of anyone as powerful as a God loving us is utterly ridiculous.
              It becomes less ridiculous if that God made us.
              4: The entire world operates on an legalistic system so love and grace are foreign concepts.
              Not on a personal level.
              The hard part about being a Christian isn't giving up sin but giving up on doing good.

              This is why Christianity is full of people who are nervous/legalistic wrecks.
              They don't actually believe the core of the faith.
              I don't have much sympathy for legalists. If God were a legalist, we'd all be damned.
              Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

              Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
              sigpic
              I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
                Yet, somehow, a large proportion of people manage to fall in love anyway.
                Very few of those relationships are unconditional love.

                Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
                Parent-child relationships always start out one-way.
                I could come up with at least 1/2 dozen reasons why people have children wherein love has nothing to do with it.

                Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
                It becomes less ridiculous if that God made us.
                Perhaps, although I could come up with dozens of reasons to make something wherein love has nothing to do with it.
                Add in sin and love becomes ridiculous - his creative power makes us disposable.

                Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
                Not on a personal level.
                Most of what passes for love in the world is quite conditional.
                I hope the majority of love in your life is not that.

                Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
                I don't have much sympathy for legalists. If God were a legalist, we'd all be damned.
                You may be quite a bit more along your path than me; however, I suspect you embrace legalism to a degree that you'd find surprising.
                I'm constantly digging the stuff up in my own life, the roots only getting thicker and heavier the further I dig.
                Actually YOU put Trump in the White House. He wouldn't have gotten 1% of the vote if it wasn't for the widespread spiritual and cultural devastation caused by progressive policies. There's no "this country" left with your immigration policies, your "allies" are worthless and even more suicidal than you are and democracy is a sick joke that I hope nobody ever thinks about repeating when the current order collapses. - Darth_Executor striking a conciliatory note in Civics 101

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Meh Gerbil View Post
                  Very few of those relationships are unconditional love.
                  But it is conditional. One of the conditions is that it must be accepted without merit on the part of the recipient. (1 John 4:19. Ephesians 2:8-9.) Secondly, it is conditional on having faith in God through Christ. (Hebrews 11:6. John 3:18, 36. 1 Thessalonians 1:8. John 14:6.)
                  . . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV

                  . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV

                  Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by 37818 View Post
                    But it is conditional. One of the conditions is that it must be accepted without merit on the part of the recipient. (1 John 4:19. Ephesians 2:8-9.) Secondly, it is conditional on having faith in God through Christ. (Hebrews 11:6. John 3:18, 36. 1 Thessalonians 1:8. John 14:6.)
                    Those two statements are inharmonious. You're saying that somehow one must merit their faith to claim conditional love. You have a buttload of bible references though. Good on you for that.
                    The last Christian left at tweb

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Meh Gerbil View Post
                      If I wanted to attack Christianity I'd level my attacks at the teachings about the love and grace of God.

                      Reasons why I'd attack there:
                      1: Most people are convinced they're entirely unworthy of love or grace.
                      2: Most people are too proud to want to accept one way love or grace.
                      3: The idea of anyone as powerful as a God loving us is utterly ridiculous.
                      4: The entire world operates on an legalistic system so love and grace are foreign concepts.

                      So if you approach someone with love/grace they'll claim to be unworthy, resist it because they're too proud to accept a freebie, mock the idea that anyone with God like power would let anything slide, and then be confused by the offer because it's unlike anything they've experienced. The hard part about being a Christian isn't giving up sin but giving up on doing good.

                      This is why Christianity is full of people who are nervous/legalistic wrecks.
                      They don't actually believe the core of the faith.
                      Seriously, atheists, it's easy pickings.

                      the evidence I've been discussing in my God arguments (God coprolite and epistemic judgment show that those who experience God are not like this. They are better across the board in terms of having their lives put back together. Here are some characteristic findings from two of the studies. these findings are from empirical scientific studies in peer reviewed journals

                      Wuthnow:

                      *Say their lives are more meaningful,
                      *think about meaning and purpose
                      *Know what purpose of life is
                      Meditate more
                      *Score higher on self-rated personal talents and capabilities
                      *Less likely to value material possessions, high pay, job security, fame, and having lots of friends
                      *Greater value on work for social change, solving social problems, helping needy
                      *Reflective, inner-directed, self-aware, self-confident life style

                      Noble:

                      *Experience more productive of psychological health than illness
                      *Less authoritarian and dogmatic
                      *More assertive, imaginative, self-sufficient
                      *intelligent, relaxed
                      *High ego strength,
                      *relationships, symbolization, values,
                      *integration, allocentrism,
                      *psychological maturity,
                      *self-acceptance, self-worth,
                      *autonomy, authenticity, need for solitude,
                      *increased love and compassion
                      Last edited by metacrock; 04-08-2016, 01:10 AM.
                      Metacrock's Blog


                      The Religious a priori: apologetics for 21st ccentury

                      The Trace of God by Joseph Hinman

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Meh Gerbil View Post
                        Once you accept the idea of a God the miraculous claims of Scripture are really the most reasonable part of the proposition.
                        An all powerful God reigning down hellfire (floods/famine/etc) is completely understandable.
                        Loving us seems like the most unbelievable response.
                        that's because flesh seeks legalism and strives to aswage guilt. you can't make up for guilt. we can only accept grace as a gift. Yes God's love is unfathomable that doesn't make it untrue. you don't know because you reject the gift.
                        Metacrock's Blog


                        The Religious a priori: apologetics for 21st ccentury

                        The Trace of God by Joseph Hinman

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by 37818 View Post
                          But it is conditional. One of the conditions is that it must be accepted without merit on the part of the recipient. (1 John 4:19. Ephesians 2:8-9.) Secondly, it is conditional on having faith in God through Christ. (Hebrews 11:6. John 3:18, 36. 1 Thessalonians 1:8. John 14:6.)
                          no it's not. those are not conditions for God's love those conditions for salvation. God loves us anyway.
                          Metacrock's Blog


                          The Religious a priori: apologetics for 21st ccentury

                          The Trace of God by Joseph Hinman

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I have to agree with Gerbz. One of the hardest parts of my faith is believing God actually loves ME. I know I don't deserve it and I am constantly screwing up and I know I don't love God as much as I should, and don't obey him like I should.

                            I am like Paul where he says

                            Romans 7:18 For I know that good itself does not dwell in me, that is, in my sinful nature. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. 19 For I do not do the good I want to do, but the evil I do not want to do—this I keep on doing.

                            I guess that is where trust comes in regarding faith. I have to trust that God loves me and has forgiven me.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                              I have to agree with Gerbz. One of the hardest parts of my faith is believing God actually loves ME. I know I don't deserve it and I am constantly screwing up and I know I don't love God as much as I should, and don't obey him like I should.

                              I am like Paul where he says

                              Romans 7:18 For I know that good itself does not dwell in me, that is, in my sinful nature. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. 19 For I do not do the good I want to do, but the evil I do not want to do—this I keep on doing.

                              I guess that is where trust comes in regarding faith. I have to trust that God loves me and has forgiven me.
                              Exactly.
                              I'd word it more like this: "We come to trust in his nature as revealed through Jesus Christ".
                              If I wanted to destroy Sparko I would hammer on this point, and yet, even as I reveal the Christian Theology's greatest weakness no atheist will run with it.

                              My theory is that atheists are permitted their delusions (1) because it protects believers from assaults on our most vulnerable front.
                              I believe this is backed up by scripture in Corinthians 13 when love is identified as the force that really moves mountains.
                              It is incomprehensible that love is actually the nuclear force of all reality so the tinkling of cymbals will continue.

                              Thank God for that.



                              NOTES
                              ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                              1: The delusion? The fantasy that anyone actually gives a flying donut about the endless sophistry that passes as intelligent debate.
                              Actually YOU put Trump in the White House. He wouldn't have gotten 1% of the vote if it wasn't for the widespread spiritual and cultural devastation caused by progressive policies. There's no "this country" left with your immigration policies, your "allies" are worthless and even more suicidal than you are and democracy is a sick joke that I hope nobody ever thinks about repeating when the current order collapses. - Darth_Executor striking a conciliatory note in Civics 101

                              Comment

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