As an atheist, what attacks on atheism do you find to be most effective?
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This forum is open discussion between atheists and all theists to defend and debate their views on religion or non-religion. Please respect that this is a Christian-owned forum and refrain from gratuitous blasphemy. VERY wide leeway is given in range of expression and allowable behavior as compared to other areas of the forum, and moderation is not overly involved unless necessary. Please keep this in mind. Atheists who wish to interact with theists in a way that does not seek to undermine theistic faith may participate in the World Religions Department. Non-debate question and answers and mild and less confrontational discussions can take place in General Theistics.
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Atheists - What attacks on Atheism Work Best?
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Atheists - What attacks on Atheism Work Best?
Actually YOU put Trump in the White House. He wouldn't have gotten 1% of the vote if it wasn't for the widespread spiritual and cultural devastation caused by progressive policies. There's no "this country" left with your immigration policies, your "allies" are worthless and even more suicidal than you are and democracy is a sick joke that I hope nobody ever thinks about repeating when the current order collapses. - Darth_Executor striking a conciliatory note in Civics 101Tags: None
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The one where y'all ask how we'd like to be killed by Hitler.
That's the best one.
I've never figured out an answer to that.
Second best has to go to arguments for an unnamed God that doesn't have any distinguishable features, doesn't do much, and doesn't much care how we feel about that. I think OBP likes to call that apophatic theology, a God you can only define by what It isn't. The more you know about what that God isn't, the more you know about God.
Personally, I'd go with arguments for a theistic god that shares some unnameable aspect with every other theistic deity ever proposed by mankind. Stay away from any details that can be checked.
And whatever you do, don't hitch your arguments to a book with a talking snake in the third chapter.
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Difficult to say.
Nontheists are usually very taken by the fine-tuning and cosmology arguments. I don't personally put too much weight in them myself right now, and I think natural explanations will prevail in the end, but it is usually something that makes the typical nontheist stumble in a discussion.
Some NDE's are difficult to explain, so I can see that being a good argument. The relationship between the mind and the laws of nature IE: 'why are humans capable of understanding the laws of nature?' is something I've always found far more interesting than say, the Kalam cosmological argument. Arguments from beauty are sometimes attractive but professional philosophers seldom use it, and instead use outdated forms of the argument from design.
One thing not to use is the argument from morality. Its undoubtedly the weakest argument in the apologists arsenal, aside from advocacy of creationism - which you should definitely stay away form.
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Originally posted by lao tzu View PostPersonally, I'd go with arguments for a theistic god that shares some unnameable aspect with every other theistic deity ever proposed by mankind. Stay away from any details that can be checked.
What about it seems effective to you?Actually YOU put Trump in the White House. He wouldn't have gotten 1% of the vote if it wasn't for the widespread spiritual and cultural devastation caused by progressive policies. There's no "this country" left with your immigration policies, your "allies" are worthless and even more suicidal than you are and democracy is a sick joke that I hope nobody ever thinks about repeating when the current order collapses. - Darth_Executor striking a conciliatory note in Civics 101
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Originally posted by Sea of red View PostNontheists are usually very taken by the fine-tuning and cosmology arguments. I don't personally put too much weight in them myself right now, and I think natural explanations will prevail in the end, but it is usually something that makes the typical nontheist stumble in a discussion.
Don't these just get waved away as "that's the way things are"?
Are there any ones in particular that strike you?
Originally posted by Sea of red View PostSome NDE's are difficult to explain, so I can see that being a good argument. The relationship between the mind and the laws of nature IE: 'why are humans capable of understanding the laws of nature?' is something I've always found far more interesting than say, the Kalam cosmological argument. Arguments from beauty are sometimes attractive but professional philosophers seldom use it, and instead use outdated forms of the argument from design.
Never used them.
Clearly, what we often consider to be someone else's weakness says more about us then them.Actually YOU put Trump in the White House. He wouldn't have gotten 1% of the vote if it wasn't for the widespread spiritual and cultural devastation caused by progressive policies. There's no "this country" left with your immigration policies, your "allies" are worthless and even more suicidal than you are and democracy is a sick joke that I hope nobody ever thinks about repeating when the current order collapses. - Darth_Executor striking a conciliatory note in Civics 101
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Originally posted by Meh Gerbil View PostAs an atheist, what attacks on atheism do you find to be most effective?
For non-violent attacks, the JW approach of targetting individuals who are suffering depression or grieving for lost family is often effective. I recall hearing a military padre saying that he found the best time to talk to marines about religion was when they'd just completed a gruelling exercise or a series of long shifts on duty. Basically the attacks on atheism that rae the most effective are those that take place when the attackee is tired or distracted and thus not as capable of spotting flaws with the theistic arguments.Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.
MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.
seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...
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Originally posted by Roy View PostDaesh's attack in Paris worked well, and the Bangladeshi use of machetes may prove successful.
For non-violent attacks, the JW approach of targetting individuals who are suffering depression or grieving for lost family is often effective. I recall hearing a military padre saying that he found the best time to talk to marines about religion was when they'd just completed a gruelling exercise or a series of long shifts on duty. Basically the attacks on atheism that rae the most effective are those that take place when the attackee is tired or distracted and thus not as capable of spotting flaws with the theistic arguments.Actually YOU put Trump in the White House. He wouldn't have gotten 1% of the vote if it wasn't for the widespread spiritual and cultural devastation caused by progressive policies. There's no "this country" left with your immigration policies, your "allies" are worthless and even more suicidal than you are and democracy is a sick joke that I hope nobody ever thinks about repeating when the current order collapses. - Darth_Executor striking a conciliatory note in Civics 101
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Originally posted by lao tzu View PostThe one where y'all ask how we'd like to be killed by Hitler.
That's the best one.
I've never figured out an answer to that.
Second best has to go to arguments for an unnamed God that doesn't have any distinguishable features, doesn't do much, and doesn't much care how we feel about that.
I think OBP likes to call that apophatic theology, a God you can only define by what It isn't. The more you know about what that God isn't, the more you know about God.
Personally, I'd go with arguments for a theistic god that shares some unnameable aspect with every other theistic deity ever proposed by mankind. Stay away from any details that can be checked.
And whatever you do, don't hitch your arguments to a book with a talking snake in the third chapter.Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:
go with the flow the river knows . . .
Frank
I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.
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Originally posted by Meh Gerbil View PostI'll admit, I see no power in these whatsoever.
Never used them.Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by shunyadragon View PostHighlighted sounds close to the Baha'i argument for the existence of God.
Not your position, specifically (or that of the Baha'i) but rather the idea one would argue for the existence of God.
To my way of thinking God should be self-evident.
I've always found it odd to be in a position of arguing for the existence of God.
First, his existence has always been obvious to me (delusional though I may be).
Second, I feel like arguing that God exists isn't even my responsibility - I find it embarrassing to even attempt to make that sort of argument.
I feel as if the Bible doesn't argue for the existence of God but rather argues about the nature of God.
Part of the reason why you'll find me hanging out in the atheist's forum is because I don't see any threat whatsoever from atheists; however, I simply cannot abide the presence of certain unnamed branches (read: most) of Christianity because we've the same presuppositions and they attempt to use those commonalities to enslave me. I find myself not only on the internet but in real life hanging out with people I don't understand because the ones I do understand are too damn dangerous.
Anyways, arguing for the existence of God just struck me as ludicrous.Actually YOU put Trump in the White House. He wouldn't have gotten 1% of the vote if it wasn't for the widespread spiritual and cultural devastation caused by progressive policies. There's no "this country" left with your immigration policies, your "allies" are worthless and even more suicidal than you are and democracy is a sick joke that I hope nobody ever thinks about repeating when the current order collapses. - Darth_Executor striking a conciliatory note in Civics 101
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Originally posted by seer View PostWhat exactly do you use?
I've seen such much evil with that approach that I no longer care to convince anyone of anything.
It doesn't mean you've been evil with it, but I've been evil with it.
I've also found syllogisms to be so plastic as to be quite nearly worthless.
I used to place a great deal of faith in wit/speech/argument and now I think they've little use beyond entertainment value.
Now I usually just watch the horror around me and wonder about it.Actually YOU put Trump in the White House. He wouldn't have gotten 1% of the vote if it wasn't for the widespread spiritual and cultural devastation caused by progressive policies. There's no "this country" left with your immigration policies, your "allies" are worthless and even more suicidal than you are and democracy is a sick joke that I hope nobody ever thinks about repeating when the current order collapses. - Darth_Executor striking a conciliatory note in Civics 101
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Originally posted by Meh Gerbil View PostI always feel as if syllogisms are manipulative.
I've seen such much evil with that approach that I no longer care to convince anyone of anything.
It doesn't mean you've been evil with it, but I've been evil with it.
I've also found syllogisms to be so plastic as to be quite nearly worthless.
I used to place a great deal of faith in wit/speech/argument and now I think they've little use beyond entertainment value.
Now I usually just watch the horror around me and wonder about it.
I feel as if the Bible doesn't argue for the existence of God but rather argues about the nature of God.Last edited by seer; 04-11-2016, 08:02 AM.Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by Meh Gerbil View PostAs an atheist, what attacks on atheism do you find to be most effective?“I think God, in creating man, somewhat overestimated his ability.” ― Oscar Wilde
“And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that He would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence” ― Bertrand Russell
“not all there” - you know who you are
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