HUMOR! 666: Number of the Beast

[spauline]

I got this off of Catholic Answers Forum. It is HILLARIOUS! :rofl:

]Ah yes, the Beast's number.

666 = number of the Beast
665 = older brother of the Beast
660 = approximate number of the Beast
66600 = zip code of the Beast
$665.95 = retail price of the Beast
DCLXVI = Roman numeral of the Beast
666.0000 = Number of the High-Precision Beast
0.666 = Number of the Millibeast
/666 = Beast Common Denominator
-666½ = Imaginary number of the Beast
6.66e3 = Floating point Beast
1010011010 = Binary number of the Beast
6, uh . . . what was that number again? = Number of the Blonde Beast
1-666 = Area code of the Beast
666 mph = Speed limit of the Beast
$699.30 = Price of the Beast plus 5% state sales tax
$769.95 = Price of the Beast with all accessories and replacement soul
$656.66 = Walmart price of the Beast
$646.66 = Next week's Walmart price of the Beast
Phillips 666 = Gasoline of the Beast
Route 666 = Way of the Beast
666 F = Oven temperature for roast Beast
352 – Oven temperature for roast Beast in Europe
666(k) = Retirement plan of the Beast
666 mg = Recommended Minimum Daily Requirement of Beast
6.66% = 5-yr CD interest rate at 1st Beast of Hell Nat. Bank, $666 min. deposit
$666/hr = Beast's lawyer's billing rate
Lotus 6-6-6 = Spreadsheet of the Beast
Word 6.66 = Word Processor of the Beast
i66686 = CPU of the Beast
665.9997856 = Number of the Beast on a Pentium
666i = BMW of the Beast
DSM-666 (revised) = Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of the Beast
1232 Octal, Apt. 29A = Beast's hexed address
668 = Next-door neighbor of the Beast
333 = The semi-Christ[/FONT][/I]

[LostSheep]

-666½ = Imaginary number of the Beast


:lol: I don't mean to nitpick, but shouldn't that number be -666i?

That would be an imaginary number.

[spauline]

you know, another friend commented on that. I didn't author this, another person on Catholic Answers posted this in a thread that was discussing "666".

My thinking is, the "1/2" is perhaps intended to an exponent, that is:

(-666)^(1/2)

[LostSheep]

I really shouldn't elaborate on this point in an Eschatology Forum thread, but an imaginary number is a (digit) number ( a "real" number, or scalar), the "-666", multiplied by the square root of -1, defined as "i". That's the definition of an "imaginary" number.

[spauline]

I really shouldn't elaborate on this point in an Eschatology Forum thread, but an imaginary number is a (digit) number ( a "real" number, or scalar), the "-666", multiplied by the square root of -1, defined as "i". That's the definition of an "imaginary" number.


OK, but so then it IS an imaginary number when simplified:

(-666)^(1/2)

= ([-1][666])^(1/2)

= (-1)^(1/2)(666)^(1/2)

= square_root(666)*i

and since square_root(666) is a real number, in the end, this is indeed imaginary.

[LostSheep]

You know what, I completely missed that before. You're ABSOLUTELY correct.

[spauline]

You know what, I completely missed that before. You're ABSOLUTELY correct.


no problem. I'm a total geek. I took Calculus BC AP test and placed into mulit-var calculus as a beginning freshman. In the final freshmen quarter, i doubled up with diffeq and linear algebra, so that as a fall-quarter sophomore, i was taking 400 level advanced calc. Either slept in class or skipped and set all the curves. Went on to be co-valedictorian in the Math Program for my undergrad.

Therefore, I should know this stuff! :teeth:

[TyRockwell]

original address of the Beast, 1st Kings, 10:14 "In one year Solomon collected 666 talents of gold. "reckon" the number, or "calculate" the number, Rev. 13:18, also means, "Look it up!"

[maudman]

original address of the Beast, 1st Kings, 10:14 "In one year Solomon collected 666 talents of gold. "reckon" the number, or "calculate" the number, Rev. 13:18, also means, "Look it up!"

Yeah this is correct; Revelation was referring to something in Old Testament as it always is because in the new there was a revealing of the old. Christ revealing to the church something.

When I found that several years ago searching with my first computer bible program for six hundred three score and six, it began to make sense. Not entirely but at least it took away the imagination of mental exercises.

But it takes wisdom to understand why that reference to the Old Testament has more meaning than gold or the number itself.

666 had no special meaning. How many scribes would be able to clearly remember such an obscure reference to gold and that number itself which in the context of the 3rd book of kings in our catholic bible is really insignificant. So what is the big deal with 666.

Once one thinks in a certain light it all begins to jell. For that verse to make sense there needed to be a history that hadn’t yet happened.

Indeed the Apostles already knew of certain prophetic events. There is no reference for what hasn’t happened only in there history could the Holy Spirit point to something to shed light on certain prophetic events and 666 is how it did it.

For that verse to be interpreted in the future with “wisdom”, the historical events that were yet in the future that gave wisdom to he that watches, hadn’t yet happened.

One may ask why? Why an old testament reference for something historically recorded as an Israelite scribe accounting reference could possibly shed light for something that hadn’t yet happen, but yet already had? And later beyond in a future event that it points to which the 666 would lead insight to the revelation of wisdom.

Yet it is so simple it’s hard to believe. It’s simple because it’s that one thing about history itself.

MDN

[TyRockwell]

The relevance of the 1st Kings 10:14 use of 666, to that of Rev.13:18, is the subject of wisdom. "Let him who has wisdom look up the number of the beast." Solomon's wisdom was given to him by God. But the evil corallary is that people want to make their government's 'wisdom' equal to God's. Solomon's 666 talents of gold were paid to him by people seeking to hear his wisdom. It was money paid willingly, that was above any tax or revenue... it was tribute. When people will pay more than needed, (higher taxes) in order to live under 'government's wisdom,' they have received the mark of the beast. Especially if they believe they don't need God, and that government can fulfill God's role in their lives. Can you see how that is true?

[maudman]

The relevance of the 1st Kings 10:14 use of 666, to that of Rev.13:18, is the subject of wisdom. "Let him who has wisdom look up the number of the beast." Solomon's wisdom was given to him by God. But the evil corallary is that people want to make their government's 'wisdom' equal to God's. Solomon's 666 talents of gold were paid to him by people seeking to hear his wisdom. It was money paid willingly, that was above any tax or revenue... it was tribute. When people will pay more than needed, (higher taxes) in order to live under 'government's wisdom,' they have received the mark of the beast. Especially if they believe they don't need God, and that government can fulfill God's role in their lives. Can you see how that is true?

Hello Tyrockwell

Yes, I can see how it is true. I don't disagree with your comments. Your comments point to part of the issue concerning some things. I had another post I had written that was more revealing but I held back to see if and how you will respond. There is much more to all of this but in the end its real simple. Understanding some of the details and more of Revelation's obscure text.

Your post does touch some thing generally. I think you kind of touch on the spirit of some things but there is more so much more. But Oh how I hate discussing these gems in a public forum.

But anyway I agree with some of the things you say.

Peace and God bless

MDN

[Teallaura]

666 A - Apartment number of the Beast
66600 - CPT (Current Procedural Terminology) code of the Beast (okay, funniest when you realize it's from medical insurance billing - rather appropriate, too)
E666.0 - Diagnostic code of the Beast
06/06/06 - date of the Beast
UB-666 - Hospital billing form of the Beast
V666 - cylinders of the Beast
VW666 - Bug of the Beast
666.0 liter - engine volume of the Beast
66x6 - standard dimension of the Beast
$6.66 - current price per gallon of the Beast
6:66 am - wake up call of the Beast
666g - total carbs of the Beast
666 tsp - Serving Size of the Beast
666D - cup size of Mrs. Beast
666W - shoe size of the Beast
666 RAM - memory of the Beast
666 cu. ft. - cement pour of the Beast


:teeth:

[spauline]

:teeth:

666 Billion Dollars: GNP of the Kingdom of the Beast
666 Trillion Dollars: National Debt of the Kingdom of the Beast, not counting the Eternal Debt
666 L: flushing volume of the Toilet of the Beast

[Teallaura]

:rofl:

[Chief Pain in the Butt]

I don't know if this is relevant or not, but here goes:

Proof That Barney is the AntiChrist

-Start with CUTE PURPLE DINOSAUR
-Change all U's to V's[proper latin] CVTE PVRPLE DINOSAVR
-Extract all Roman Numerals C V V L D I V
-Change them to #'s people can understand: 100+5+5+50+500+1+5
-Add them up: 666

[JonLanceBarker]

:lmbo: :lmbo: :lmbo: :lmbo: :lmbo: :lmbo:

[spauline]

I don't know if this is relevant or not, but here goes:

Proof That Barney is the AntiChrist

-Start with CUTE PURPLE DINOSAUR
-Change all U's to V's[proper latin] CVTE PVRPLE DINOSAVR
-Extract all Roman Numerals C V V L D I V
-Change them to #'s people can understand: 100+5+5+50+500+1+5
-Add them up: 666


Oh Lord, Save us! You have solved the mystery of iniquity, chaotic_void! Now we must pray with all our hearts to be given the courage to die for Jesus, rather than worship "the CUTE PURPLE DINOSAUR"!!! :eek:

[TyRockwell]

Hello Tyrockwell

Yes, I can see how it is true. I don't disagree with your comments. Your comments point to part of the issue concerning some things. I had another post I had written that was more revealing but I held back to see if and how you will respond. There is much more to all of this but in the end its real simple. Understanding some of the details and more of Revelation's obscure text.

Your post does touch some thing generally. I think you kind of touch on the spirit of some things but there is more so much more. But Oh how I hate discussing these gems in a public forum.

But anyway I agree with some of the things you say.

Peace and God bless

MDN
I appreciate your response. It has been hard to get an open minded hearing with people. Another aspect of 'the mark' of the beast that has been tough to get people to accept, is that they, too, if a christian, have "the mark of the stamp of the seal of the Holy Spirit," Eph. 1:13, AMP on their foreheads. Rev. 7:3. Just as the mark we have is invisible, so is the mark of the beast invisible. Its not about 'getting marked,' possibly against your will, but its your voluntary thoughts, forehead, and your voluntary actions, right hand, that shows to whom your allegiance belongs, either to God, giving the Holy Spirit's mark, or to the beast, as a substitute for God.

[Teallaura]

I don't know if this is relevant or not, but here goes:

Proof That Barney is the AntiChrist

-Start with CUTE PURPLE DINOSAUR
-Change all U's to V's[proper latin] CVTE PVRPLE DINOSAVR
-Extract all Roman Numerals C V V L D I V
-Change them to #'s people can understand: 100+5+5+50+500+1+5
-Add them up: 666

:glare: Hey!


That's "Evil Master Dark Overlord Cute Purple Dinosaur" to you!

[Meta Knight]

06/06/06 - date of the Beast


My friend's 16th birthday was on that day...should I be worried?

[Teallaura]

How many heads was he or she born with?

[Meta Knight]

How many heads was he or she born with?
I can't say...I've only known him for a little over 5 years...

[jonah bear]

Every time I power up my laptop to see Windows Vista, I become convinced that Bill Gates IS the ANTICHRIST!!!!!

[Teallaura]

Nah, it;s really the guy that invented 'trialware' (more correctly ;crapware').

[The Curtmudgeon]

Every time I power up my laptop to see Windows Vista, I become convinced that Bill Gates IS the ANTICHRIST!!!!!

http://egomania.nu/gates.html (http://egomania.nu/gates.html)

The (of course he is) Curtmudgeon

[gharfish]

He started down this path at an early age.

[jonah bear]

http://egomania.nu/gates.html (http://egomania.nu/gates.html)

The (of course he is) Curtmudgeon

I knew it was true!!:teeth:

[gharfish]

Oh, he's a beast alright. He's a sexy beast !

[maudman]

I appreciate your response. It has been hard to get an open minded hearing with people. Another aspect of 'the mark' of the beast that has been tough to get people to accept, is that they, too, if a christian, have "the mark of the stamp of the seal of the Holy Spirit," Eph. 1:13, AMP on their foreheads. Rev. 7:3. Just as the mark we have is invisible, so is the mark of the beast invisible. Its not about 'getting marked,' possibly against your will, but its your voluntary thoughts, forehead, and your voluntary actions, right hand, that shows to whom your allegiance belongs, either to God, giving the Holy Spirit's mark, or to the beast, as a substitute for God.

Hello TyRockWell

I think it is becasue people have run out of Ideas and have met with much frustration in the Past with this topic. But I can Help!

I agree with your approach it is a spiritual condition of worship and the metaphors of the right hand is a symbol for the work one did and the forehead was a symbol for what one used his work to accomplish that is in the mind of those that labor. It is what those things mean. But, it does play into an observable reality that is indirectly associated to these things and that is a beast of some sort.

The reason for the 666 is it became an obscure point of Reference. Cleaverly hidden I might add in its meaning. In getting back to something unseen, it is in fact that the Wisdom is that of Solomon. This is important because it is this understanding that his wisdom reveals .

Let me explain here with a verse from the Catholic Apocalypse of Saint John your Revelation 17 : 9 And here is the understanding that hath wisdom. YOu see it is in an understanding that has the wisdom that reveals a mystery. Something hidden secret or just plain ignored.

Now to understand the beast! And what is also latter seen as part of a secret or mysterious relationship with a Whore.

YOu see Solomon indirectly because of his wisdom built the beast that was and is not of Revelation. The one that goes into perdition. But the beast that Solomon built was an unseen beast. It was his wisdom that built the beast that will become known as an Eight Beast which was of the Seven beasts of God. Now you understand? To understand what defines charactorizes the Beast is to understand the wisdom of Solomon. And More importantly how this beast will attempt to do what Solomons beast did which was to build a temple for the Lord only now and after Chirst it is an Abomonation. Solomon was going to build the temple and he created a materialistic Beast, but it was his wisdom that is the Mystery or secret unseen force.

In the Latter day's this Whore uses the wisdom of Solomon clocked behind the beast with the seven heads and the ten horns which has the spirit of the eighth beast of Solomon.

Peace and God Bless
MDN

[The Curtmudgeon]

Oh, he's a beast alright. He's a sexy beast !

Get a room, you two!

The (admit it, La G -- you really only love him for his money) Curtmudgeon

[jonah bear]

Oh, he's a beast alright. He's a sexy beast !

I think you may be in BIG trouble for posting such provocative pictures on a Christian site and trying to lure us into the lair of the beast! It's almost, well, hypnotic!:teeth:

[TyRockwell]

Some of what you said, I agree with. Solomon, the son of David, built the original, physical Temple of God. Likewise, Jesus, the Son of David to Whom the promises were made, built a spiritual temple inside his people. I wouldn't call Solomon's temple a beast. Plus, it was torn down and utterly demolished in the Babylonian invasion. The whore of Babylon was, and is, the false religion of Babylon. Nebuchadnezzar wanted to consider himself a god. His son, Belshazzar, wanted to set up an idol to be worshipped. These were mirror image opposites of David and his son. Any false religion is an object of spiritual adultry, as God had spoken of the false gods that Israel turned to. The Rev.17 beast is the false religion of Islam, in whom is found the blood of God's servants, apostles and prophets. This speaks of the violence that we see, and the effort to control governments that we see today in Islam.

[maudman]

Some of what you said, I agree with. Solomon, the son of David, built the original, physical Temple of God. Likewise, Jesus, the Son of David to Whom the promises were made, built a spiritual temple inside his people. I wouldn't call Solomon's temple a beast..

Hello Tyrockwell

I think you miss understood and it is probably because of the way I wrote.

I never said The temple Solomon was the Beast. YOu yourself have already acknowledged that the tribute of those blindy giving money to here the wisdom of Solomon as today is some kind of corruption. The temple wasn't the Beast! It was the Economic infrastructure Solomon had created to build it. This all served the Purpose and the task The Lord had given to Solomon.

It has nothing to do with the temple, what it has to do with is the ecnomic beast that rose out of his efforts. It is Solomon's wisdom that eventually becomes a beast in Revelation. Solomon had done what Babylon Couldn't. Why? Because when Babylon tried to build a temple that would reach unto the heavens, God halted it. What babylon is, is a charactorization, a metaphor. IN the Latter days the whore uses the wisdom of solomon to build its temple.

It hasn't got a thing to do with muslums if anything the muslim have suffered from all the crap.

Look at the description of the Whore. The moon under her feet, symbol of What? all those who buy sell and trade, Musicians, Craftsmen. All nation wail at her judgment because no one buy's her goods anymore. Now ask your self and really be honest. The only people who go to the middle east are those getting oil. The middle east isn't the trade center of the world its true that it suppies an important part in the ecomony of it. But there isn't any infrastructure to be the Global monolith of the civilized world. Solomons wisdom broke down the cultural and religious barriers of his time to get what he need to build the temple. The middle east is a death camp and not from any efforts of its own nor for the lack of any. It is one of the most exploited place on earth and its people have been used and abused for centuries and not just buy there own peoples although alot has happened.

The entire point of 666 is the amount of revenue in a year to build the temple and the only people who care about building another temple in Jerusalem Is who? And if they were allowed to build another temple? What would they do in it? And who would really understand the wisdom of Solomon and try to do with it what he did? And how many people Christians as others because of one city and the determination of those in bondage to it will have to die before those who think its worth murdering over to have it.

[maudman]

Just how serious can people be when trying to understand something like 666. If were not willing to first consider ourselves, then how can we be sure of our answers. If in Rev 17 : when it says Quote: ""They shall wonder or be astonished... (whose names are not written in the Lambs book of life from the foundation of the world) ...When they behold the beast that was and is not and yet is comes"". Why are they wondering or astonished? Well maybe because it isn't what they thought or expected. Maybe when they see the beast that does everything they see in the scriptures, Their saying "how can this be"

It repeatedly say's in the scripture in reference to the beast that it takes one with an understanding that is wisdom or and understanding that has in it the wisdom, the irony is no where in scripture does it say that just because we can read the scripture that were wise or that we posess such a thing as wisdom.

What should send a flag up, is that if your trying to understand, then you may not be watching, because those who watch often have a pretty good Idea decieved or otherwise what they are watching for. It never say's watch so you can figure it out, but watch because you know what is coming but you may not know when it will arrive.

SO why do we have so many rediculus speculation about 666? Because those that can read are most often not wise. Wisdom is knowledge of others! and if you don't know what others are doing then claiming to be wise you will become the fool.

MDN

[spauline]

OK, maudman, don't you really see what the mark and Seal of God are all about.

This is what I mean to get to in my Ecclesiology in the Apocalypse thread. The dragon had to first disable Eve's forehead, that is, her faith in God's Revelation, so as to ease the suggestion to her hand to take the fruit. So as long as a person is able to accept SOME of the truth of God, they will be less likely to reach out and take the fruit.

So then, the greatest impediment to mortal sin is faith. But where does one find the FULLNESS of truth to believe in? CATHOLICISM!!! You should know this, Maudman, you are Catholic. But can the devil undo Catholicism all at once? Can he cause it to go directly from full light to full darkness. No sir! The sun must set gradually.

So then the trumpets are this progressive darknening, so that when they are complete, there is left in the final stage ,only total darkness, a person who will hear NONE of the sources of the Divine Truth. Who will hear neither the Trinity and Incarnation, nor the Pope, nor the General College of Bishops, nor the Sacred Writings, nor even reason.

Hence, only faithfull Catholics have the SEAL, and only total apostates (like atheists and relativists) have the mark. In between are the gray areas. FOr example, those tortured in the fifth trumpet are heretics, for they lose "five" sacraments. Those killed in the sixth are the supernaturally "dead", the children of the Enlightenment, who are of worldly heresies [10 X 2 X 1000] and worldliness [10 X 1000].

for there are THree Persons in One God, and as 7 is God's number, so 6, great imperfection, is man's number. Hence, three sixes in one number is man making himself to be God, and in the base of 10, which is the number of the world. So those with the mark are utterly their own god in their mind. They determine the truth utterly independent of ANY of the sources of the Divine Truth. And they seek as their ultimate end this world, instead of the Creator who Inifinitely exceeds it, who Alone can Satisfy.

[maudman]

OK, maudman, don't you really see what the mark and Seal of God are all about.

This is what I mean to get to in my Ecclesiology in the Apocalypse thread. The dragon had to first disable Eve's forehead, that is, her faith in God's Revelation, so as to ease the suggestion to her hand to take the fruit. So as long as a person is able to accept SOME of the truth of God, they will be less likely to reach out and take the fruit.

So then, the greatest impediment to mortal sin is faith. But where does one find the FULLNESS of truth to believe in? CATHOLICISM!!! You should know this, Maudman, you are Catholic. But can the devil undo Catholicism all at once? Can he cause it to go directly from full light to full darkness. No sir! The sun must set gradually.

So then the trumpets are this progressive darknening, so that when they are complete, there is left in the final stage ,only total darkness, a person who will hear NONE of the sources of the Divine Truth. Who will hear neither the Trinity and Incarnation, nor the Pope, nor the General College of Bishops, nor the Sacred Writings, nor even reason.

Hence, only faithfull Catholics have the SEAL, and only total apostates (like atheists and relativists) have the mark. In between are the gray areas. FOr example, those tortured in the fifth trumpet are heretics, for they lose "five" sacraments. Those killed in the sixth are the supernaturally "dead", the children of the Enlightenment, who are of worldly heresies [10 X 2 X 1000] and worldliness [10 X 1000].

for there are THree Persons in One God, and as 7 is God's number, so 6, great imperfection, is man's number. Hence, three sixes in one number is man making himself to be God, and in the base of 10, which is the number of the world. So those with the mark are utterly their own god in their mind. They determine the truth utterly independent of ANY of the sources of the Divine Truth. And they seek as their ultimate end this world, instead of the Creator who Inifinitely exceeds it, who Alone can Satisfy.

Hello Spauline

I'm not sure what this is about, Maybe a rant, or a rubuke? If you think my post was a to rant at those posting humerous things it wasn't.

It was a post to Tyrockwell to whom I have been enguaged. He say's that he has been having a hard time getting people to take seriously some of his thoughts or others who think along his lines. To be taken serious one must present those thoughts, and one must consider the knowledge of others. He has a belief or a intuitive sense that something under the surface isn't right, and like so many its always the other Guy and not ourselves that something is deceiving many.

But addressing some of your comments about the sun Gradually setting on the Church my opinions might differ depending on what you meant.

Whether the churches light shining or a light shining on the church. Christ said the Gates of hell wouldn't prevail against his church, so in that light I might disagree. Or when he said; "when the storms come and beat against the houses those built on a solid foundation will stand". And as recorded when Christ returns those living and dead will rise to meet him in the clouds..... And in the day's of the great tribulation they will be shorten for the elects sake.

But I also understand that there will be a time as Christ himself spoke that he said quote: when you are hated of all nations for my name sake then the end will come. Here again is a darkness but it simply could be a darkness that refuse to acknowledge the light. Or when the LOrd returns who will he find laboring. Or when he say's when the Son of man returns they will be marring and given in Marrage. Life is going on and I don't think you disagee with these things as you alway's post with a perspective of spiritual corruption that isn't alway visible.

Peace and God Bless

MDN

[Teallaura]

:brood: What part of 'humor' are you guys not understanding?

[maudman]

:brood: What part of 'humor' are you guys not understanding?


Its not the humor. It's really about Charactor.

Some people find it hard to find humor in something that they feel demands serious sober contemplation. Although some things regaurdless of their seriousness can make us laugh. Lack of fear can cause Humor.

Humor is for the most part absence of Gravity. To some It's hard to Laugh when people are falling from a ten story building.

Peace and God Bless

MDN

[Teallaura]

Refusing to find humor in anything means a lack of joy in everything.

[spauline]

Hello Spauline

I'm not sure what this is about, Maybe a rant, or a rubuke? If you think my post was a to rant at those posting humerous things it wasn't.

It was a post to Tyrockwell to whom I have been enguaged. He say's that he has been having a hard time getting people to take seriously some of his thoughts or others who think along his lines. To be taken serious one must present those thoughts, and one must consider the knowledge of others. He has a belief or a intuitive sense that something under the surface isn't right, and like so many its always the other Guy and not ourselves that something is deceiving many.

But addressing some of your comments about the sun Gradually setting on the Church my opinions might differ depending on what you meant.

Whether the churches light shining or a light shining on the church. Christ said the Gates of hell wouldn't prevail against his church, so in that light I might disagree. Or when he said; "when the storms come and beat against the houses those built on a solid foundation will stand". And as recorded when Christ returns those living and dead will rise to meet him in the clouds..... And in the day's of the great tribulation they will be shorten for the elects sake.

But I also understand that there will be a time as Christ himself spoke that he said quote: when you are hated of all nations for my name sake then the end will come. Here again is a darkness but it simply could be a darkness that refuse to acknowledge the light. Or when the LOrd returns who will he find laboring. Or when he say's when the Son of man returns they will be marring and given in Marrage. Life is going on and I don't think you disagee with these things as you alway's post with a perspective of spiritual corruption that isn't alway visible.

Peace and God Bless

MDN

I'm sorry, Maudman, I shouldn't have directed this at you. I should have just thrown it out as a general post.

No, I realize the gates of hell will not prevail. I was speaking of a spiritual darkness that is outside the Church, saving of course, the MORAL darkening of the Catholic clergy prior to the Protestant Revolt. But, no you are right on target: only those who have built their house on Peter will withstand the rains. The earth helped the woman and swallowed the flood from the dragon. Only with the foundation of truth, the Bishops and Peter, can anyone be protected from the calamities.

God Bless you, Maudman, and I'm sorry to have looked like I was rebuking. You are my dear brother.

In Him,
scott
:pray:

[spauline]

No, guys, I agree, humor has its place. And that's precisely why I posted this: and it is good-placed humor because it points out the folly of those who seek meaning in the wrong places. In many respects, it pokes fun at the absurd sensationalism of the fundamentalist.

that was why i posted the more serious part as well: for if there is to be meaning in the numerology of Scripture, and since taking it literally or in some gematria manner is not the way, does that not then imply that probably most of the meaning of the numbers of the Apoc deal with deeper spiritual mysteries and situations, rather than mph and lawyer's billing rates? :)

[jonah bear]

Can you imagine if we had the opportunity to interview the author of Revelation? It would be the most watched interview in history!

What a controversial book!

[Mark_S]

666 Dish Network's Channel for Beastv

[TyRockwell]

MDM, You equated the whore with the woman of Rev.12. How can this be, since it is the dragon, Satan, who wants to give the beast power in chapter 13, the same dragon, Satan, that tried to devour the male child of the woman in Rev.12:9? The woman who gave birth to the male child, was natural Israel. The imagery of clothed with the sun, the moon under her feet, and the twelve stars around her head points back to Joseph's dream in Genesis, that his father and mother and eleven brothers would bow their knees before him; which happened in their trip to Egypt to get grain and recover Benjamin.
Therefore the woman represents Israel, the means by which God got His Word into the earth, the Word that became flesh, Jesus, who was caught up to God's throne, who will rule all nations with a rod of iron. Rev. 12:1-5
Solomon's temple was not an ecomonic system. The reference to 666 in 1st Kings 10:14, clearly said that the talents of gold were NOT revenue. It was paid to Solomon by the rich, and kings and queens who came to hear his wisdom. It was not a tax, it was tribute. Jesus told His disciples to "buy and sell, til I come;" Luke 19:13, (in Greek, the same word, as "occupy, or "do business") the precise thing that the beast in Rev. 13:17 wants to prohibit, without the mark of allegience to the beast. This, in Rev. 12, is not a future set of events. Jesus was caught up to God and to His throne, and since the Accuser no longer had any place before God to accuse the brethren, the church, Michael and his angels prevailed, and cast the dragon out of heaven. The dragon was enraged and tried to destroy the woman who had given birth to the male child, "but the earth (the diaspora) helped the woman." Notice that it was not Michael, who had formerly helped Israel (see Dan. 12:1). Now we see Michael helps the church.
The reason so many have come up with many strange ideas about 666, is that they didn't consider another valid translation for "reckon the number," or "calculate the number of the beast." That word is "search for" the number. Because they didn't know to "look up the number" in 1st Kings 10:14, when, by wisdom, Solomon's Empire was the greatest, they didn't try. Not that they could have understood the connection, as Daniel was still sealed at the time when these ideas were come up with, so that they could not see the change in the role of Michael in Dan. 12:1 to that of Rev. 12:7-9.
The Whore of Babylon is trying to build an empire based on wisdom, just as the people of Babel had a wisdom that came from their common language and agreement. They were in "one accord" in rebellion against God, in Gen. 11:6-7. The false religion of Babylon today, is in open rebellion against God because they claim to be the covenant people of God, through the lineage of Ishmael, instead of through Jacob, as God plainly said.
When Jesus told his disciples to "buy and sell" till he comes, it meant that they were to do their jobs, as he had done, making disciples. He further said, "make disciples in all nations." This is where much of the church misses it; they want to make Christians, or church members, but they don't emphasize making disciples, in each generation, teaching them the Word, and telling them to keep on doing everything Jesus had taught his disciples to do. We are to be his servants and disciples. Faith comes by the word of God, not through church affiliation. The word 'church' is only used 3 times in the gospels, all in Matthew, but disciples and servants are found everywhere.

[maudman]

MDM, You equated the whore with the woman of Rev.12. How can this be, since it is the dragon, Satan, who wants to give the beast power in chapter 13, the same dragon, Satan, that tried to devour the male child of the woman in Rev.12:9? The woman who gave birth to the male child, was natural Israel. The imagery of clothed with the sun, the moon under her feet, and the twelve stars around her head points back to Joseph's dream in Genesis, that his father and mother and eleven brothers would bow their knees before him; which happened in their trip to Egypt to get grain and recover Benjamin.

/QUOTE]

First I need to correct a mistake That I made. Because I posted the The woman with the moon under her feet and that was from poor recollection, Its sometime what happens when I post off the cuff as I do most often. It isn't to be associated with the whore. I was waiting to see your post so I could reply to your post the correction rather than posting a correction seperately.

[QUOTE=TyRockwell;2097447]

Therefore the woman represents Israel, the means by which God got His Word into the earth, the Word that became flesh, Jesus, who was caught up to God's throne, who will rule all nations with a rod of iron. Rev. 12:1-5
Solomon's temple was not an ecomonic system. The reference to 666 in 1st Kings 10:14, clearly said that the talents of gold were NOT revenue. It was paid to Solomon by the rich, and kings and queens who came to hear his wisdom. It was not a tax, it was tribute. Jesus told His disciples to "buy and sell, til I come;" Luke 19:13, (in Greek, the same word, as "occupy, or "do business") the precise thing that the beast in Rev. 13:17 wants to prohibit, without the mark of allegience to the beast. This, in Rev. 12, is not a future set of events. Jesus was caught up to God and to His throne, and since the Accuser no longer had any place before God to accuse the brethren, the church, Michael and his angels prevailed, and cast the dragon out of heaven. The dragon was enraged and tried to destroy the woman who had given birth to the male child, "but the earth (the diaspora) helped the woman." Notice that it was not Michael, who had formerly helped Israel (see Dan. 12:1). Now we see Michael helps the church.
The reason so many have come up with many strange ideas about 666, is that they didn't consider another valid translation for "reckon the number," or "calculate the number of the beast." That word is "search for" the number. Because they didn't know to "look up the number" in 1st Kings 10:14, when, by wisdom, Solomon's Empire was the greatest, they didn't try. Not that they could have understood the connection, as Daniel was still sealed at the time when these ideas were come up with, so that they could not see the change in the role of Michael in Dan. 12:1 to that of Rev. 12:7-9.
The Whore of Babylon is trying to build an empire based on wisdom, just as the people of Babel had a wisdom that came from their common language and agreement. They were in "one accord" in rebellion against God, in Gen. 11:6-7. The false religion of Babylon today, is in open rebellion against God because they claim to be the covenant people of God, through the lineage of Ishmael, instead of through Jacob, as God plainly said.
When Jesus told his disciples to "buy and sell" till he comes, it meant that they were to do their jobs, as he had done, making disciples. He further said, "make disciples in all nations." This is where much of the church misses it; they want to make Christians, or church members, but they don't emphasize making disciples, in each generation, teaching them the Word, and telling them to keep on doing everything Jesus had taught his disciples to do. We are to be his servants and disciples. Faith comes by the word of God, not through church affiliation. The word 'church' is only used 3 times in the gospels, all in Matthew, but disciples and servants are found everywhere.

Now to address the General theme of your Post and explain the differences in our beliefs and interpretation of some verses.


First in the Catholic Church Interpretation of the Woman with the Moon under her feet.

In our's it isn't Israel, it is the Church Itself. The twelve stars are the Twelve Apostles which Crown her Head and the Man Child is Christ and the Church both the same because the Church is his Body. Crowned in the Glory. The Apostle were not the Crowning achievement of Israel but of the Lord. They were called out of Israel or the Twelve Tribes, and is a beginning of the Man child The Body of Christ of who the Church the woman and mother is giving Birth, The Body of Christ.

This will probably End any serious discussion because yours is based on Jewish Ideology that has crept in unaware and is not Christian. There is no more thing such as Jew or Israelite after the old Covenant. Just the Church Israel and the Gentile because Paul made no distiction between Jew and gentile they(israel) were as gentiles after the Messiah, they had to believe just as the gentile did.

If you do a text search for whore and harlot in the old testament you will better understand Revelation in the context of the new covenant. Paul said that it would be as the day's before the flood of Noah. When this condition arises...... because men get caught up with the cares of this world, then it would make possible for that to arise out of a pit of corruption that which the Lord would hate and is an Abomination. Israel sitting in Jerusalem calling itself the Israel of God is Blasphemy to any Christian that is salt.

Israel's Identity and the Earthly Jerusalem are in Bondage to each other because their Identities are intertwined. As long as God allowed people to call themselves Jew and Israelites the potiential for history to repeat itself would be Inevitable and we were told to "watch". Its part of Paul's warnings. It what would happen when people fall away and quit believing the Church the Woman and Mother.

The Catholic CHurch throughout its history is seen battling this problem of Jews and Jerusalem and many not understanding why? And while the church battled those things we were hated and despised by heretics and now it looks like the muslims are suffering for it because in the beginning they were part of the problem. While the Church was seen as Public enemy # 1 by muslums and Jews during the crusades and Inquistions because of the heresies that were rising from the two and the different motives of the two who made us our their enemy. All the While Both having their own agenda using each other for their own evil purpose.

But its all happening on the Protestant watch of the civilized world not RC's. but we'll suffer just as you because we'll all be hated for his name sake as Christ said in the end it would be. For what apostates and heretics (false prophets and teachers) have done. Many are going to suffer. As I here so many complain who's to blame and dang sure isn't the Catholic Church as so many of Protestant apocaliptic haters of the RCC.

MDN

[maudman]

I'm sorry, Maudman, I shouldn't have directed this at you. I should have just thrown it out as a general post.

No, I realize the gates of hell will not prevail. I was speaking of a spiritual darkness that is outside the Church, saving of course, the MORAL darkening of the Catholic clergy prior to the Protestant Revolt. But, no you are right on target: only those who have built their house on Peter will withstand the rains. The earth helped the woman and swallowed the flood from the dragon. Only with the foundation of truth, the Bishops and Peter, can anyone be protected from the calamities.

God Bless you, Maudman, and I'm sorry to have looked like I was rebuking. You are my dear brother.

In Him,
scott
:pray:

No need for an Apology wasn't offended Brother. I'll say many strange things and mostly only Catholics will appreciate it.

Yes, the Earth is Giving Birth because our Father in heaven has willed it. The Pains of our Birth. There are Dark clouds on the horizon but we have the Light that will guide us. Our Holy Mother Church is crowned with Glory and a light that burns from within, and the Bride Will be at the wedding, it is written so it shall be done!

Peace and God bless

MDN

[maudman]

Refusing to find humor in anything means a lack of joy in everything.

I don't find humor in others suffering or damnation and less I find humors that I would be subject to such things.

See what I mean.

Sometimes we can find Joy in our own misery but we shouldn't in others.

Peace and God Bless

MDN

[TyRockwell]

MDN, My example of the woman in Rev.12 as haven given birth to Jesus, has no presumption of the Hebrews being an 'Israel of God,' they are not. We agree. I still see them as the means of getting God's Word, Jesus, into the earth. The church didn't give birth to Jesus. The emphasis is on him, not her. You can see the pattern in Isaiah 9:6, where "a child is born, ...a son is given," then he is seen being caught up to the throne, ruling at God's right hand," (Eph. 1:20) "and the government shall be upon his shoulder." (1st Cor. 15:25) Daniel was still sealed when the RCC, and all the others, came up with their various ideas about Revelation. Jesus only dealt with the Hebrews briefly, in chapters 2 and 3, calling them a "synagogue of satan." Here, the woman fled into the desert. (12: 14) Massada. Jesus' followers believed him and fled into the mountains. (Matthew 24:16) Petra
I do not hate the RCC, but the 'mother of God,' idea isn't in Rev.12. The time frame of that woman was before Jesus' birth, and that woman, in Rev. 12, didn't believe in him. The old covenant imagery of harlotry, applied to those who go after false gods. I have many brothers, that I've never met, yet, in the RCC. The mistakes of the Crusades and Inquisitions came about through mixing the church with the state, though I have no problem with electing believers who know that there are different roles for the church and the state. God uses people in the state, as He did Joseph in Egypt, and Daniel in Babylon, but they were 'under God' more than 'heads of state.'
In Rev. 12 we see the transition from the old covenant (Isaac, in Gal. 4:28-29) to the new covenant. From the woman, persecuted, unbelieving Israel, to the male child, and "those that...hold to the testamony of Jesus." Also, there is far less a horrible time for the church, and in our future, than has been believed about Revelation.

[maudman]

Tyrockwell
My post go messed up some how! here is how it should have looked.


The Church would terms things a little different, The woman is the Covenant of God. The ManChild is Christ the Church. The Church existed both in the Old and the New, But is seen crowned in Glory as the Body of Christ and is Christ. Christ was the first begotten of Many sons of God and all who believe are his mother ,brother and sister.

Matthew 12:
46 Yet while he spake to the people, lo! his mother and his brethren stood withoutforth, seeking to speak with him.
47 And a man said to him, Lo! thy mother and thy brethren stand withoutforth, seeking thee.
48 And he answered to the man, that spake to him, and said, Who is my mother? and who be my brethren?
49 And he held forth his hand into his disciples, and said, Lo! my mother and my brethren;
50 for whoever doeth the will of my Father that is in heavens, he is my brother, and sister, and mother.
The Church is always and has always given birth to the body of Christ and will continue until God wills it to stop. To understand RCC is to understand That there is no difference, just as Father was seen in Christ so Son and the Father and the Holy Spirit is seen in the Church. These concepts are most often foreign to Prot's, Maybe because the nature in which the church expresses such things. He that doeth to the least of these my bretheren has done it unto me.
The Church has alway's existed because a faith existed that gave birth to Christ. It was revealed 2000 years ago and offered to all mankind that is all The seed was there. That which was concealed or hidden. It really never had anything to do with jews or Israel or gentile because the church was always in the faith that founded it or upon that which it is based. Those who did and do the will of Christ Father in heaven.
As far as CHurch and state are concerned and your comments.

There is no such thing as seperation of church and state. That is an illusion. The religious majority has alway's ruled. Everbody is religiuos. Either your religon has a God or it doesn't.
The only ones who complain about church and state are minorities in any social construct. If you've seperated Church and State? Then Why are people picketing the removal of the Ten commandments from a court house Lawn. People raise there Children and they become the leaders of their countries elected or not. And let me tell you, the day will come, When those who hate those who have a God and the day's are hear and getting darker, you'll wish there was a Church and state and you'll find that any problem that came from church and state will be trivail campared to the evil that will come from those who don't care about your God. You really don't understand history of the events you use and its ashame. I don't blame you for the preception you have but you should hear both side before you make any judgments.

Peace and God bless
MDN

[TyRockwell]

[QUOTE=maudman;2100053]Tyrockwell
My post go messed up some how! here is how it should have looked.


You said, [color]The woman is the Covenant of God.[color]
True, but in the New Covenant, Jesus is revealed as the Word of God. Peter said, "For you have been born again... of incorruptible seed, through the word of God which lives and abides forever." 1st Peter 1:23 It is still Jesus, the word that became flesh, that gives birth to the church. "the church that I will build." Matt. 16:18
You,- [color]The ManChild is Christ the Church. The Church existed both in the Old and the New, But is seen crowned in Glory as the Body of Christ and is Christ.[color]
The body of Christ is in one aspect distinct from Christ. We are not yet fully mature, "grown up into him who is the head." It is an on-going process. There is a distinction in the level of glory, but Jesus is still building his church. We are "being transformed into the same image, from glory to glory, by the Spirit of the Lord" 2nd Cor. 3:18 He is the head. We are "the whole building, being joined together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord, in whom you also are being built together for a habitation of God in the Spirit." Eph. 2: 21-22 We have not yet apprehended that glory, neither were we "caught up to God and to His throne." Rev. 12:5 In a spiritual sense, we are 'seated with him' Eph. 2:6. Jesus was literally caught up. We are literally still here, "till we all come to the unity of the faith and the knowledge of the Son of God, to a perfect (mature) man to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ; that we should no longer be children, tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, in the cunning craftiness by which they lie in wait to deceive, but, speaking the truth in love, may grow up into Him who is the head, Christ, from whom the whole body, joined and knit together by what every joint supplies, according to the effective working by which every part does its share, causes growth of the body for the edifying of itself in love." Eph. 4:13-16 There is one body, many parts. The glory is very much still lacking when the 'parts' are not accepting of one another in love. "The unity of the faith" is not achieved by any part excluding other parts, as the RCC does. Neither does only one part have the sole ability to speak the truth in love. God's word is Truth. We must see that faith comes by the word, the incorruptible seed, and that the church is birthed by the word and the spirit. We do not give birth to one another.
You-[color]Christ was the first begotten of Many sons of God and all who believe are his mother, brother and sister. Matthew 12:50 for whoever doeth the will of my Father that is in heaven, he is my brother, and sister, and mother.[color]
That incudes many whom the RCC refuses to be in unity with.
You quoted Jesus- [color]He that doeth to the least of these my bretheren has done it unto me.[color]
Like I said.
You- [color]As far as CHurch and state are concerned and your comments.[color]
You mis-read my comments. There is no seperation of church and state. I meant what the church does with the state has been the problem. In the 4th century the state was absorbed by believers initiating, the 'Holy Roman Empire,' and 'priests' were inserted in a hierarchy over other believers, when Christ had given, "apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors and teachers." There is not a 'priest' in that list. Each believer is a king and a priest unto God, "a royal priesthood," as Peter said.
Back to Rev. 12, The woman in verses 13-17 is the old covenant and its people, distinct from those "who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ."

[maudman]

Tyrockwell

I will leave the woman alone it is obvious that the Traditions of RCC and the Interpretation of our Church are very different and it will get No Where.

Thats why we have and end time and a Judgment because people will believe what they are taught and that is That. Blind lead the Blind, So when people don't take you serious you know Why. God has his Elect and your worried about 666 and you seem to think something is wrong and people are decieved and RCC has been here since the beginning and your traditions haven't. And were still here and will be.




There is one body, many parts. The glory is very much still lacking when the 'parts' are not accepting of one another in love. "The unity of the faith" is not achieved by any part excluding other parts, as the RCC does. Neither does only one part have the sole ability to speak the truth in love. God's word is Truth. We must see that faith comes by the word, the incorruptible seed, and that the church is birthed by the word and the spirit. We do not give birth to one another.
"

Thats a Protestant Problem not a RCC one. UNity of Faith is what were about, It's what history records. A tradition that expands Over a Thousand years. That is Faith and Loyalty. Not leaving and starting your own because you want to or because you don't believe as the next. In RCC we have differences but we don't trash the tradition that binds us. Forsake not the Tradition whether it was established by epistle or word of Mouth!

You ever wonder why, so many didn't follow the Protestant revolution.



You- [color]As far as CHurch and state are concerned and your comments.[color]
You mis-read my comments. There is no seperation of church and state. I meant what the church does with the state has been the problem. "

Church and state issues spouted by Protestant apologist has alway meant the Church influenced or tried to run the Goverment. This what you meant.

The argument of Church and state is straw and there is no difference in elected or appointed. The majority or those who cater to it have alway's ruled. Rome had its Leaders and they became Christian. JUst like Pasture's in America or any nation have influenced Politics and have been influencial with leaders who attend their Church. What it's showing is, is that within a few hundred years look what we have in America today. Power and wealth that say's to the world you must make yourself like us. In our image and yet look at some the most perverse stuff imaginable is happening in our own house and we tell the world to look at us as an example.

The evil is alway's somebody else or someone else. But the truth is the entire political structure was founded by Humanist and ran by Protestants for decades and centuries. If the earlier Protestants saw now in our country the things that go on we would be one of the most evil things on this planet.

But when your Identity is associated to the golden calf made and fashioned by your hands its hard see what's wrong.

I don't totally blame Protestant for everything that has happening in America when their by far the Majority that is always morphing into who knows what next.

It's the frog and the Boiling water. Throw him in when the water is hot, and he jumps right out. Turn it up slow and he will boil to death.

For centuries RCC or its papacy was the evil of evils. Demonized in roles of deceptive interpretations of Revelation. Now that evil hard to believe is here, who are the Prot's going to blame when RCC isn't responable? NOw its not because where the Whore of Revelation or the beast or the Pope is the Anti Christ but because we say were the Church and your not.

Well you found your replacement us "Muslims". Yeah, they're responable for all the abortions, Murders, Porn and every sick thing that can come from the abyss of reprobate. Yeah their the beast now. Look at all them, Driving those streamlined camels, Those new lean, one humpers. Look at al those material blessing in the middle east. Herds of sheep and Goats.

Your trying understand 666, you don't have to look very far. You are just making the same mistakes of those before. Re- inventing so we don't look bad or are seen as evil and yet how do we explain it.

God bless
MDN

[TyRockwell]

MDN, Calm Down! I understand 666. You don't. You are so bound up by traditions that you quote "the traditions of the elders," of the Pharisees, but fail to see that Jesus said, "Your traditions make the word of God of no effect." Don't forget that there were believers before the RCC was formed. They had the first writings of the apostles. Christianity has always been, about, "Whom do you say I am?" Believers are those who have the right answer and know that God raised Jesus from the dead, that he is Lord, and that they give him Lordship over their lives. No part of the church can exclude others, thinking that only they have the true traditions, or that traditions save. We are saved by God's grace, through faith. Now that more people can have and read the Bible, from which comes faith, you should be happy that faith has come, and not be concerned that it didn't come exclusively through the RCC.

[maudman]

Hello TY

MDN, Calm Down! I understand 666. You don't. .

I'm Not excited, I typed rather calmly in spirit, but in a hurry. Hee! Hee! But you may be reading it I'm exited as I write directly and not pretty.

Is That why no body takes you seriously? Your the only one who knows! Everybody is asking Ty, who do you say that 666 is?


You are so bound up by traditions that you quote "the traditions of the elders," of the Pharisees, but fail to see that Jesus said, "Your traditions make the word of God of no effect." Don't forget that there were believers before the RCC was formed. They had the first writings of the apostles. Christianity has always been, about, "Whom do you say I am?"
.

Our traditions hasn't made anything to have no effect. But yours sure have I'll give you that. Yours created a bunch of effects. But hey thats life! Morphing denominationalism



Believers are those who have the right answer and know that God raised Jesus from the dead, that he is Lord, and that they give him Lordship over their lives. No part of the church can exclude others, thinking that only they have the true traditions, or that traditions save. We are saved by God's grace, through faith. Now that more people can have and read the Bible, from which comes faith, you should be happy that faith has come, and not be concerned that it didn't come exclusively through the RCC.

Believers are those who believe the right answers and follow. Not go their own way! The decieved are those who believe wrongly and fall blindly in the ditch. The decieved aren't aware of deception! So how do you know when you are or not? And spare me the scripture bits theres been a lot of lies using scripture. Athiest use them also.

The bible is full of those who say they believed their God and yet didn't. They Quoted scripture all day at Christ and yet he chose twelve and they Followed him. IN turn those that were called under their apostleship remained in one CHurch, that is the earliest tradition and all tithe went to them. Why call me Lord and do not the things I say?

Orthodox and Catholic are the two oldest traditions of Christianity without Roman persecusion. And what ever the Church bond on earth would be bound in heaven. With the new covenant came new rules you need to learn them.

But you know what. I don't hate Prot's, My wife is One, at least right now, but she was looking at catholic for dummies at the book store the other day. I ask her why? And then told her she was married to one..

What I try to do is make people realize things, If they didn't invent what they most often inherit. Then they have to defend and with all the snake handlers out there your only freinds might be those who hate us. Ty you inherited or were predominatly cultured as a Prot's and I didn't invent Catholic Church so we just defend.

Peace and God Bless

MDN

[TyRockwell]

I don't worship God according to how I was reared. Neither do I hate Catholics. My faith comes from belief in the Word of God. I have been reading and studying it since I was old enough to read. My faith has been strengthened in the same way Peter's faith was, by God's revelation of the truth of who Jesus is. Jesus said ,"He that obeys my words are my mother, brother and sister." No exceptions.
I am not a "Protester." I am trying to get you to realize that I am equally as saved as you are. All I want is for you to accept that. I've been baptized, and I participate in the body and blood of our Lord.
If a person stranded on a deserted island, who had no experience of 'the church' found a Bible and came to faith, believing in, trusting in, and relying on Jesus and his words he would be born, by His Spirit, into Jesus' family, too.
The church is people. God is not trying to keep people out of his kingdom on nonadherence to all the traditions. As to 666, Holding on to old traditions violate what Dan. 12:4 said. The book was closed up and sealed until the end of this age, that we are in, now, not the age that ended in 70 AD. The old ideas ignored the sealing. It could not be understood before the unsealing. Same as with the Revelation, you could always read those two books, but Daniel was sealed, and the keys to understanding the never sealed Revelation were hidden in the sealed book of Daniel. It was God showing us to believe His word. When He said it was sealed, it was. Religious people would not wait for the time of its unsealing, perceiving themselves to be wise. The Holy Spirit, who is our counselor, and guide into all truth can open it up to anyone. As both John the Baptist and Jesus said, "Change the way you think, for the kingdom of God is within your reach!"

[maudman]

I don't worship God according to how I was reared. Neither do I hate Catholics. My faith comes from belief in the Word of God. I have been reading and studying it since I was old enough to read. My faith has been strengthened in the same way Peter's faith was, by God's revelation of the truth of who Jesus is. Jesus said ,"He that obeys my words are my mother, brother and sister." No exceptions.
I am not a "Protester." I am trying to get you to realize that I am equally as saved as you are. All I want is for you to accept that. I've been baptized, and I participate in the body and blood of our Lord.
If a person stranded on a deserted island, who had no experience of 'the church' found a Bible and came to faith, believing in, trusting in, and relying on Jesus and his words he would be born, by His Spirit, into Jesus' family, too.
The church is people. God is not trying to keep people out of his kingdom on nonadherence to all the traditions. As to 666, Holding on to old traditions violate what Dan. 12:4 said. The book was closed up and sealed until the end of this age, that we are in, now, not the age that ended in 70 AD. The old ideas ignored the sealing. It could not be understood before the unsealing. Same as with the Revelation, you could always read those two books, but Daniel was sealed, and the keys to understanding the never sealed Revelation were hidden in the sealed book of Daniel. It was God showing us to believe His word. When He said it was sealed, it was. Religious people would not wait for the time of its unsealing, perceiving themselves to be wise. The Holy Spirit, who is our counselor, and guide into all truth can open it up to anyone. As both John the Baptist and Jesus said, "Change the way you think, for the kingdom of God is within your reach!"

Hey TY

Just rubbing You a bit checking you out.

You seem a pretty cool customer. You didn't get to unravelled and that is a good sign.

So do you have an affiliation or are catholics, orthodox, Lutheran's muslims, Jews and athiest the only ones who tell what they really are around here?

Usually and quite often Prot don't recognise RC baptisms, so just checking.

But anyway I've just been throwing some things your way, Checking your spirit so to speak.

Peace and God bless

Oh before I forget, If you truly know and understand the beast and the 666 thingy? Then you Know and understand the two witness thingy.

MDN

[TyRockwell]

Hey TY

Just rubbing You a bit checking you out.

You seem a pretty cool customer. You didn't get to unravelled and that is a good sign.

So do you have an affiliation or are catholics, orthodox, Lutheran's muslims, Jews and athiest the only ones who tell what they really are around here.

Me--- My affliation is with Jesus, who is the Word of God. People only ask affiliations in order to decide whether or not to accept their brother, without hearing what he believes. Is Christ divided?

Usually and quite often Prot don't recognise RC baptisms, so just checking.

Me--- Baptism is not a matter that Christians should divide over. There are different traditions, but the idea of it is to take an action to 'back up' what you say you believe. Dedicating a baby to the Lord is alright, but eventually there should be a confirmation of the individual's own belief in the essential truths that Jesus is Lord, and Savior, whom God raised from the dead, after he paid the penalty of the sins of everyone. "He that believes and is baptised is saved." Mark 16

But anyway I've just been throwing some things your way, Checking your spirit so to speak.

Peace and God bless

Oh before I forget, If you truly know and understand the beast and the 666 thingy? Then you Know and understand the two witness thingy.

Me--- The two witnesses are each lampstands, meaning they are of the church. That they are two olive trees depicts the anointing, the presence of the Holy Spirit, as on kings and priests, the "royal priesthood" of believers. It also implies they are grafted back in to the olive tree, into Christ. "They are wearing sackcloth, a sign of mourning, pointing to the "mourning for Him whom they pierced," Zechariah 12:10. They are Hebrew, but have come to faith in Jesus. Jesus had said, "Many who were first will be last, and the last, first." The full number of gentiles will have come in. What will their "grafting back in be but life from the dead." Romans 11

MDN

Thank you for the opportunity to be heard,
Peace and God bless
Ty

[maudman]

Thank you for the opportunity to be heard,
Peace and God bless
Ty


Me--- My affliation is with Jesus, who is the Word of God. People only ask affiliations in order to decide whether or not to accept their brother, without hearing what he believes. Is Christ divided?
Me--- Baptism is not a matter that Christians should divide over. There are different traditions, but the idea of it is to take an action to 'back up' what you say you believe. Dedicating a baby to the Lord is alright, but eventually there should be a confirmation of the individual's own belief in the essential truths that Jesus is Lord, and Savior, whom God raised from the dead, after he paid the penalty of the sins of everyone. "He that believes and is baptised is saved." Mark 16



Well not why I ask about affiliation, I have found that in today's world most affiliate's are divided. Many don't believe all that is expressed in their faiths. Thats why I asked. In RC we accept the baptism of most Christian organizations so we recognize the ecumenical desire to know Christ. But the door doesn't swing both ways because in many of the other mostly Prot's they don't recognize our baptisms as true baptisms. And I shouldn't have to tell you what that means. And Yes we do have confirmation and the name is given.


Me--- The two witnesses are each lampstands, meaning they are of the church. That they are two olive trees depicts the anointing, the presence of the Holy Spirit, as on kings and priests, the "royal priesthood" of believers. It also implies they are grafted back in to the olive tree, into Christ. "They are wearing sackcloth, a sign of mourning, pointing to the "mourning for Him whom they pierced," Zechariah 12:10. They are Hebrew, but have come to faith in Jesus. Jesus had said, "Many who were first will be last, and the last, first." The full number of gentiles will have come in. What will their "grafting back in be but life from the dead." Romans 11



Yes, I am familiar with these verses and yes I am aware of their context in Revelation. And some and most all of your comments.

You have said some things that suprise me. They are Hebrew! Well yes and no. Don't ask me to explain that because I probably won't.

This is strange that you said that! You have me puzzled Also, Your statement " Him who they Pierced" We have all pierced him. But, it does tell me that maybe you don't think they are Individuals, or that they are a couple of Jews grafted back in through conversion. Now I would disagree with that. But you have said some things that tell me that your trying, but it is really in a vacum. You maybe more self taught but rely a little heavy in certain doctrine that I have read on the internet. Not that that is bad!

You said some things in previous post that might be baggage as in other places. The reason for my comments about the witnesses. It is in their death that those who worship the beast are wondering in Revelation when they behold the beast. Now you understand, I'm not saying I know the verses of scripture that point to their references in scripture. Many know those things.

What I know would be hard for many to swallow but it is the truth. And by the way Enoch and Elias are who the RC will be the two witnesses. But that does really say much either but it is the truth.

Peace and God bless

MDN

!

[TyRockwell]

Well not why I ask about affiliation, I have found that in today's world most affiliate's are divided. Many don't believe all that is expressed in their faiths. Thats why I asked. In RC we accept the baptism of most Christian organizations so we recognize the ecumenical desire to know Christ. But the door doesn't swing both ways because in many of the other mostly Prot's they don't recognize our baptisms as true baptisms. And I shouldn't have to tell you what that means. And Yes we do have confirmation and the name is given.



Yes, I am familiar with these verses and yes I am aware of their context in Revelation. And some and most all of your comments.

You have said some things that suprise me. They are Hebrew! Well yes and no. Don't ask me to explain that because I probably won't.

This is strange that you said that! You have me puzzled Also, Your statement " Him who they Pierced" We have all pierced him. But, it does tell me that maybe you don't think they are Individuals, or that they are a couple of Jews grafted back in through conversion. Now I would disagree with that. But you have said some things that tell me that your trying, but it is really in a vacum. You maybe more self taught but rely a little heavy in certain doctrine that I have read on the internet. Not that that is bad!

You said some things in previous post that might be baggage as in other places. The reason for my comments about the witnesses. It is in their death that those who worship the beast are wondering in Revelation when they behold the beast. Now you understand, I'm not saying I know the verses of scripture that point to their references in scripture. Many know those things.

What I know would be hard for many to swallow but it is the truth. And by the way Enoch and Elias are who the RC will be the two witnesses. But that does really say much either but it is the truth.

Peace and God bless

MDN

!
I used the term 'Hebrew' because it is easier than saying, 'natural Israel,' or 'Israel according to the flesh.' Plus, I could have used "the house of David," or "the inhabitants of Jerusalem," as does Jesus, speaking in Zechariah 12:10. In that verse it was the Lord who said, "They will look to me, (or on me) whom they pierced." The fact that he used "house of David," and "inhabitants of Jerusalem," references, the physical decendants of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.

The two witnesses could possibly be Enoch and Elijah, for, "It is appointed to man, once to die," but that is not something we know from the context. Sounds more like Elijah and Moses.

I think they could be New Testament Christians, (maybe you and I?) because lampstands are used in Rev. chapters 1, 2, and 3, meaning the churches. And I think olive trees recalls Romans 11, the branches grafted back in.

In Rev. 11, the two witnesses,('be my witnesses') are powerfully anointed by God, and seemingly invulnerable. They are killed, only after they have completed their jobs, by the beast that had come up from the abyss. The beast seems to have been proven more powerful, but the inhabitants of the 'land,' ('land' and 'earth' are the same word) while celebrating, are proved wrong, when God raises the two from the dead. The two witnesses will have triumphed over their enemies. The church will have triumphed over her enemies!

The beast that came up out of the abyss is first seen in Rev. 9, is an oppressive, tormenting human government. It is not the same beast as the beast out of the sea, in Rev. 13, whom the whole world (not earth) was in awe of, and worshipped. The beast in Rev. 13, is more subtle, unseen, working invisibly, but still influencing human governments, as evil principalities do.

God bless and keep you.

Ty

[maudman]

I

I think they could be New Testament Christians, (maybe you and I?) because lampstands are used in Rev. chapters 1, 2, and 3, meaning the churches. And I think olive trees recalls Romans 11, the branches grafted back in.

Ty

The two witness are already here, and they are already doing what they were prophsied to do! And nobody is getting it.

Its called the left hook of God.

MDN

[spauline]

The two witness are already here, and they are already doing what they were prophsied to do! And nobody is getting it.

Its called the left hook of God.

MDN


Are not the Two Witnesses Scripture and Tradition, which now lie dead in the streets, and over which the world celebrates their death? But in the Minor Chastisement, they will come back to life again!

[TyRockwell]

Are not the Two Witnesses Scripture and Tradition, which now lie dead in the streets, and over which the world celebrates their death? But in the Minor Chastisement, they will come back to life again!
Scripture and tradition? It couldn't be scripture, because the word of God is everliving, alive and powerful. Not one jot or tittle of the word will ever pass away.

Tradition? I think tradition is dangerous. It can replace following the leading of the Holy Spirit. Besides, aren't there wrong traditions?

I think the two witnesses are not allegorical, or symbolic, but actual persons. Allegory and symbolism can't call down fire from heaven, shut up the sky from raining, or strike the earth with plagues if anyone tries to harm them.

Peace and Truth.

Ty

[maudman]

Are not the Two Witnesses Scripture and Tradition, which now lie dead in the streets, and over which the world celebrates their death? But in the Minor Chastisement, they will come back to life again!

Hello Brother Spauline

No they are not! The scripture is remarkable precise on the two witnesses, and if I post the truth all here will wail in torment and mental anguish and many bouwles will burst.

The horror that is about to unfold before this world and the deception that is taking place is unlike in human history! Satan was cast out of heaven! Which will lead to a time of complete and utter darkness and to even mention the name of Christ will surely bring retribution. When CHrist said; """ when you will be hated for all nation for my name sake then the end will come!!!!"""" He means just that, and it will come in ONE HOUR!!!!!!!!!!!! WOe to those who are with CHild(pregnant with the seed of ANTI-Christ) and those that give suck in those days(Nuturing the seed of those ANTI-CHRIST). It is a dual truism both the literal and allegorical in these verses. And Catholics are Going to suffer right along with everybody else!!!!!! EXCEPT?????????

I'm not saying I believe I know who they are! I KNOW who they are!

MDN

[TyRockwell]

Get a grip, MDN, Satan was cast down to the earth, shortly after Jesus' resurrection, the Rev. 12:7-9 allusion you made, but he had lost his place in heaven because he has no authority. Jesus has all , I repeat, all authority, in heaven and on earth, and he told us, "THEREFORE (because of his authority), Go in my name." He delegated his authority to us. Peter said, "resist the devil and he will flee from you."
Right after Satan was cast down, the next verse, a voice in heaven said, "Now have come the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God, and the authority of his Anointed one... They overcame him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testamony; they did not love their lives so much as to shrink {in fear} in the face of death." AMP Jesus had told his disciples, "Behold, I confer on you a kingdom, just as my Father conferred one on me." Kingdom means "the Kings Dominion" Satan has been trying to kill off the church since he was cast down 1980 years ago, and its been tough for some, horrible for some, but most of us haven't been killed off in the long tribulation. We're doing just fine, thank you, overcoming. You give the spirit of antichrist too much fear to work with, and it could get horrible for you, too. "But the just will live because of their faith."

[spauline]

Scripture and tradition? It couldn't be scripture, because the word of God is everliving, alive and powerful. Not one jot or tittle of the word will ever pass away.

Tradition? I think tradition is dangerous. It can replace following the leading of the Holy Spirit. Besides, aren't there wrong traditions?

I think the two witnesses are not allegorical, or symbolic, but actual persons. Allegory and symbolism can't call down fire from heaven, shut up the sky from raining, or strike the earth with plagues if anyone tries to harm them.

Peace and Truth.

Ty

we need to be figurative. Ontologically, the Scriptures and Trad can't be killed. But they can be REGARED as dead by the majority of humans, that is, no longer binding. And this is the modern man. Of course, the Word of God can never be destroyed, for it is Living and Breathing, and imparts to us mortals the truth. But a time can come and has come, in which humanity, precisely because of their fallen nature and apostasy ("the beast from the abyss"), can consider the Living Word of GOd to be dead and irrelevant to their existence. And that is today.

But the breath of life shall come into them again when the **** hits the fan, when the Minor Chastisement commences. For then, humanity will not have the distractions it has, that is, Aerosmith, and pizza, and beer, and the superbowl. No, when humanity begins to reap the consequences of its apostasy, then they will RECONSIDER the voice of the Catholic Scripture and Tradition, they shall have "great fear" when the Glorious Witnesses stand upon their feet. And when it is through, the world will repent, and the Catholic Dogmas and Teachings that come from the very Scripture and Sacred Apostolic Tradition, shall be vindicated, and all the persons in the various SPIRITUAL foreign lands shall come home to ROME, just as the prophets were vindicated in the Exile and all the Jews were gathered from the literal foreign lands into the bosom of the literal Promised Land of Old.

And then there shall be peace, and the Witnesses will be assumed into heaven, just as the mystics prophesy that in the age of peace that follows the Minor Chas, the Catholic Church shall convene the greatest Ecumenical Council in her history, and many difficult Scripture verses will be dogmatically interpreted. The doctirnal development shall become complete, and humanity will taste of the fullest fruits of Christ's Redemption, such that when they apostatize the second time, they shall have no excuse. And it is only then, in the second darknees, that Antichrist shall come.

ps, if any man shall harm the witness of Scripture and Tradition, in this manner is he to be harmed spiritually. The inabilty to accept a teaching of Catholicism, or set of teachings, creates a partial impediment to that persons salvation, for it places a partial barrier between that person and God, even if they are not fully culpable. If I don't know that a glass is poison and I drink it, I have not committed the sin of suicide. But I will still be harmed by it. In a similar vein, the heretic who is not culpable for his error has not sinned, and yet his error still decreases his chances of attaining salvation.

[TyRockwell]

Some parts of the Revelation are figurative, some are literal. it takes actual revealed knowledge by God's Holy Spirit to discern and understand the truth. Traditions, no matter how old, are many of the false doctrines and deceptions that Jesus and the Apostles warned us about.

The "apostacy" Paul wrote about was Israel's general rejection of Jesus as Messiah. The Long Tribulation began in the days of the apostles, as Jesus told the twelve, who came to Him privately, saying, "Then they will hand you (the disciples) over to persecution." The apostacy of natural Israel, in rejecting Christ left them subject to no protection, "he that restrains will continue to do so, until he is taken out of the way." The restrainer was Michael the Archangel, "the great prince who protects your people." See Dan 12:1-2, which came to pass when the "time of wrath in fullfilment of all that has been written," Luke 22:21 as Rome destroyed the Temple and Jerusalem in 70 AD. John the Baptist told the Jews it would be in their lifetimes, "You brood of vipers, who told you to flee from the coming wrath," and, "the ax is already laid to the root of the tree."

Jesus spoke also of the end in our future, saying, "this good news of the king's dominion shall be proclaimed with demonstration in all the world, then the end will come." Until then he waits for God to "make his enemies a footstool for his feet." The Rev. 11 two witnesses are the time of the last being saved. "The first will be last, and the last will be first." The two witnesses demonstrate, with miracles, signs and wonders, to the people of Jerusalem, who will not believe unless they see miracles, that Jesus is Lord, the good news that the two witnesses, and Christians world wide have been telling.

Christians, who believe the Word of God will not be harmed, even if they drink deadly poison, Mark 16. The church are the people who will believe Jesus' words, and never see death, as he said. The church is not the holders of dead tradition, but of power, love and the mind of Christ.

Peace and Truth,

Ty

[spauline]

Some parts of the Revelation are figurative, some are literal. it takes actual revealed knowledge by God's Holy Spirit to discern and understand the truth. Traditions, no matter how old, are many of the false doctrines and deceptions that Jesus and the Apostles warned us about.

The "apostacy" Paul wrote about was Israel's general rejection of Jesus as Messiah. The Long Tribulation began in the days of the apostles, as Jesus told the twelve, who came to Him privately, saying, "Then they will hand you (the disciples) over to persecution." The apostacy of natural Israel, in rejecting Christ left them subject to no protection, "he that restrains will continue to do so, until he is taken out of the way." The restrainer was Michael the Archangel, "the great prince who protects your people." See Dan 12:1-2, which came to pass when the "time of wrath in fullfilment of all that has been written," Luke 22:21 as Rome destroyed the Temple and Jerusalem in 70 AD. John the Baptist told the Jews it would be in their lifetimes, "You brood of vipers, who told you to flee from the coming wrath," and, "the ax is already laid to the root of the tree."

Jesus spoke also of the end in our future, saying, "this good news of the king's dominion shall be proclaimed with demonstration in all the world, then the end will come." Until then he waits for God to "make his enemies a footstool for his feet." The Rev. 11 two witnesses are the time of the last being saved. "The first will be last, and the last will be first." The two witnesses demonstrate, with miracles, signs and wonders, to the people of Jerusalem, who will not believe unless they see miracles, that Jesus is Lord, the good news that the two witnesses, and Christians world wide have been telling.

Christians, who believe the Word of God will not be harmed, even if they drink deadly poison, Mark 16. The church are the people who will believe Jesus' words, and never see death, as he said. The church is not the holders of dead tradition, but of power, love and the mind of Christ.

Peace and Truth,

Ty


applying the apocalypse to AD 70 can be legit as ONE layer of meaning. But that is certainly not the only layer of meaning, much less the primary.

The Tradition of the Catholic Church is not dead or evil as you say, but is the Sacred Oral Word of God, which alone gives the completely true interp of the WRITTEN Word of God.

At a Baptist college, there were two deans. One believed you could lose your salvation, the other didn't. They can't both be right. This is obviously one of the essential questions of faith. I could probably amass at least 10 primary ways that Protestants answer this question and its implications. Obviously, those who interpret it wrongly are in a situation that at a bare minimum wounds their relationship with God and diminishes their chances of being saved.

Hence, I reiterate: even though a heretic may be innocen of his ignorance and/or error, his deficiencies in matters of doctrine are dangerous, and they partiallly limit his chances of being saved.

The Holy Spirit gives graces to all who seek His Truth, including Protestants. But the collection of heretics who only trust Scripture by that intrinsic fact can never fully understand all of God's Truth, seeing as they have not the Oral Tradition, mediated through the Pope and Bishops, that gives the completely true interp of the Bible. Yes, the Holy Spirit sends graces to those Protestants who seek him, and with it they can find SOME truth, even alot. But the voice of God in actual grace is, under normal circumstances, IMPLICIT, rather than EXPLICITLY. The Holy Spirit only speaks EXPLICITLY through the Magisterium of the Catholic Church. Otherwise, as for example in the case of innocent heretics, the voice is but IMPLICIT, and can therefore be misinterpreted by the subjective experience, psyche, and intellect of the heretic, such that explicit errors can pollute it. If the pollution is not the fault of the heretic, then God will not condemn the heretic for his errors, but, like I said, his error is a minor poison that could possibly cause him to lose out in the end.

The less we understand about a person, the less we can love them. The less means we have to help us love the person, the less we are able to love them. Therefore, the less you know about God's truth and understand it, the less you are able to love him and serve him. And the less grace you have available to help you love him, the less you are able to love Him.

Catholics alone have everything available to them that God wills for all humanity: They have the Pope, the Bishops, the Scrirptures, and Reason. And they have all Seven Sacraments. Protestants have only the Scriptures, and many times do not even live according to reason, and they can at best have only Baptism and Marriage. They can never have Confession, Eucharist, Confirmation, Holy Orders, or the Anointing of the Sick while they remain heretics. Therefore, Protestants do not have as much potential to understand and know God and love him, seeing as they have less truth, some errors, and less grace to work with.

Hence, I reiterate: the Two Witnesses are Scripture and Sacred Tradition. Ye Protestants are not the beast from the abyss by any stretch, but you are a major category of attack that harms the Sacred Tradition, and by of implication, some of Scripture.

[TyRockwell]

applying the apocalypse to AD 70 can be legit as ONE layer of meaning. But that is certainly not the only layer of meaning, much less the primary.

The Tradition of the Catholic Church is not dead or evil as you say, but is the Sacred Oral Word of God, which alone gives the completely true interp of the WRITTEN Word of God.

At a Baptist college, there were two deans. One believed you could lose your salvation, the other didn't. They can't both be right. This is obviously one of the essential questions of faith. I could probably amass at least 10 primary ways that Protestants answer this question and its implications. Obviously, those who interpret it wrongly are in a situation that at a bare minimum wounds their relationship with God and diminishes their chances of being saved.

Hence, I reiterate: even though a heretic may be innocen of his ignorance and/or error, his deficiencies in matters of doctrine are dangerous, and they partiallly limit his chances of being saved.

The Holy Spirit gives graces to all who seek His Truth, including Protestants. But the collection of heretics who only trust Scripture by that intrinsic fact can never fully understand all of God's Truth, seeing as they have not the Oral Tradition, mediated through the Pope and Bishops, that gives the completely true interp of the Bible. Yes, the Holy Spirit sends graces to those Protestants who seek him, and with it they can find SOME truth, even alot. But the voice of God in actual grace is, under normal circumstances, IMPLICIT, rather than EXPLICITLY. The Holy Spirit only speaks EXPLICITLY through the Magisterium of the Catholic Church. Otherwise, as for example in the case of innocent heretics, the voice is but IMPLICIT, and can therefore be misinterpreted by the subjective experience, psyche, and intellect of the heretic, such that explicit errors can pollute it. If the pollution is not the fault of the heretic, then God will not condemn the heretic for his errors, but, like I said, his error is a minor poison that could possibly cause him to lose out in the end.

The less we understand about a person, the less we can love them. The less means we have to help us love the person, the less we are able to love them. Therefore, the less you know about God's truth and understand it, the less you are able to love him and serve him. And the less grace you have available to help you love him, the less you are able to love Him.

Catholics alone have everything available to them that God wills for all humanity: They have the Pope, the Bishops, the Scrirptures, and Reason. And they have all Seven Sacraments. Protestants have only the Scriptures, and many times do not even live according to reason, and they can at best have only Baptism and Marriage. They can never have Confession, Eucharist, Confirmation, Holy Orders, or the Anointing of the Sick while they remain heretics. Therefore, Protestants do not have as much potential to understand and know God and love him, seeing as they have less truth, some errors, and less grace to work with.

Hence, I reiterate: the Two Witnesses are Scripture and Sacred Tradition. Ye Protestants are not the beast from the abyss by any stretch, but you are a major category of attack that harms the Sacred Tradition, and by of implication, some of Scripture.
I have heard that you people do what you have just done. I had hoped it was not true. Paul said, "Did the scripture originate with you?" I pose that same question to you. The answer is, 'no', of course. The control and exclusivity you espouse are not found in scripture. I am sure to post scriptural references for the things I write. Your long-winded response had not one tiny bit of Bible in it, nor any justification for the positions you hold.

Just to have had a tradition for a long, long time does not make it right, and no one made you God. Please do not assume you are the only ones having the ability to receive instruction or revealed knowledge from the Holy Spirit. "All your children will be taught of the Lord." Isaiah 54, that includes me. I don't have to have your permission to be saved, participate in communion, nor tell the good news of Jesus Christ. "It is for freedom that you have been made free."

This whole hierarchy you people have set up is UNBIBLICAL. The body of believers has had converts before and after your traditions were pontificated. It is sad that you are so blinded by ritual and tradition that you can't see that others know the life, the joy and the love that you claim you alone know. Paul said, "You have not received a spirit of bondage again to fear, but of power, and love and a sound mind." I am a bondservant to Jesus, and a Spirit born new creation in Christ. I did not have to apply to the Catholic church to receive the Spirit of life, the Spirit of wisdom, of knowledge and the Spirit of Truth. And no matter how high an order you perceive yourself to be, you can't take away what you didn't give.

I know I am saved. "For everyone who calls upon the name of the Lord will be saved." I know, on the authority of scripture, that because I believe that "Jesus is Lord, and God has raised him from the dead, then I am saved." Romans 10:9-10

I have the Holy Spirit. More than that, the Holy Spirit has me. The writings of the New Testament were addressed to regular people, not to an ecclessiastic board of directors. All the people were encouraged to hear and to read the gospels and the epistles. This was 300 to 350 years before your denomination was organized, and then, just as now, you want people to believe they have to go through you to be right with God, hear from God, or be able to follow God. This is clearly contrary to scripture.

I am secure in my relationship to God through Jesus, and it is confirmed by him to me, not only by the Word of God, but by the reality of what he does, and has done in my life. His power is manifest in me. He answers my prayers. I love Him, and He loves me.

Please understand. I am not against you, but I am your brother, in Christ, whether you approve of my credentials or not. You need to be sure that you have a trust, reliance and loyalty to Jesus and his word, so that you can be saved, too, and be my brother, in Christ. This is not only Implicitly, but Explicitly True. The Oral Tradition is not Holy Word of God. The two witnesses are two real people, probably not Catholics, that call down fire, shut up the sky, and send plagues upon anyone wanting to harm them. Allegory can only do that allegorically, not in reality.

[maudman]

Get a grip, MDN, Satan was cast down to the earth, shortly after Jesus' resurrection, the Rev. 12:7-9 allusion you made, but he had lost his place in heaven because he has no authority. Jesus has all , I repeat, all authority, in heaven and on earth, and he told us, "THEREFORE (because of his authority), Go in my name." He delegated his authority to us. Peter said, "resist the devil and he will flee from you."
Right after Satan was cast down, the next verse, a voice in heaven said, "Now have come the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God, and the authority of his Anointed one... They overcame him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testamony; they did not love their lives so much as to shrink {in fear} in the face of death." AMP Jesus had told his disciples, "Behold, I confer on you a kingdom, just as my Father conferred one on me." Kingdom means "the Kings Dominion" Satan has been trying to kill off the church since he was cast down 1980 years ago, and its been tough for some, horrible for some, but most of us haven't been killed off in the long tribulation. We're doing just fine, thank you, overcoming. You give the spirit of antichrist too much fear to work with, and it could get horrible for you, too. "But the just will live because of their faith."

Calm Down? If the Good man would have known what hour the thief comes wouldn't suffered his house to be broken.

Satan was going to transform himself into an Angel Of light. That is why Christ said take take heed that you be not decieved " many will come in My name(christ) and decieve the many. Many coming in his name and deicieving. The entire point of watching and knowing what was happening.

The two witness are going to expose he that is anti Christ and those apostate Christians whoo are decieving and when that happens and the way it will happen you will surly be wondering.

MDN

[maudman]

The two witnesses won't even be seen as Christian and if you understood the scripture you wouldn't be indulging yourselves in vain imaginations.

[TyRockwell]

Calm Down? If the Good man would have known what hour the thief comes wouldn't suffered his house to be broken.

Satan was going to transform himself into an Angel Of light. That is why Christ said take take heed that you be not decieved " many will come in My name(christ) and decieve the many. Many coming in his name and deicieving. The entire point of watching and knowing what was happening.

The two witness are going to expose he that is anti Christ and those apostate Christians whoo are decieving and when that happens and the way it will happen you will surly be wondering.

MDN
There you go again! You spout apostacy in interpretations others see without considering the truths I posted. Deceptions are not a new thing. They were being introduced in the times of the New Testament. Paul said that we are not in darkness so that we will not be aware of the times and season of Jesus' return.

Apostacy is not what you decide it is. It is not having a difference with any large exclusivist branch of the body of Christ. Apostacy has to do with what fleshly Israel did in denying the Messiah. Christians are by definition people who accept the Messiah, Jesus, and willingly follow his Lordship. Apostacy is not failing to follow men in liturgical, hierarchical, pontifical, self will in thinking of themselves more highly than they ought.

It is not apostacy to lay hands on the sick, anoint, heal, preach the good news of salvation and the good news of the kingdom outside of the dominating control of the so-called Mother Church. The healings, miracles, and changed lives are evidence in themselves of the affirmation of God. Are we to seek men's approval, or God's?

The church as a whole, all believers, will be far closer to attaining the "unity of the faith" Eph. 4:13, when certain large organized groups stop trying to exclude others, calling them, 'heretics,' when they belive in the same deity of Christ, and the authority of Scripture and the power and teaching work of the Holy Spirit, seen in the lives and ministries of millions, not necessarily having a relationship with the pope. We have a relationship with Jesus, God, and the Holy Spirit that you absolutely refuse to acknowledge, in the face of all evidence that we do!

Peace and Truth
Ty

[TyRockwell]

The two witnesses won't even be seen as Christian and if you understood the scripture you wouldn't be indulging yourselves in vain imaginations.
I understand the scriptures. Right standing with God is a free gift to all and upon all who believe. Many, many, many Christians will recognize the two witnesses as brothers in the Lord, and will be adding to their faith through prayers and spiritual warfare, pulling down demonic strongholds, through the power of agreement and the unity of the faith. Then the church will be mature.

I repeat, what I've told you before from Peter's own pen, by the Spirit of the Lord. I am not Catholic, Peter was not a Catholic, yet I am a king and a priest, as are all who put their trust in Jesus.

You understand only what you are told you have to accept in order to remain in good standing with your peers. If you don't accept other believers who are not of your fold, then you do not love God, who loves us, who are born of his love into the Truth, Who is Jesus.

Peace and Truth,
Ty

[maudman]

There you go again! You spout apostacy in interpretations others see without considering the truths I posted. Deceptions are not a new thing. They were being introduced in the times of the New Testament. Paul said that we are not in darkness so that we will not be aware of the times and season of Jesus' return.

Apostacy is not what you decide it is. It is not having a difference with any large exclusivist branch of the body of Christ. Apostacy has to do with what fleshly Israel did in denying the Messiah. Christians are by definition people who accept the Messiah, Jesus, and willingly follow his Lordship. Apostacy is not failing to follow men in liturgical, hierarchical, pontifical, self will in thinking of themselves more highly than they ought.

It is not apostacy to lay hands on the sick, anoint, heal, preach the good news of salvation and the good news of the kingdom outside of the dominating control of the so-called Mother Church. The healings, miracles, and changed lives are evidence in themselves of the affirmation of God. Are we to seek men's approval, or God's?

The church as a whole, all believers, will be far closer to attaining the "unity of the faith" Eph. 4:13, when certain large organized groups stop trying to exclude others, calling them, 'heretics,' when they belive in the same deity of Christ, and the authority of Scripture and the power and teaching work of the Holy Spirit, seen in the lives and ministries of millions, not necessarily having a relationship with the pope. We have a relationship with Jesus, God, and the Holy Spirit that you absolutely refuse to acknowledge, in the face of all evidence that we do!

Peace and Truth
Ty

TY

Apostacy

He exhorts them to stand to the faith first delivered to them and to beware of heretics.

1 Jude, the servant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James: to them that are beloved in God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ, and called. 2 Mercy unto you, and peace, and charity be fulfilled. 3 Dearly beloved, taking all care to write unto you concerning your common salvation, I was under a necessity to write unto you: to beseech you to contend earnestly for the faith once delivered to the saints. 4 For certain men are secretly entered in, (who were written of long ago unto this judgment,) ungodly men, turning the grace of our Lord God into riotousness, and denying the only sovereign Ruler, and our Lord Jesus Christ. 5 I will therefore admonish you, though ye once knew all things, that Jesus, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, did afterwards destroy them that believed not:

6 And the angels who kept not their principality, but forsook their own habitation, he hath reserved under darkness in everlasting chains, unto the judgment of the great day. 7 As Sodom and Gomorrha, and the neighbouring cities, in like manner, having given themselves to fornication, and going after other flesh, were made an example, suffering the punishment of eternal fire. 8 In like manner these men also defile the flesh, and despise dominion, and blaspheme majesty. 9 When Michael the archangel, disputing with the devil, contended about the body of Moses, he durst not bring against him the judgment of railing speech, but said: The Lord command thee. 10 But these men blaspheme whatever things they know not: and what things soever they naturally know, like dumb beasts, in these they are corrupted.

6 "Principality"... That is, the state in which they were first created, their original dignity.

8 "Blaspheme majesty"... Speak evil of them that are in dignity; and even utter blasphemies against the divine majesty.

9 "Contended about the body"... This contention, which is no where else mentioned in holy writ, was originally known by revelation, and transmitted by tradition. It is thought the occasion of it was, that the devil would have had the body buried in such a place and manner, as to be worshipped by the Jews with divine honours.

9 "Command thee"... or rebuke thee.

11 Woe unto them, for they have gone in the way of Cain: and after the error of Balaam they have for reward poured out themselves, and have perished in the contradiction of Core. 12 These are spots in their banquets, feasting together without fear, feeding themselves, clouds without water, which are carried about by winds, trees of the autumn, unfruitful, twice dead, plucked up by the roots, 13 Raging waves of the sea, foaming out their own confusion; wandering stars, to whom the storm of darkness is reserved for ever. 14 Now of these Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied, saying: Behold, the Lord cometh with thousands of his saints, 15 To execute judgment upon all, and to reprove all the ungodly for all the works of their ungodliness, whereby they have done ungodly, and of all the hard things which ungodly sinners have spoken against God.

11 "Gone in the way"... Heretics follow the way of Cain, by murdering the souls of their brethren; the way of Balaam, by putting a scandal before the people of God, for their own private ends; and the way of Core or Korah, by their opposition to the church governors of divine appointment.

14 "Prophesied"... This prophecy was either known by tradition, or from some book that is since lost.

16 These are murmurers, full of complaints, walking according to their own desires, and their mouth speaketh proud things, admiring persons for gain's sake. 17 But you, my dearly beloved, be mindful of the words which have been spoken before by the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ, 18 Who told you, that in the last time there should come mockers, walking according to their own desires in ungodlinesses. 19 These are they, who separate themselves, sensual men, having not the Spirit. 20 But you, my beloved, building yourselves upon your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost,

17 "But you, my dearly beloved, be mindful"... He now exhorts the faithful to remain steadfast in the belief and practice of what they had heard from the apostles, who had also foretold that in aftertimes (lit. in the last time) there should be false teachers, scoffing and ridiculing all revealed truths, abandoning themselves to their passions and lusts; who separate themselves from the Catholic communion by heresies and schisms. Sensual men, carried away and enslaved by the pleasures of the senses.

20 "Building yourselves upon your most holy faith"... Raising by your actions, a spiritual building, founded, 1 st, upon faith; 2 d, on the love of God; 3 d, upon hope, whilst you are waiting for the mercies of God, and the reward of eternal life; 4 th, joined with the great duty of prayer.

21 Keep yourselves in the love of God, waiting for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ, unto life everlasting. 22 And some indeed reprove, being judged: 23 But others save, pulling them out of the fire. And on others have mercy, in fear, hating also the spotted garment which is carnal. 24 Now to him who is able to preserve you without sin, and to present you spotless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy, in the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, 25 To the only God our Saviour through Jesus Christ our Lord, be glory and magnificence, empire and power, before all ages, and now, and for all ages of ages. Amen.

22 "Reprove, being judged"... He gives them another instruction to practice charity in endeavouring to convert their neighbour, where they will meet with three sorts of persons: 1 st, With persons obstinate in their errors and sins; these may be said to be already judged and condemned; they are to be sharply reprehended, reproved, and if possible convinced of their error. 2 d, As to others you must endeavour to save them, by pulling them, as it were, out of the fire, from the ruin they stand in great danger of. 3 d, You must have mercy on others in fear, when you see them through ignorance of frailty, in danger of being drawn into the snares of these heretics; with these you must deal more gently and mildly, with a charitable compassion, hating always, and teaching others to hate the carnal garment which is spotted, their sensual and corrupt manners, that defile both the soul and body.

24 "Now to him"... St. Jude concludes his epistle with this doxology of praising God, and praying to the only God our Saviour, which may either signify God the Father, or God as equally agreeing to all the three persons, who are equally the cause of Christ's incarnation, and man's salvation, through Jesus Christ our Lord, who, being God from eternity, took upon him our human nature, that he might become our Redeemer.


Peace and GodBless
MDN

[TyRockwell]

MDM, Like I said, I follow the faith once and for all delivered to the saints, which the RCC has no copyright on, and which was delivered to the saints long before Constatine opened the Bottomless Pit and released all those formerly bound doctrines of Judaism combined with civil government, adopting a Pharisee-ic, Judaic Chief priestly teaching of legalism, and the equally evil Oral Traditions. It has become evident that the heretics are those that think the faith was delivered to the RCC.

Peace and Truth

Ty

[maudman]

MDM, Like I said, I follow the faith once and for all delivered to the saints, which the RCC has no copyright on, and which was delivered to the saints long before Constatine opened the Bottomless Pit and released all those formerly bound doctrines of Judaism combined with civil government, adopting a Pharisee-ic, Judaic Chief priestly teaching of legalism, and the equally evil Oral Traditions. It has become evident that the heretics are those that think the faith was delivered to the RCC.

Peace and Truth

Ty

Oh TY How I love this Post. Thy Spirit is now unvailed for all to see and now thy Nakedness shows.

You see """Spauline"""" how when the spirit pushed the things that Spew Forth. How some can say things to find favor, but underneath they have another agenda. Nice swelling words, but they cast a snare. Tares sown in the spirit that causes many to stumble. See how cleaver it began? oh I don't hate Catholics, I'm not like that and then I hate Just about everything you stand for. You see """"spauline"""" from the previous pos