Can we trust our thoughts

[Trout]

I watch the neighbor kid leave his house at 7am Monday through Friday. He rides his bike past my house, leans it up on a power pole and waits for the school bus to pick him up. He gets on the bus about 7:15. He's gone all day. He doesn't exit the bus and ride his bike past my house until about 4:15. He then -his dad told me- has about an hour of homework that he has to get done before school the following day.

Simple math tells me that he's in government care 9 hours including the consumption of a government supplied meal.

The time spent in government schools is used teaching government ideas, history that the government approves and government approved social ideals.

Ther are approximately 180 days in the school year multiplied by 9 hours daily comes out to 1620 hours yearly spent learning what the government wants to teach it's up and coming citizenry.

It begins very early. 5 years old for most. Those who graduate high school do so when they're 18 or so. That's 13 years of government thought instilled in people during their most formative time.

Needless to say, the government creates minds and social paradigms that conform with government thought.

I'm not immune from the above system although I finished high school via homeschool from grade 10.

It's no surprise to me that I love America and believe in its systems for the most part.

But as I ponder the system, I can't help but think it's tilted toward producing citizens that are sympathetic to its process and easily controlled.

Most of the intellectual ideas I have came from a government textbook via a government agent. Most of it I'm sure is quite accurate, but I cannot help but ponder the idea that my thoughts are biased toward certain ideas and societal norms. The underlying question is:

Can my (or yours if you grew up through government schools) thoughts be trusted?

At this point in the game my answer is both yes and no.

Thoughts?

[rogue06]

I'm reporting to you to our beloved government officials

[Trout]

I'm reporting to you to our beloved government officials

Trust me. They know where I live.

[rogue06]

Trust me. They know where I live.

Ever request a FOIA search of any files? Mine was thicker than your thumb. They had good cause though.

[Carrikature]

I'd say it's subject dependent, for starters. Math, sciences, writing, foreign languages...even the economics I had isn't subject to much corruption. History is open to it, without a doubt, but the information taught in school is so sparse compared to available data that you almost can't be said to know anything anyway.

I think there are two important questions that need to be asked before yours can be answered. What else have you learned, and where did you learn it?

[Trout]

I'd say it's subject dependent, for starters. Math, sciences, writing, foreign languages...even the economics I had isn't subject to much corruption. History is open to it, without a doubt, but the information taught in school is so sparse compared to available data that you almost can't be said to know anything anyway.

But even our ability to research various topics has been influenced by our duration in government schooling.

I think there are two important questions that need to be asked before yours can be answered. What else have you learned, and where did you learn it?

Both good questions.

I learned in school that brontosauras was real.
I learned on the Internet that it's a fake.

I wonder what else I hold that's incorrect?

I wonder if those incorrect holdings inform other ideas?

[shunyadragon]

I watch the neighbor kid leave his house at 7am Monday through Friday. He rides his bike past my house, leans it up on a power pole and waits for the school bus to pick him up. He gets on the bus about 7:15. He's gone all day. He doesn't exit the bus and ride his bike past my house until about 4:15. He then -his dad told me- has about an hour of homework that he has to get done before school the following day.

Simple math tells me that he's in government care 9 hours including the consumption of a government supplied meal.

The time spent in government schools is used teaching government ideas, history that the government approves and government approved social ideals.

Ther are approximately 180 days in the school year multiplied by 9 hours daily comes out to 1620 hours yearly spent learning what the government wants to teach it's up and coming citizenry.

It begins very early. 5 years old for most. Those who graduate high school do so when they're 18 or so. That's 13 years of government thought instilled in people during their most formative time.

Needless to say, the government creates minds and social paradigms that conform with government thought.

I'm not immune from the above system although I finished high school via homeschool from grade 10.

It's no surprise to me that I love America and believe in its systems for the most part.

But as I ponder the system, I can't help but think it's tilted toward producing citizens that are sympathetic to its process and easily controlled.

Most of the intellectual ideas I have came from a government textbook via a government agent. Most of it I'm sure is quite accurate, but I cannot help but ponder the idea that my thoughts are biased toward certain ideas and societal norms. The underlying question is:

Can my (or yours if you grew up through government schools) thoughts be trusted?

At this point in the game my answer is both yes and no.

Thoughts?

Your anecdotal subjective thoughts are open to question.

As far as government control, remember to wear your aluminum foil suit.

When it comes to science, you need not trust your thoughts, or questionable internet sites. There are reliable sites such as the Smithsonian. You can go to museums and see dinosaur fossils, and go to universities to study the actual fossils and rocks in place like I did. The science can be objectively verified by scientific methods without your aluminum foil suit.

[Meh Gerbil]

Your anecdotal subjective thoughts are open to question.

As far as government control, remember to wear your aluminum foil suit.

When it comes to science, you need not trust your thoughts, or questionable internet sites. There are reliable sites such as the Smithsonian. You can go to museums and see dinosaur fossils, and go to universities to study the actual fossils and rocks in place like I did. The science can be objectively verified by scientific methods without your aluminum foil suit.

Were you educated in a government funded school?

[Trout]

Your anecdotal subjective thoughts are open to question.

As far as government control, remember to wear your aluminum foil suit.

When it comes to science, you need not trust your thoughts, or questionable internet sites. There are reliable sites such as the Smithsonian. You can go to museums and see dinosaur fossils, and go to universities to study the actual fossils and rocks in place like I did. The science can be objectively verified by scientific methods without your aluminum foil suit.

I knew this thread would unearth at least one hysterical government sycophant.

These museums you speak of, are they the ones that hosted brontosauras remains?

[Carrikature]

As far as government control, remember to wear your aluminum foil suit.

I'm so glad you brought this up:

Source: Study

Among a fringe community of paranoids, aluminum helmets serve as the protective measure of choice against invasive radio signals. We investigate the efficacy of three aluminum helmet designs on a sample group of four individuals. Using a $250,000 network analyser, we find that although on average all helmets attenuate invasive radio frequencies in either directions (either emanating from an outside source, or emanating from the cranium of the subject), certain frequencies are in fact greatly amplified. These amplified frequencies coincide with radio bands reserved for government use according to the Federal Communication Commission (FCC). Statistical evidence suggests the use of helmets may in fact enhance the government's invasive abilities. We speculate that the government may in fact have started the helmet craze for this reason

© Copyright Original Source

[shunyadragon]

Were you educated in a government funded school?

Better put on you aluminum foil suit with Trout.

[Carrikature]

But even our ability to research various topics has been influenced by our duration in government schooling.

I agree. Has it been influenced to a biased outcome, though? I'm not so sure.

Both good questions.

I learned in school that brontosauras was real.
I learned on the Internet that it's a fake.

I wonder what else I hold that's incorrect?

I wonder if those incorrect holdings inform other ideas?

I'm of a rare school that believes the things we can actually know effectively stops at solipsism. Everything beyond that should be held not as knowledge but at varying levels of surety. Some incorrect holdings no doubt inform other ideas. The reality of a brontosaurus is probably not one of them.

However, I took your OP to be focused more on things the government wants us to believe. Is there reason to suspect everything as government influenced? Maybe, particularly if you're fond of 1984. Social paradigms should be in question, yes. Certainly values placed on specific fields (math and science, for example) should be suspect. The efficacy of our governmental system is another big one. One wouldn't think that everything is subject to influence, or at least I wouldn't. Some things must be true outside of our government school or interaction with foreigners would be greatly impaired. Witness N. Korea where such interaction is prevented. Those in charge know their claims can't stand up to scrutiny, so they restrict access to outside information. We don't have that here.

[rogue06]

[Trout]

I agree. Has it been influenced to a biased outcome, though? I'm not so sure.

I think there are areas of bias but those I can recall currently are primarily historical. I think of the Cherokee extraction and manifest destiny as two where our government has bent historical data in order to justify its end. It would be much harder -perhaps not impossible- to do so with math or chemistry.

I'm of a rare school that believes the things we can actually know effectively stops at solipsism. Everything beyond that should be held not as knowledge but at varying levels of surety.

Interesting. If I may ask, do you mean specifically metaphysical solipsism?

Some incorrect holdings no doubt inform other ideas. The reality of a brontosaurus is probably not one of them.

The brontosauras issue speaks of my willingness to trust information given me by well meaning government agents. I would never have dreamed to doubt them or their material. I was young and quite impressionable.

However, I took your OP to be focused more on things the government wants us to believe.

Maybe we're more sympathetic toward info issued by our government? Perhaps it's easier for us to believe that there are WMD's in Iraq and that is our solemn moral duty to rid the world of such a danger?

Is there reason to suspect everything as government influenced? Maybe, particularly if you're fond of 1984. Social paradigms should be in question, yes. Certainly values placed on specific fields (math and science, for example) should be suspect. The efficacy of our governmental system is another big one. One wouldn't think that everything is subject to influence, or at least I wouldn't. Some things must be true outside of our government school or interaction with foreigners would be greatly impaired. Witness N. Korea where such interaction is prevented. Those in charge know their claims can't stand up to scrutiny, so they restrict access to outside information. We don't have that here.

Good points. I wonder if what we're hearing about north Korea is true? I've been made to think that they're the next bad guy we need to rein in.

I'm always shocked when every country in the world doesn't join us in our various police actions around the globe. Perhaps they have or process information differently than do we? Perhaps our interactions are colored in some way?

[Meh Gerbil]

Better put on you aluminum foil suit with Trout.

Because the idea that government run schools would use that influence to strengthen itself is rare and almost no examples of such manipulation exist?
I'm pretty sure I could come up with two dozen countries where this is happening even as we speak.

Given that I could prove this is actually common I wonder why you'd view America as an exception.
My guess it has something to do with the brain washing you received as child.

You know what I mean:

I pledge allegiance to the flag,
of the United States of America...

If you'll turn over your address to Trout and myself we'll stage an intervention.
You'll need to provide one package of adult diapers.