spauline
October 22nd 2007, 03:31 AM
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A correction on whether I am being cyclic.
It has been suggested that I am being purely “cyclic”, that is mere idealism, in the sense that, the Church just goes through trial, tribulation, and victory over and over again a zillion times, and the apocalypse is just a parable of that. That interpretation is legit as a layer of meaning, but that is NOT my primary focus. I see Salvation History as a LINEAR process from beginning to end, such that there is a true progression and process to the Redemption of humanity. At any Redemptive phase, humanity has experienced more of God's Truth and Redemption than at any previous time.
However, there are two big ways in which I see history repeats itself. The first would be the new fulfilling the old, so that three primary ages of the entire Jewish history are repeated for the Gentiles in the age of the Church. But the Jews and Gentiles each go through these big three stages ONLY ONCE, not over and over, that is, in the bigger picture.
The only other thing that is cyclic is the first and last [eighth] stages of all salvation history, these being likened to the first and last notes of a key in music. In any scale of a key in music, there are only seven notes. When you reach the eighth note, you are back to the first, only one octave higher. Hence, music is cyclic. But whereas in music you could theoretically traverse an innumerable number of "octaves", I am saying something far more definite, and therefore, quite bold: humanity shall only traverse ONE musical scale of exactly eight notes. That is, salvation history is not fifteen notes, twenty-two notes, or even twenty-nine notes. It is EIGHT NOTES, no more, no less.
But from different angles, there are two scales to consider, the major and the minor. Major is happy, minor is sad, just as there are two paths in life, the path to joy with God forever, or the path to the eternal tragedy of hell. There is light and there is darkness. Therefore, salvation history is eight days and only eight days. Each day begins with darkness and ends with light. Therefore, there are two ways to look at salvation history: as eight successions of darkness ("eight kings of the beast") or as eight successions of light (eight days of creation, eight redemptive actions of God).
And here is why day eight returns us to day one: In day one, the Fall reigns throughout humanity. Only Noah and his small family are just. The rest of humanity is wicked. So it is in the eighth day as well: in the times of the great apostasy, at the end of the world, the vast majority of the Gentiles are wicked. Only a remant of the Gentiles and the fuller number of Jews have faith in Christ and are righteous. Therefore, days one and eight are the same in that most of humanity is wicked and in need of judgement. In both days, the fallen nature of man is the prevailing force in human history.
And therefore, in both days, the world that then exists must be "destroyed." But herein is the difference between them: they are an octave apart, and what are the seven notes that span the octave's gap? Those notes represent the REDEMPTION of humanity.
Hence, in day one, humanity for the most part has not yet experienced any major redemption from God. Therefore, in day one, whereas the fall reigns, it is yet REDEEMABLE. Hence, the destruction of the world in day one is a REDEMPTIVE action, and hence, the WATERS of the Flood, which prefigure Baptism. In the Flood, God is not pouring out conclusive wrath on humanity, but is cleansing the earth of sin. He is BEGINNING the Redemption of the world. Therefore, the new world that arises from the Flood is a world that is beginning to be redeemed.
But now what about day eight? In day eight, the world has already been redeemed to its maximal potential within human history. For in the night of the seventh day, humanity apostatized from the Gospel because of the chaos and scandal of religious conflict. Because the disciples had become NOT "one", the world was NOT "able to believe." So then God abandoned humanity into the consequences of its apostasy. But when those consequences came, humanity repented, for it was shown, in an epic catastrophe, its various darknesses for what they were, and, as a consequence, the light of the Catholic Church shown gloriously and healingly in that darkness. And so all the religious wounds were healed, all the children from the various foreign spiritual lands came home to Rome, and there was a great peace. The People of God rested from the six days of work against sin, and humanity walked with God more or less perfectly, just as the individual saint walks with God in the unitive phase.
Therefore ,when the sun sets in the eighth day, when humanity turns away from God even AFTER the sabbath like rest of the seventh day, there is nothing more God can do for the world. Behold, there is nothing that God can give to humanity in this age that exceeds Catholicism. Hence, humanity casting aside Catholicism the final time, there can be no further Redemption of humanity. The Redemption of humanity WITHIN this old creation is made COMPLETE in the seventh day.
Consequently, the world must be destroyed in the eighth day, but this time by FIRE, seeing as humanity is WITHOUT excuse. They cannot tell God that they did not know the way, nor the consequences of iniquity. No, in the Minor Chastisement, the world almost came to an end because of their iniquity. They were shown the full fruits of the darkness. But even more so, the world did NOT end then. For God had MERCY on the Gentiles in that age, even as He had done so on the Jews after the Exile. For just as the Jews were forgiven and restored to the Old Covenant after the Exile, so God restored the Gentiles to the New, and he gave humanity, if it were even possible, the BEST of both worlds. Finally, there was a reconciliation between science and faith. Therefore, in the seventh day, the Holy Spirit COMPLETED His sanctifying of the human race.
But so then when humanity apostatizes AGAIN, even after the Seventh day, they are BLASPHEMING the Holy Spirit historically. They are committing an unforgivable insult against God, saying that His entire plan was a lie, a waste. Therefore, humanity is incurable and unforgivable. For if the fullness of God's Redemption was not enough, nothing will be enough (see Heb 6) . Therefore, in day Eight, the world is destroyed by FIRE, it is judged, it is condemned..
And then is ushered in the world that will never end, the New, Everlasting Creation.
See 2 Peter 3: for with the Lord, a day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as a day. The world that then existed was destroyed by water, the present world is reserved for fire.
So yes there is a BIG BIG cyclic essence, in that day eight brings us back to day one. But the notes are nevertheless different in terms of succession, seeing as seven steps separate them.
And the Jewish History repeats with the Gentiles. But in the end, there are eight and only eight notes. Five in the Old Times, and Three in the New.
A correction on whether I am being cyclic.
It has been suggested that I am being purely “cyclic”, that is mere idealism, in the sense that, the Church just goes through trial, tribulation, and victory over and over again a zillion times, and the apocalypse is just a parable of that. That interpretation is legit as a layer of meaning, but that is NOT my primary focus. I see Salvation History as a LINEAR process from beginning to end, such that there is a true progression and process to the Redemption of humanity. At any Redemptive phase, humanity has experienced more of God's Truth and Redemption than at any previous time.
However, there are two big ways in which I see history repeats itself. The first would be the new fulfilling the old, so that three primary ages of the entire Jewish history are repeated for the Gentiles in the age of the Church. But the Jews and Gentiles each go through these big three stages ONLY ONCE, not over and over, that is, in the bigger picture.
The only other thing that is cyclic is the first and last [eighth] stages of all salvation history, these being likened to the first and last notes of a key in music. In any scale of a key in music, there are only seven notes. When you reach the eighth note, you are back to the first, only one octave higher. Hence, music is cyclic. But whereas in music you could theoretically traverse an innumerable number of "octaves", I am saying something far more definite, and therefore, quite bold: humanity shall only traverse ONE musical scale of exactly eight notes. That is, salvation history is not fifteen notes, twenty-two notes, or even twenty-nine notes. It is EIGHT NOTES, no more, no less.
But from different angles, there are two scales to consider, the major and the minor. Major is happy, minor is sad, just as there are two paths in life, the path to joy with God forever, or the path to the eternal tragedy of hell. There is light and there is darkness. Therefore, salvation history is eight days and only eight days. Each day begins with darkness and ends with light. Therefore, there are two ways to look at salvation history: as eight successions of darkness ("eight kings of the beast") or as eight successions of light (eight days of creation, eight redemptive actions of God).
And here is why day eight returns us to day one: In day one, the Fall reigns throughout humanity. Only Noah and his small family are just. The rest of humanity is wicked. So it is in the eighth day as well: in the times of the great apostasy, at the end of the world, the vast majority of the Gentiles are wicked. Only a remant of the Gentiles and the fuller number of Jews have faith in Christ and are righteous. Therefore, days one and eight are the same in that most of humanity is wicked and in need of judgement. In both days, the fallen nature of man is the prevailing force in human history.
And therefore, in both days, the world that then exists must be "destroyed." But herein is the difference between them: they are an octave apart, and what are the seven notes that span the octave's gap? Those notes represent the REDEMPTION of humanity.
Hence, in day one, humanity for the most part has not yet experienced any major redemption from God. Therefore, in day one, whereas the fall reigns, it is yet REDEEMABLE. Hence, the destruction of the world in day one is a REDEMPTIVE action, and hence, the WATERS of the Flood, which prefigure Baptism. In the Flood, God is not pouring out conclusive wrath on humanity, but is cleansing the earth of sin. He is BEGINNING the Redemption of the world. Therefore, the new world that arises from the Flood is a world that is beginning to be redeemed.
But now what about day eight? In day eight, the world has already been redeemed to its maximal potential within human history. For in the night of the seventh day, humanity apostatized from the Gospel because of the chaos and scandal of religious conflict. Because the disciples had become NOT "one", the world was NOT "able to believe." So then God abandoned humanity into the consequences of its apostasy. But when those consequences came, humanity repented, for it was shown, in an epic catastrophe, its various darknesses for what they were, and, as a consequence, the light of the Catholic Church shown gloriously and healingly in that darkness. And so all the religious wounds were healed, all the children from the various foreign spiritual lands came home to Rome, and there was a great peace. The People of God rested from the six days of work against sin, and humanity walked with God more or less perfectly, just as the individual saint walks with God in the unitive phase.
Therefore ,when the sun sets in the eighth day, when humanity turns away from God even AFTER the sabbath like rest of the seventh day, there is nothing more God can do for the world. Behold, there is nothing that God can give to humanity in this age that exceeds Catholicism. Hence, humanity casting aside Catholicism the final time, there can be no further Redemption of humanity. The Redemption of humanity WITHIN this old creation is made COMPLETE in the seventh day.
Consequently, the world must be destroyed in the eighth day, but this time by FIRE, seeing as humanity is WITHOUT excuse. They cannot tell God that they did not know the way, nor the consequences of iniquity. No, in the Minor Chastisement, the world almost came to an end because of their iniquity. They were shown the full fruits of the darkness. But even more so, the world did NOT end then. For God had MERCY on the Gentiles in that age, even as He had done so on the Jews after the Exile. For just as the Jews were forgiven and restored to the Old Covenant after the Exile, so God restored the Gentiles to the New, and he gave humanity, if it were even possible, the BEST of both worlds. Finally, there was a reconciliation between science and faith. Therefore, in the seventh day, the Holy Spirit COMPLETED His sanctifying of the human race.
But so then when humanity apostatizes AGAIN, even after the Seventh day, they are BLASPHEMING the Holy Spirit historically. They are committing an unforgivable insult against God, saying that His entire plan was a lie, a waste. Therefore, humanity is incurable and unforgivable. For if the fullness of God's Redemption was not enough, nothing will be enough (see Heb 6) . Therefore, in day Eight, the world is destroyed by FIRE, it is judged, it is condemned..
And then is ushered in the world that will never end, the New, Everlasting Creation.
See 2 Peter 3: for with the Lord, a day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as a day. The world that then existed was destroyed by water, the present world is reserved for fire.
So yes there is a BIG BIG cyclic essence, in that day eight brings us back to day one. But the notes are nevertheless different in terms of succession, seeing as seven steps separate them.
And the Jewish History repeats with the Gentiles. But in the end, there are eight and only eight notes. Five in the Old Times, and Three in the New.