Has anyone ever heard this one before?

[Chaotic Void]

Has anyone ever heard the "The fetuses can't contribute to society so they're expendable" reason to have an abortion? [If you have, it was probably in much 'softer' terminology. If someone outright said that, I know of a few people who wouldn't hesitate to lay the hurt down on them]

[LGM]

No...but I have heard the "Margaritas can't contribute to sobriety, so they're enjoyable" reason to go to a Mexican restuarant.

[joel]

Has anyone ever heard the "The fetuses can't contribute to society so they're expendable" reason to have an abortion? [If you have, it was probably in much 'softer' terminology. If someone outright said that, I know of a few people who wouldn't hesitate to lay the hurt down on them]
That would be a pretty lame argument, since infants and other young born children don't contribute to society, but are clearly not expendable. Born children, infants, fetuses, zygotes, etc. do have the capacity for contributing to society. Thus they are all equally persons.

[David Hayward]

Has anyone ever heard the "The fetuses can't contribute to society so they're expendable" reason to have an abortion? [If you have, it was probably in much 'softer' terminology. If someone outright said that, I know of a few people who wouldn't hesitate to lay the hurt down on them]Eventually those foetuses will pay tax and contribute to my old age pension, the health service, etc etc.

[Zero1]

Has anyone ever heard the "The fetuses can't contribute to society so they're expendable" reason to have an abortion? [If you have, it was probably in much 'softer' terminology. If someone outright said that, I know of a few people who wouldn't hesitate to lay the hurt down on them]

On a different forum someone made a very similar statement to me. They basically said that a fetus was human but the point was whether or not they were wanted in the world, or were useful.

[Chaotic Void]

On a different forum someone made a very similar statement to me. They basically said that a fetus was human but the point was whether or not they were wanted in the world, or were useful.

That is just sick.... how'd you respond?

[jabr]

A cell plucked from my cheek doesn't contribute to society. It also has the same potential of becoming an adult as a fertilized egg...

Please review the rules and guidelines for the Pro-Life forum here at TWeb:

"This is a specialty area of the forum which purpose is to reflect this forum's commitment to the rights of the unborn and recognition that each day more are dying. This is not a debate area but rather a discussion area of various pro-life issues - with supporters from all faiths or lack of faith. Abortion advocates are welcome to ask questions and engage in dialog respectful of the fact that this area is for the promotion of pro-life issues. This area is NOT restricted to Christians or theists as we recognize that compassion for the unborn and their rights cuts across those boundaries.

Abortion may be debated or advocated in other debate areas of the forum."

Thanks.

[jabr]

My last comment was "moderated".

I'll try again: what if your unfounded beliefs are, well, unfounded?

This is a PRO-LIFE Forum, debate on whether or not a fetus/zygote is a person, when life starts, or any other variation of Pro-Choice is not allowed in here!! We have other appropriate forums outside of this one where you can speak your mind. If you continue to debate, argue or put forth your "butt cell" argument I will consider you Obtuse and you will be dealt with accordingly.

[Teallaura]

Uh, back on topic...

It's a very bad utilitarian argument. It should actually go the other way unless you were discussing a deformed or handicapped child. It could only be made if we had too many workers - but since we are 'importing' workers from Mexico at present the argument wouldn't hold up.

This is why it's very sad to hear Michael J Fox use 'greatest good for the greatest number' - it's straight up utilitarianism and he doesn't seem to realize that in utilitarianism the embryo would be of greater value than he himself is given his illness.

Utilitarianism stinks.

[Sir-Think-A-Lot]

Has anyone ever heard the "The fetuses can't contribute to society so they're expendable" reason to have an abortion? [If you have, it was probably in much 'softer' terminology. If someone outright said that, I know of a few people who wouldn't hesitate to lay the hurt down on them]

I have better idea, why not kill all homeless people? They dont contribute to society either. OR better yet all those people who abuse the welfare system. They could contribute to society but refuse to.

Ugh this argument makes me sick. Even if it held any water(which it doesnt, eventually those fetuses will be working adults), its just plain wrong to think of a person only in terms of how much they contribute to society.

[Teallaura]

I have better idea, why not kill all homeless people? They dont contribute to society either. OR better yet all those people who abuse the welfare system. They could contribute to society but refuse to.

Ugh this argument makes me sick. Even if it held any water(which it doesnt, eventually those fetuses will be working adults), its just plain wrong to think of a person only in terms of how much they contribute to society.

Welcome to the wonderful world of utilitarianism.

[Adrift]

yes I'm familiar with this argument. Its the old Scrooge... "If they would rather die, they had better do it, and decrease the surplus population." argument. Someone recently argued this in another forum i'm on claiming that having children be born into impoverished families who are already taking a toll on the welfare system are only producing a bigger burden to society. So it's better that they be aborted than born at all...
When people say things like that it simply floors me.

[Chaotic Void]

Thanks to all who answered.

To tell the truth, I myself have never come across this argument even from the mouths of the most cold-blooded pro-choicers I have tangled with. I mostly hear the common ones such as "what if it's a rape/incest baby?" "What if it's born with a disease/mental disability?".

The problem I find with the Utilarianist argument [aside from the fact it doesn't hold] is that it's a slippery slope... "Where does it end?" "What about Homeless people, Slackers, Comatose people?" [Sir Think-A-Lot mentioned this, kudos to him].

[Dee Dee Warren]

Uh, back on topic...

It's a very bad utilitarian argument. It should actually go the other way unless you were discussing a deformed or handicapped child. It could only be made if we had too many workers - but since we are 'importing' workers from Mexico at present the argument wouldn't hold up.

This is why it's very sad to hear Michael J Fox use 'greatest good for the greatest number' - it's straight up utilitarianism and he doesn't seem to realize that in utilitarianism the embryo would be of greater value than he himself is given his illness.

Utilitarianism stinks.

Banning abortion could solve our immigrant problem.

[mossrose]

Thanks to all who answered.

To tell the truth, I myself have never come across this argument even from the mouths of the most cold-blooded pro-choicers I have tangled with. I mostly hear the common ones such as "what if it's a rape/incest baby?" "What if it's born with a disease/mental disability?".

The problem I find with the Utilarianist argument [aside from the fact it doesn't hold] is that it's a slippery slope... "Where does it end?" "What about Homeless people, Slackers, Comatose people?" [Sir Think-A-Lot mentioned this, kudos to him].
The elderly.

[Chaotic Void]

The elderly.

My apologies.. I forgot "The Eldery"

[Sir-Think-A-Lot]

The elderly.

Figures that mossy would bring up the elderly...

[mossrose]

Well, nobody else was gonna!

Somebody has to protect us!

:mossrose:

[Chaotic Void]

Well, nobody else was gonna!

Somebody has to protect us!

:mossrose:

Than again.... does Mossy REALLY need protecting? I mean, after all, she's got that tricked out rolling pin....

[mossrose]

Yeah. I am good.

You are right, though, what about the other groups of people who can be easily marginalized if we use these kinds of arguments for getting rid of the pre-born?

[Chaotic Void]

Yeah. I am good.

You are right, though, what about the other groups of people who can be easily marginalized if we use these kinds of arguments for getting rid of the pre-born?
Indeed. Personally, I'd sock someone if they used this argument [and only if they were male, as I don't hit women.]