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Marta
04-19-2016, 06:37 PM
Exodus 6:3 - Parashas Va’eira (http://www.shemayisrael.com/parsha/bonchek/archives/vaera62.htm)(5762)


But My name 'Hashem' I was not known to them. Rashi: It is not written here "[ My name 'Hashem'] "lo Hodati" I did not make known [to them]" Rather [it says] "[ My name 'Hashem'] "lo Nodati" I was not known [ to them]." I was not recognized by them with My attribute of "keeping faith" by reason of which my name is called 'Hashem,' that I am faithful to substantiate my promise. For indeed I promised them but I have not [yet] fulfilled [my promise].

This is a complex comment; Rashi is addressing two difficulties in our verse. We will our begin analysis by clarifying what he is saying.

WHAT IS RASHI SAYING?

Rashi differentiates between the meaning of two conjugations of the word "to know." The two are:

1. 'lo Nodati' being the passive form, means "I was not known."

2 'lo Hodati' being the active form, means "I did not make known."

Rashi points out that, of these two, our verse says "I was not known."


From Benno Jacob’s Commentary on Exodus (http://www.biu.ac.il/JH/Parasha/eng/vaera/sei.html)
Dr. Meir Seidler

Department of Jewish Philosophy

In addition, Benno Jacob further reinforces his view that we are dealing with the manifestation of G-d’s ways in the world and not with His name by pointing to the fact that nowhere in Scripture does the root y–d–‘ (to know) denote making a new name known, rather it always indicates a deeper sort of understanding or a greater awareness (this word, awareness, uses the same Hebrew root, y-d-‘; pp. 144-145). One outstanding example out of the many that he cites comes from the continuation of our parasha: “And you shall know that I, the Lord (Y-H-W-H), [am your G-d]” (Ex. 6:7). According to Jacob, this verse reverberates in contrast to what was said several verses earlier, “but I did not make myself known to them [the patriarchs] by My name Y-H-W-H.”

Moreover, if we were truly dealing with revelation of a name that had not previous been known (as Bible criticism tries to maintain), then the root g-l-h, to reveal, would have been used, and not y-d-‘, to know (p. 148). According to Benno Jacob, the distinction between the name El Shaddai and the tetragrammaton in our parasha is also reflected in the verbs that are used in conjunction with these two names: “appeared” and “made myself known:”

These verbs do not denote a greater or lesser intimacy in G-d’s revelation to the individual human being. It is a fact that Numbers 12:6 states with respect to the lower degree of prophecy, “I make Myself known to him in a vision” (using both the roots, r-a-h, to see, and y-d-‘, to know)… This is not the sense in which G-d’s revelation to the patriarchs differed from His revelation to Moses; rather, here one sort of revelation is contrasted with another, where the second kind of revelation [that given to Moses] could not yet have occurred [in the time of the fathers], insofar as it is destined only for an entire people and not for individuals. This sort of revelation necessitates that the Lord’s might be revealed in deeds of such magnitudes that only the name Y-H-W-H suits them.

In contrast to the verb “to see,” here the verb “to know” (vida’atem) is interpreted as pertaining to realization of something, in the current case realization of the deeds necessary for the promise to be fulfilled. Benno Jacob rests his argument on such verses as: “But I acted for the sake of My name, … For it was before their eyes that I had made Myself known to them [Israel] to bring them out of the land of Egypt” (Ezek. 20:9) and “when I made Myself known to them in the land of Egypt, I gave my oath to them” (Ezek. 20:5). In these verses, G-d’s making Himself known (root y-d-‘) to His people finds expression in the deeds which He wrought for them to take them out of the land of Egypt.

37818
04-19-2016, 07:51 PM
To Abraham, ". . . And He said unto him: 'I am the LORD that brought thee out of Ur of the Chaldees, to give thee this land to inherit it.' . . ." -- Genesis 15:7.

To Isaac, " . . . And the LORD appeared unto him the same night, and said: 'I am the God of Abraham thy father. Fear not, for I am with thee, and will bless thee, and multiply thy seed for My servant Abraham's sake.' And he builded an altar there, and called upon the name of the LORD, and pitched his tent there; and there Isaac's servants digged a well. . . ." -- Genesis 26:24-25.

To Jacob, "(32:10) And Jacob said: 'O God of my father Abraham, and God of my father Isaac, O LORD, who saidst unto me: Return unto thy country, and to thy kindred, and I will do thee good; . . . " -- Genesis 32:9

Marta
04-23-2016, 01:11 PM
A point - God makes himself known to us in various ways - as if to arouse the soul to make oneself aware of God's presence. So, "I was not known" and "I did not make known" is understood in Genesis and also, in Exodus. Moses' speech with God, Exodus 33, is with the thought of "to make known" - 1 Moses said to the Lord, “You have been telling me, ‘Lead these people,’ but you have not let me know whom you will send with me. You have said, ‘I know you by name and you have found favor with me.’ 13 If you are pleased with me, teach me your ways so I may know you and continue to find favor with you. Remember that this nation is your people.”

Genesis 12:

12 The Lord had said to Abram, “Go from your country, your people and your father’s household to the land I will show you.

Genesis 13:

13 So Abram went up from Egypt to the Negev, with his wife and everything he had, and Lot went with him. 2 Abram had become very wealthy in livestock and in silver and gold. 3 From the Negev he went from place to place until he came to Bethel, to the place between Bethel and Ai where his tent had been earlier 4 and where he had first built an altar. There Abram called on the name of the Lord.

Genesis 14:

18 Then Melchizedek king of Salem brought out bread and wine. He was priest of God Most High, 19 and he blessed Abram, saying, “Blessed be Abram by God Most High, Creator of heaven and earth. 20 And praise be to God Most High, who delivered your enemies into your hand.”

Genesis 15:

In Genesis 15, After this, the word of the Lord came to Abram in a vision: “Do not be afraid, Abram. I am your shield, your very great reward.”

The question "being" is how God "makes" himself "known", to us. In the New Testament, and I hope I have this right, in John 6:44
"No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them, and I will raise them up at the last day." - it is to make himself known to us or to draw us to himself. After Genesis 15, God then appears to Abraham, "1 Abram was ninety-nine years old, the Lord appeared to him and said, “I am God Almighty ; walk before me faithfully and be blameless. 2Then I will make my covenant between me and you and will greatly increase your numbers.”


That phrase, "I did not make known." or "I was not known." is a matter of a more realistic understanding of when God makes His presence know to man

37818
04-23-2016, 11:07 PM
Exodus 6:3, based on the evidence, should be understood interrogatively, for the negative particle לא

". . . and I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, as God Almighty, but by My name Jehovah I made Me not known to them." -- JPS.

Reading it interrogatively, ". . . and I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, as God Almighty, but by My name Jehovah did I not make Me known to them?"

The KJV, ". . . And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by [the name of] God Almighty, but by my name JEHOVAH was I not known to them."

Just add the question mark, ". . . And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by [the name of] God Almighty, but by my name JEHOVAH was I not known to them?"

As JEHOVAH:
Abraham, Genesis 12:7:8; 15:7,8.
Isaac, Genesis 26:24,25.
Jacob, Genesis 32:9.

As God Almighty:
Abraham, Genesis 17:1.
Isaac,Genesis 28:3.
Jacob, Genesis 35:10, 11.

Notice the above references, by His Name first then latter by God Almighty.

Geert van den Bos
04-24-2016, 11:48 PM
Exodus 6:3 - Parashas Va’eira (http://www.shemayisrael.com/parsha/bonchek/archives/vaera62.htm)(5762)


But My name 'Hashem' I was not known to them. Rashi: It is not written here "[ My name 'Hashem'] "lo Hodati" I did not make known [to them]" Rather [it says] "[ My name 'Hashem'] "lo Nodati" I was not known [ to them]." I was not recognized by them with My attribute of "keeping faith" by reason of which my name is called 'Hashem,' that I am faithful to substantiate my promise. For indeed I promised them but I have not [yet] fulfilled [my promise].

This is a complex comment; Rashi is addressing two difficulties in our verse. We will our begin analysis by clarifying what he is saying.

WHAT IS RASHI SAYING?

Rashi differentiates between the meaning of two conjugations of the word "to know." The two are:

1. 'lo Nodati' being the passive form, means "I was not known."

2 'lo Hodati' being the active form, means "I did not make known."

Rashi points out that, of these two, our verse says "I was not known."


Rashi said more:


It is not written here that I did not make known to them, but that I was not known to them, in the sense that I was not recognized by them in terms of My attribute of keeping My word, by reason of which My name is called Y-H-W-H, indicating that I am certain to substantiate My promises, for I made promises to them but did not fulfill them [during their lifetime].


i.e. he only becomes known as being redeemer , savior.

Ex. 20:2, "I am the Lord your God who led you out of Egypt out of the house of bondage"

http://www.chabad.org/holidays/passover/pesach_cdo/aid/658520/jewish/What-is-the-significance-of-the-four-cups.htm


G‑d uses four expressions of redemption in describing our Exodus from Egypt and our birth as a nation:

1. "I will take you out…"

2. "I will save you…"

3. "I will redeem you…"

4. "I will take you as a nation…"

(...)

There is actually a fifth expression in the above mentioned verses: "And I will bring you to the land which I promised to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, and I will give it to you as an inheritance.
While the Exodus from Egypt and the birth of the Jewish nation were permanent, we have yet to be brought to Israel on a permanent basis.

In honor of this verse we have a fifth cup at the Seder: the Cup of Elijah. This cup is set up for Elijah during the second half of the Seder, but we do not drink it. Elijah will announce the arrival of Moshiach, who will bring all Jews to Israel, for good.



So only when the Messiah comes God's name will be fully known.

Which must be the sense of John 1:18,

No one has ever seen God; the only God, who is at the bosom of the father, he has made him known.

Marta
04-25-2016, 01:46 PM
Exodus 6:3, based on the evidence, should be understood interrogatively, for the negative particle לא

". . . and I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, as God Almighty, but by My name Jehovah I made Me not known to them." -- JPS.

Reading it interrogatively, ". . . and I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, as God Almighty, but by My name Jehovah did I not make Me known to them?"

The KJV, ". . . And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by [the name of] God Almighty, but by my name JEHOVAH was I not known to them."

Just add the question mark, ". . . And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by [the name of] God Almighty, but by my name JEHOVAH was I not known to them?"

As JEHOVAH:
Abraham, Genesis 12:7:8; 15:7,8.
Isaac, Genesis 26:24,25.
Jacob, Genesis 32:9.

As God Almighty:
Abraham, Genesis 17:1.
Isaac,Genesis 28:3.
Jacob, Genesis 35:10, 11.

Notice the above references, by His Name first then latter by God Almighty.

Yes, agree that he was known by other names in the Torah - however, and the point, is that these names were used by the prophets on how God was made known - to them.

"I am the LORD; 3 and I appeared to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, as God Almighty (El Shaddai), but by My name, LORD, I did not make Myself known to them.…


noting in the article:
"but they had not yet experienced its realization as God who “does and fulfills"

and Ezekiel: “I the Lord have spoken and I will act” (22:14; also cf. 12:25, 24:14, 36:36, and 37:14), where the tetragrammaton is used to indicate “saying and doing, … decreeing and fulfilling.”

According to Benno Jacob, the distinction between the name El Shaddai and the tetragrammaton in our parasha is also reflected in the verbs that are used in conjunction with these two names: “appeared” and “made myself known:”




El Shaddai:

El Shaddai (Hebrew: אל שדי‎, IPA: [el ʃaˈdːaj]) or just Shaddai is one of the names of the God of Israel. El Shaddai is conventionally translated as God Almighty but while the translation of El as "god" or "lord" in the Ugarit/Canaanite language is straightforward, the literal meaning of Shaddai is the subject of debate.

The name appears 48 times in the Bible, seven times as "El Shaddai" (five times in Genesis, once in Exodus, and once in Ezekiel). It has been conjectured that El Shaddai was therefore the "god of Shaddai".

The first occurrence of the name is in Genesis 17:1, "And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the LORD appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I am El Shaddai; walk before me, and be thou perfect."

**Yet another suggested meaning of "El Shaddai" is that it is composed of the Hebrew relative particle she- (Shin plus vowel segol followed by dagesh), or, as in this case, as sha- (Shin plus vowel patach followed by a dagesh).[11] The noun containing the dagesh is the Hebrew word dai meaning "enough, sufficient, sufficiency".[12] This is the same word used in the Passover Haggadah, Dayeinu, which means "It would have been enough for us." The song Dayeinu celebrates the various miracles God performed while liberating the Israelites from Egyptian servitude.[13] The Talmud explains it this way, but says that "Shaddai" stands for "Mi she'Amar Dai L'olamo"—"He who said 'Enough' to His world." When he was forming the earth, he stopped the process at a certain point, withholding creation from reaching its full completion, and thus the name embodies God's power to stop creation .[14]***Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/El_Shaddai)

Thought:


D'var Torah: Vayechi (http://kehillatisrael.net/docs/dt/dt_vayechi.html)
In this explanation, Rashi tells us that the change in God’s name from El Shaddai to YHVH indicates a change in behavior, that is, from a God who makes promises to a God who fulfills them, and not as the introduction of a new name for God.

Benno Jacob elaborates on Rashi’s idea, pointing out that when Jacob made his statement to Joseph in Gen. 48:3, Jacob was referring to the nature of God’s revelation to him when he departed BeerSheva for Haran, despite the fact that the text never used the name El Shaddai during that revelation. Instead the text states “And YHVH was standing beside him and He said, ‘I am YHVH’” (Gen. 28:13). Benno Jacob explains that the patriarchs knew the name YHVH as God who “says and promises,” but they had not yet experienced its realization as God who “does and fulfills.”2 The patriarchs clearly knew El Shaddai as God who promises many offspring and much land, while many other later verses outside Genesis that use the Tetragrammaton for God’s name combine the ideas of statement/promise and action/fulfillment, such as Num. 14:35:


“I the Lord have spoken: Thus will I do.”

Read this article further: Bar-Ilan University's Parashat Hashavua Study Center (http://www.biu.ac.il/JH/Parasha/eng/vaera/sei.html)
Parashat Va-Era 5765/ January 8, 2005 - In addition, Benno Jacob further reinforces his view that we are dealing with the manifestation of G-d’s ways in the world and not with His name by pointing to the fact that nowhere in Scripture does the root y–d–‘ (to know) denote making a new name known, rather it always indicates a deeper sort of understanding or a greater awareness (this word, awareness, uses the same Hebrew root, y-d-‘; pp. 144-145). One outstanding example out of the many that he cites comes from the continuation of our parasha: “And you shall know that I, the Lord (Y-H-W-H), [am your G-d]” (Ex. 6:7). According to Jacob, this verse reverberates in contrast to what was said several verses earlier, “but I did not make myself known to them [the patriarchs] by My name Y-H-W-H.”

Marta
04-25-2016, 01:53 PM
Rashi said more:




i.e. he only becomes known as being redeemer , savior.

Ex. 20:2, "I am the Lord your God who led you out of Egypt out of the house of bondage"

http://www.chabad.org/holidays/passover/pesach_cdo/aid/658520/jewish/What-is-the-significance-of-the-four-cups.htm




So only when the Messiah comes God's name will be fully known.

Which must be the sense of John 1:18,

No one has ever seen God; the only God, who is at the bosom of the father, he has made him known.

John 1? :eh: John 17!

3 Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent. 4 I have brought you glory on earth by finishing the work you gave me to do. 5 And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began.


Jesus Prays for His Disciples

6“I have revealed you to those whom you gave me out of the world. They were yours; you gave them to me and they have obeyed your word.


Holy Father, protect them by the power of your name, the name you gave me, so that they may be one as we are one. 12 While I was with them, I protected them and kept them safe by that name you gave me

Marta
04-26-2016, 06:21 PM
So only when the Messiah comes God's name will be fully known.

Which must be the sense of John 1:18,

No one has ever seen God; the only God, who is at the bosom of the father, he has made him known.

In John 17, the verse reads, "3 Now this is eternal life: that they know you" if God was known as "El Shaddai - God Almighty" the one who promises (to the prophets - Abraham, Isaac and Jacob) then the God at Sinai was "made" known by "My name Y-H-W-H” (to the Israelites) the God who “does and fulfills. Where would this put John 17?

When reading Luke 1: 54-55, the angel Gabriel came to make the announcement to Mary as the angel Gabriel came to Zacharias. Then there is a immediate reaction to the appearance of Gabriel. In both cases, "Do not be afraid," is addressed to both Zacharias and Mary. Then there is the promise of a son. The point with Mary as to “house” or “to bear” a holy offspring that would be conceived in her by God the Most High Himself. In the Song of Mary as with Zechariah’s Song – both tell of the fulfillment of the promise of salvation. (which would have been the Beginnings) and in John 17, it reads a completion “to make known” as the promise is fulfilled – “that they know you” or “to make known of what was not known”:

6 “I have revealed you to those whom you gave me out of the world. They were yours; you gave them to me and they have obeyed your word. 7 Now they know that everything you have given me comes from you. 8 For I gave them the words you gave me and they accepted them. They knew with certainty that I came from you, and they believed that you sent me.

The way that the article reads and by comparison with Genesis & Exodus, was that God spoke, sent visions, then appeared = the fulfillment of the promise: as it is said, And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by [the name of] God Almighty

- 1The Lord had said to Abram (spoke), “Go from your country, your people and your father’s household to the land I will show you (Genesis 12); that the Lord came to Abram in a vision (Genesis 15 – vision ); When Abram was ninety-nine years old, the Lord appeared to him (Genesis 17 – then appeared)

Exodus 3 (Spoke), God called to him from within the bush, “Moses! Moses!” “So God called to Moses, unlike Abraham; God spoke to you from the midst of the fire, you were hearing the sound of words, but you were not seeing a form, only a sound. He told you of His covenant, instructing you to keep the Ten Commandments, and He inscribed them on two stone tablets.' (Deut.4:9-13); God then identifies himself as, “the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob; Then Shekhinah Glory appeared as a Pillar of Cloud by day and as a Pillar of Fire by night – to lead them on their way; Exodus 33 – God appears
According to Benno Jacob, the distinction between the name El Shaddai and the tetragrammaton in our parasha is also reflected in the verbs that are used in conjunction with these two names: “appeared” and “made myself known:” In John 17, Jesus made God’s name known to the people -

37818
04-26-2016, 08:50 PM
All appearances of the LORD God in the OT were none other than the preincarnate Jesus Christ (John 1:18; John 8:56; John 12:41 - Isaiah 6:5).

Geert van den Bos
04-27-2016, 03:21 AM
According to Benno Jacob, the distinction between the name El Shaddai and the tetragrammaton in our parasha is also reflected in the verbs that are used in conjunction with these two names: “appeared” and “made myself known:” In John 17, Jesus made God’s name known to the people -

To appear is a form of "raah"= to see.

Genesis 17:1, "vayeira hashem el avram" = and the Lord appeared to Abram.

Make known is a form of "yada" = to know.

So you might think there is a connection between the fruit of the tree of knowledge and the name of God.

Like if profanizing of the name is like the eating of the forbidden fruit.

John 17:6,

Ἐφανέρωσά σου τὸ ὄνομα τοῖς ἀνθρώποις οὓς ἔδωκάς μοι ἐκ τοῦ κόσμου.

φανερόω = make public

but not for all people,

only to those that were given to him out of the world.

Marta
04-27-2016, 10:49 AM
To appear is a form of "raah"= to see.

Genesis 17:1, "vayeira hashem el avram" = and the Lord appeared to Abram.

Make known is a form of "yada" = to know.

So you might think there is a connection between the fruit of the tree of knowledge and the name of God.

Like if profanizing of the name is like the eating of the forbidden fruit.

John 17:6,

Ἐφανέρωσά σου τὸ ὄνομα τοῖς ἀνθρώποις οὓς ἔδωκάς μοι ἐκ τοῦ κόσμου.

φανερόω = make public

but not for all people,

only to those that were given to him out of the world.

Comment to, "only to those that were given to him out of the world". In the same flex - that God appeared or made himself known to the patriarchs and made himself "known as" El Shaddai - "And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by [the name of] God Almighty".
However, and when reading the beginning of John 17, the prayer applies to plural and not designated to specific few,"3 Now this is eternal life: that they know you ":

The 70 are to cure the sick and spread the same message that Jesus has been proclaiming. (Jesus Sends 70 Disciples to Preach (https://www.jw.org/en/publications/books/jesus/ministry-in-judea/sends-out-70/))

These disciples are not to focus on teaching in synagogues. Jesus tells them to go to people’s homes. “Wherever you enter into a house,” he instructs, “say first: ‘May this house have peace.’ And if a friend of peace is there, your peace will rest upon him.” What is to be their message? Jesus says: “Tell them: ‘The Kingdom of God has come near to you.’”—Luke 10:5-9.
5 “When you enter a house, first say, ‘Peace to this house.’

The prayer for the disciples was that Jesus "revealed – or made known “God”, in the same way as the patriarchs. If God was revealed to the patriarch using El Shaddai (God Almighty)– and then in the Exodus – as “does and fulfills, using Y.H.V.H – which was never used with the patriarchs. Then how does Jesus “make known” of God to the Disciples? If we use Mary as with Zechariah’s Song that both tell of the fulfillment of the promise of salvation



A point toward the articles: Va'eira(Exodus 6:2-9:35) (http://www.aish.com/tp/i/wbr/48910662.html)

An Answer: If Hashem had said "I did not make My name known" it would have been untrue, since He did tell Abraham and Jacob this Divine name. Rather, what it says here is " I was not known by My name" - this implies the lack of a subjective, personal understanding of the significance of this name by Abraham or Jacob.

Geert van den Bos
04-27-2016, 02:10 PM
Comment to, "only to those that were given to him out of the world". In the same flex - that God appeared or made himself known to the patriarchs and made himself "known as" El Shaddai - "And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by [the name of] God Almighty".
.

Exodus 6:3 doesn't say that he (the Lord) made himself known as El Shadai, but that he (the Lord) appeared as El Shadai

Marta
04-27-2016, 03:40 PM
Exodus 6:3 doesn't say that he (the Lord) made himself known as El Shadai, but that he (the Lord) appeared as El Shadai

Didn't indicate the name El Shaddai was used in Exodus - but that it had been revealed during Exodus, '"I am the LORD; 3 and I appeared to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, as God Almighty (El Shaddai), but by My name, LORD, I did not make Myself known to them.…


noting in the article:

"but they had not yet experienced its realization as God who “does and fulfills"

and Ezekiel: “I the Lord have spoken and I will act” (22:14; also cf. 12:25, 24:14, 36:36, and 37:14), where the tetragrammaton is used to indicate “saying and doing, … decreeing and fulfilling.”

According to Abraham Joshua Heschel, "The true name of God is a mystery. It is stated in the Talmud, "And God said unto Moses...This is My name for ever (Exodus 3:15). The Hebrew word "for ever" (leolam) is written here in a way that it may be read "lealem" which means "to conceal". The name of God is to be concealed.

It is rendered by the Jews as Adonai (literally, "My Lord"), by the Samaritans as Hashem, and by the translators of the Bible into Greek by the word "Lord" (kyrios).

Again, this is not the point - the point being is that earlier patriarchs referred God - God Almighty (El Shaddai) later in Exodus, use of the tetragrammaton - as being the one who "does and fulfills" - going then to John 17, the prayer reads for the apostles - “I have revealed you to those whom you gave me out of the world". Revealed can mean the glory of God, the knowledge of God, the essence of God - it can mean many things. Even to the salvation of God - "I have revealed you to those whom you gave me" - is the manifestation of God, e.g. Exodus 33:18 - "Then Moses said, "Now show me your glory." In what way was it revealed - we know of the transfiguration and also, that God acknowledges that Jesus was his son after being baptized by John the Baptist - but to reveal could even be said, during the Pentecost that the spirit ascended on the apostles - and Mary.

To quote, "The glory is the presence, not the the essence of God; an act rather than a quality; a process not a substance. Mainly the glory manifests itself as a power overwhelming the world. Demanding homage, it is a power that descends to guide, to remind. The glory reflects abundance of good and truth, the power that acts in nature and history. "The whole earth is full of HIs glory" see Isaiah 6:9-10 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=isaiah+6&version=NIV)

as it says, " the earth shall be filled with the knowledge of the glory of the Lord, as the waters cover the sea"

Geert van den Bos
04-27-2016, 10:35 PM
Didn't indicate the name El Shaddai was used in Exodus - but that it had been revealed during Exodus, '"I am the LORD; 3 and I appeared to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, as God Almighty (El Shaddai), but by My name, LORD, I did not make Myself known to them.…

"The name Lord" was revealed during Exodus

The exodus being only complete with the entering of the Holy Land = kingdom of God.





as it says, " the earth shall be filled with the knowledge of the glory of the Lord, as the waters cover the sea"

glory = "kavod"

I thought it be related to gravitation = "koach hakoved"

http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2016/02/gravitational-waves-einsteins-ripples-spacetime-spotted-first-time


Gravitational waves, Einstein's ripples in spacetime, spotted for first time

37818
04-28-2016, 06:33 AM
"The name Lord" was revealed during Exodus

". . . And he said unto him, I [am] the LORD . . . " -- Genesis 15:7.

Geert van den Bos
04-28-2016, 07:26 AM
". . . And he said unto him, I [am] the LORD . . . " -- Genesis 15:7.

I am the Lord whose name will be revealed during the exodus ...

37818
04-28-2016, 01:14 PM
I am the Lord whose name will be revealed during the exodus ...

:lolo:

Marta
04-28-2016, 01:53 PM
I am the Lord whose name will be revealed during the exodus ...

Correct - El Shaddai, was to the patriarchs (The verse states that God did not reveal the tetragrammaton to the patriarchs)but with Moses and also, the Israelites God reveals Himself as fulfilling his promise to redeem the Israelites from Egypt - does and fulfills (God reveal to Moses a name which, according to our verse, was concealed from the patriarchs). The whole of Exodus is that the covenant with Abraham had been fulfilled (God, by revealing his name to Moses, informs him that the purpose of his mission is to fulfill the promises which God made to the patriarchs of giving them the land of Israel.).

the covenant of the pieces or covenant between the parts (Hebrew: ברית בין הבתרים berith bayin hebatrim) was an important event in the biblical story of the patriarch Abraham. In this event God revealed himself to Abraham and made a covenant with him (at the site known nowadays as Mount Betarim), in which God announced to Abraham that his descendants would eventually inherit the Land of Israel. This was the first of a series of covenants made between God and the Patriarchs.

Now, John 17 states the same - "Jesus Prays for His Disciples"


6 “I have revealed you to those whom you gave me out of the world. They were yours; you gave them to me and they have obeyed your word. 7 Now they know that everything you have given me comes from you. 8 For I gave them the words you gave me and they accepted them.

In the prayer - Jesus said, "For I gave them the words you gave me and they accepted them." - See John 14:
Jesus the Way to the Father

5 Thomas said to him, “Lord, we don’t know where you are going, so how can we know the way?”

6 Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. 7 If you really know me, you will know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him.”

8 Philip said, “Lord, show us the Father and that will be enough for us.”

9 Jesus answered: “Don’t you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? 10 Don’t you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you I do not speak on my own authority. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work. 11 Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; or at least believe on the evidence of the works themselves. 12 Very truly I tell you, whoever believes in me will do the works I have been doing, and they will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father. 13 And I will do whatever you ask in my name, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14 You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it.

Last Line:

15 “If you love me, keep my commands. 16 And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever— 17 the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him.

Marta
04-28-2016, 01:58 PM
:rtt:

37818
04-28-2016, 02:59 PM
". . . And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God Almighty, but by my name JEHOVAH was I not known to them? . . ." -- Exodus 6:3.

Geert van den Bos
04-28-2016, 11:28 PM
". . . And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God Almighty, but by my name JEHOVAH was I not known to them? . . ." -- Exodus 6:3.

The name of God is not an ordinary name like any other name.

God’s name is composed of the four letters that form the initials of "yom hashishi vay'chulu hashamayim" at the changeover from the sixth day, the profane, to the seventh day, the holy.

In the future it will become revealed that “the Lord is one and his name is one.” (Zechariah 14:9)

37818
04-29-2016, 06:46 AM
The name of God is not an ordinary name like any other name.

God’s name is composed of the four letters that form the initials of "yom hashishi vay'chulu hashamayim" at the changeover from the sixth day, the profane, to the seventh day, the holy.

In the future it will become revealed that “the Lord is one and his name is one.” (Zechariah 14:9)

". . . And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one." -- Zechariah 14:9.
". . . that God may be all in all." -- 1 Corithians 15:28.

God,s Name means Self-Existent. In the third person for the I AM (Exodus 3:14) meaning the Who-Is.

". . . Of whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named, . . ." -- Ephesians 3:15.

Geert van den Bos
04-29-2016, 08:35 AM
God,s Name means Self-Existent. In the third person for the I AM (Exodus 3:14) meaning the Who-Is.
.


Rashi:


“Ehyeh asher ehyeh (I will be what I will be)”: “I will be” with them in this predicament “what I will be” with them in their subjugation by other kingdoms. He [Moses] said before Him, “O Lord of the universe! Why should I mention to them another trouble? They have enough [problems] with this one.” He said to him, “You have spoken well. So shall you say, etc.” -[from Ber. 9b] (Not that Moses, God forbid, outsmarted God, but he did not understand what God meant, because originally, when God said, “I will be what I will be,” He told this to Moses alone, and He did not mean that he should tell it to Israel. That is the meaning of “You have spoken well,” for that was My original intention, that you should not tell such things to the children of Israel, only “So shall you say to the children of Israel,” ‘Ehyeh [I will be] has sent me.’”

37818
04-29-2016, 01:12 PM
Rashi:

Then according of your Rashi, that god is not God. The ucaused existence needs no God. And only the uncaused existence is self existent, nothing else is.

Geert van den Bos
04-30-2016, 05:55 AM
Then according of your Rashi, that god is not God. The ucaused existence needs no God. And only the uncaused existence is self existent, nothing else is.

Do you mean that there is no reason for God to be there?

37818
04-30-2016, 02:57 PM
Do you mean that there is no reason for God to be there?

No. Only that which is self existent is the uncaused existence. Uncaused existence needs no God. Any entity contingent on existing is not God.

Geert van den Bos
05-01-2016, 01:59 AM
No. Only that which is self existent is the uncaused existence.


I thought reason and cause to be synonyms ...



Uncaused existence needs no God. Any entity contingent on existing is not God.

Is that also why they crucified Jesus?

Mark 15:26,

καὶ ἦν ἡ ἐπιγραφὴ τῆς αἰτίας αὐτοῦ ἐπιγεγραμμένη, Ὁ βασιλεὺς τῶν Ἰουδαίων.

αἰτία
1) cause, reason 2) cause for which one is worthy of punishment, crime 3) charge of crime, accusation

Marta
05-02-2016, 07:43 PM
I tried to look up these two words:

Moreover, if we were truly dealing with revelation of a name that had not previous been known (as Bible criticism tries to maintain), then the root g-l-h (?? Gelah - to reveal), to reveal, would have been used, and not y-d-‘ (Yada), to know (p. 148). According to Benno Jacob, the distinction between the name El Shaddai and the tetragrammaton in our parasha is also reflected in the verbs that are used in conjunction with these two names: “appeared” and “made myself known:”

These verbs do not denote a greater or lesser intimacy in G-d’s revelation to the individual human being. It is a fact that Numbers 12:6 states with respect to the lower degree of prophecy, “I make Myself known to him in a vision” (using both the roots, r-a-h (Raah??), to see, and y-d-‘, to know)…


and Adam knew (yada—from the word Daat) Eve - Immediately following the episode of the expulsion from Eden we are told that Adam yada, knew, his wife. Apparently the word yada implies an experience. Similarly, Etz Ha'Daat, the Tree of Knowledge, was a tree of experience.

and, The Ramban interprets the word yodei as meaning loving, similar to (Bereishis 4:1), ‘Ve HaAdam yada es Chava ishto, Adam “knew” his wife Chava. The term “yodei shemechah v’lomdei Torasecha, those who know Your name and learn Your Torah, “ connotes the concept of those who love Your name rather than those who know Your name.


the root g-l-h (Gelah)– exile but also, g-l-h is also the root for “to reveal.”


Reference:

The Way to God: (https://books.google.com/books?id=UIXRAwAAQBAJ&pg=PA216&lpg=PA216&dq=to+reveal+rashi+to+make+known&source=bl&ots=ovuO7UNYf2&sig=ejM4-HvuIvnLereppnCKjRy0kbU&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiU9KWw37zMAhVGeCYKHTtsANoQ6AEIMTAE#v=on epage&q=to%20reveal%20rashi%20to%20make%20known&f=false) Interesting article to read.

Geert van den Bos
05-03-2016, 01:15 AM
I tried to look up these two words:

Moreover, if we were truly dealing with revelation of a name that had not previous been known (as Bible criticism tries to maintain), then the root g-l-h (?? Gelah - to reveal), to reveal, would have been used, and not y-d-‘ (Yada), to know (p. 148). According to Benno Jacob, the distinction between the name El Shaddai and the tetragrammaton in our parasha is also reflected in the verbs that are used in conjunction with these two names: “appeared” and “made myself known:”

These verbs do not denote a greater or lesser intimacy in G-d’s revelation to the individual human being. It is a fact that Numbers 12:6 states with respect to the lower degree of prophecy, “I make Myself known to him in a vision” (using both the roots, r-a-h (Raah??), to see, and y-d-‘, to know)…


and Adam knew (yada—from the word Daat) Eve - Immediately following the episode of the expulsion from Eden we are told that Adam yada, knew, his wife. Apparently the word yada implies an experience. Similarly, Etz Ha'Daat, the Tree of Knowledge, was a tree of experience.

and, The Ramban interprets the word yodei as meaning loving, similar to (Bereishis 4:1), ‘Ve HaAdam yada es Chava ishto, Adam “knew” his wife Chava. The term “yodei shemechah v’lomdei Torasecha, those who know Your name and learn Your Torah, “ connotes the concept of those who love Your name rather than those who know Your name.


the root g-l-h (Gelah)– exile but also, g-l-h is also the root for “to reveal.”


Reference:

The Way to God: (https://books.google.com/books?id=UIXRAwAAQBAJ&pg=PA216&lpg=PA216&dq=to+reveal+rashi+to+make+known&source=bl&ots=ovuO7UNYf2&sig=ejM4-HvuIvnLereppnCKjRy0kbU&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiU9KWw37zMAhVGeCYKHTtsANoQ6AEIMTAE#v=on epage&q=to%20reveal%20rashi%20to%20make%20known&f=false) Interesting article to read.

Numbers 12:5-8,
The Lord descended in a pillar of cloud and stood at the entrance of the Tent. He called to Aaron and Miriam, and they both went out.
He said, "Please listen to My words. If there be prophets among you, (I) the Lord I will make Myself known to him in a vision ; I will speak to him in a dream.
Not so is My servant Moses; he is faithful throughout My house.
With him I speak mouth to mouth; in a vision and not in riddles, and he beholds the image of the Lord. So why were you not afraid to speak against My servant Moses ?

Rashi: http://www.chabad.org/library/bible_cdo/aid/9940#showrashi=true

(I) the Lord will make Myself known to him in a vision : The Divine Presence of My Name is not revealed to him with distinct clarity, but in a dream or a vision. - [Tanchuma Tzav 13]

in a vision but not in riddles: “A vision” refers to the vision of speech, for I express My communication to Him with absolute clarity, and I do not obscure it with riddles in the way it was said to Ezekiel, “Present a riddle” (Ezek. 17:2). I might think that it refers to the vision of the Divine Presence [itself]! Scripture therefore teaches, “You are not able to see My face” (Exod. 33:23). - [Sifrei Beha’alothecha 1:42:8, Tanchuma Tzav 13]

v. 6 has "bamarah" - בַּמַּרְאָה
v.8 has "umarèh" - וּמַרְאֶה

"marah" = mirror; vision, revelation

"marèh" = sight, view, seeing, appearance, vision.

After this Paul wrote, 1 Corinthians 13:12,

βλέπομεν γὰρ ἄρτι δι' ἐσόπτρου ἐν αἰνίγματι, τότε δὲ πρόσωπον πρὸς πρόσωπον: ἄρτι γινώσκω ἐκ μέρους, τότε δὲ ἐπιγνώσομαι καθὼς καὶ ἐπεγνώσθην.

For now we see through a mirror in riddles, then from face to face; now I know in parts, then I shall know even as I am known.

Marta
05-03-2016, 06:24 PM
Two verses:

6 Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. 7 If you really know me, you will know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him.”

and,

Jesus Promises the Holy Spirit

15 “If you love me, keep my commands. 16 And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever— 17 the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you.

---John 14 Line 15, again - and as you pointed out earlier on the comparative to John 1:10 (to make known what was not known - like e.g. Exodus) He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him. 11 He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him. 12 Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God—

In contrast to the verb “to see,” here the verb “to know” (vida’atem) is interpreted as pertaining to realization of something,

Marta
05-03-2016, 06:35 PM
"These verbs do not denote a greater or lesser intimacy in G-d’s revelation to the individual human being. It is a fact that Numbers 12:6 states with respect to the lower degree of prophecy, “I make Myself known to him in a vision” (using both the roots, r-a-h, to see, and y-d-‘, to know)… This is not the sense in which G-d’s revelation to the patriarchs differed from His revelation to Moses; rather, here one sort of revelation is contrasted with another, where the second kind of revelation [that given to Moses] could not yet have occurred [in the time of the fathers], insofar as it is destined only for an entire people and not for individuals. This sort of revelation necessitates that the Lord’s might be revealed in deeds of such magnitudes that only the name Y-H-W-H suits them."

I think that the highlighted sentence is an important fact even with regards to the New Testament and speaking of Jesus comments in John 14. Noting that before Abraham went to Eretz Yisrael, God merely spoke to him; only in Eretz Yisrael did God appear to him.

Marta
05-04-2016, 06:47 PM
Numbers 12:5-8,
The Lord descended in a pillar of cloud and stood at the entrance of the Tent. He called to Aaron and Miriam, and they both went out.
He said, "Please listen to My words. If there be prophets among you, (I) the Lord I will make Myself known to him in a vision ; I will speak to him in a dream.
Not so is My servant Moses; he is faithful throughout My house.
With him I speak mouth to mouth; in a vision and not in riddles, and he beholds the image of the Lord. So why were you not afraid to speak against My servant Moses ?

Rashi: http://www.chabad.org/library/bible_cdo/aid/9940#showrashi=true


v. 6 has "bamarah" - בַּמַּרְאָה
v.8 has "umarèh" - וּמַרְאֶה

"marah" = mirror; vision, revelation

"marèh" = sight, view, seeing, appearance, vision.

After this Paul wrote, 1 Corinthians 13:12,

βλέπομεν γὰρ ἄρτι δι' ἐσόπτρου ἐν αἰνίγματι, τότε δὲ πρόσωπον πρὸς πρόσωπον: ἄρτι γινώσκω ἐκ μέρους, τότε δὲ ἐπιγνώσομαι καθὼς καὶ ἐπεγνώσθην.

For now we see through a mirror in riddles, then from face to face; now I know in parts, then I shall know even as I am known.


Fully known through the son, Hebrews 1:1-2 states: “God, who at various times and in various ways spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets, has in these last days spoken to us by His Son, whom He has appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the worlds.”." The way the events unfold in scripture is the way God is seen - 1st, spoken word, 2nd, in a vision, and then appeared.