Liberty dollar - private money?

[shunyadragon]

Friends

In Hillsborough, NC I recently found some people and a few businesses that volunteerilly trade in what are called Liberty dollars. More information is available at - libertydollar.org. It seemes to be popular around a town called King, NC.

Anybody eise have any experience with this money?

[Tickle Me Mercury]

Friends

In Hillsborough, NC I recently found some people and a few businesses that volunteerilly trade in what are called Liberty dollars. More information is available at - libertydollar.org. It seemes to be popular around a town called King, NC.

Anybody eise have any experience with this money?

I have some of those. It's a company that prints up silver and gold pieces for us hard-money enthusiasts. The value is based on the weight of the piece, not the dollar amount printed on it. The paper money is 100% backed by vaulted silver, so they do a trade up program. If you have one 20 dollar coin or paper, you can trade it up for a corresponding weight amount as the value of the USD goes down do to inflation.

There are other private mints as well. They just seem to be getting a lot of attention at the moment.

Keep in mind that they are not "legal tender" which means a shop-owner can rightfully refuse to take them in trade.

[Timothy Leary]

I think it's interesting, but utimately useless as 1$ Liberty Dollar = 1$ USD in the paper form. As long as it's pegged to the FRN (Funny Reserve Notes), it's useless.

[Tickle Me Mercury]

I think it's interesting, but utimately useless as 1$ Liberty Dollar = 1$ USD in the paper form. As long as it's pegged to the FRN (Funny Reserve Notes), it's useless.

Well, they aren't pegged to FRNs, if I understand your meaning correctly. Their value is in terms of weights of precious metals—even the paper money has a weight value on it.

edited to add: And they aren't really equal currencies. They just try to divide the currency up in units roughly equal to the USD so that they can be traded on equal footing. Like any hard currency, it's the weight that matters.

[Timothy Leary]

Well, they aren't pegged to FRNs, if I understand your meaning correctly. Their value is in terms of weights of precious metals—even the paper money has a weight value on it.
Yeah, but if you get a bunch of paper notes of the liberty dollar, and the value of the dollar drops, they aren't going to send you more liberty dollars to make up the difference are they?

[Tickle Me Mercury]

Yeah, but if you get a bunch of paper notes of the liberty dollar, and the value of the dollar drops, they aren't going to send you more liberty dollars to make up the difference are they?

You can exchange them. For instance, when the company first started, the one ounce silver rounds were valued at 10 liberty dollars. The ten dollar paper money was worth one silver ounce. When the price of silver rose, and LD revalued the one ounce pieces at 20, you could exchange the old 10 dollar notes for 20 dollar notes, because they were both worth one ounce in silver regardless of the number slapped on them.

[Timothy Leary]

It looks like the feds are now picking a fight with the liberty dollar, since our funny reserve notes are falling in value like a rock out of a plane:

Dear Liberty Dollar Supporters:
I sincerely regret to inform you that about 8:00 this morning a dozen FBI and Secret Service agents raided the Liberty Dollar office in Evansville.
For approximately six hours they took all the gold, all the silver, all the platinum and almost two tons of Ron Paul Dollars that where just delivered last Friday. They also took all the files, all the computers and froze our bank accounts.
We have no money. We have no products. We have no records to even know what was ordered or what you are owed. We have nothing but the will to push forward and overcome this massive assault on our liberty and our right to have real money as defined by the US Constitution. We should not to be defrauded by the fake government money.
But to make matters worse, all the gold and silver that backs up the paper certificates and digital currency held in the vault at Sunshine Mint has also been confiscated. Even the dies for mint the Gold and Silver Libertys have been taken.
This in spite of the fact that Edmond C. Moy, the Director of the Mint, acknowledged in a letter to a US Senator that the paper certificates did not violate Section 486 and were not illegal. But the FBI and Services took all the paper currency too.
The possibility of such action was the reason the Liberty Dollar was designed so that the vast majority of the money was in specie form and in the people’s hands. Of the $20 million Liberty Dollars, only about a million is in paper or digital form.
I regret that if you are due an order. It may be some time until it will be filled… if ever… it now all depends on our actions.
Everyone who has an unfulfilled order or has digital or paper currency should band together for a class action suit and demand redemption. We cannot allow the government to steal our money! Please don’t let this happen!!! Many of you read the articles quoting the government and Federal Reserve officials that the Liberty Dollar was legal. You did nothing wrong. You are legally entitled to your property. Let us use this terrible act to band together and further our goal – to return America to a value based currency.

http://www.libertydollar.org/ld/legal/raid.htm

There's a class action lawsuit against the feds being filed, especially since they were given assurrances from the govt that liberty dollar production is legal. I'd join in if I'd ever bought any.

[Tickle Me Mercury]

It looks like the feds are now picking a fight with the liberty dollar, since our funny reserve notes are falling in value like a rock out of a plane:



http://www.libertydollar.org/ld/legal/raid.htm

There's a class action lawsuit against the feds being filed, especially since they were given assurrances from the govt that liberty dollar production is legal. I'd join in if I'd ever bought any.

I have a bunch of the coins. I never got the paper or digital money, so I wouldn't qualify regardless.

[Darth Executor]

It looks like the feds are now picking a fight with the liberty dollar, since our funny reserve notes are falling in value like a rock out of a plane:



http://www.libertydollar.org/ld/legal/raid.htm

There's a class action lawsuit against the feds being filed, especially since they were given assurrances from the govt that liberty dollar production is legal. I'd join in if I'd ever bought any.

RON PAUL dollars? :lmbo:, talk about cultists.

[Timothy Leary]

RON PAUL dollars? :lmbo:, talk about cultists.
I know, it's kinda stupid, but it's politics. I mean, there are Hillary Clinton '08 golfballs and Bush '04 golfballs, so why not? I wouldn't buy any of that crap.

[Darth Executor]

I know, it's kinda stupid, but it's politics. I mean, there are Hillary Clinton '08 golfballs and Bush '04 golfballs, so why not? I wouldn't buy any of that crap.

All the more reason to join me in the "I'm not voting" camp.

[Timothy Leary]

Well I doubt that Ron Paul came up with the idea of Ron Paul dollars, so it doesn't worry me that much, every group has nutcases. Actually, almost all fanbois are nutcases.

[Tickle Me Mercury]

Well I doubt that Ron Paul came up with the idea of Ron Paul dollars, so it doesn't worry me that much, every group has nutcases. Actually, almost all fanbois are nutcases.

Have I told everyone in here that I recently got a Mac? You should all get one!

Any more threads with people who don't know?

[Timothy Leary]

Have I told everyone in here that I recently got a Mac? You should all get one!

Any more threads with people who don't know?
See, what did I tell you Darth, they're nutcases.
not only is he a libertarian, he's a mac user as well.

j/k :hehe:

[shunyadragon]

I have a bunch of the coins. I never got the paper or digital money, so I wouldn't qualify regardless.

Liberty was recently raided and shut down by the Feds. The metals on stock were confiscated. They are claiming they are printing illegal money.

[Tickle Me Mercury]

Liberty was recently raided and shut down by the Feds. The metals on stock were confiscated. They are claiming they are printing illegal money.

Well, LD has been pretty much goading the federal gov't since their inception. Thus, they're the only private printer that got raided.

From what I can tell, LD never printed illegal money, because they never claimed their dollar to be legal tender, just certain weights of gold or silver or receipts for gold or silver.

[Timothy Leary]

Well, LD has been pretty much goading the federal gov't since their inception. Thus, they're the only private printer that got raided.

From what I can tell, LD never printed illegal money, because they never claimed their dollar to be legal tender, just certain weights of gold or silver or receipts for gold or silver.
They've been operating for nine years, and they made sure that it was a legal operation - getting verification from govt officials, etc. Unless the govt has got some hard evidence, this is just going to give media attention to our poor monetary policy and the need to return to the gold standard.

[Tickle Me Mercury]

They've been operating for nine years, and they made sure that it was a legal operation - getting verification from govt officials, etc. Unless the govt has got some hard evidence, this is just going to give media attention to our poor monetary policy and the need to return to the gold standard.

That's what Bernard has been saying in his emails.

[Darth Executor]

I don't buy it. I bet there's something that was left out of the story (there always is something leftout when yoshi posts one of these stories) but I'm too lazy to check.

[Timothy Leary]

I don't buy it. I bet there's something that was left out of the story (there always is something leftout when yoshi posts one of these stories) but I'm too lazy to check.
you won't find anything other than whatever claims the govt is now making... IIRC the warrant and all that stuff is on their website. i'm not a liberty dollar fan, really. The silver/gold coins are nice, but it's more practical (at least, on a savings end) to just purchase bullion.

the only way it'll be worth anything is (IMO) if it forces changes in my nation's monetary policy from the aftermath of this scuffle with the feds. then again, that may have been their idea from day one.

[Nicholas]

A little bit old, but apparently the government had decided that Liberty Dollars are illegal:

Feds Raid 'Liberty Dollar' HQ in Ind.

By RYAN LENZ – Nov 16, 2007
EVANSVILLE, Ind. (AP) — Federal agents raided the headquarters of a group that produces illegal currency and puts it in circulation, seizing gold, silver and two tons of copper coins featuring Republican presidential candidate Ron Paul.

Agents also took records, computers and froze the bank accounts at the "Liberty Dollar" headquarters during the Thursday raid, Bernard von NotHaus, founder of the National Organization for the Repeal of the Federal Reserve Act & Internal Revenue Code, said in an interview.

The organization, which is critical of the Federal Reserve, has repeatedly clashed with the federal government, which contends that the gold, silver and copper coins it produces are illegal. NORFED claims its Liberty Dollars are inflation free and can restore stability to financial markets by allowing commerce based on a currency that does not fluctuate in value like the U.S. dollar.
Source and more: http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5jZHepUhX3cYLnSqZV2tm_byrun3AD8SV1B5O2

[shunyadragon]

Well, LD has been pretty much goading the federal gov't since their inception. Thus, they're the only private printer that got raided.

From what I can tell, LD never printed illegal money, because they never claimed their dollar to be legal tender, just certain weights of gold or silver or receipts for gold or silver.

I also believe this is the case, but I will follow it threw the courts and see what happens.

[Timothy Leary]

A little bit old, but apparently the government had decided that Liberty Dollars are illegal:

We've already been talking about that.... in this thread :tongue:
Missed your morning cofee? ;)

[dizzle]

Have I told everyone in here that I recently got a Mac? You should all get one!

Any more threads with people who don't know?

Ha! You beat me to it!

[Nicholas]

We've already been talking about that.... in this thread :tongue:
Missed your morning cofee? ;)

Hmm, I posted that yesterday at 10:41 pm This is what I get for trying to find time to post on Tweb before going to bed...

[joel]

Keep in mind that they are not "legal tender" which means a shop-owner can rightfully refuse to take them in trade.

That's not exactly what legal tender means. With or without "legal tender" laws, a shop owner can rightfully refuse or accept any kind of payment he chooses.

What legal tender laws mean is that if person A owes person B a debt, then if A chooses to pay B in legal tender, then B must accept the legal tender as satisfaction of the debt. For example, if I lent you a certain amount of gold coin, and we agreed that you would pay me back the same amount of gold coin, but the value of gold goes up, then you would rather pay me back in the lower-value of legal tender, which kinda screws me over, but benefits you.

Another example: suppose the U.S. government had a humongous debt, say they borrowed a bunch of gold. Because of legal tender laws, the government does not have to pay back gold but can pay back in legal tender. Even better for the government is that it can print up a bunch more legal tender first, dropping its value, getting a bargain on the repayment of its debt, which is good for the government and bad for its creditors, i.e., people who hold treasury bonds (and bad for people who hold legal tender too, for that matter).

In short, a shop keeper does not have to accept legal tender. But if you go to a restaraunt and eat a bunch of food, then you owe the restaurant a debt (your bill), and the restaurant must accept legal tender. It's not a restriction on the debtor but a restriction on the creditor.