Far Eastern Religions Test Thread

[Paintbucket]

So I was wondering why there is no Far Eastern religious forum here. So I will start a thread and see if there is some interest. This is to be a free discussion on Far Eastern Religions, such as Hinduism, Buddhism, Taoism, Confucianism, Sikhism, Shinto. Any interest/discussion is welcome.

[shunyadragon]

So I was wondering why there is no Far Eastern religious forum here. So I will start a thread and see if there is some interest. This is to be a free discussion on Far Eastern Religions, such as Hinduism, Buddhism, Taoism, Confucianism, Sikhism, Shinto. Any interest/discussion is welcome.

Actually it would be Far Eastern Religions and philosophies to include all of the above. This may not jive with the western thinker and believer, but in the Orient the seperation is not that clear.

I am interested. At present this discussion is in comparivie Religions, but there are reasons that this does not work well there. Part of the problem is Comparitive Religions is that belief in some sort of God is required, and the parallel does not work well in the Oriental worldview. Leaving the criteria more open would be better.

[Paintbucket]

Well shuny, this was the best that I could do for a location. But you have some interest. We can discuss something, and any other discussions/people/ideas are certainly welcome.

[Sparko]

moved to general theistics. Comp religion is for theists only Paintbucket, as I told you in the PM.

[shunyadragon]

Well shuny, this was the best that I could do for a location. But you have some interest. We can discuss something, and any other discussions/people/ideas are certainly welcome.

The problems and contradictions of Comparitive Religions rears its head. the thread was moved. Yes, there is a need for section specifically devoted to 'Far Wastern Religions and Philosophies.'

Read the criteria for General Theistics 101, it would make discussion of Oriental Religions problematic where you may be debating the nature of Buddusm as theist, deist, monist, agnostic or atheist.

[Paintbucket]

Fair enough. So, any topics to discuss?

[Nicholas]

I would be intrested in a Far Eastern Religions forum.

[lao tzu]

I don't think there are enough of us on this board for a dedicated forum.

[Nicholas]

I don't think there are enough of us on this board for a dedicated forum.

I don't think numbers really matter. Look at all of the other forums dedicated to specific religions. I've glanced at a few of them, and in a couple of them it's mostly the same few people all of the time.

[Sparko]

The various religious areas are not created to give people of those religions a place to hang out, but for Christians (mostly) and others to discuss those religions.

Generally eastern religions are discussed under comparative religions. There have not been much discussions going on. If there were, we would probably create such an area.

[Nicholas]

The various religious areas are not created to give people of those religions a place to hang out, but for Christians (mostly) and others to discuss those religions.

Generally eastern religions are discussed under comparative religions. There have not been much discussions going on. If there were, we would probably create such an area.

Well, it is theists only, and some of the Eastern religions don't fit into the specific definition of theism. A number of them don't even have gods in the sense that Western/Middle Eastern religions do, if at all. Would a Theravada Buddhist be considered considered a theist, even though they don't really have any gods to speak of (based on my knowledge)?

And even if there aren't alot of theists that are interested, I'm not sure that would necessarily mean that there isn't alot of interest, after all, there might be atheists and agnostics that have an interest but don't since there isn't really a specific area for it.

But anyway, these are just thoughts on my part.

[Sparko]

we have made an exception for Buddhists and other non-theist religionists in comp religion. for the purposes of discussing those types of religion. Regular agnostics and atheists are not permitted there however.

In General Theistics, anyone can participate, including nontheists, as long as the discussion is kept civil and doesnt devolve into discussions on whether God exists or not.

see the forum notices at the top of each forum to see the rules and restrictions for each area. Everyone should do that before posting in any area.

[shunyadragon]

The various religious areas are not created to give people of those religions a place to hang out, but for Christians (mostly) and others to discuss those religions.

Generally eastern religions are discussed under comparative religions. There have not been much discussions going on. If there were, we would probably create such an area.

The problem with comparative religions is it is theist only, which generally stiffles any discussion of Oriental Faiths, because of the interest of non-traditional beliefs among atheists and agnostics. Eastern Religions also cover a broad gamit of beliefs from the western perspective.

I previously asked that comparative religions be openned up to include all belief systems, but that did not work.

[Sparko]

The problem with comparative religions is it is theist only, which generally stiffles any discussion of Oriental Faiths, because of the interest of non-traditional beliefs among atheists and agnostics. Eastern Religions also cover a broad gamit of beliefs from the western perspective.

I previously asked that comparative religions be openned up to include all belief systems, but that did not work.


didnt you just read what I said above? :argh:
from the comp religion sticky:

" World Religions is a theist only type place, but that does not exclude the religionists who practice non-theistic faiths ala Buddhism.

This is not a place where we argue the existence / non-existence of God."

If agnostics and atheists want to discuss these religions they can do it HERE in general theistics.

sticky for general theistics:




"This area is open for nontheists and theists to interact on issues of theism and faith. We ask that nontheist participation respect the theistic views of others and not seek to undermine theism in general, or advocate for nontheism. Such posts are more suited for and allowable in Apologetics 301 with very little restriction. "

so there are two places someone can discuss eastern religion depending on who they want to participate.

[Nicholas]

we have made an exception for Buddhists and other non-theist religionists in comp religion. for the purposes of discussing those types of religion. Regular agnostics and atheists are not permitted there however.

In General Theistics, anyone can participate, including nontheists, as long as the discussion is kept civil and doesnt devolve into discussions on whether God exists or not.

see the forum notices at the top of each forum to see the rules and restrictions for each area. Everyone should do that before posting in any area.

I read it the rules and restrictions before I even responded to this thread, yes. One issue that I can think of deals with part of why I haven't even posted in this part of the forum before. I didn't really even look at partially due to the name. When I saw "General Theistics", I immediately think that it is probably dealing with primarily western religions because of the second word. I also didn't really think it had anything to do with discussing different religions because it was separate from the religion specific areas, and that the name sounded like it might be a theist only forum section, so I didn't really bother looking for a while.

I'm not trying to be a pest, but I don't think the lack of threads necessarily means that there is a lack of interest. People might have an interest but not even notice this thread.

[shunyadragon]

didnt you just read what I said above? :argh:
from the comp religion sticky:

" World Religions is a theist only type place, but that does not exclude the religionists who practice non-theistic faiths ala Buddhism.

This is not a place where we argue the existence / non-existence of God."

If agnostics and atheists want to discuss these religions they can do it HERE in general theistics.

sticky for general theistics:




"This area is open for nontheists and theists to interact on issues of theism and faith. We ask that nontheist participation respect the theistic views of others and not seek to undermine theism in general, or advocate for nontheism. Such posts are more suited for and allowable in Apologetics 301 with very little restriction. "

Yes, I read this and the rules, but debates concerning the Far Eastern Religions do not fit theism from the western perspective particularly Buddhism and Taoism. The diverse beliefs here range from Theism to Atheism. Buddhist themselves have a range of these beliefs and ppart of the debate within and related to Buddhism is the nature and existence of a 'Source'. Many Buddhists are atheists, particularly those that endorse Japanese Zen.


. . . so there are two places someone can discuss eastern religion depending on who they want to participate.

Not if the debate covered the full range of Far Eastern beliefs.

[Sparko]

Yes, I read this and the rules, but debates concerning the Far Eastern Religions do not fit theism from the western perspective particularly Buddhism and Taoism. The diverse beliefs here range from Theism to Atheism. Buddhist themselves have a range of these beliefs and ppart of the debate within and related to Buddhism is the nature and existence of a 'Source'. Many Buddhists are atheists, particularly those that endorse Japanese Zen.



Not if the debate covered the full range of Far Eastern beliefs.

you can always go to Philosphy. or even apologetics.

[Paintbucket]

Zen is atheist? I thought Zen was apathetic toward gods.

[shunyadragon]

Zen is atheist? I thought Zen was apathetic toward gods.

Zen may be indifferent, or apathetic (agnostic), atheist, or in Japanese culture believe in the Shinto 'Most Great Kami, and/or the potential pantheon of divinities.

[shunyadragon]

you can always go to Philosphy. or even apologetics.

Nontheless in reality they do not fit there either. It seems like your view is shove and fit in whatever, and not deal with the reality of these belief systems.

[Sparko]

Nontheless in reality they do not fit there either. It seems like your view is shove and fit in whatever, and not deal with the reality of these belief systems.


all I am saying is people have multiple venues to discuss occasional threads dealing with eastern religion and philosophy. If it got to the point where there were enough action on the topic we might have already had started a special forum for it. That we haven't had that much interest kinda shows that such an area would not be used much. Feel free to keep drumming up interest or trying to talk the owners into starting such an area, I don't care one way or another. I am just telling you that you do have a place to discuss such things right now.

[lao tzu]

I don't care one way or another.

Riiigghht. Just as I finished cooking up a batch of :popcorn: ... way to kill a good fight, pirate.

[Paintbucket]

So, I'll throw something out, just for my knowledge.

Why does Hinduism have so many gods? Why are that many needed?

[shunyadragon]

So, I'll throw something out, just for my knowledge.

Why does Hinduism have so many gods? Why are that many needed?

From the point of a less biased perspective, why is, or is there only one God any more or less necessary than many.

From another perspective, the Vedic one, there is only one God, and the other deities are aspects of the one God. Interesting isn't it.

None, one or many, and what is the nature of many aspects of these relationships, is part of the debate on Oriental religions and philosophy that does not fit the neat black and white western boxes of Theism, Deism, Polytheism, Monism, Thouism, or whateverism.

[JSDileo]

So, I'll throw something out, just for my knowledge.

Why does Hinduism have so many gods? Why are that many needed?

Well, are you familiar with the doctrine of the trinity in Christianity, where there is one god who exists in three persons? Much of Hinduism believes in something similar. In these forms of Hinduism, there is one God (Brahma) who exists in quite literally millions of persons. The highest god, brahma, is a sort of impersonal transcendent force that consists of the universe and transcends it. It is the essence of reality itself that permeates all things and consists them. Hinduism can oftentimes get very complex in its doctrines on divinity (and a variety of other topics), due to the fact that Hinduism does not have a "closed canon" like Christianity, but is more of a series of philosophy that can be changed and developed over time. Hence, Hinduism has been evolving ever since its conception and its doctrines ever more complex since its founding.

Hope this helps a little bit.

~JSDileo

[Paintbucket]

So do these persons become gods after completing the paths of yoga? Or do they just happen?

[Nicholas]

So do these persons become gods after completing the paths of yoga? Or do they just happen?

No, they do not become "gods". After achieving Moksha (or liberation) the individual is freed from the cycle of birth, death, and rebirth.

You also caught me at a good time to ask about this type of thing, because we just finished Eastern Religions in my Religions of the World class.

[Paintbucket]

So let me throw something out here.

The concept of Jnana Yoga in Hinduism fascinates me. (Way of Knowledge). Supposedly, it is the shortest path to divine realization. However it seems as though the effort is for a constant Out-of-Body-Experience. From the little I know, the self is to be abolished in this system. Anyone else know anymore on this?

[Storico]

I'm studying Taoism now on my own, out of a general interest in it, and out of a fondness for some of what I've read of the Tao. I'd like to discuss that with people some time, so I'll keep my eye on this thread or maybe I'll take it to Philosophy in a while when I have more to ask or say.

[shunyadragon]

all I am saying is people have multiple venues to discuss occasional threads dealing with eastern religion and philosophy. If it got to the point where there were enough action on the topic we might have already had started a special forum for it. That we haven't had that much interest kinda shows that such an area would not be used much. Feel free to keep drumming up interest or trying to talk the owners into starting such an area, I don't care one way or another. I am just telling you that you do have a place to discuss such things right now.

I feel if you look closer at all the related threads on Oriental Religions you will find more than you assert here. What I would like is Comparitive Religions changed and the restrictive limits of who may post removed. Oriental Religions could also be added as a subform there. There is a distinct contradiction in the guidelines of Comparative Religions, because of the restriction to Theists only..

In the academic community Comparitive Religions includes a far more diverse scope of beliefs than variations of Theism.

[Paintbucket]

Well Storico, what's interesting about Taoism to you?