What can we do to protect the pre-born childrens' right to life?

[joel]

I came to the "Pro-Life Activism" thread looking for threads on pro-life activism, and didn't see any, so I thought I'd start one.

What are ways that we can make a difference regarding this vast injustice and mass murder?

Speaking in terms of the U.S., as long as the Supreme Court refuses to overturn Roe v Wade, there isn't anything we can do, regarding the law, without passing a constitutional amendment. (Although there is precident for the executive branch simply refusing to enforce rulings of the Supreme Court.) This is why the vote for President is so important, since the President appoints justices to the Supreme Court.

I, for one, do think that we ought to pass a constitutional amendment protecting the pre-born childrens' right to life. We need an amendment that clearly states that pre-born children are included in the term "persons" in the 5th amendment when it states, "No person shall be...deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law" and the14th amendment when it states, "nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws."
As long as the courts misinterpret "person" and forcibly prevent the stopping of abortions, there isn't anything we can do to physicially defend those innocents.

The other major step is that we need to convince the population of the country that abortion is a grave injustice, and that we must protect the right to life (and the right to support from her parents) of the pre-born.

How do we accomplish these things?

[mossrose]

We are not likely to be able to change legislation in a timely enough manner to make abortion illegal or to preserve the rights of the unborn any time soon.

It is important that we support and encourage Pro-Life centres in our localities.

They need not only financial donations, but also baby items for those women who choose to carry their babies to term, and then either give them up for adoption or keep them.

They need our prayer, and that is perhaps the most important thing we can do. We are limited, at least in Canada, in regards to praying outside of abortion clinics. But we can certainly pray for young women and men who find themselves in an unplanned pregnancy without being anywhere near a clinic.

We need to teach abstinence to our young people. We need to encourage our young people to take responsibility for their actions and let them know that abortion is NOT the only ending to the dance.

[joel]

We are not likely to be able to change legislation in a timely enough manner to make abortion illegal or to preserve the rights of the unborn any time soon.

Perhaps, but if we never start, then it will never happen. So, think long-term. What needs to happen in the long term? And from that, hopefully we can see what to do now.

In the U.S., the Supreme Court has changed since it last considered Roe. The Court this year upheld a partial-birth-abortion-ban when it previously struck down all such bans. So we don't really know how the current Court would rule on a Roe-like case. If South Dakota had passed their total abortion ban last year, then we probably would have gotten to see how the Court would answer.

The fact that the popular vote in S.D. voted down the ban (55% to 45%) tells us that we still have a huge job of opening the eyes of our fellow citizens. Articles on that incident suggested that the reason it was voted down is because the law banned all abortions including in the case of rape, and suggest that a law with such exceptions could get passed. The South Dakota Secretary of State's web site reportedly states that another initiative is on the way to their 2008 ballot.

Just as a reminder for how the U.S. constitution can be amended... There are 2 ways for an amendment to get proposed:
1) 2/3 vote in both houses of Congress
2) proposed by a Constitutional Convention, called by 2/3 of the States (by their legislatures).

Once proposed, it must be ratified by 3/4 of the States (38 States).


It is important that we support and encourage Pro-Life centres in our localities.How do we locate such centres in our localities?

What are the major groups that help families, actively work to open everyone's eyes to the injustice of abortion, and work towards legal resolutions?


They need not only financial donations, but also baby items for those women who choose to carry their babies to term, and then either give them up for adoption or keep them.Absolutely we need to help families in need. And we need to get the word out that when parents find themselves in a difficult situation, they can come to us for help.


They need our prayer, and that is perhaps the most important thing we can do.Amen.

[jabr]

Have you considered the possibility that abortion is not murder?

Not quite appropriate for the pro-life activism forum. The argument this post seeks to generate is more appropriate for civics.

[LGM]

I encourage my breeding age offspring to make sure and use birth control until such time they want offspring of their own.

Seems to work.

[SlapShot]

I, for one, do think that we ought to pass a constitutional amendment protecting the pre-born childrens' right to life. We need an amendment that clearly states that pre-born children are included in the term "persons" in the 5th amendment when it states, "No person shall be...deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law" and the14th amendment when it states, "nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws."
As long as the courts misinterpret "person" and forcibly prevent the stopping of abortions, there isn't anything we can do to physicially defend those innocents.

The other major step is that we need to convince the population of the country that abortion is a grave injustice, and that we must protect the right to life (and the right to support from her parents) of the pre-born.

You're putting the cart before the horse. First you have to make 2/3's of the members of Congress pro-life. Fat chance there. Then you have to make the country pro-life first, and it isn't, even in South Dakota.

Bush has had two terms to stack the SCOTUS with pro lifers and Roe v. Wade is still the law of the land.

[mossrose]

Have you considered the possibility that abortion is not murder?
No.

And fyi, this forum is for the discussion of pro-life issues. It is not a debate forum for discussing anything other than that.

Since most, if not all pro-lifers believe that abortion is murder, then anything other than that is a moot point in this forum.

There are already several threads in Civics and elsewhere where abortion being murder or not is being discussed.

[jabr]

I did not express myself clearly before:

Considering merely the age of 25, they face, daily, hundreds of immoral injustices. If we consider the world, oh my, there are thousands -- per day -- that suffer immorally.

So if you rule out my "crazy" protect all cells plan, is this actually the most significant thing you should be worried about? It's a lot easier to talk a 25 year old into spiritual rebirth than a cell...

You were warned.

[jabr]

I see. To paraphrase then: why do relatively old, but fully conscious and self aware, fetuses not demand equal concern to young, unconscious cells lacking self-awareness -- or anatomical structure, for that matter?

Do not post in the Pro-Life Activism Forum again - period. Take your argument to the Civics forum where it is allowed - you may start a separate thread there.

If you wish to argue with moderation do so in PM or if you just have to in the Boiler Room.

Last warning.

[TyRockwell]

[quote=SlapShot;2137403]You're putting the cart before the horse. First you have to make 2/3's of the members of Congress pro-life. Fat chance there. Then you have to make the country pro-life first, and it isn't, even in South Dakota.

Bush has had two terms to stack the SCOTUS with pro lifers and Roe v. Wade is still the law of the land.

The president has had the opportunity to get two more probable pro-life judges on the Supreme Court. If another vancy on the court presents itself, let us all pray that a subsequent nominee will be a pro-life judge. We only need one more such judge to be able to get Roe v. Wade overturned.

[dizzle]

Good thread Joel, thanks for posting it. I am a strange bird, I believe we can see abortion over-turned in our lifetimes. My activism is more at the personal level, I am vocal, vocal, vocal about abortion in every place and in every time. I have a molded figure of a pre-born child at my workplace.

One of the things we did as a forum was to start this section.

Another thing we can do is help some of the children in poverty stricken areas of the world. Please, please, please consider sponsoring a child through Compassion International.

[jabr]

Can you provide an example of the pro-life action you had hoped to see in these forums?

Hint: Stay out means don't post in here at all!

You are the weakest link - good-bye.

[Jeiel]

There are many practical things we can do, but my post will focus on the legal aspects. There are two successful approaches. I am not an American and the situation here in Europe is much harder and much easier (I will explain.)

One American approach that is working in some states is to regulate abortion very very strictly. This decreases the number of providing clinics.
One problem in the US is that abortion is literally a big business industry. By restricting abortion only to hospitals (not clinics) and setting price caps we can curtail the aggressive abortion providers that prey on doubting women for money. Those women who are certain will still get abortions somehow.
The late term abortion providers in the US and Spain seem to be exclusively of this type, their moral judgment has been clouded by the big bucks.

Another approach, championed by Ron Paul, is to limit the SCOTUS jurisdiction. Congress has this power and it would give red states the power to stop abortion.
He introduced to bills, one that defines life to start at conception (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanctity_of_Life_Act) and the other that restricts the jurisdiction of federal courts (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/We_the_People_Act).
And this is the big lie that has made me very, very angry at pro-life in name only republicans.
Even if you disagree with everything else Ron Paul stands for (and I do with many of his stances) you can not claim to be pro-life and not strongly support these bills.
As he shows, Congress has the authority to make Roe vs. Wade null and void. But unless the pro-life crowd will be critical of their representatives on this issue, they will not do it. At the moment they are in a comfort zone: pay lip service to the pro-lifers and get their vote, but don't take action that would cause the pro-choicers to rally against you.

In the Netherlands, atm, the laws are better than the US: 5 day waiting periods, a ban on third trimester abortion, no financial incentives for abortion providers (the price for an abortion is fixed, and doctors that perform it don't earn more than they would performing other medical services, such as delivering a baby. In the US doctors earn much more providing abortion.)
A Dutch woman went to Spain for a late abortion and is being criminally prosecuted for it.

We can't do better in the Netherlands unless public opinion changes. A majority in our parliament is all we need.

In the US they need to restrict the jurisdiction of the federal courts, public opinion is much more favorable.

So we have it easier, just get enough votes for the cause. It's really frustrating that pro-life America has enough votes, but not the political will to do anything about it.