Easy to comprehend revelation Timeline

[David]

Following is an easy to understand comprehensive timeline of Revelation which fits perfectly into the Timeline of Daniel because the prophets spoke about the same events.

Seeing there may be no prophecy students here, as most or all are past tense preterists that have negated all prophecy into the past, leaving only their supposed Rapture to take place in their future, they might as well try and present their counter revelation timelines.

Of course they can't show one even in the past tense, because formulating one would be impossible for them. nevertheless, the challenge is there for them as they can;t see the forest for their individual trees and individual doctrines of individual events.

So my Revelation Chart is here


http://www.geocities.com/davidjayjordan/Revelation.html

or the full vertical one at

http://www.geocities.com/davidjayjordan/RevelationsTimeline.html

So pretersist where are your timelines and logical rational cohesive timelines and order of events.

In His Prophetic Service

David

PS) It is also a waste of time to talk about current events with past tense preterists because they see no truths from prophecy and scriptures in the present tense which usually makes them nationalistic and patriotic and misaligned once again. Pity...

[David]

Preterists ..please feel free to post your timelines here in comparison to the prophecy of revelation.

Surely you have tried to get your doctrine together...as the Lord says in Isaiah 41 I think it was bring forth your cause and show what shall be ... or in your case show what has been fulfilled to prove nothing else is going to happen and that all prophecy is fulfilled and the Lord has nothing more to tell us except that he shall appear and take the righteous at the Rapture


http://www.geocities.com/davidjayjordan/RaptureAfterTribulation.html

So come on preterists, have some courage and speak up and defend yourselves, and show your work and how everything fits together according to the Lord's Words and prophecy

Hoping to hear from you

David

[Hitch]

Well Dave the 'preterists' have been presenting ther case on various issues all over the 'Dispensationalism' and Eschatology' threads.

There is plenty for you to respond to and its silly to think every one will come running because you have so lowered yourself to allow them audience.

Hitch

[David]

That's their Choice, Hitch

But personnally I have never seen or heard from a together 'Preterist' yet, as they are usually disjointed and it would be literally and scripturially impossible for them to compose a timeline, in my opinion.

And so yes, I don't feel they will come running, as they usually tend to talk about jots and titles, for in that kind of debate they can go on for eternity, but the problem is we are now in the real world with a real direction of time, and the Lord's Plan is what we are supposed to be figuring out concerning the present and the future.

So 'Preterists' do fell free to compose your timelines and present them here.

Thanks

David

http://www.geocities.com/davidjayjordan/Anti-ChristsProphecies.html

PS) As a hint think forest not individual trees, think overview before you get into specifics.

[joelkaki]

No offense or anuthing, but that timeline is about the hardest one I have ever seen to follow. Look's like a big hodge podge of stuff stuck on a page--not meant derogatorially (???) but if you want people to learn from it, you need to make it easier to get a good picture of. I wasn't sure what was going on with all that stuff. Not to mention I disagree with it anyway. So are you a classic dispensationalist, Acts 9, what?


Joel

[David]

No offense, Joel, but I didn;t see your timeline posted, and do remember to understand mine it takes more than a few seconds, to take in its scenario of events and scripture readings.

If you have a question rather than just negative remarks, do make them

Thanks.

David

PS) And please don't use church words and labels, as a mossionary I have no idea what church labels mean...in most cases. Much appreciated.

http://www.geocities.com/davidjayjordan/Jesus.html

[efta777]

David,
I don't have a nice chart or timeline that illustrates the Preterist perspective. I don't know if anyone's made one, and I'm not about to. Your chart is indeed very hard to follow and probably needs some pretty lengthy explanation to do it justice. I'd rather not focus on fancy charts and graphs but spend some time using the Bible/history to debate (And I suppose even current events in your case). If you're up for that then I would be happy to discuss my view vs. your view with you.
And if you want to discuss it with me, let's keep it civil, I won't mention how dumb I think your view is if you'll do the same for mine :smile:

[Lizard]

efta777:
David,
I don't have a nice chart or timeline that illustrates the Preterist perspective. I don't know if anyone's made one, and I'm not about to. Your chart is indeed very hard to follow and probably needs some pretty lengthy explanation to do it justice. I'd rather not focus on fancy charts and graphs but spend some time using the Bible/history to debate (And I suppose even current events in your case). If you're up for that then I would be happy to discuss my view vs. your view with you.
And if you want to discuss it with me, let's keep it civil, I won't mention how dumb I think your view is if you'll do the same for mine :smile:

Well said efta777. Civil discussion based on scripture. :thumb:

[joelkaki]

David, of course I didn't post a timeline. Why would I want to? I'm sure your chart is very well thought through, but I don't think if I just sat down for a number of minutes I would be able to get what 's going on without someone explaining it to me.


Joel

[David]

Issac, bro

Objectively speaking it is permissable to say a doctrine is dumb or irrational or unscripturial, but you can't cross the line and say a believer in that doctrine or thought is dumb, as anyone can change their mind, and they are not cemented to an error, for all of us can make mistakes.

In real debate, as they say in the dumb Canadain Parliament, My Honourable opponent is mistaken, which is classy and then start to rip apart what has been said by the homoirable opponent in not so nice terms.

Past tense doesn;t interest me except in increasing faith in the Lord's prophecy for the future tense.

But Issac having said that I just did this posting last night, even though it is unfinnished and unconnected to my web-site as yet.

And Yes it shows past historical fulfillments to show future fulfillments and sepate the two.

SEE http://www.geocities.com/davidjayjordan/7KingdomsofMan.html

It needs hyperlinks and rewording in many places, but it is a start.

As Yes, the revelation Timeline is complicated but simple to understand the flow if you take the time. It can be expanded and I have expanded it as have many others... http://www.geocities.com/davidjayjordan/Prophecymysteries.html and four other Boards.

But honestly Issac, I just don;t have time to talk about the past hardly at all, It makes zero sense to me.

If you want to talk about current events and future events, GREAT !! All for it, as the Lord's words apply today and in the FUTURE, for He has lots to say

Got to go ..

David jay Jordan

[joelkaki]

OK, David, let's talk about the future. What's going to happen next? What will be the significance of that event?


Joel

[efta777]

Objectively speaking it is permissable to say a doctrine is dumb or irrational or unscripturial, but you can't cross the line and say a believer in that doctrine or thought is dumb, as anyone can change their mind, and they are not cemented to an error, for all of us can make mistakes.
It was completely a joke, sorry if you misunderstood.

Past tense doesn;t interest me except in increasing faith in the Lord's prophecy for the future tense.


If I believe that much of the Biblical prophecy is fulfilled, then how do you expect to convince me of your own view if you will not even for a moment consider mine? You won't even tell me why you disagree with me. I believe that I have ample evidence to suggest a preterist interpetation of prophecy, though you speak as if preterism is something with ZERO basis in Biblical fact. I am perfectly willing to hear all your arguments for future fulfillement if you will for a moment consider mine.

[joelkaki]

David, so far all I've seen you post about eschatology on this board is that preterism is the depths of stupidity, we must all just be a bunch of idiots for even considering such an idea. But I have not seen a shread of biblical evidence against preterism, or a shred of evidence for your view. So are you going to back up your claims, or just continue to blast us as idiots without supporting it? I'll debate you on this, and we don't even have to talk about what is in the past unless a passage comes up in which that may be an issue. But seriosly, your claims that preterism is just stupidity accomplish nothing except lower our opinion of you. I don't have a problem with you saying that you do not believe preterism is biblical, and presenting Biblical evidence for it-that's good. But this ridiculous insulting serves no purpose, and is, well, ridiculous.

Joel

[David]

Preterists don't get mad get even, say something, post something positive and encouraging and uplifting that connects to the present and future and that inspires people to read and understand the Lord's prophecy......

You have admitted you have no timelines and could never ever have one. So tell us what your next prophetic event is, or just tell us there is no future and the Lord has stopped talking. Say something,

And do remeber I don't call you dumb only the preterist doctrine dumb, as you can easily change your mind and get into the present and future tense. I am being objective and not subjective. So defend your dumb position with intelligence or timelines or the next prophetic event and give your reason or reasons.

As for your queries they are rather easy to answer, as the scenario of events are discernable in prophecy, for surely the Lord God will do nothing except he revealeth his secrets unto his servants ,,, as His prophetic Book sates so plainly. So read what i found an independant person has written which is reasonably correct

Taken from my Bulletin Board at http://forums.delphiforums.com/Mysteries1/messages

Confirming Prophecy (Chronology) Website Previous | Next
From: JAYJORDA1 Feb-17 4:28 pm
To: ALL (1 of 1)

587.1

Here's another independant web-site that agrees with us or we agree with them.... or we both or all agree with Jesus. Hopefully !!
Anyway it is at ... ( http://www.angelfire.com/realm/ofstardust/CHRONOLOGY.html )

And my only divergance with this scenario, is the very first event, the Rise of the AC, because the AC does not sign the Covenant, and as the ruler that rises to power in Russia, he is against it after Putin signs the daniel peace Covenant. The AC arises after the Covenant is signed, and not before, but we shall see, and it NUMBER 2 is upcoming shortly after this horrific war starts and brings countries to the Peace Table.

****************************************************

1. The rise of the "anti-christ" or "beast". (Daniel 8:23)

2. Covenant signed. (Daniel 9:27)

3. Daily Sacrifice. (Daniel 11:31)

4. Breaking of the Covenant. (Daniel 11:31)

5. Great Tribulation starts (a 3 1/2 year time-period is given for this (Matthew 24:21, Daniel 12:11)

6. Beast revealed. 2 Thessalonians 2:3

7. Image set up. (Revelations 13:14-15)

8. Mark of the Beast and one-world credit system (Revelations 13:16, 17 and 18)

9. Return of Christ and "rapture" or resurrection of the dead (Matthew 24:29,30 and 31, 1 Thess. 4:16-17)

10. Wrath of God (Jeremiah 23:20 & Revelations 16:1)

11. Judgement seat of Christ (only the resurrected are judged at this time. Judgement of the "unsaved" is at the end of the
Millenium) 2 Corinthians 5:10,

12. Battle of Armageddon (Revelations 19:19)

13. The Millenium (1000 years of God and his saints controlling the earth (Revelations 20:4) Satan is also imprisoned at this
time for 1000 years)

14. The battle of Gog and Magog (Satan is released from the bottomless pit.*)

15. The Great White Throne Judgement: This is the judgement of everyone who was not resurrected at the return of
Christ.** (Rev. 20:12)

16. The New Heaven and the New Earth: God recreates the atmospheric heavens and earth...obviously to clean up all the
pollution and garbage. Earth becomes again like the garden of Eden and peace is restored permanently. I told you there was a
happy ending.

*This is because there will evidently be dissenters who will be given a final choice as to whether they want heaven on earth or
hell on earth.

**This is interesting because, according to certain Bible verses, God doesn't just see the human heart as either black or white
and just throw everyone into hell. It seems that this particular judgement is for people who, for example, hadn't heard the
Gospel of Jesus, but who had tried to lead a good life. Here are some interesting verses on the subject:

I will include two versions of Romans 2:14, 15 and 16: King James Version: "for when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by
nature do the things in the law, these, although not having the law, are a law to themselves, who show the work of the law
written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing or else excusing
them in the day when God will judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ, according to my gospel." (New Living Translation)
Romans 2:14, 15 and 16:"Even when Gentiles, who do not have God's written law, instinctively follow what the law says, they
show that in their hearts they know right from wrong. They demonstrate that God's law is written within them, for their own
consciences either accuse them or tell them they are doing what is right. The day will surely come when God, by Jesus Christ,
will judge everyone's secret life. This is my message."

So, this would explain the purpose of the "New Earth" as the resurrected are going to be living in Heaven. "In my Father's
house are many mansions...I go to prepare a place for you." (John 14)


********************

So the next event is the signing of the Ciovenant brought on by America's next War, what is the next event according to preterists thinking and doctrine.

Please be specific

Thanks

David

[Popeye]

David,

Here's the future as I, an orthodox preterist, understand it:

1. We and Christ keep on reigning for a while.
2. Satan is loosed and does his thing.
3. Christ bodily returns to earth.
4. Bodily resurrection of all people, past and present
5. Satan thrown into the lake of fire.
6. Judgement of all people, past and present.
7. Eternal state.

Putin, huh? Was that part of some Bible Code thing, or something? I don't seem to recall his name in scripture. I think it's kind of dangerous to play those games. I think Hal Lindsey said something about Christ coming by the year 1985, or something like that. Events are one thing, but I don't believe we should try labeling current people to them. For all you know, it could be me. Bwah ha ha!

I would say something like Jesus is the prince who made the covenant and put an end to sacrifice and grain offerings and the Beast was the Roman Empire/Nero, but that would all be in the past so I just won't mention any of that.

[Lizard]

Popeye:
David,

Here's the future as I, an orthodox preterist, understand it:

1. We and Christ keep on reigning for a while.
2. Satan is loosed and does his thing.
3. Christ bodily returns to earth.
4. Bodily resurrection of all people, past and present
5. Satan thrown into the lake of fire.
6. Judgement of all people, past and present.
7. Eternal state.

Putin, huh? Was that part of some Bible Code thing, or something? I don't seem to recall his name in scripture. I think it's kind of dangerous to play those games. I think Hal Lindsey said something about Christ coming by the year 1985, or something like that. Events are one thing, but I don't believe we should try labeling current people to them. For all you know, it could be me. Bwah ha ha!

I would say something like Jesus is the prince who made the covenant and put an end to sacrifice and grain offerings and the Beast was the Roman Empire/Nero, but that would all be in the past so I just won't mention any of that.

:no:

Popeye, you call that a timeline?

:no:

Just kidding, excellent post. :thumb: I think that you just gave an "easy to comprehend" timeline of Revelation. That is far easier to understand than any DF timeline I have ever seen. (and I have seen quite a few). Preterist don't have fancy timelines because we don't need fancy timelines.

Excellent summation of the orthodox preterits position (although number 5 varies depending on if you are premill or amill). :thumb:

I know what you mean about Hal Lindsey too. I used read all of his books. :argh: Now I know better.
:yipee:

[joelkaki]

David, the next event in prophecy is that (it isn't really an instantaneous thign) the kingdom will continue to expand until it fills the whole earth and then Jesus will come back to judge the world and usher in the eternal state. If you actually have any interest in debating this, I will support what I have said, but if all you want to do is call preterism dumb, then I will not continue on this thread. I still haven't really seen Scriptural support. Sure, you listed some refs, but you didn't prove that we are supposed to expect that next in prophecy.


Joel

[David]

Please excuse me Popeye if I quote you and put my comments in ...(..)

David, (yes popeye)

Here's the future as I, an orthodox preterist, understand it:

1. We and Christ keep on reigning for a while.
(but Popeye, jesus isn;t rigning from jerusalem, we are not his kings and priests, he has not brought in everlasting righteousness, What part of the world are you living in. Jesus didn;t return in the clouds and hasn;t taken over power in any country that I know of.)
2. Satan is loosed and does his thing. (This is a scripture talking about at the end of the Millinium, Popeye, the Millinium hasn;t started, there was no Battle of rmeggeddon on the plains of Megiddo, where do you get this stuff)
3. Christ bodily returns to earth. (Absolutely not, you just said he was reigning.... and he doesn't set foot on the Olives until after the tribulation, Popeye the locusts haven;t been here lately , 1/3 of the sea hasn;t turned to blood, 1/3 of the earth hasn;t died yet. the AntiChrist has not come to power and taken over the tenmple yet. matter of fact the temple hasn;t been built yet. have you not seen the pics of the Mount)?
4. Bodily resurrection of all people, past and present (OH my Popeye the Resurrection of the just and the unjust is at two different times. We are resurrected when jesus comes in the clouds, the resurrection of the unjust is after that.. Our resurrection is BEFORE the Lord plants his feet on the Mount of Olives not AFTER)
5. Satan thrown into the lake of fire. (Happens directly AFTER the Battle of Armegeddon and you don;t know when that is. This is exasperating. Popeye but go on)
6. Judgement of all people, past and present. (The White throne Judment happens after the battle of Gog andf Magog at the End of the the Millinium when we rule and reign with jesus. Do you know any of us that are ruling and reigning with jesus Now. of course Not, we haven't even started the Last 7 years yet. That's obvious)
7. Eternal state. (Eternity starts AFTER the Great White Throne Judgment and so you placed Eternity in the right spot... Ha...but that's a no-********)

No offense Popeye but there is no way in the world you could substanitate such a scenario with scriptures and a timeline. It just doesn;t make sense. But that doesn;t mean much, because if you can recognize your great error and errors , you can progress and get it right. And thank the Lord there is time until the Covenant is signed, but you better start working on it now. And Thanks for confirming what I was saying about preterists and I hope you can see it. if NOT, maybe you weren;t meant to.

Much appreciated Popeye

All the best in your future searches.

David

http://www.geocities.com/davidjayjordan/Prophecymysteries.html

Whoops you wrote more.......

Putin, huh? Was that part of some Bible Code thing, or something? (no Putin is the presdident of Russia...so obviously Popeye you need to study current events...and the Bible Code from what I read is pure nonsense and propaganda for a certain group of people) I don't seem to recall his name in scripture. I think it's kind of dangerous to play those games. (Read your newspaper, as Putin is not the AC
SEE http://www.geocities.com/davidjayjordan/Anti-ChristsProphecies.html ) I think Hal Lindsey said something about Christ coming by the year 1985, or something like that. (Shows where hal Lindsay is at, if he said that) Events are one thing, but I don't believe we should try labeling current people to them. (WE should understand prophecy and Not negate it like pretersits do so that they don;t even know current events) For all you know, it could be me. Bwah ha ha! (Actually the AC is very well educated and well spoken as he has been selected and rtained by the dark side since birth. Sorry Popeye your characteristics don;t apply)

I would say something like Jesus is the prince who made the covenant and put an end to sacrifice and grain offerings and the Beast was the Roman Empire/Nero, but that would all be in the past so I just won't mention any of that. (That's good, as it doesn;t make any sense. but its your choice and your responsibility)

DJJ

[David]

Joel, thanks for the response and let's go over your words with mine in ....(...)


******************

David, the next event in prophecy is that (it isn't really an instantaneous thign) the kingdom will continue to expand until it fills the whole earth and then Jesus will come back to judge the world and usher in the eternal state. (Same as Popeye, but as any rational person can see jesus is not in control. he is allowing the world to get worse and allowing the evil NWO to take over, and will be allowing famines plagues and pestilences and then allow the Covenant to be signed and allow more wars and even the AC to arise and kill and persecute true Christians and any others that oppose him, but Jesus ' kingdom is not here as you preterists imagine in your wildest fantacies. I mean talk about rsoe coloured glasses. Has jesus been in the clouds recently , has he stepped on the Mount lately, is he directing his kings and priests from jerusalem. No No No.)

If you actually have any interest in debating this, I will support what I have said, but if all you want to do is call preterism dumb, then I will not continue on this thread. (O.K. preterist doctrine doesn;t make sense in the real world and is obviously a religious doctrine that blinds itself to the real world, hoping its interpretation applies. But the further one gets into it, the less one studies prophecy and the less one will understand it or current events. Preterists are not dumb, the doctrine of preterism is...just as you believe the doctrine of future prophecy is dumb if you would be honest about it. You believe in preterism, I eblieve in the future and prophecy. And with the lack of depth or continuity or harmony, its obvious that you preterists have shot your last salvo's in only one posting..See above)

I still haven't really seen Scriptural support. Sure, you listed some refs, but you didn't prove that we are supposed to expect that next in prophecy.(My site is laced with scripture references, there's innumerable ones on the daniel Timeline, the rev timeline shows you what chapters to look for in each time frame and so you have to do the study yourself, we can;t do it all for you...for then you have to prove it to yourselves.

SEE prove it prove it

http://www.geocities.com/davidjayjordan/Proveit.html

Come on Joel, live up to your name and realize the Lord is still speaking and isn't dead. Study and read Joel 2: 28,29 and all about our Last encampment in the earluer section. Joel's words shall be fulfilled Hope you read them Thanks for the reply..

[efta777]

David,
You are looking for Jesus to be bodily present on Earth reigning during the millenium. Perhaps you are looking for the wrong thing... Could you show me verses that describe Jesus being PHYSICALLY PRESESNT on Earth for the Millenium?
Jesus is reigning from Heaven. I still see the work of Satan in this world, but I also see the Gospel constantly being presented to new groups of people and spreading - Revelation says that the Millenium begins with the binding of Satan, and the N.T. is EXTREMELY clear that Satan was bound during Christ's ministry on Earth - bound from decieving the nations, that is.

[David]

Issac bro,

No offnse and I hate to shatter your illusions, but Jesus never returned in the clouds, there was no Battle of Armeggeddon, you didn;t miss the Marriage Supper of the Lamb, and the Millinium hasn;t started.

But if you believe that in what year did it start according to preterists. And do remember it is a 1,000 years. And please be specific, and what event started it in world past history.

Thanks

Hoping this shocks you into reality....and out of the dreamstate you are in. For bro, the next war will come and there shall be more wars and plagues and earthquakes and NO Jesus is not reigning in the world as of now, as the god of this world is in charge until he is defeated by the Lord after the tribulation.

Preterist doctrine puts you to sleep and then allows you to sleep, but the real world and the Lord is trying to get you to wake up. For as mentioned you still do have time.

Jesus is not going to stop the next war, the Millinium hasn't started brethren. You are not ruling and reigning with Christ here on earth, the devils people are reigning...can't you tell the difference.

David

[Rubia Warren]

Wait a minute-
do preterists believe that Satan is right now actually bound? Is this true? How can Satan be bound at this time? I'm not debating, just wondering. Many things that the preterists believe, I understand, but I don't see how Satan could be bound right now, unless I have misunderstood. So, somebody (preferably a preterist) clear this up, will ya?

[joelkaki]

Satan's binding is not as we would understand it. If you want a very good explanation of it, go to the DDW-Jaltus debate on the Eschatology page--DD does a good job.


Joel

[David]

exactly Rubia, common sense tells you that of course Satan is NOT bound, he is alive and well and awaiting for his three and a half years of full glory, and then he even thinks he will win the Battle of Armegeddon by changing Prophecy. he is totally demented and yet the world will follow him via the now present anti-chrsit countries until he brings his One world leader to the forefront and takes total control. has nobody here even heard about the Mark of the beast. Not one ??

So Yes Rubia, your simple honest question has to be answered for this isn;t some kind of spioritual game but extremely important as our lives will depend on our interpretation and determines whether we will be prepared spiritually for what's ahead....

02-22-2003 @ 03:40 PM
La Rubia:

Wait a minute-
do preterists believe that Satan is right now actually bound? Is this true? How can Satan be bound at this time? I'm not debating, just wondering. Many things that the preterists believe, I understand, but I don't see how Satan could be bound right now, unless I have misunderstood. So, somebody (preferably a preterist) clear this up, will ya?

So there's your challenge preterist..Rubia wants an answer, cause it seems when she reads the paper it is chaos rather the peaceful rule of Jesus Christ and us regning with him as kings and priests as he so distinctly said in so many places...

She asked, so you should respond.. Thanks Rubia for honesty


david

[joelkaki]

OK, fine. DeeDee's eloquence is much greater than mine, thus I referred to her post. However, I will state what I believe the Bible to say.


First of all, an important point is this (I say this very often): The newspaper is not our source for truth. The Bible is. So if the Bible says something has happened, is happening, or will happen, then we must accept it as truth, whether we recognize the full implications of it in every day life as shown in the paper or not.

Now, as to Satan's binding. "Binding" does not mean that Satan has no more power to do anything whatsoever. Notice the specific purpose of the binding as expressed in Revelation 20:2,3--"He laid hold of the Dragon, that serpent of old, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years; and he cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal on him, so that he should deceive the nations no more till the thousand years were finished..." The purpose is clearly to keep Satan from deceiving the nations. It is not to restrain every act of Satan. "Deceiving the nations", what could that refer to? Think back to Old Testament times: Only Israelites were saved by and large, with a few limited exceptions. The nations were deceived. They were deceived so that they could not know God. Remember what Christ said: " I will draw all peoples to myself." Christ's public ministry leading to his death, burial, resurrection, and ascension was binding Satan's forces, evidenced by Christ and his disciples casting out demons. In drawing all peoples, he was causing the nations to be "undeceived." Salvation came to the Gentiles through his death on the cross. (Eph 2:11-22). The nations were no longer deceived as the were in the OT. Notice what Jesus tells us in Matthew 12:26-29--
"If Satan casts out Satan, he is divided against himself; how then will his kingdom stand? If I by Beelzebub cast out demons, by whom do your sons cast them out? For this reason they will be your judges. But if I cast out demons by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God has come upon you. Or how can anyone enter the strong man's house and carry off his property, unless he first bind the strong man? And then He will plunder his house."
Christ very clearly tells us that the kingdom came upon them with his casting out of demons. He was binding the strong man (Satan) so that he could plunder his house. It is very clear that Christ has bound the strong man so that he cannot deceive the nations. The universal (Jews and Gentiles) kingdom of God has come. The nations are no longer deceived. The message of the cross of Christ has been proclaimed to the Gentiles, to the nations.

Here is one more text clearly demonstrating that binding does not mean all cessation of activity:
"And angels who did not keep their own domain, but abandoned their proper abode, He has kept in eternal bonds under darkness for the judgement of the great day." (Jude 6) The demons are now bound. We do not need to look for a future binding. They are bound now. And so it Satan, their master. He can no longer deceive the nations. The gospel of Christ will continue to go out to all the nations till it fills the whole earth.

Joel

[Rubia Warren]

Er, I don't have any scripture handy, but I thought there would be peace while he's bound. Somebody help me out, because I don't see peace. Even without looking in my newspaper to figure out the prophecies.... it seems there has not been any peace- especially not for a thousand years. If this is peace, then I'm sorry, then there's really nothing to look forward to or hope for. I'm sure there is something about this that I am missing- and I will admit, I am quite ignorant on this subject (especially about preterism), so please don't take what I say the wrong way- or don't let it rub you the wrong way, I just do not get this part at all. I am going to check out the other thread, though. Thanks, joel.

[joelkaki]

I am not aware of Scriptures saying there will be peace in the millennium.


Joel

[David]

The Millinium is a time of Peace on Earth as mentioned in revelation and elsewhere including Isaiah and many other prophets.

Jesus literally rules and reigns from Jerusalem for now it is Sodom according to Revelation, and you can understand why. The devil will take total control of his world for a short time called the tribualtion and it will be the worst time in world history compared with no other time.
And yet the lion shall lay down with the lamb in the Millinium and that is not happenning now, and Jesus is not hidden away in Jerusalem, and no Christians are ruling and reigning on Earth unless you can name one.

Got to go..

David

[joelkaki]

You have admitted you have no timelines and could never ever have one. So tell us what your next prophetic event is, or just tell us there is no future and the Lord has stopped talking.

Your arguments are all straw men. Christ will return and judge, thus there is a future. We could have a timeline. However, I do not see that it is critical.

No offense Popeye but there is no way in the world you could substanitate such a scenario with scriptures and a timeline.

It has been substantiated all over this board with Scriptures. You won't respond, simply saying, "I don't have time to deal with the past." We have presented Scriptures, so don't straw man us.
You make it seem like if we don't have a timeline, we are lower class citizens and that there isn't a possibility we could be right. Timelines aren't the be all and end all, so whether we have one or not proves nothing.


Joel

[David]

Joel,

This threadf is about revelations of the future and not how little preterists understand because they would have zero idea about revelation. They basically just isolate a few scriptures in Daniel 9.

So you definitely aren;t second class citizens just not very bright ones, and will have zero oil in your lamp as the days grow darker.

Prophecy prepares us for the future and dircets our ways not just believeing that Jesus will return, for of course He will, but what are the events that happen before His return as described by All His Prophets, for they spoke all about our Time , the End Time and the Last 7 years.

Preterists can have no idea about these things the Ac the Temple, the trib, the Wrath, the vials, the wars the plagues as they errantly think they are past tense.

So again I repeat this thread is about the future after the horrific war in Iraq, you do know there is a war on, don;t you, and you do know how it fits into true prophecy don;t you. And you do know what to look for don;t you....

I quess not as you think jesus will come back and deliver you before hand so you don;t have to go through anything......

That's your choice, but in the real world, such won;t be the case....

Got to go

David

[Woman]

David - how about an all text version that's linear.

I'm a reasonably intelligent person and can't make it through either of the current versions.

[David]

Popeye,

Wake up,

You and Jesus are not reigning.... NOW

Have you not read about the Uraq War or SARS or the famines in Africa and the the right wing churches condonning of violence.

Jesus is not reigning, get your prophecy together and get in the real world.

Woman there are over 160 posting on every aspect of almost every detail of the timeline on four Boards starting with
the basics at http://www.geocities.com/davidjayjordan/Prophecymysteries.html

But seeing you have already made your mind up and called me a "nut", it seems you didn;t try and understand in the first place.
So maybe you were describing yourself.

[Lizard]

Today @ 10:02 AM post located here (http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=61634#post61634)
David:

Popeye,

Wake up,

You and Jesus are not reigning.... NOW

Have you not read about the Uraq War or SARS or the famines in Africa and the the right wing churches condonning of violence.

Jesus is not reigning, get your prophecy together and get in the real world.

Woman there are over 160 posting on every aspect of almost every detail of the timeline on four Boards starting with
the basics at http://www.geocities.com/davidjayjordan/Prophecymysteries.html

But seeing you have already made your mind up and called me a "nut", it seems you didn;t try and understand in the first place.
So maybe you were describing yourself.

Well David, I have tried and tried to understand your "simple" timeline. I have been to your web site several times. I have asked again and again for a simple explanation of your position using scripture. I have even given you an example of how to do this. You have point blank refused to do this, as if you really had no interest in changing my mind from the "mindless" to use your word, position of preterism. IMHO you refuse to provide a simple, scripture based explanaition (and assertions are not the same thing as explanations) for one of two reasons:

1) You are unable to provide a simple scripture based explanation.

OR

2) You realize that if you do present a scripture based explanation everyone would see how convoluted (this is the nicest word I could think of) your position really is.

[Hitch]

So again I repeat this thread is about the future after the horrific war in Iraq, you do know there is a war on, don;t you, and you do know how it fits into true prophecy don;t you. And you do know what to look for don;t you....

LMBO

[David]

Hitch,

At least Far, is trying to understand the simpliest of timelines that anybody with Grade 5 education can follow and which is backed yp in words in over 160 English postings with innumerable scriptures that again any Grade 5 computer student could go through and understand. But you Hitch get totally off beam and try to suggest that America is godly and that its soldiers are brave in capturing and securing oil for America's greed.

Please understand Bible principles and America's violations of them thru-out its history, read current events from the rest of the world's viewpoint, and understand that America needed to break OPEC's oil monopoly so it can have cheap oil. And hence now it has all the cheap oil it can use, which makes the war worth their while...it is hardly for Iraqui freedom as America has never allowed freedom of voting....if the elected one wasn't pro-American and under their control.
So edit your signature Hitch and make it Christian rather than anti-Christian..

David

[Hitch]

Today @ 03:35 PM post located here (http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=64049#post64049)
David:

Hitch,

At least Far, is trying to understand the simpliest of timelines that anybody with Grade 5 education can follow and which is backed yp in words in over 160 English postings with innumerable scriptures that again any Grade 5 computer student could go through and understand. But you Hitch get totally off beam and try to suggest that America is godly and that its soldiers are brave in capturing and securing oil for America's greed.

Please understand Bible principles and America's violations of them thru-out its history, read current events from the rest of the world's viewpoint, and understand that America needed to break OPEC's oil monopoly so it can have cheap oil. And hence now it has all the cheap oil it can use, which makes the war worth their while...it is hardly for Iraqui freedom as America has never allowed freedom of voting....if the elected one wasn't pro-American and under their control.
So edit your signature Hitch and make it Christian rather than anti-Christian..

David Id say bovine excrement but with you its more like calf pucky.

Keep talikng you're a real crack up. It's clowns like you who help demonstrate the idiocy of futurism, and that is why you are here. Regardless of what you have intended.

Hitch

[joelkaki]

04-05-2003 @ 06:36 PM post located here (http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=55951#post55951)
David:

Joel,

This threadf is about revelations of the future and not how little preterists understand because they would have zero idea about revelation. They basically just isolate a few scriptures in Daniel 9.

I thought this thread was about prophecy. You assert (not prove) that necessarily means the future. You need to back up your position.
You obviously don't read many preterist posts around here, because the volume of Scripture is overwhelming. It is definitely not just a few Scriptures in Daniel 9.


So you definitely aren;t second class citizens just not very bright ones, and will have zero oil in your lamp as the days grow darker.

So we aren't very bright? Or, in other words, kind of stupid? Hmmm, weren't you the one a little bit back that said you don't call people stupid, just their doctrines? Your words indicate otherwise.


Prophecy prepares us for the future and dircets our ways not just believeing that Jesus will return, for of course He will, but what are the events that happen before His return as described by All His Prophets, for they spoke all about our Time , the End Time and the Last 7 years.

These are all assertions----no proof whatsoever. "Last seven years"???:huh: Please provide biblical support for that statement. You have never proven a single thing. You seem to expect us all just to fall at your feet and go read everything on your website, rather than just get some reasonable discussion with you. Most everyone else on TWeb seems to know how to carry on a civilized, informative discussion, where people present and rebut views, but so far you have shown no evidence that you either know how, or are willing to do so.


Preterists can have no idea about these things the Ac the Temple, the trib, the Wrath, the vials, the wars the plagues as they errantly think they are past tense.

So prove that they are future tense. You assert that over and over again, but you have yet to offer any proof for it. If we all just had your attitude, then TWeb would look like this:
"You futurists can't have any idea about the Trib, Revelation, etc, because you errantly think that they are in the future."
"You preterists can have no idea about the Trib, Revelation, etc, because you errantly think that they are in the past."
Sheesh, we'd get absolutely nowhere. So get down off your high horse, and quit acting like you are some all-wise Christian who has prophecy all figured out, and doesn't need any of those "preterists" (*scorn and loathing as the word is said*) around. We haven't acted like your views are completely idiotic, we have tried to be reasonable, to listen to what you have to say, but you just act like you expect us all to fall down at your feet and just take your view because *it must be right, cuz preterism's stupid.*


So again I repeat this thread is about the future after the horrific war in Iraq, you do know there is a war on, don;t you, and you do know how it fits into true prophecy don;t you. And you do know what to look for don;t you....

To answer your questions:
1. You do know there is a war on, don't you? Yes, I do. Not to mention one of the preterists here is deployed in Kuwait right now.
2. You do know how it fits into true prophecy don't you?
Hmm, let's see. I suppose yes and no fit here. Though I'll get scorn from you either way, so I suppose it doesn't much matter. Yes--It doesn't. No--I am not aware of the Bible speaking of this war, so perhaps you could enlighten me.


I quess not as you think jesus will come back and deliver you before hand so you don;t have to go through anything......

Uh, no. You seem to confuse preterism with pretribulationalism, which are about totally contrary. When Jesus comes back, THEN COMES THE END. (1 Corinthians 15:23-24). I believe that the kingdom of God will eventually triumph over evil before he comes back.


That's your choice, but in the real world, such won;t be the case....
Got to go
David

Again, more assertions. It's time to see some reason. 1 Peter 3:15 tells us to always be ready to give a defense for the hope that is in us. So far you haven't given any defense except mocking the other view.

What is kind of funny about this whole thing is that you act like your view is the only view that is worth considering, and yet your view hasn't even been around for 200 years yet. But of course, all those other 1800 years worth of Bible scholars were stupid too.

Joel

[Lizard]

Well said Joel. :thumb: You saved me a lot of writing. Thanks.

I just have one thing to add.

David,

If this is so easy that a 5th grader could understand it, then why do seem unable to explain in a way that anyone here can understand. I may be "just a stoopid preterist", but I did graduate 5th grade (and then some).

The time you spent here telling everyone how absolutely right your "theory" is, and how stoopid prterism is could have been better spent by doing a simple explanation based on scripture.

Can you say exegesis?

[Hitch]

6. The New Heaven and the New Earth: God recreates the atmospheric heavens and earth...obviously to clean up all the
pollution and garbage. Earth becomes again like the garden of Eden and peace is restored permanently. I told you there was a
happy ending.

Watching children die is a happy ending in Canada eh? Must be something in the water.


. Isa 65:17-20
17 For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.
18 But be ye glad and rejoice for ever in that which I create: for, behold, I create Jerusalem a rejoicing, and her people a joy.
19 And I will rejoice in Jerusalem, and joy in my people: and the voice of weeping shall be no more heard in her, nor the voice of crying.
20 There shall be no more thence an infant of days, nor an old man that hath not filled his days: for the child shall die an hundred years old; but the sinner being an hundred years old shall be accursed.
(KJV)

[David]

Far,

Somepeople aren;t dumb, they are just blinded as the Lord has said.

And therefore they can read and read and not get the point, so wheter its numbers or words, there is no guarantee that you will ever understand.

Besides as mentioned you can lead a horse to water, but you can;t make him drink.

But rather than desert you in your perplexities of the simpliest things

Try some posts that are more advanced and see what real progress is in deterining the future... by searching scriptures with an open mind and heart to the Lord.


*************************

From a non personal e-mail from Dan who just wrote in .... concerning prophecy...

**************************************************

Dear Dan,

Again thanks for writing Bro, and I do thank you for pin pointing a needed area of writing ....the Seven Seals. As Revelation seems to be Seven Churches, Seven seals, Seven trumpets and then Seven Vials. So even to start before giving you a response..... my initial reaction was that Dan maybe you have written the Seven Vials up and seeing we are so close, maybe I could use it as a reposting with credit to you...I have about 12 postings that are from others.

But anyway, after pondering and praying about what you said although not having a lot of time to study and research it as I would have liked..... My comments are in .....(..)

******************************

I wanted to share a couple of opinions I have held and get your reaction. Of course I believe these opinions are true but I am not so prideful that I
would not discard them if instructed otherwise by the H.S. (Exactly as we all need opinions from our searches of scriptures and yet they can be altered in time with more information and the leading of the Spirit)

I have always consider the Seven Seals to represent a chronological progression which begins immediately after the ascension unleashing history so to speak. (Agreed, although as a minor point I do think the horses were running from the beginning because the principles are from the beginning and those in the Old testament were saved by Grace and their belief in the Messiah to come just as we are saved in exactly the same way yet in belief of the Messiah that did come ... JESUS. But that is too complicated to get into, as After the Ascension is good) I have long held tat the first seals, which unleash the
four horseman, cover time from the Ascension to the last 7 years. (Right-On !!!) The last three
seals would then cover the last 7 including the 3 1/2 year tribulation. (Yes, but the tricky part is that the 7th is the 1/2 hour of silence before the start of the Tribulation. Ha but when you consider that we are sealed previous to the trib to protect us from the plagues of the trib, then the 5th Seal makes sense and is prior to the 7th. The 6th being EARTHQUAKES, but these shall start at the trib and continue thru the trib, culminating in the huge one that decimates rebuilt Babylon of all cities of the AC at the 7th Vial. So that still is chronological as you say as the Earthquake seal goes on until the final shake that brings down all the buildings of man at the seventh vial.Whew so 5, 6, and the seventh seal are unsealed in a very short length of time right in the middle of the Last 7 years IMO)

In order to get a better understanding of what I am talking about just think of the fourth horseman, hell and death, as capitalism that has devoured
the earth since it inception in the 19th century. (Hmmm.. maybe captialism is better suited for the 3rd horse as it is merchandise and the buying and selling of the so called great men or socerers of the earth, the merchants. Its economics wars kill and make the poor poor and enslaved, and so surely in cohort with military wars, they bring on death and hell. So that the 4th horse, may be more like disease and sin which are a given because we only have so much time to receive eternal life thru the white horse and the battle for souls as we must choose the Lordbefore war and economic oppression and disease, and death brings us to hell and our own personal sins we have to pay for)

By holding this view we can even see that when Jesus talks about the end of the age in the Gospels he is including all of history from his death (and from Adam, as mentioned previously) until the last 7 years and the Tribulation.

The only problem this poses with your interpretation is that it places the two witnesses in the first three 1/2 years rather than during the Tribulation which you accurately point out is during the last 31/2
years. (Don;t catch you as we are here during the tribulation) I can with an overwhelming biblical citations and logic explain why it makes
more sense to believe the two witnesses (David and Eliakim) prophesize during the first 3 1/2 years after the signing of the covenant with the 10. (Excellent excellent point..... brilliant Dan, as absolutely David and Eliakim do prophesy in the First part of the
Last 7 Years. brilliant, asthey don;t wait until the trib to speak up and out against the vile establishments of this world and they have to GATHER the Lord's elect although it is done by the Lord's Spirit in preparing each of the Lord's 144,000. I have some scriptures on this as well, but not many although it is definitely logical, as our two witnesses are not sleeping during the first part of the LastPART. Do send me your scriptures as mine are mainly in Jeremiah..)

The 5th seal unleashes them and they would be persecuted by the beast out of the sea, or the one that was and is not who the whore rides on. He,
the beast out of the sea, I will come from Russia -I agree with you- (thank the Lord !!) and
wage war on the whore and during this time the witnesses will instruct many for 42 months -the same period of time the beast out of the sea lasts- (Yes, but as you just mentioned their teaching ministry will have started to the nth degree right after the Covenant is signed as surely the Lord will rise them up and get them a goin then and NOT wait another 3 and a half years, when there is no witnessing to the Lord's sheep as the lines will have already been drawn SEE http://www.geocities.com/davidjayjordan/NoWitnessingintheTribulation.html )

Notice that after the death of the witnesses there will be an earthquake. That begins seal 6 which records the beginning of God's Judgment -look after
seal 6 there is an earthquake-

( Hmmmm.... Yes.... the scroll reference sounds like Jesus 2nd Coming, and yet there are earthquakes previous to that, and the sun and moon turn to blood previous to that as well, and after that at the Seventh Vial, there is the Mother of all Earthquakes that totally decimates all faith in man's works ...so the timing of this one is a little mysterious, but I like your chronological sequence rather tahn a disjointed one, for in chronology, the earthquakes build although the culmination is at the End of Wrath -45 dat period- as mentioned here in Revelation

And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

Rev 6:13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

Rev 6:14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.

Rev 6:15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;

Rev 6:16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that ...[Message truncated]

View Full Message

(From my BB)

All the best in your searching Far

David

[Lizard]

Also posted here, (http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/showthread.php?postid=67756#post67756) this is my last request for David. I reposted it here for the sake of readers who may not have read it in the other thread.


David I feel we are at an impasse. In order to understand your position I need for you to present it in the following matter:

03-28-2003 @ 12:01 PM post located here (http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=47024#post47024)
Faramir:

First I will provide the scripture:



Matthew 24:

1 Jesus came out from the temple and was going away when His disciples came up to point out the temple buildings to Him.
2 And He said to them, "Do you not see all these things? Truly I say to you, not one stone here will be left upon another, which will not be torn down."
3 As He was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, "Tell us, when will these things happen, and what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?"

34 "Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place.



Then I will explain why the scripture supports my position, like so:

Here Jesus and his disciples have just left the temple. Jesus tells them that the temple will be destroyed. The temple they just left. The temple that was in fact destroyed in AD70. The disciples asked when would these things take place and Jesus answered "this Generation will not pass away until all these things take place". A biblical generation is considered to be about 40 years. Jesus spoke these words around AD 30, the temple, the one that Jesus and the disciples were talking about (not some future temple) was destroyed about 40 years later in AD70. Coincidence or the divine revelation of our Savior and Lord Jesus Christ?

If you want to have any hope of me even understanding your position, this is the method you need to use.

If you will not or cannot do this, then just let me say that it has been very interesting, if not illuminating discussing eschatology with you.

[David]

Yes far, you at a impass.... and you have great difficulty in understanding which can't be excused because of lack of comprehension because as can be noted you can type and write and so the problem lies elsewhere as explained.

Mathew 24 is so precise and exact and yet you even mess that one up. The world was not evangelized back in 70 AD, the world was not in turmoil and war, and plaques and disease, with earthquakes. The AC has not been crowned as jesus said, Yes the first part, was fulfilled as the greedy Romans burnt the Temple and then needed to get the gold out and so torn apart the Temple stone by stone so the temple worship or church worship people would have nothing to glory in. And that was just the beginning but the end of sorrows is not yet. CXan;t you read..Far.

The abomination of desolation did not enter the Holy of Holies, and the AC was not enthroned, for only AFTERwards , after the Tribulation of exactly 1260 days, 42 months, THEN the Lord returns in the clouds. How many times do you have to be told. Far. Can't you read it for yourself.....

Otherwise if you can't then you shall be like the virgins that had no oil in their lamp, and you shall be like those of Noah's day that mocked the flood that is to come...and so read and pray and understand and if you can't then you weren't meant to ..straight forward and simple...

read Mathew 24 for the first time with your eyes open Far.... and do remember I am not responsible to teach you , you have to learn to teach yourself and study yourself and put effort into it yourself....

Sincerely

David

[Lizard]

Today @ 12:24 PM post located here (http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=72094#post72094)
David:

Yes far, you at a impass.... and you have great difficulty in understanding which can't be excused because of lack of comprehension because as can be noted you can type and write and so the problem lies elsewhere as explained.

Mathew 24 is so precise and exact and yet you even mess that one up. The world was not evangelized back in 70 AD, the world was not in turmoil and war, and plaques and disease, with earthquakes. The AC has not been crowned as jesus said, Yes the first part, was fulfilled as the greedy Romans burnt the Temple and then needed to get the gold out and so torn apart the Temple stone by stone so the temple worship or church worship people would have nothing to glory in. And that was just the beginning but the end of sorrows is not yet. CXan;t you read..Far.

The abomination of desolation did not enter the Holy of Holies, and the AC was not enthroned, for only AFTERwards , after the Tribulation of exactly 1260 days, 42 months, THEN the Lord returns in the clouds. How many times do you have to be told. Far. Can't you read it for yourself.....

Otherwise if you can't then you shall be like the virgins that had no oil in their lamp, and you shall be like those of Noah's day that mocked the flood that is to come...and so read and pray and understand and if you can't then you weren't meant to ..straight forward and simple...

read Mathew 24 for the first time with your eyes open Far.... and do remember I am not responsible to teach you , you have to learn to teach yourself and study yourself and put effort into it yourself....

Sincerely

David

David David David. I will be happy to respond to each of your points and defend the preterist position using scripture and historical analysis, not assertions. I do not have the time to do so immediately but check back here soon for an example of how to defend a position.

If another preterist wants to do this, don't wait for me to have the time. Go ahead and respond to David's post.

[Hitch]

Far, check your concordance for swine.

H

[joelkaki]

I'm going to go ahead and deal with some of David's objections.


Mathew 24 is so precise and exact and yet you even mess that one up. The world was not evangelized back in 70 AD, the world was not in turmoil and war, and plaques and disease, with earthquakes.

If you take "world" to mean the entire extent of planet earth, then of course no. But when we prod into the meanings of the original words in the text, and look at the other places they are used, we find that the word translated "world" is in other places in Scripture used to designate the known world, which at that time was the Roman Empire. In Luke 2, where it says that all the world was to be registered, it refers to the Roman Empire--the known world. And because we are governed by Jesus' own time indication in 24:34 of Matthew, we realize that "world" is the known world.
And that most definitely did happen in the first century, before the Destruction of Jerusalem in A.D. 70.

Colossians 1:5, 6--...the truth of the gospel, which has come to you, as it has also in all the world...

Paul said here, prior to A.D. 70, that the gospel had come to all the world. There are more passages saying the same, but I won't list them. The point is, Jesus' own words in Matthew 24 came true before the destruction of Jerusalem.


The AC has not been crowned as jesus said,

I take it by AC you mean Antichrist. Forgive me, but I don't see anything about THE ANTICHRIST being crowned in Matthew 24. You will need to point that out to me. It says in verses 23-28 that there will be false christS and false prophets, but makes no mention of the crowning of THE antichrist.


Yes the first part, was fulfilled as the greedy Romans burnt the Temple and then needed to get the gold out and so torn apart the Temple stone by stone so the temple worship or church worship people would have nothing to glory in. And that was just the beginning but the end of sorrows is not yet. CXan;t you read..Far.

Hmm, so you admit that this refers to the destruction of Jerusalem in A.D. 70. You cannot maintain that amidst you other remarks. Oh, and the "church worship people" were not to glory in the temple. The temple lost any "glory" it had when the Jews rejected God. Christ is the true temple, as are we, His body. There is no need of a physical, material temple. Indeed, the destruction of Jerusalem was God's wrath on the Jewish nation for rejecting Him, for they had said, "His blood be on us and on our children."


The abomination of desolation did not enter the Holy of Holies,

Really? You admitted that "the first part" (whatever you were specifically referring to there) was fulfilled by the Romans in the 1st Century. Now, if that is the case, then there is no reason to think verse 15 would be any different. And when we compare with Luke 21:20--"But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation is near." Jesus was speaking to his disciples, telling them that they would know the desolation of Jerusalem was near when it was surrounded by armies. When was Jerusalem surrounded by armies? Within Jesus' own time frame of a generation, in A.D. 70. And those in Judea were to flee at this surrrounding of Jerusalem. And back to MAtthew 24--when they saw the abomination of Desolation, they were to flee to the mountains. These are not events separated by thousands of years. The abomination of desolation did certainly happen in A.D. 70.


and the AC was not enthroned, for only AFTERwards , after the Tribulation of exactly 1260 days, 42 months, THEN the Lord returns in the clouds. How many times do you have to be told. Far. Can't you read it for yourself.....

I still don't see anything about the AC being enthroned. You act like this is intuitively obvious to the most casual observer, and yet I have read MAtthew 24 over and over, and do not see anything about an AC being enthroned. And in Matthew 24, which we are presently discussing, there is no mention of a period of 1260 days. Such would be found in Revelation, though not with the meaning you attach to it.


Otherwise if you can't then you shall be like the virgins that had no oil in their lamp, and you shall be like those of Noah's day that mocked the flood that is to come...and so read and pray and understand and if you can't then you weren't meant to ..straight forward and simple...

read Mathew 24 for the first time with your eyes open Far.... and do remember I am not responsible to teach you , you have to learn to teach yourself and study yourself and put effort into it yourself....

Sincerely

David

WHy don't you read it again as well?

Joel

[Lizard]

What Joel Said. :thumb:

[David]

Joel,

When you are blinded and see only past tense trees and never have seen the overall vision and prophecy and Forest of the Lord, you stmble over the smallest gnats, and groan and complain about every detail of prophecy and totally miss it. Joel.

But if that's what you want, that's what you get Prophecy is connected Joel, it is consistent it is from every angle from All the prophets , it is not disjointed and totally mixed up and confused as you have made it.

David

[Hitch]

LMBO

[Lizard]

Gee David. Us preterist could say pretty much the same thing about your position. In fact I think I will.

The below is a satirical parody of your above quote. The parody poster I aptly named Anti-David. To make it easy, I underlined all the words I changed to turn your quote into a preterist parody.

I give this explanation for you David, as I am sure that the preterist here can figure it out for themselves.




David,

When you are blinded and see only present tense trees and never have seen the overall vision and prophecy and Forest of the Lord, you stmble over the smallest gnats, and groan and complain about every detail of prophecy and totally miss it. David.

But if that's what you want, that's what you get Prophecy is connected David, it is consistent it is from every angle from All the prophets , it is not disjointed and totally mixed up and confused as you have made it.

Anti-David

[joelkaki]

David, you simply assert that our interpretation is wrong. You have offered absolutely no proof to back up such an assertion.
As such, your presence here serves no purpose whatsoever.

Joel

[Hitch]

Where did you get my picture FF?

[David]

Dear Woman,

04-06-2003 @ 12:46 AM post located here (http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=55982#post55982)
Woman:

David - how about an all text version that's linear.

I'm a reasonably intelligent person and can't make it through either of the current versions.

Yes it takes time and discernment to read the timeline, but the Daniel timeline is much easier.

But for a word descriptiuon I have four Different Boards with all the details most would need.

http://www.geocities.com/davidjayjordan/Prophecymysteries.html

http://www.geocities.com/davidjayjordan/Prophecymysteries2.html

http://www.geocities.com/davidjayjordan/Prophecymysteries3.html

and the AC Board

http://www.geocities.com/davidjayjordan/Anti-ChristsProphecies.html

So it's different strokes for different folks, as sometimes people understand words more than numbers and lines

If you have queries do ask

Love in Jesus

David