On the issue of Free Will

[AngelDragon]

I hope I'm in the right place. . . .:eek:

I've asked many people this same question, to no avail. Hopefully, you guys can help.

The problem of free will comes up a lot. "How can we have free will and an all-knowing God? If God knows the future, then He knows what you will do before you do it, and so we have no free will."

This is usually responded to with this: "Humanity makes it's own choices. God may know what will happen, but the fact remains that the only reason it happened was by the choices of the people involved."

Now, this responce is all well and good, but sometimes when I use it, an argument like this one will come up:

"Okay, but what if God influences those choices? Take for example the Tree of Knowledge: If God knew Adam would eat the Forbidden Fruit, then why did God plant the tree there in the first place? Just to punish Adam and Eve, and thus all of humanity? And why did God create Satan, if He knew that he would rebel and cause so much pain?"

I have no responce to this. I doubt anybody does. I can live without knowing the answer until I meet God myself, but if possible, I'd rather learn it now. :teeth:

Does anybody have an answer?

[National Intelligence Director Phoenix]

I hope I'm in the right place. . . .:eek:

I've asked many people this same question, to no avail. Hopefully, you guys can help.

The problem of free will comes up a lot. "How can we have free will and an all-knowing God? If God knows the future, then He knows what you will do before you do it, and so we have no free will."

This is usually responded to with this: "Humanity makes it's own choices. God may know what will happen, but the fact remains that the only reason it happened was by the choices of the people involved."

Now, this responce is all well and good, but sometimes when I use it, an argument like this one will come up:

"Okay, but what if God influences those choices? Take for example the Tree of Knowledge: If God knew Adam would eat the Forbidden Fruit, then why did God plant the tree there in the first place? Just to punish Adam and Eve, and thus all of humanity? And why did God create Satan, if He knew that he would rebel and cause so much pain?"

I have no responce to this. I doubt anybody does. I can live without knowing the answer until I meet God myself, but if possible, I'd rather learn it now. :teeth:

Does anybody have an answer?

Hi AngelDragon! Thanks for the question!

I'd say in this case, there are no easy answers, but let's state some things.

First off, God does know the end from the beginning. I believe this is shown all throughout Scripture.

Secondly, I believe free-will is just as much shown.

Now how do these get reconciled? The way you said. God knows our decisions without causing them.

Why create creatures that will rebel? I'd say because the possibility of loving always includes that of not-loving, and the only way to avoid that would be to control the choices made. God can influence, but I do not see him controlling choices. Ultimately, if someone winds up in Hell for instance, they have no one to blame but themselves.

This is why I believe God put the tree in the garden. Adam and Eve needed to be able to love, but also have the possibility to not love. Of course, God knew they would actualize this though, but it still had to be there for it to be a real choice.

Why Satan? Because angels have to have choice. It seems God would not be really interested in freedom if he only created creatures that he knew would love him. Again, there is much I'm still digesting on this point. I wouldn't say this is a total answer, but it is an answer for now.

Hope this helps!

[themuzicman]

I hope I'm in the right place. . . .:eek:

I've asked many people this same question, to no avail. Hopefully, you guys can help.

The problem of free will comes up a lot. "How can we have free will and an all-knowing God? If God knows the future, then He knows what you will do before you do it, and so we have no free will."

This is usually responded to with this: "Humanity makes it's own choices. God may know what will happen, but the fact remains that the only reason it happened was by the choices of the people involved."

Now, this responce is all well and good, but sometimes when I use it, an argument like this one will come up:

"Okay, but what if God influences those choices? Take for example the Tree of Knowledge: If God knew Adam would eat the Forbidden Fruit, then why did God plant the tree there in the first place? Just to punish Adam and Eve, and thus all of humanity? And why did God create Satan, if He knew that he would rebel and cause so much pain?"

I have no responce to this. I doubt anybody does. I can live without knowing the answer until I meet God myself, but if possible, I'd rather learn it now. :teeth:

Does anybody have an answer?

I think the problem is how we view "all knowing." We seem to have assumed in that statement that the exact course of the future is knowable, and thus God must know it.

However, we acknowledge that God doesn't know a square circle or how large a rock to make such that HE cannot lift it. These things are logically unknowable, but we still say that God is all-knowing

Now apply that to the future. If the future is logically unknowable, then God is still all-knowing without having knowledge of the future.

This, then, resolves the problem of free will and exhaustive, definite foreknowledge.

(Welcome to Open View Thiesm)

Michael

[AngelDragon]

Hi AngelDragon! Thanks for the question!

I'd say in this case, there are no easy answers, but let's state some things.

First off, God does know the end from the beginning. I believe this is shown all throughout Scripture.

Secondly, I believe free-will is just as much shown.

Now how do these get reconciled? The way you said. God knows our decisions without causing them.

Why create creatures that will rebel? I'd say because the possibility of loving always includes that of not-loving, and the only way to avoid that would be to control the choices made. God can influence, but I do not see him controlling choices. Ultimately, if someone winds up in Hell for instance, they have no one to blame but themselves.

This is why I believe God put the tree in the garden. Adam and Eve needed to be able to love, but also have the possibility to not love. Of course, God knew they would actualize this though, but it still had to be there for it to be a real choice.

Why Satan? Because angels have to have choice. It seems God would not be really interested in freedom if he only created creatures that he knew would love him. Again, there is much I'm still digesting on this point. I wouldn't say this is a total answer, but it is an answer for now.

Hope this helps!

That's a good answer, though I doubt it would satisfy some people.:sigh:

Thanks!

[AngelDragon]

I think the problem is how we view "all knowing." We seem to have assumed in that statement that the exact course of the future is knowable, and thus God must know it.

However, we acknowledge that God doesn't know a square circle or how large a rock to make such that HE cannot lift it. These things are logically unknowable, but we still say that God is all-knowing

Now apply that to the future. If the future is logically unknowable, then God is still all-knowing without having knowledge of the future.

This, then, resolves the problem of free will and exhaustive, definite foreknowledge.

(Welcome to Open View Thiesm)

Michael

It would, but God is always in the future, isn't He? Always in the past, present, and future, all at the same time, with time being non-existant, and God seeing every possible event in every possible timeframe? Look at it this way: Humanity sees time as a line drawn on a piece of paper, always moving in one direction, starting at one point and ending at another. But God would be more like the paper on which the line is drawn, on all points on the line at the exacts same time.

Also, God said that to Him, yesterday's sins are as today's sins, meaning it doesn't matter if you lied about taking a cookie from the cookie jar twenty years ago; You're still guilty of it today.

Now, applying that to what you said, I highly doubt that God does not know the future, though it could be possible.

Now, if you'll excuse me, I need to go somewhere where my head can explode.:dizzy:

Thanks for the welcome.