What do you think were the most major events in American political history?

[dizzle]

I am right now listening to a historical work called The Forgotten Man by Amity Shlaes- and like all history, it is being interpreted in a specific way by the author, I realize that, but in trying to filter out the bias and just listen to the facts, I have come to a dislike of Roosevelt's tactics during the depression era and see a great many of what I see as the unAmerican crap we have today as completely the spawn of that time. The other major event I think obviously was the civil war.

[Raptor]

Politics have always been contentious, even during the time of the founding fathers.

What does Shlaes mean by the "Forgotten Man"?

[dizzle]

Politics have always been contentious, even during the time of the founding fathers.

What does Shlaes mean by the "Forgotten Man"?

It is interesting - he traces the origin of that term in which it was used to mean the middle person who shouldered the burden of entitlement programs. Roosevelt hijacked it to mean the exact opposite, and I despise when people to do that, to mean those he thought should be supported by everybody else. So the book goes through and examines "the forgotten man" card played by various sides and how this shifts, with the author's general bias being evident that he agrees that the true forgotten man is the one funding current entitlement programs that will only bankrupt the country and are doing the unethical robbery of future generation to give a "right" of entitlement to the current generation.

Politicis have of course been contentious, but there are true turning points. Roosevelt was a huge turning point in way that other presidents were not - in the type of grand scale that Lincoln was I think.

Socialism makes me want to puke.

[Timothy Leary]

I am right now listening to a historical work called The Forgotten Man by Amity Shlaes- and like all history, it is being interpreted in a specific way by the author, I realize that, but in trying to filter out the bias and just listen to the facts, I have come to a dislike of Roosevelt's tactics during the depression era and see a great many of what I see as the unAmerican crap we have today as completely the spawn of that time. The other major event I think obviously was the civil war.

The Trail of Tears comes to my mind, and the japanese internment camps in our own country.

[Amazing Rando]

Civil Rights movement.

[dizzle]

The Trail of Tears comes to my mind, and the japanese internment camps in our own country.

Yes, I also just listened to another historical work called "O What a Slaughter" about the American Indians. Very good work, and in that, I think the author was much more careful to hide any bias than this current work I am listening to.

[dizzle]

Civil Rights movement.

Maybe I wasn't precise enough, I am referring I guess more to things down on the national level by government - and the CRM I see more of a grass roots up type of thing. Definitely a huge and needed impact.

[dizzle]

Oh and I haven't learned much about the Japanese internment camps, that is another area of American history that I am eager to learn about.

[Tfbandie]

I think the decision to use of atomic weapons at the end of WW2 is a major event to truly shock and awe the world and then foster in the cold war

[NeilUnreal]

It's already been mentioned, but the biggest one in my opinion was the Civil War. As Ken Burns pointed out, it was the event that made us a nation, in some ways even more so than the Revolution.

I think the Great Depression, which involved huge internal migrations, also did a lot to define us as a nation.

WWII and its aftermath turned us from being a nation of myriad discrete neighborhoods into being a nation of relatively monocultural suburbs, and so has had a huge effect on the last sixty years.

-Neil

[Ratnat]

It is interesting - he traces the origin of that term in which it was used to mean the middle person who shouldered the burden of entitlement programs. Roosevelt hijacked it to mean the exact opposite, and I despise when people to do that, to mean those he thought should be supported by everybody else. So the book goes through and examines "the forgotten man" card played by various sides and how this shifts, with the author's general bias being evident that he agrees that the true forgotten man is the one funding current entitlement programs that will only bankrupt the country and are doing the unethical robbery of future generation to give a "right" of entitlement to the current generation.

Politicis have of course been contentious, but there are true turning points. Roosevelt was a huge turning point in way that other presidents were not - in the type of grand scale that Lincoln was I think.

Socialism makes me want to puke.

I too think Lincoln and FDR were "turning point" leaders in the history of the US.

Why does socialism make you want to puke? I think it gets a bad rap sometimes because it is misunderstood. I think socialism on the local level up through the state level is most effective but realize it often fails at the federal level.

I don't think entitlement programs are to blame as much as the squandering of our public funds to engage in unwarranted military exploits.

Morally speaking, I would rather have my money go to feed the 21 year old single mom with 3 kids or the 85 year old grandmother or even educate the child of an undocumented immigrant than to risk killing an innocent family in a foreign country.

[dizzle]

I too think Lincoln and FDR were "turning point" leaders in the history of the US.

Yes obviously I agree absolutely.



Why does socialism make you want to puke? I think it gets a bad rap sometimes because it is misunderstood. I think socialism on the local level up through the state level is most effective but realize it often fails at the federal level.

It is immoral and thievery. It is social DRM and will always utterly fail leaving blood in its wake eventually.



Morally speaking, I would rather have my money go to feed the 21 year old single mom with 3 kids or the 85 year old grandmother or even educate the child of an undocumented immigrant than to risk killing an innocent family in a foreign country.

Morally I think you SHOULD have that choice. Not Big Brother or Sister if socialist-leaning Hillary (God forbid ) gets elected.

[dizzle]

It's already been mentioned, but the biggest one in my opinion was the Civil War. As Ken Burns pointed out, it was the event that made us a nation, in some ways even more so than the Revolution.

I think the Great Depression, which involved huge internal migrations, also did a lot to define us as a nation.

WWII and its aftermath turned us from being a nation of myriad discrete neighborhoods into being a nation of relatively monocultural suburbs, and so has had a huge effect on the last sixty years.

-Neil

I know it is alleged that Lincoln abused the Presidency and some of his actions during the Civil War, and I am learning a bit now of some of the moves that FDR did, that we are suffering from today.

I wish we had "the Four Horsemen" of that Supreme Court that existed back then.

[Philosophickle]

The Patriot Act.

[Timothy Leary]

Yes, I also just listened to another historical work called "O What a Slaughter" about the American Indians. Very good work, and in that, I think the author was much more careful to hide any bias than this current work I am listening to.

I'm thinking about visiting one of the camps (2 are within a day's drive) this spring

The Betrayal Act.

fixed.

[dizzle]

The Patriot Act.

Yes I think that will go down as one as well. I think this whole decade is going to one of the critically pivotal ones.

[$cirisme]

I am right now listening to a historical work called The Forgotten Man by Amity Shlaes- and like all history, it is being interpreted in a specific way by the author, I realize that, but in trying to filter out the bias and just listen to the facts, I have come to a dislike of Roosevelt's tactics during the depression era and see a great many of what I see as the unAmerican crap we have today as completely the spawn of that time. The other major event I think obviously was the civil war.

1917 Bolshevik Revolution in Russia. Not an American political event? Oh, I disagree quite strongly. This is easily where the Cold War began, and drastically affected US/Russian relations in WWII, the Cold War, and most politics from then until today has been impacted, often strongly, by the rise of communism.

[dizzle]

1917 Bolshevik Revolution in Russia. Not an American political event? Oh, I disagree quite strongly. This is easily where the Cold War began, and drastically affected US/Russian relations in WWII, the Cold War, and most politics from then until today has been impacted, often strongly, by the rise of communism.

I agree, that is a major theme of the book I am listening to - major political players at that time completely fawned over the system being set up and chose to turn a blind eye as long as they could to Lenin's abuses.

[Hitch]

I am right now listening to a historical work called The Forgotten Man by Amity Shlaes- and like all history, it is being interpreted in a specific way by the author, I realize that, but in trying to filter out the bias and just listen to the facts, I have come to a dislike of Roosevelt's tactics during the depression era and see a great many of what I see as the unAmerican crap we have today as completely the spawn of that time. The other major event I think obviously was the civil war.Im surprized it took so much for you to catch on.
And you're right about the Civil War too.

[NeilUnreal]

This is easily where the Cold War began...

To say nothing of the little-known fact the that U.S. landed troops at Archangel in 1918 in support of the russian White Army.

-Neil

[Sheepdog]

oh must resist.... i still have to finish packing tonight.....

there is so much that can be said about Hoover's New Deal (err... FDR's... well, it did start under Hoover), about how government intervention rather than unchecked capitalism caused the Great Depression, about how FDR created a chaotic environment where only those who already had sunk costs or were mad as a hatter would invest in job creation, and about how he is the first President to start a depression within a depression. fewer people would be interventionists and socialists if our text books didn't gloss over the horrific history of such policies.

[Teallaura]

The signing of the Mayflower Compact

The Signing of the Declaration of Independence

The Constitutional Convention

Reconstruction

(:argh: I can't think of the name!) The decision that established 'separate but equal' (also a contender for the stupidest thing ever to come out of the SC)

The Civil Rights Act (Johnson deserved way more credit than Kennedy for this)

The Vietnam War

Containment (I know it was a policy but its impact on the FP landscape was gigantic)

[Raptor]

(:argh: I can't think of the name!) The decision that established 'separate but equal' (also a contender for the stupidest thing ever to come out of the SC)

Plessy vs Ferguson?

[Teallaura]

Plessy vs Ferguson?
:glomp: That's it!!!! Thanks!!!

[Timothy Leary]

I disagree... the great depression was created by our monetary policies at the time. They had increased the monetary supply too much, and then overcorrected by cutting the monetary supply to 1/3 of what it had been previous to the great depression. That there is the biggest factor behind our great depression, IMO.

oh must resist.... i still have to finish packing tonight.....

there is so much that can be said about Hoover's New Deal (err... FDR's... well, it did start under Hoover), about how government intervention rather than unchecked capitalism caused the Great Depression, about how FDR created a chaotic environment where only those who already had sunk costs or were mad as a hatter would invest in job creation, and about how he is the first President to start a depression within a depression. fewer people would be interventionists and socialists if our text books didn't gloss over the horrific history of such policies.

[Philosophickle]

Whenever we decided to allow women to talk free-reign. I hear that staple-gun sales plummeted as well, causing 17 people to lose their homes.

[Spinyn00bman]

The reconstruction era.

[Thomas More]

I am right now listening to a historical work called The Forgotten Man by Amity Shlaes- and like all history, it is being interpreted in a specific way by the author, I realize that, but in trying to filter out the bias and just listen to the facts, I have come to a dislike of Roosevelt's tactics during the depression era and see a great many of what I see as the unAmerican crap we have today as completely the spawn of that time. The other major event I think obviously was the civil war.

The closest you will get to calling it as is in modern historians is Robert Leckie who tends to call a spade a spade.

So far as unmentioned events.

The wars with the Barbary Pirates (Set precedent for forien intervention when our interest were threatened)
The drafting of the Monroe Docterine (The single most important event in US political history, it has shaded almost everything to follow)
The Creek War (Sending Mexicans back home)
The Mexican American War ( we still have not learned not to negotiate with dictators, we always get screwed)
The opening of relations with Japan
The Philippines.War (our great experiment with colonialism and imperialism)
The Korean War (the one time the UN worked, sort of)

[Jimmy Higgins]

Mayflower Compact was a small but significant event.

Not yet mentioned, Marbury v Madison setting the court as a big power.

Only one person mentioned it, but as per the OP title, it's perhaps one of the biggest, the Monroe Doctrine as it tried to give the US a global voice.

Lincoln deciding to keep the Union together and fight the Civil War.

The entire Reconstruction period, especially the 14th Amendment, which ended with the bizarre election between Hayes and Tilden.

The New Deal introduced more government intervention. I personally like how people love to second guess those decisions... based on knowledge of economics we've obtained over the 70 years after... that they didn't have!!!

Someone noted the Civil Rights era not being political... well, you'dhave to discount a lot of bills that Johnson sent through Congress at the beginning of his first term. He finished what Kennedy started. Also, the intervention in Little Rock using the military. That was a pretty big statement by the Federal Government saying this is what it is going to be.

Vietnam War started an awful habit of writing off the cost of a war instead of paying it in real time like they did in the good ole days.

[Jimmy Higgins]

The Korean War (the one time the UN worked, sort of)
Lest we forget that Woodrow Wilson's dream of the League of Nations was to prevent wars, not to be able to solve all of the world's problems. And speaking of success... I'd say the UN offered a substantially useful forum for the Cuban Missile Crisis.

[themuzicman]

I can't remember the case, but it's the one where the SCOTUS staked a claim to being able to rule on whether a law was "constitutional."

The 14th amendment (probably the biggest shift in federal power to date)

The 16th amendment (possibly the 2nd biggest)


I would say the continuance of slave trade after the establishment of the constitution, but that was more the founders failing to engage this issue to keep the union together. To me, that sowed the seeds of discrimination and hatred against blacks which came out during the civil war when the south entrenched itself in a dying practice, and went to war because Lincoln said that all new territories would be free and not slave based.

A large turning point (although not a good one) was FDR's "New Deal", where literally millions became dependent upon the federal government. Same goes for the "War on Poverty." Created a huge entitlement mentality, and made a way for politicians to buy votes.

The CRA was probably an important element, although what followed was a mixed bag. The country needs to start crediting republicans with passing that legislation, as it was southern DEMOCRATS who opposed it.


And I think a major negative turning point in US politics was in 2000, when Al Gore refused to accept the state of Florida's declaration that he had lost, and we went into weeks and weeks of recounts and legal challenges and such. One thing I do respect John Kerry for was his refusal to follow suit in 2004 with the state of Ohio. Hopefully that's one ledge presidential candidates stay away from in the future.

Michael

[Jimmy Higgins]

I can't remember the case, but it's the one where the SCOTUS staked a claim to being able to rule on whether a law was "constitutional."Yeah... that'd be Marbury v Madison as I noted previously.

The 14th amendment (probably the biggest shift in federal power to date)I'd beg to differ. It was not about shifting power from the states to the federal government. It was about extending federally granted rights in the Constitution to the people.

The CRA was probably an important element, although what followed was a mixed bag. The country needs to start crediting republicans with passing that legislation, as it was southern DEMOCRATS who opposed it.Yeah... which was why they decided to leave the party and join the Republicans.

And I think a major negative turning point in US politics was in 2000, when Al Gore refused to accept the state of Florida's declaration that he had lost, and we went into weeks and weeks of recounts and legal challenges and such. One thing I do respect John Kerry for was his refusal to follow suit in 2004 with the state of Ohio. Hopefully that's one ledge presidential candidates stay away from in the future.Al Gore didn't seek the US Supreme Court to intervene... nor did he start the first court case... that was Bush. Also comparing Ohio with Florida is a bit dull, seeing the winning margin in Florida was in the thousandth of a percent. Bush took Ohio by a substantially larger amount than that. Oddly enough, in 2000, the Republicans asked for a recount in New Mexico. I don't believe the Democrats made a big deal about it.

The big bad in 2000 was Katherine Harris who did everything she could to keep recounts from happening. 2000 Timeline (http://www.usnews.com/usnews/news/election/magtimeline.htm)

[themuzicman]

Yeah... that'd be Marbury v Madison as I noted previously.

Thank you. I wasn't sure.

I'd beg to differ. It was not about shifting power from the states to the federal government. It was about extending federally granted rights in the Constitution to the people.

And inserting the federal government into state's legislative business.

Yeah... which was why they decided to leave the party and join the Republicans.

They left to join the party that opposed them in Civil rights.. yeeeaah...

Al Gore didn't seek the US Supreme Court to intervene... nor did he start the first court case... that was Bush.

The point was that Gore was demanding what he didn't have a right to ask for.

Also comparing Ohio with Florida is a bit dull, seeing the winning margin in Florida was in the thousandth of a percent. Bush took Ohio by a substantially larger amount than that. Oddly enough, in 2000, the Republicans asked for a recount in New Mexico. I don't believe the Democrats made a big deal about it.

The point is that Al Gore made a huge national issue out of Florida, which was a major embarrassment for the electoral process. Certainly Bush's response wasn't perfect, but he wasn't driving the madness.

And I think the point about Kerry was that he refused to demand one in spite of what the rest of his party were pushing him to do. I don't think we want every presidential election to descend into what Florida was in 2000. We're not a 3rd world nation.

The big bad in 2000 was Katherine Harris who did everything she could to keep recounts from happening.

I think Kathrine Harris, like many in the state process, knew that going through this would be a very painful and potentially damaging process for both the state of Florida and the future of US elections in general.

The legislature of Florida gave her the power to make the decisions that she did, and that power came from the US constitution which empowers the states' legislature to select its electors. It took the SCOTUS to finally affirm this.

Michael

[Jimmy Higgins]

And inserting the federal government into state's legislative business.That regarded the rights of all Americans. It was about expanding rights into the States.

They left to join the party that opposed them in Civil rights.. yeeeaah...Yeah... they did.
Here is a little article (http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1282/is_20_52/ai_65805942).

Some southerners remained Republican: Residents of mountain counties in Virginia, western North Carolina, eastern Tennessee, and northwestern Arkansas had joined the party during the Civil War as an act of contempt for the Democratic elites that favored secession. They provided most of the leaders of the southern GOP into the 1960s. In addition, until the 1930s most southern blacks were Republican, and many continued to be until the 1960s.
Traditional Republicans in the South weren't so much conservative as establishmentarian: They were deal-makers and logrollers. The party was transformed, and moved rightward, during the 1960s and 1970s as southern Democrats fed up with the radicalization of their party began to desert.

The point was that Gore was demanding what he didn't have a right to ask for.If you read the timeline, you'll notice that Harris becomes over involved even before Gore asks for a recount... which he was entitled to ask for.

The point is that Al Gore made a huge national issue out of Florida, which was a major embarrassment for the electoral process. Certainly Bush's response wasn't perfect, but he wasn't driving the madness.Harris and the GOP were driving the madness. They attempted to stop recounts by trying to overly enforce deadlines instead of giving the counties time to get the job finished... like an extra day. It would be a little bit before Gore would make with the proposition to have a recount for the entire state, a reasonable idea seeing how absurdly close the outcome was.

And I think the point about Kerry was that he refused to demand one in spite of what the rest of his party were pushing him to do. I don't think we want every presidential election to descend into what Florida was in 2000. We're not a 3rd world nation.Bush had well under a 0.01% lead in Florida. I believe he won by over half a percent in Ohio. There was pressure for Kerry to do a recount, but the lead was insurmountable. It made no sense to recount. Florida was not Ohio.

I think Kathrine Harris, like many in the state process, knew that going through this would be a very painful and potentially damaging process for both the state of Florida and the future of US elections in general.

The legislature of Florida gave her the power to make the decisions that she did, and that power came from the US constitution which empowers the states' legislature to select its electors. It took the SCOTUS to finally affirm this.Actually, all the SCOTUS did was reaffirm the December 18th deadline... which actually went against prescedent set back in 1960 with Hawaii actually changing it's delegates after a recount affirmed a different winner.

[Sheepdog]

I disagree... the great depression was created by our monetary policies at the time. They had increased the monetary supply too much, and then overcorrected by cutting the monetary supply to 1/3 of what it had been previous to the great depression. That there is the biggest factor behind our great depression, IMO.

that's what started the great depression, though it can be argued that the economy would have recovered had FDR not made it worse. and government intervention, as i use the term, covers the monetary policy... so, i don't think we disagree after all. i was not suggesting that the New Deal itself caused the Depression in the first place.

[Sheepdog]

The New Deal introduced more government intervention. I personally like how people love to second guess those decisions... based on knowledge of economics we've obtained over the 70 years after... that they didn't have!!!


What economic model do you suppose that Keynesian economics replaced?

[burgy]

The next major event in history will come when the Shrub leaves office and we can all begin to breathe again.

The current crop of candidates has one or two decent replacements. Richardson or Edwards for the Dems; McCain for the Reps

[Paintbucket]

If I had to pick the #1, I'd say that it would be the resolution of the Civil War. America would draw together to form a superpower in just a few years.