A question for all you theologians...

[LeiLani]

I am doing a paper in school right now about the career we are going into and the education we will need to go into it. I am considering Theology as my major, so I need some input from other theology majors. I really haven't done this sort of paper before, so I am hoping you guys can answer a few questions and I can get ideas from them.

What made you decide to go into theology? What is the most important thing to look for in a college to major in theology, and how important is your spiritual life with this major?

Thanks guys! I look foward to reading your responses!

[Pilgrim]

First a question for you...what is your goal in obtaining a degree in theology?

[LeiLani]

I would like to get a Ph.D. and teach college theology classes in a Christian university, and I am also interested in apologetics too.

[Pilgrim]

My intro into theology was predicated by my sense of calling to full time pastoral ministry. I suspect it is the same for many who pursue degrees at theological seminaries etc.
Since you are wanting to start theological studies for a more purely academic reason I would think that an important thing for you to look for is a program that exposes you in full to various theological perspectives.

A program at a school in the Boston area (Boston College, Boston University,(Both of which offer post grad in theology and sacred theology) or Harvard, or Gordon Conwell etc...)which has access to the Boston Theological Institute might be something to consider or in San Francisco where you will be able to participate in the Graduate Theological Union. I say this because those programs allow you to be enrolled in a specific school but cross register at many other schools so that you can learn from professors with varying points of views and get credit for it at the same time. If youa re really interested in teaching theology at the higher levels you need to have a complete view of the theological perspective and you need to understand various theologies from the point of view of those who hold those positions. Then you can personally begin the proces of criticism on an academic level. Too often we only study various theologies from the point of view of outsiders rather than from primary sources.

If you were interested in pastoral ministry getting the variety would not be as important and you might focus on a school that agrees with your theological framework so that you can sharpen that to a keen point for use in a church setting.

Of course in both settings maintaining a spiritual life outside the Ivory Tower is important. The tendancy is to so intellectualize everything that we miss the moving of the Spirit and sometimes forget the passion that first brought us to our knees in front of God. Your daily spiritual disciplines will become very important because it is the word of God, living and written, that informs our faith and with out the formation the rest becomes meaningless.

Hope that is helpful. I'd be happy to elaborate on any of the points above if you want. I also hope others will comment, esecially Jaltus and Solly.

[Mitbulls]

My own decision to major in theology was based on a personal call to the ministry. My specific degree is made up of several electives and allows me to choose the specific areas of study, which is perfect. I am especially interested in apologetics and specific theology and doctrines of the O.T.. I think what you should expect mainly depends on what you plan to do with your degree after graduation (as Pilgrim said). Your spiritual life is important, but do not expect classes to be like devotions or church bible studies. It is usually more of an intellectual venture, often even considering conflicting viewpoints, and might also include such things as church history, methods of biblical interpretation, Greek and Hebrew, etc.. I think what I like most about my degree (so far) is that it challenges me to know WHY I believe what I believe, and gives me the education to defend those beliefs.

[Jacob]

Yesterday @ 03:25 PM post located here (http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=217672#post217672)
LeiLani:

I would like to get a Ph.D. and teach college theology classes in a Christian university, and I am also interested in apologetics too.

First, Jaltus gave some excellent advice.

Personally, I got a degree in theology for two reasons. First, because I didn't grow up in an evangelical church and I wanted a background in the bible & theology for ministry (professional or lay). Second, because I didn't grow up in an evangelical church I wanted to know what the Bible teaches so that I could obey Christ.

Regarding undergraduate education, I would not necessarily attend a Christian college if I had your goals. I'd find a school with an excellent reputation, and study philosophy, history, or literature, OR I'd major in something that could provide a living while I continued on to through graduate school.

May I ask a few questions for you to consider? Do you know where you want to teach? Do you have a good sense of where you fall in the evangelical spectrum? Are you more Covenant, Dispensational, Calvinist, Arminian, etc? Are you pretty much tied to a particular denomination? Depending on where you wish to teach, you may have a pretty clear path ahead of you. Many Seminaries are pretty well "inbred" with their own graduates (at some level). I know that to teach at Gordon Conwell I probably wouldn't increase my odds of getting hired by being a Dallas Theological Seminary graduate...:metro:

If teaching at the college level, you may find it helpful to have the "right" credentials (eg. graduated from that college's "mother school") so that students aren't automatically questioning your views (As a woman you'll be in an uphill battle to begin with, both administratively and with many students). You can pick another school for your Ph.D. work, and broaden your perspectives there.

Regarding spirituality, it's a struggle as a theology major. The Bible becomes a textbook, something to dissect. You begin learning far more than you can apply. Many graduates say that it took several years to begin recovering from Seminary. But it is important, because spirituality keeps us motivated to study for the right reasons.

Jacob

[Pilgrim]

That's an excellent example of why you need a broad background if you are studying theology proper I think. JAcob is talking more about Evangelical Biblical Theology. You need to consider if that is all you need or if to teach theology at the university level you need a broader perspective. One which includes many elements of theology not necessarily included in a strictly Evangelical setting.

[Jacob]

Today @ 02:30 PM post located here (http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=218584#post218584)
Pilgrim:

That's an excellent example of why you need a broad background if you are studying theology proper I think. JAcob is talking more about Evangelical Biblical Theology. You need to consider if that is all you need or if to teach theology at the university level you need a broader perspective. One which includes many elements of theology not necessarily included in a strictly Evangelical setting.

Pilgrim,

You're correct. Theology & apologetics, in the context of a Christian University, will probably emphasize Evangelical Biblical Theology. Mostly I'm just encouraging LeiLani to think about where she wants to teach (type of school), and plan accordingly.

Jacob

[David O]

Maybe she could study 1 Timothy 2:12.

[spl_cadet]

If you go to a Catholic uni to study it at some time (since you need a broad understanding, it does seem like a good idea to understand the theology of half of Christianity :teeth:), make sure that it is not Catholic in name only.

Ask a Catholic board, such as this one, about good Catholic colleges. (http://forums.catholic-convert.com)

[LeiLani]

Great answers guys! :thumb:


Do you know where you want to teach? Do you have a good sense of where you fall in the evangelical spectrum? Are you more Covenant, Dispensational, Calvinist, Arminian, etc? Are you pretty much tied to a particular denomination?

No idea exactly where I want to teach yet. I am a Calvinist, and my demonination is Wesleyan.

Any advice in general about majoring in theology? What subjects do you need to be strong in? Are there any major drawbacks in entering theology as a woman, besides what Jacob mentioned?

Thanks for all your answers! This is helping a lot.

[LeiLani]

David, I am aware of the misogynistic views that exist about women going into theology, maybe you could study Galatians 3:28. :teeth:

[Ulmo]

David O, I think if you have a theological ax to grind you should start your own thread :hrm:

[LeiLani]

Ulmo:

David O, I think if you have a theological ax to grind you should start your own thread :hrm:

:brood: He has already hijacked several others... he could continue the discussion there...

[Xmansmommy]

David, Leilani has asked for responses to her question regarding theology as her major, not interpretation of scripture. Please honor her request. If you disagree with her biblically, perhaps another area/thread is more appropriate for your comments as this forum is for questions and answers only. Thanks.

[Big Um2005]

David O I agree with you Email me some time

[Jacob]

Yesterday @ 03:52 PM post located here (http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=218729#post218729)
LeiLani:
No idea exactly where I want to teach yet. I am a Calvinist, and my demonination is Wesleyan.

Any advice in general about majoring in theology? What subjects do you need to be strong in? Are there any major drawbacks in entering theology as a woman, besides what Jacob mentioned?


LeiLani,

At Moody we had a few young ladies as theology majors. One professor asked everyone to share about why they chose this major. One of the two ladies in class said, "I want to teach," to which he instantly replied, "Not here you won't," followed by him chuckling and then encouraging her to pursue opportunities in several areas. They both knew the territory, no offense was intended or taken.

I think most theology students can be divided into two categories. First are those who go to "the right" school because they want to learn "the truth". They see the degree as the frosting on the cake, the certification that they have come to the only correct perspective. The other type of students are those who go to learn truth and to get equipped to investigate / evaluate what is true. The professors I most appreciated were the ones who did not regurgitate what they learned (i.e. "the truth") at "the right" school. They were the professors that were continually discovering truth, questioning their previous conclusions, actually "doing" theology. This is why I recommended an undergraduate degree in an area where truth is debated, and where tools for truthfinding are part of the curriculum.

As far as what areas you need to be strong in, don't worry about it yet. That's why people specialize. You have 4 years of undergraduate study, hopefully with serious involvement in a campus ministry (Crusade, Intervarsity, etc). Only then do you have to pick a particular school and choose a major (and many people change majors). And then, while in graduate school, you have 2-4 years to refine your interests, which will enable you to pick an area of research to do your Ph.D.

One last thing... If you're really thinking about doing a Ph.D., then you'll really want to study some languages as an undergraduate. Many Ph.D. programs have language requirements that are not part of a typical graduate degree (M.A. or M.Div).

Jacob

[Pilgrim]

Right on Jacob, good advice. To get more specific I would encourage French and German for undergraduate languages. You can do Biblical languages in Grad school.

You were also right on about the learning process as well. I had a professor who really pressed into us that it was important to think theologically not just know certain theologies.

A lot of students didn;t like him because there were no cookie cutter answers with him and we often left the syllabus to explore related issues. I however found him to be my favorite prof because he kept pushing us to go beyond the text book and the "right" answers to think critically about theology and theologians.

[Jacob]

Today @ 08:56 AM post located here (http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=219257#post219257)
Pilgrim:
I had a professor who really pressed into us that it was important to think theologically not just know certain theologies.

A lot of students didn;t like him because there were no cookie cutter answers with him and we often left the syllabus to explore related issues.

THis reminds me of Mr. Luck. He taught Ethics, and many students got their undies knotted as he riddled "good guy ethics" (i.e. being nice = being moral). He was so expositionally driven that I still can't evade his approach to ethics, even though I don't like some of the conclusions. Many students went away rejecting his conclusions, even though they "theoretically agreed" with his exposition. The best thing was that everyone went away from every class having to dig deeper to support or define their views.

He quit at Moody when he came out with a book that contradicted one of the Moody lifestyle issues (which professors & students agree to for their time at Moody... his book was regarding divorce & remarriage). Good man, I wonder what happened to him...

Jacob

[LeiLani]

The other type of students are those who go to learn truth and to get equipped to investigate / evaluate what is true.

Exactly why I want to go into theology, besides teaching.


One last thing... If you're really thinking about doing a Ph.D., then you'll really want to study some languages as an undergraduate. Many Ph.D. programs have language requirements that are not part of a typical graduate degree (M.A. or M.Div).

I'm already taking all the available language classes at my high school, this is my fourth year in high school Spanish and my second in French, I wanted German too, but my high school doesn't offer it.

Oh, and I meant to say Arminian instead of Calvinist on the last post...

[Pilgrim]

I was wondering how a Calvanist fit into a Wesleyan church.

Good start on the French. Of course grad schools will expect college level credits with that but they'll be easy if you have a few years already under your belt.

Another good language to have is Latin because it helps with all the other western languages.

[LeiLani]

Pilgrim:

I was wondering how a Calvanist fit into a Wesleyan church.


Not very well, I should think... :lol:


Good start on the French. Of course grad schools will expect college level credits with that but they'll be easy if you have a few years already under your belt.

I am counting on being able to test out of a year of French, my high school French classes are almost exactly like the college classes.

[Jaltus]

I recommend taking your Greek and Hebrew early on, at least one of them (preferably Greek since most seminaries let you test out of that but not Hebrew).

Thus, during your undergraduate career, I recommend studying German and Greek, with perhaps a single course of French reading.

In terms of your major, I recommend doing a theology major if you have strong prior background in the Bible. Otherwise look for a school that allows you to study the Bible AND get a theology degree (most force an either or choice).

As an Arminian, I highly recommend going to a Calvinist school in order to test your ideas. I am an Arminian, but I went to Calvin College and did my M Div at a nearly 100% Calvinist institution (though with very limited hostility to Arminians).

If you do Greek, I recommend taking classical instead of Koine, as it will make Koine much easier when you get there (without studying for syntax quizzes, I averaged a 97% in seminary on them thanks to my Classical Greek background).

Do not do an MA unless you want to go into Philosophy of Religion, as most schools currently prefer M Divs over MAs, or they might require a Th M after an MA.

Most of all, enjoy college. Take classes you like. You can go into the M Div with any major (I majored in physics, math, and classics, so I am getting my Ph D in NT of course), so do not worry too much about it.

However, do try to take a few philosophy courses along the way, if just to learn the lingo.

Also, begin building your library at college. Buy theology books and do not sell them back. If you do not love books now, you will quickly. They are a necessity for doing Ph D work. REad broadly now so that you can figure out what areas of theology you like. There is a lot out there, so do not be afraid to sample. Also, remember that if you hear something bad about a particulr view and what to see what that is, read someone who backs the view first before reading someone who critiques it. Evangelicals have a tendancy to read someone's critique and assume it is authoritative instead of reading the original text themself. This leads to a lot of misunderstandings.

God bless and feel free to PM or e-mail me with any questions.

- Jaltus

[LeiLani]

Thanks Jaltus! That was extremely helpful!

[Socrates]

I agree with taking Biblical languages. I think some science courses would be good too, as well as a course in logic. But I wouldn't touch Calvin College because it's a hotbed of theistic evolutionism--why help them thrive in their heterodoxy by paying tuition fees to them? It's best to go to a college that's sound on the authority of Scripture starting from Genesis.

[Pilgrim]

Thanks Jaltus, I was hoping you would weigh in here.

[Jaltus]

I agree with taking Biblical languages. I think some science courses would be good too, as well as a course in logic. But I wouldn't touch Calvin College because it's a hotbed of theistic evolutionism--why help them thrive in their heterodoxy by paying tuition fees to them? It's best to go to a college that's sound on the authority of Scripture starting from Genesis.

Actually, with the retirement of Van Till and some of the old guard moving out, Calvin has really changed. The ex-head of department for physics (my advisor during my time at Calvin College) really spearheaded a move to get creationists into the sciences there. The current biggest gun at Calvin, David Van Baak, is a straight creationist.

[Socrates]

Today @ 09:32 AM post located here (http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=221339#post221339)
Jaltus:

Actually, with the retirement of Van Till and some of the old guard moving out, Calvin has really changed. The ex-head of department for physics (my advisor during my time at Calvin College) really spearheaded a move to get creationists into the sciences there. The current biggest gun at Calvin, David Van Baak, is a straight creationist.

Praise the Lord! :joy:


Yesterday @ 10:06 AM post located here (http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=219939#post219939)
Jaltus:

As an Arminian, I highly recommend going to a Calvinist school in order to test your ideas. I am an Arminian, but I went to Calvin College and did my M Div at a nearly 100% Calvinist institution (though with very limited hostility to Arminians).

I thought Jaltus was a Molinist :brow: So if Leilani is not a Molinist, she needs to attend a Molinist school (that's straight creationist as well, of course :idea:) :wink: And if she is a Molinist :hrm: then a Calvinist or Arminian school :huh:

[Jaltus]

Molinism is a subset of Arminianism, it is a specific way to reconcile EDF and LFW.

The other form of Arminianism is Simple Foreknowledge.

[Pilgrim]

So there. :shrug:

[Socrates]

Yesterday @ 05:22 PM post located here (http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=221631#post221631)
Jaltus:

Molinism is a subset of Arminianism, it is a specific way to reconcile EDF and LFW.

:huh: I thought you said that Molinism was the middle of the road between Arminianism and Calvinism :hrm:

[Pilgrim]

It can be both, they are not mutually exclusive right?

[Socrates]

Today @ 02:40 AM post located here (http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=222073#post222073)
Pilgrim:

It can be both, they are not mutually exclusive right?

I would have thought that one can't hold a particular petal of TULIP together with the corresponding doctrine from the Remonstrance :huh:

[Pilgrim]

Well, I'm no expert on this particular relationship but it seems to me a middle road by definition means that you don't hold hard and fast to both extremes but come out some where in the middle right?

At any rate, the fact that molanism is a subset of Arminianism does not mean it can not be such a middler road.

[Jaltus]

Molinism is a form of Arminianism because it holds to LFW. However, it also provides for particular sovereignty. THus, it is a middle-ground, but it is a middle ground from the Arminian side (due to LFW).

Also, one can hold only to T and P and still be a Molinist, though I only hold to T.