Systematic theology texts

[IBreakCellPhone]

Hi, all.

I was just wondering what you thought of various systematic theology texts. Which one is your favorite? Why?

I'm reading my first, the four-volume series by Norman Geisler. I own volumes 1 and 2, and plan to buy 3 and 4 when they are written.

Thanks!

[Solly]

For the confessional view, John Gill, Body of Divinity, and Heppe's Reformed Dogmatics - which is a digest of Reformation theologians.
Modern: Grudem, mainly because of the cross references to other systematics and bibliography, since he doesn't go much in depth.
I tend to use individual volumes on individual subjects.

[Pilgrim]

Well I like McGrath, I also keep Erickson handy for quick reference. I like Halls three vollumes . I also use Hodge and of course the Institutes.

[lchemist]

Grudem has been criticized for his use of poor prose and systematic proof texting. In Grudems attempts to render the book accessible he simply strings a long list of verses together with some rather flimsy, superficial exegesis. For example the twenty-four pages he offers on the doctrine of the Trinity are mostly spent proving his case, refuting opposing viewpoints, and barely explaining what relevance it has for Christian theology and faith.



His method is to announce his conclusions; line up the proof texts; shoot holes through everyone else's proof texts; and proudly announce the matter settled.



He consciously avoids interaction with many theologians, Barth, for instance receives a single one-sentence treatment in a footnote. Nor is there serious treatment of Tillich, Kung, Bultmann, Rahner, Moltmann, Kierkegaard, liberation theology, feminist theology, black theology, political theology--in short, no serious treatment of any theologian or theology that has done anything significant in the last century to shape world-wide the Christian consciousness.

[potato sundae]

I do believe that Grudem's volume was meant as an introduction to biblical doctrine, not necessarily as an exhaustive analysis and comparison of different views.

[Solly]

Grudem has been criticized for his use of poor prose and systematic proof texting. In Grudems attempts to render the book accessible he simply strings a long list of verses together with some rather flimsy, superficial exegesis. For example the twenty-four pages he offers on the doctrine of the Trinity are mostly spent proving his case, refuting opposing viewpoints, and barely explaining what relevance it has for Christian theology and faith.



His method is to announce his conclusions; line up the proof texts; shoot holes through everyone else's proof texts; and proudly announce the matter settled.



He consciously avoids interaction with many theologians, Barth, for instance receives a single one-sentence treatment in a footnote. Nor is there serious treatment of Tillich, Kung, Bultmann, Rahner, Moltmann, Kierkegaard, liberation theology, feminist theology, black theology, political theology--in short, no serious treatment of any theologian or theology that has done anything significant in the last century to shape world-wide the Christian consciousness.

What PS said. It's a useful volume for someone who has never read an ST. Compare it with Gill though, and you see how pauce it is, and how much it panders to the short span of attention syndrome.
Grenz and Olson have a book, 20th Century Theologians, that gives an evangelical assessment of such as you have mentioned, but I don't think anyone covers them all, except in the theological dictionary.

I have just started read Barth's Dogmatics.

What we need is some publisher like Eerdmans or IVP to do a series on each type of theology from an evangelical pov. After all, we have Kingdom of the Cults, and New Religious Movements in America, etc.

[potato sundae]

Just curious, has anyone read J. Oliver Buswell's two volume systematic theology? I found volume one in my garage of all places the other day, and I'm wondering if anyone has read it, what they think of it.

[rmwilliamsjr]

i wrote a short FAQ on systematic resources

my favorites are online:
via the most excellent links list at:
http://www.monergism.com/thethresho...systematic.html (http://www.monergism.com/thethreshold/articles/topic/systematic.html)

robert dabney's lectures on systematic theology is at:
http://www.pbministries.org/R.%20L....ic_theology.htm (http://www.pbministries.org/R.%20L.%20Dabney/Systematic%20Theology/systematic_theology.htm)
pieces at: http://www.spurgeon.org/~phil/dabney.htm (http://www.spurgeon.org/%7Ephil/dabney.htm)

charles hodges outline of systematic theology is at:
http://www.dabar.org/Theology/Hodge...ntent_Intro.htm (http://www.dabar.org/Theology/Hodge/TableofContents/Content_Intro.htm)

this is just a single webpage summary of bavinck:
http://www.aplacefortruth.org/studies/bavinck.htm

louis berkof's summary of christian doctrine at:
http://www.mbrem.com/shorttakes/berk.htm

there are a few others available off this links list:
http://www.theologywebsite.com/inte...tic/index.shtml (http://www.theologywebsite.com/internet/Theology/Systematic/index.shtml)
or this one:
http://www.christianarsenal.com/Doctrine.htm


this is a response that has some i overlooked:
a couple I would add...
AH Strong's Systematic Theology Reformed Baptist,
James Boyce's (Reformed Baptist) Abstract of Systematic Theology at http://www.founders.org/library/boyce1/toc.html ;
Shedd, W. G. T. Dogmatic Theology, 3 vols;
Buswell, James Oliver. A Systematic Theology of the Christian Religion;
Berkouwer, G. C. Studies in Dogmatics, 14 vols. (Grand Rapids: Eerdmans, 1952-1976). (Dutch Reformed);
Thomas Watson's commentary on the Westminster catechism might work as a Sys Theo.... its at http://www.iclnet.org/pub/resources...n-divinity.html (http://www.iclnet.org/pub/resources/text/ipb-e/epl-10/web/watson-divinity.html) ;
John Gill's Doctrinal Divinity and Practical Divinity at http://www.pbministries.org/books/g...lls_archive.htm (http://www.pbministries.org/books/gill/gills_archive.htm) ; very hard to get but is supposed to be very good is
Richard Baxter's (Puritan) "A Christian Directory", a quick blurb "Dr. J.I. Packer says that, next to the Bible, this is these are greatest Christian books ever written. Here is Christianity made practical for every area of life."; James Buswell's Systematic Theology of the Christian Religion;
John Gerstner has systematized Jonathan Edwards thoughts into a sort of Sys Theo in the 3 volume set entitled The Rational Biblical Theology of Jonathan Edwards,;
John Murray's 4 vol Collected Writing of John Murray;
James Boice's 4 volume (also in a 1 vol. edition) called Foundation of the Christian Faith; my current favorite is the 3 vol. set by
Francis Turretin's Institutes of Elenctic Theology is a reformed classis to be sure.... ; there is also a multi-volumes set put out by IVP that is Reformed, the set is called
Contours of Christian Theology, contributors are men like Sinclair Ferguson (The Holy Spirit), Gerald Bray (The Doctrine of God), Paul Helm (The Providence of God) and Edmund Clowney (The Church); there is also
Reformed Dogmatics by Herman Hoeksema; there is the 10 volume set called
The Works of Benjamin Warfield, in particular is vol. 2 entitled Biblical Doctrines; for a look at the historical development of Sys Theo found in
Berkhof's The History f Christian Doctrines and the 2 vol classic by
William Cunnigham (1862) called Historical Theology; a "lighter" work is Know the Truth, A Handbook of Christian Belief by Bruce Milne (forward by JI Packer)

i'll add what gets posted here.

[romepunk]

Hans Urs Von Balthasar's Trilogy (each title is a multi-volume work itself)

1. The Glory of the Lord

2. Theo-Drama

3. Theo-Logic

[Berean Todd]

Charles Hodge has a wonderful 3 volume set that is on sale rather cheaply at www.cbd.com (http://www.cbd.com) (the best source for all theological works really). He's really wonderful, possibly my favorite set on this subject.

Lewis Sperry Chaeffer has another wonderful set as well, though it's a little pricier if you're looking at picking something up.

Geisler whom you mentioned is a great appologist, and I've read and been blessed by many of his works, but I've actually never gone through his systematic theology.

[Makarios]

Grudem has been criticized for his use of poor prose and systematic proof texting. In Grudems attempts to render the book accessible he simply strings a long list of verses together with some rather flimsy, superficial exegesis. For example the twenty-four pages he offers on the doctrine of the Trinity are mostly spent proving his case, refuting opposing viewpoints, and barely explaining what relevance it has for Christian theology and faith...I don't think Grudem was intending to exhaustively cover every aspect of ST.

He gives an excellent introduction to the major topics and from my perspective his is the best and most accessible for the average person.

He is a clear thinker and the subjects are clearly outlined. I have used his text as the basis for a in-home bible study and it worked great.

[rmwilliamsjr]

as a potential matter of interest, i joined a lj community at:
http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=theologyclassrm

which is planning to read:
Alister McGrath's Christian Theology: An Introduction

[Baxter]

Grudem has been criticized for his use of poor prose and systematic proof texting. In Grudems attempts to render the book accessible he simply strings a long list of verses together with some rather flimsy, superficial exegesis. For example the twenty-four pages he offers on the doctrine of the Trinity are mostly spent proving his case, refuting opposing viewpoints, and barely explaining what relevance it has for Christian theology and faith.

His method is to announce his conclusions; line up the proof texts; shoot holes through everyone else's proof texts; and proudly announce the matter settled.

He consciously avoids interaction with many theologians, Barth, for instance receives a single one-sentence treatment in a footnote. Nor is there serious treatment of Tillich, Kung, Bultmann, Rahner, Moltmann, Kierkegaard, liberation theology, feminist theology, black theology, political theology--in short, no serious treatment of any theologian or theology that has done anything significant in the last century to shape world-wide the Christian consciousness.
Good grief. The next time you copy-and-paste bits from one of my reviews (http://www.amazon.com/gp/cdp/member-reviews/AMMEMPM9MPS55/103-8113814-0535828?%5Fencoding=UTF8&display=public&page=8), you may want to mention where you got it from.

[potato sundae]

:rofl: :lmbo:

[Baxter]

Hmm, I actually find it a little more disturbing than funny. It's quite a weird feeling to be reading someone's ostensibly original post and the words are becoming more and more familiar to you until you suddenly realize you're reading your own words.

Actually, the post above combines (rather artlessly) my review with a few sentences from someone else's review on the same page. Bizarre.

[Baxter]

I couldn't resist blogging (http://gracepages.blogspot.com/2004/08/plagiarized.html) about this one. :lol:

But getting back to the subject, I wouldn't recommend Grudem, as per the reasons our friend kindly shared above. Trite and formulaic.

Of evangelical systematic theologies, Larry Hart's Truth Aflame is much better than Grudem's, aimed at a more popular level, but far more balanced, and reflecting a much broader range of scholarly views. I'd recommend it for the beginner interested in systematic theology from an evangelical perspective.

James Leo Garrett and Stanley Grenz are also worth a look, again much more integrated and intelligent than Grudem's book.

[Makarios]

But getting back to the subject, I wouldn't recommend Grudem, as per the reasons our friend kindly shared above. Trite and formulaic.You are way too critical. Grudem's is an introduction to theology and is used in a number of top Evangelical seminaries as a textbook.

His is a great text and is very readable. I have recommended it to many people in my church and have heard nothing but positive comments on it.

Unless someone is already familiar with theology bringing up Tillich, Moltmann, and Kierkegaard will not add to understanding, but will enhance confusion.

Your review strikes me as a straw-man. Complaining that an intro is not in-depth. Well, that's not the point of an intro!

[rmwilliamsjr]

there is a online study group on: Alister McGrath's Christian Theology: An Introduction.
forming contact at: http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=theologyclassrm
i've never seen an online group finish a book however.
my copy arrived today and it looks very good.
worth a look. perhaps the encouragement of a group will help some finish the book.
maybe this thread could result in a study group as well....


-------

[lchemist]

Good grief. The next time you copy-and-paste bits from one of my reviews (http://www.amazon.com/gp/cdp/member-reviews/AMMEMPM9MPS55/103-8113814-0535828?%5Fencoding=UTF8&display=public&page=8), you may want to mention where you got it from.
Actually Baxter you deserve an apology. I didn't mention my sources, I did not claim the review as mine, as I wrote "Grudem has been criticized". But I didn't say by whom.

Actually I was reading amazon's reviews and I copied the most articulate criticism I found, sincerely, since this is a forum, I was trying to start a dialogue.

Please accept my deepest apologies

PD: Thank you for pointing to your page, it is an excellent resource.

[Baxter]

You're welcome, and thanks for the apology. After I got over the eeriness of reading my own words, I actually found it quite amusing.

[Baxter]

You are way too critical. Grudem's is an introduction to theology and is used in a number of top Evangelical seminaries as a textbook.

His is a great text and is very readable. I have recommended it to many people in my church and have heard nothing but positive comments on it.

Unless someone is already familiar with theology bringing up Tillich, Moltmann, and Kierkegaard will not add to understanding, but will enhance confusion.

Your review strikes me as a straw-man. Complaining that an intro is not in-depth. Well, that's not the point of an intro!
I don't recall making that complaint.

[Makarios]

I don't recall making that complaint.I took from the following that you were implying lack of depth:

"He consciously avoids interaction with many theologians, Barth, for instance receives a single one-sentence treatment in a footnote. Nor is there serious treatment of Tillich, Kung, Bultmann, Rahner, Moltmann, Kierkegaard, liberation theology, feminist theology, black theology, political theology--in short, no serious treatment of any theologian or theology that has done anything significant in the last century to shape world-wide the Christian consciousness."

[Baxter]

Aha. Actually, those particular sentences were lifted from another review that our friend lchemist interpolated with mine.

I'll reprint lchemist's post with my words highlighted:

Grudem has been criticized for his use of poor prose and systematic proof texting. In Grudems attempts to render the book accessible he simply strings a long list of verses together with some rather flimsy, superficial exegesis. For example the twenty-four pages he offers on the doctrine of the Trinity are mostly spent proving his case, refuting opposing viewpoints, and barely explaining what relevance it has for Christian theology and faith.

His method is to announce his conclusions; line up the proof texts; shoot holes through everyone else's proof texts; and proudly announce the matter settled.

He consciously avoids interaction with many theologians, Barth, for instance receives a single one-sentence treatment in a footnote. Nor is there serious treatment of Tillich, Kung, Bultmann, Rahner, Moltmann, Kierkegaard, liberation theology, feminist theology, black theology, political theology--in short, no serious treatment of any theologian or theology that has done anything significant in the last century to shape world-wide the Christian consciousness.
For the record, here is my review in full (http://www.amazon.com/gp/cdp/member-reviews/AMMEMPM9MPS55/103-8113814-0535828?%5Fencoding=UTF8&display=public&page=8):

Make no bones about it: Grudem's Systematic Theology represents about the dullest and least inspired end of the evangelical theological spectrum. His method is only too obvious: Announce your conclusions; line up the prooftexts; shoot holes through everyone else's prooftexts; proudly announce the matter settled.

Grudem's 1200-page tome is not hard to understand, yet its banality makes it unreadable except for those who share his uncritical prooftexting approach to theology. He consciously avoids interaction with non-conservative sources on the grounds that dialogue with theologians or scholars who do not maintain a belief in the inerrancy of the Bible is fruitless. This view of Scripture is set out in the first view chapters in a formulaic manner that will convince only his fellow inerrantists. From thereon in, Grudem ploughs through the standard Reformed doctrines with utter sincerity and conviction, and yet utterly unconvincing to all but card-carrying members of his world.

By way of example of the trite and mind-numbing nature of Grudem's theology, note the twenty-four pages he offers on the doctrine of the Trinity, most of which is spent proving his case, refuting opposing viewpoints, and barely a page explaining what relevance it has for Christian theology and faith. The picture we get is that the Trinity is merely a dogma to be defended because it is true. Whether it really means anything appears secondary. We get no vision of what overarching implications the Trinity might have for Christians, but just a few contrived and unconnected points that fall woefully short of integrating the dogma into anything approaching a coherent Christian theology.

I feel I have been rather harsh with Grudem, but perhaps deservedly. He frequently throws up simplistic answers to his opponents' arguments and quotes Bible texts in support of his own views (basically the Calvinism of the Westminster Confession) in an alarmingly glib manner, rarely offering any real exegesis, and rarely justifying his philosophical assumptions (indeed, we get the impression he thinks he has none TO defend).

This may well give you a thorough overview of conservative Reformed evangelicalism (with, importantly, a charismatic bent), but outside of that narrow scope of usefulness, its value is severely limited.
I just noticed that directly underneath (http://www.amazon.com/gp/cdp/member-reviews/AMMEMPM9MPS55/103-8113814-0535828?%5Fencoding=UTF8&display=public&page=8) is my review of Larry Hart's book:

A few months ago a friend of mine, a conservative evangelical-charismatic, asked me to recommend an accessible systematic theology for a young man at his church. I hesitated to recommend anything as trite and formulaic as Grudem, and could not think of a better alternative. So I was delighted when I came across Hart's Truth Aflame.
Hart eschews cold dogmatics and presents a living, vibrant evangelical faith. Being rather outside the pale of conservative evangelicalism, I naturally disagreed theologically at points, but appreciated the emphasis on a merciful and loving God as he is revealed to us rather than lots of heavy philosophizing and inane prooftexting in order to argue inconsequential points (so Grudem). His sources span most of the roughly conservative end of Christianity as a whole: A glance at the index will reveal the most cited authors to be Karl Barth, James Dunn, CS Lewis and Wolfhart Pannenberg among some more standard conservative evangelical authors such as FF Bruce and Millard Erickson; There are also a few references to some more controversial figures such as Pat Robertson and Oral Roberts--more of an embarrassment than a help.

In retrospect, there are a few other evangelical systematic theologies I might recommend: Millard Erickson (Christian Theology); J Rodman Williams (Renewal Theology: Systematic Theology from a Charismatic Perspective); James Leo Garrett (Systematic Theology: Biblical, Historical, Evangelical); and Stanley J Grenz (Theology for the Community of God). None of these rivals Hart's book for accessibility, however.

[Ethos]

Hodge wrote an outstanding trio of large volumes on Systematic Theology. They are divided into three disciplines, namely, Theology, Anthropology and Soteriology. He wrote it while serving as a Professor of Theology at Princeton, and not only is he a fantastic teacher and writer, but it is also highly thorough in it's scope. Hope that helps :O)
God Bless you



Hi, all.

I was just wondering what you thought of various systematic theology texts. Which one is your favorite? Why?

I'm reading my first, the four-volume series by Norman Geisler. I own volumes 1 and 2, and plan to buy 3 and 4 when they are written.

Thanks!

[Ethos]

there is a online study group on: Alister McGrath's Christian Theology: An Introduction.
forming contact at: http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=theologyclassrm
i've never seen an online group finish a book however.
my copy arrived today and it looks very good.
worth a look. perhaps the encouragement of a group will help some finish the book.
maybe this thread could result in a study group as well....


-------Yes, I was reading that in Barnes and Nobles last night. It did look pretty interesting, I only goty through about fifteen pages, however. Perhaps I should purchase them.. hmm.

[Berean Todd]

Hodge wrote an outstanding trio of large volumes on Systematic Theology. They are divided into three disciplines, namely, Theology, Anthropology and Soteriology. He wrote it while serving as a Professor of Theology at Princeton, and not only is he a fantastic teacher and writer, but it is also highly thorough in it's scope. Hope that helps :O)
God Bless you
Yes, I think I mentioned Hodge earlier in this thread, but I have his trio at home and they are one of my favorite, if not my favorite, collections of systematic theology. Excellent work.

[Ethos]

Yes, I think I mentioned Hodge earlier in this thread, but I have his trio at home and they are one of my favorite, if not my favorite, collections of systematic theology. Excellent work.
Certainly. They have been described as the staple of any serious thinking Christians library. :O)

[Ethos]

Oh! I just remembered another set of books that you might enjoy. Thomas C. Oden has written a trio of volumes entitled," Systematic Theology" as well. They are each titled something like, "Life in the Spirit," "The Word of Life," etc (I can't remember exact;y because I am in Boston and didn't bring them with me)... I own them but I haven't actually got around to reading them yet. Upon flipping through them They do appear to be rather fascinating however, so I am not too hesitant to recommend them to you.

[rmwilliamsjr]

Hodge wrote an outstanding trio of large volumes on Systematic Theology. They are divided into three disciplines, namely, Theology, Anthropology and Soteriology. He wrote it while serving as a Professor of Theology at Princeton, and not only is he a fantastic teacher and writer, but it is also highly thorough in it's scope. Hope that helps :O)
God Bless you
http://www.dabar.org/Theology/Hodge/TableofContents/Content_Intro.htm

[Jaltus]

The problem I have with McGrath is that instead of writing a Theology text, his book is more like the History of Systematic Theology. Instead of picking a position to defend, he tells how Reformed dogma formed over time.

I found it to be very dry, mostly uninteresting, and in the end not very helpful. Oden is on my docket to read, but I will probably not get to him until 2006 (yes, my docket really is that full).

[Ethos]

The problem I have with McGrath is that instead of writing a Theology text, his book is more like the History of Systematic Theology. Instead of picking a position to defend, he tells how Reformed dogma formed over time.

I found it to be very dry, mostly uninteresting, and in the end not very helpful. Oden is on my docket to read, but I will probably not get to him until 2006 (yes, my docket really is that full).
I understand exactly what you mean, I'll be lucky if I get to it by 2006 myself- they are truly so time consuming anyway, and I have so much school and other books to read first. I still haven't finished Hodge's...

[keith]

I noticed Moltmann get a few namechecks here (mostly while criticizing Grudem!). He makes geat reading and is not as 'heavy' as a lot of folks make out. "The Crucified God" would make a good place to start. He writes what he calls 'systematic contributions to theology'. It is not one closed system that you must take or leave but a stimulating sequence of books on a wide range of theological issues.

Robert Jenson's Christian Dogmatics in 2 volumes looks pretty good (I confess to having dipped in rather than sat through the whole experience). For a single volume to stimulate the thinking, the one I have used the most over the past 10 years is 'The Promise of Trinitarian Theology' by Colin Gunton. The book is well written, explains both the methods used and their implications, and is then used on a range of topics such as Sovereignty, Creation, Church and so forth.