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Terraceth
05-23-2016, 09:56 PM
I'm not trying to ask this as a challenge; I'm genuinely curious, because I'm having trouble finding them. Whenever I try to look up information about Jewish apologetics, all I ever seem to find is arguments about why Christianity is wrong, e.g. claims that Jesus could not have been the Messiah, arguments that the New Testament isn't compatible with the Old Testament, and so on. But those aren't pro-Judaism arguments; they're anti-Christian arguments, which is something very different. I could just be looking in the wrong places, so I'm asking where could I find arguments that people use to give an affirmative case for Judaism?

Geert van den Bos
05-25-2016, 09:30 AM
I'm not trying to ask this as a challenge; I'm genuinely curious, because I'm having trouble finding them. Whenever I try to look up information about Jewish apologetics, all I ever seem to find is arguments about why Christianity is wrong, e.g. claims that Jesus could not have been the Messiah, arguments that the New Testament isn't compatible with the Old Testament, and so on. But those aren't pro-Judaism arguments; they're anti-Christian arguments, which is something very different. I could just be looking in the wrong places, so I'm asking where could I find arguments that people use to give an affirmative case for Judaism?

The one and only true God, creator of heaven and earth, is the one who did lead the children of Israel out of Egypt to reveal himself at mount Sinai.

siam
05-27-2016, 10:42 PM
...where could I find arguments that people use to give an affirmative case for Judaism?

Jewish monotheism (Shema) is already affirmed by Christians (at least, that is what I understand when Christians claim they are "monotheists")...so pro-monotheism arguments would probably be found against Atheists?....Here is a video of Chief Rabbi J Sacks with Richard Dawkins...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bK0tpvcIRhU

shunyadragon
05-29-2016, 03:36 PM
Jewish monotheism (Shema) is already affirmed by Christians (at least, that is what I understand when Christians claim they are "monotheists")...so pro-monotheism arguments would probably be found against Atheists?....Here is a video of Chief Rabbi J Sacks with Richard Dawkins...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bK0tpvcIRhU

There is a relationship between Judaism, Christianity, and Islam, but the beliefs of one cannot be used to justify the others or any one religion.

The problem with Judaism is that presents a rather limited narrow cultural view of God relating only to the Jewish people. I have similar objections for Christianity, Islam and other ancient religions in that they fail to address a universal relationship between God and humanity.

siam
05-29-2016, 07:34 PM
There is a relationship between Judaism, Christianity, and Islam, but the beliefs of one cannot be used to justify the others or any one religion.

The problem with Judaism is that presents a rather limited narrow cultural view of God relating only to the Jewish people. I have similar objections for Christianity, Islam and other ancient religions in that they fail to address a universal relationship between God and humanity.

Jews may or may not be "cultural", but I think it would be incorrect for a Muslim to be "only cultural" unless one was a hypocrite...since Islam is a set of presumptions (Tawheed) upon which a whole "system"(ethics/morality, laws etc) is constructed.

I do not think Jews have a narrow view of God---as I understand it, the Jewish G-d is not constrained by gender, ethnicity or such factors...it is the universal creative "force". But yes, the Halaka (law) is for Jews only....therefore, some ethics such as the immorality of charging usury apply to transactions with other Jews only...and not to non-Jews...?.....This idea is similar in Islam as well, in that Sharia is for Muslims only but Non-Muslims can also use it if they wish to because the ethics/morality is based on universal principles...So, charging interest (Riba) is discouraged even if the the person to whom it is charged is not a Muslim...(Though, in the Western capitalist system there is not much option...because the laws are based on an interest system.....which is why "Islamic finance or Sharia compliant finance/economics is being debated....)

psstein
06-05-2016, 05:16 PM
I was Jewish before I became Roman Catholic.

The argument most often used in favor of the truth of Judaism is that the Torah (and commandments) were given to Moses on Mount Sinai, in front of 600,000 witnesses. Since there were so many witnesses, it must be true. Then, Jewish apologists will often examine things like the faithfulness of Pentateuchal transmission, which would be a more effective argument if we had a complete text earlier than the Masoretic Text.

Lawrence Kelemen, whom often does some Jewish apologetics, gives the Mount Sinai argument in this video:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VarUODJ9uPo

One Bad Pig
06-05-2016, 05:19 PM
I was Jewish before I became Roman Catholic.

The argument most often used in favor of the truth of Judaism is that the Torah (and commandments) were given to Moses on Mount Sinai, in front of 600,000 witnesses. Since there were so many witnesses, it must be true. Then, Jewish apologists will often examine things like the faithfulness of Pentateuchal transmission, which would be a more effective argument if we had a complete text earlier than the Masoretic Text.

Lawrence Kelemen, whom often does some Jewish apologetics, gives the Mount Sinai argument in this video:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VarUODJ9uPo
We have something close to a complete text in the Dead Sea Scrolls. On the other hand, the DSS bear witness to different rescensions even then.

psstein
06-06-2016, 04:01 PM
We have something close to a complete text in the Dead Sea Scrolls. On the other hand, the DSS bear witness to different rescensions even then.

The DSS do not have complete copies in the huge majority of cases. For example, of the 54 chapters of Genesis, we have only 34 in the DSS.

One Bad Pig
06-07-2016, 06:28 AM
The DSS do not have complete copies in the huge majority of cases. For example, of the 54 chapters of Genesis, we have only 34 in the DSS.

No, but what we have from the DSS is pretty significant.

shunyadragon
06-14-2016, 09:49 AM
I was Jewish before I became Roman Catholic.

The argument most often used in favor of the truth of Judaism is that the Torah (and commandments) were given to Moses on Mount Sinai, in front of 600,000 witnesses. Since there were so many witnesses, it must be true. Then, Jewish apologists will often examine things like the faithfulness of Pentateuchal transmission, which would be a more effective argument if we had a complete text earlier than the Masoretic Text.

Lawrence Kelemen, whom often does some Jewish apologetics, gives the Mount Sinai argument in this video:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VarUODJ9uPo

Considering the history of the text of Genesis and Exodus I have no reason to believe the accounts were accurate and historical, nor were there 600,000 witnesses.

psstein
06-17-2016, 09:51 PM
Considering the history of the text of Genesis and Exodus I have no reason to believe the accounts were accurate and historical, nor were there 600,000 witnesses.

I agree. The Pentateuch is (largely) fictitious. There may be some historical memory and information behind the narrative, but the nature of the sources doesn't allow for any real historical reconstruction.

One Bad Pig
06-18-2016, 05:57 AM
I agree. The Pentateuch is (largely) fictitious. There may be some historical memory and information behind the narrative, but the nature of the sources doesn't allow for any real historical reconstruction.
When a document (Deuteronomy) is modeled after a Hittite suzerain treaty current 1,000 years before critics tend to think it was written, I take what critics say with a large grain of salt. I think there's a lot more historicity there than you imagine. :shrug:

psstein
06-18-2016, 12:02 PM
When a document (Deuteronomy) is modeled after a Hittite suzerain treaty current 1,000 years before critics tend to think it was written, I take what critics say with a large grain of salt. I think there's a lot more historicity there than you imagine. :shrug:

Deuteronomy seems to better parallel neo-Assyrian treaties of the 7th century BC, rather than the Hittite treaties. I'll look into it a little further.

I'm also wondering if you're including the Deuteronomistic history under Deuteronomy. I tend to see Kings/Judges/Samuel as being historically based.

One Bad Pig
06-18-2016, 05:08 PM
Deuteronomy seems to better parallel neo-Assyrian treaties of the 7th century BC, rather than the Hittite treaties. I'll look into it a little further.

I'm also wondering if you're including the Deuteronomistic history under Deuteronomy. I tend to see Kings/Judges/Samuel as being historically based.
While you're at it, take a look at the affinities between the Ten Commandments and Egyptian antecedents.

psstein
06-18-2016, 10:31 PM
While you're at it, take a look at the affinities between the Ten Commandments and Egyptian antecedents.

I've seen those. Kitchen argued for them in On the Reliability of the Old Testament.

shunyadragon
07-22-2016, 08:25 PM
Actually, as per the topic of the thread, my experience with Jews in America is more positive than with Christians nor Muslims. I also find them happier and more satisfied with their lives, and relationships.

Among the ancient religions the simplicity Jewish Theology is also appealing. I find this happiness, satisfaction with their lives, and simplicity true with many Buddhists.

Shunyadragon, please remember that as an agnostic, you are not permitted to post here. Sorry.

Marta
09-25-2016, 03:11 PM
Try this website: http://www.schechter.edu/Page.aspx?ID=379562354 (The Schechter Institutes)

also, http://globalyeshiva.com/051-make-faith-real-passover-important/ (Global Yeshiva)

These two websites might steer you toward the information that you need.