Did God create logic? Or is logic further evidence of God’s existence?

[shunyadragon]

Did God create logic? Or is logic further evidence of God’s existence?

This a common claim by many Christian apologists. Is this really a valid claim? Can these apologists back up these claims without appealing to a circular reasoning logic?

More to follow.

[seer]

Did God create logic? Or is logic further evidence of God’s existence?

This a common claim by many Christian apologists. Is this really a valid claim? Can these apologists back up these claims without appealing to a circular reasoning logic?

More to follow.

I'm not sure what your point its. I would say that logically is the way God thinks and that an intelligible universe is a reflection of that rational Mind.

[Meh Gerbil]

Did God create logic? Or is logic further evidence of God’s existence?

As God created the earth as a home for our bodies so I believe He created logic as a home for our minds.
God condescends to step into earth from time to time just as He condescends to step into logic from time to time.

That's how I see it.

As such, I don't believe the foundation of our system of logic (A cannot be non-A) applies to God.

[37818]

The laws of logic seem to be for all intents and purposes self evident fundamental truths. Not unlike 1+ 1 = 2.

The only thing or concept of all self evident truths is rhat they are contingent upon is self existence. Which without which other fundamental self evident truths could not otherwise be self existent. Uncaused existence is the one fundamental truth of all truth.

So unless that one fundamental self evident truth is the very identity of God - there need not be any god.

[seer]

As such, I don't believe the foundation of our system of logic (A cannot be non-A) applies to God.

I do believe it applies to God in that that is how God thinks.

[Meh Gerbil]

I do believe it applies to God in that that is how God thinks.

So God isn't constrained by time or space but He gets hung up on logic and is beholden to it?
That strikes me as odd and likely the product of our society's former worship of rationalism.

[Sparko]

Like I said in the other thread, logic isn't a thing that can be created, it is simply a method of reasoning reality. Like math. God didn't create math. It just is a way of describing numerical relationships. If you have one apple and put another down, you have two apples. There is nothing created. It just IS. So 1+1=2 represents that fact. God created the apples, but he didn't create the "math" that made the total be 2 apples instead of something else. Logic is the same thing.

[seer]

So God isn't constrained by time or space but He gets hung up on logic and is beholden to it?
That strikes me as odd and likely the product of our society's former worship of rationalism.

Well yes, God certainly is constrained by His nature, by what and who He is. God is "truth" He can not lie, God is "good" and "just" and "righteous' These are immutable attributes. And He is rational.

[Meh Gerbil]

Well yes, God certainly is constrained by His nature, by what and who He is. God is "truth" He can not lie, God is "good" and "just" and "righteous' These are immutable attributes. And He is rational.

If God steps into time via the incarnation it is God limiting Himself so that we can understand.
That doesn't mean He's beholden to time but only that He's been known to limit Himself on our behalf.

If God steps into logic it would be a case of God limiting Himself so that we can understand.
That doesn't mean He's beholden to logic but only that He's been known to limit Himself on our behalf.

You're implying that you're God's peer when it comes to logic.

[seer]

If God steps into time via the incarnation it is God limiting Himself so that we can understand.
That doesn't mean He's beholden to time but only that He's been known to limit Himself on our behalf.

If God steps into logic it would be a case of God limiting Himself so that we can understand.
That doesn't mean He's beholden to logic but only that He's been known to limit Himself on our behalf.

You're implying that you're God's peer when it comes to logic.

No, I saying that God is logical by nature, like He is honest by nature, just by nature, forgiving by nature, loving by nature, etc...

[Sparko]

If God steps into time via the incarnation it is God limiting Himself so that we can understand.
That doesn't mean He's beholden to time but only that He's been known to limit Himself on our behalf.

If God steps into logic it would be a case of God limiting Himself so that we can understand.
That doesn't mean He's beholden to logic but only that He's been known to limit Himself on our behalf.

You're implying that you're God's peer when it comes to logic.

woah. OK you need to step back and define "logic" first Gerbz. I see people tossing it around like it is some sort of object or physical law. So first define what logic is, or google it. Then let's discuss if God created it or not.

[37818]

The idea that nothing created logic or the logic we call math (like 1 + 1= 2). Then there is uncreated entities which either do not need any kind of God or are are contingent on God, God Himself being the fundament, truth, reason for all uncreated things/entities. Being the Self-Existent One.

[37818]

[The idea that nothing created logic or the logic we call math (like 1 + 1= 2). Then there are uncreated entities which either do not need any kind of God or are are contingent on God, God Himself being the fundamental truth, reason for all uncreated things/entities. Being the Self-Existent One.[/QUOTE]

[Meh Gerbil]

woah. OK you need to step back and define "logic" first Gerbz. I see people tossing it around like it is some sort of object or physical law. So first define what logic is, or google it. Then let's discuss if God created it or not.

Can you come up with something God didn't create?

[JonathanL]

Can you come up with something God didn't create?

God didn't create His own nature.