Politics and Population...

[Zeluvia]

Population crowding affecting attitudes, moral views, and politics...

Just some random musing...books to read would be appreciated

1. Provisioned populations of monkeys in Japan engage in more social activities, which creates more social tension, and more aggression.

Does this crowding affect people?

Are attitudes affected by the number of people you see each day?
The number of "strange" vs "familiar" faces?

In a rural environment, the "stranger" would be the exception to the rule.

In an urban environment, the "familiar" would be the exception to the rule.

In a rural environment, how many different people would you see each day? In a urban?

Where would the suburbs fit? Are they really MIDDLE scale? Are suburbs/neighborhoods in effect small towns, or are they really extensions of the cities? Does it vary?

Does constant exposure to multiple strangers cause stress, and bio-chemical responses, or do city-dwellers "adapt" with actual physical changes?

Is this maybe ONE difference between "red" state attitudes and "blue" state attitudes, much simplified of course.

[JusticeMachine]

Population crowding affecting attitudes, moral views, and politics...

Just some random musing...books to read would be appreciated

1. Provisioned populations of monkeys in Japan engage in more social activities, which creates more social tension, and more aggression.

Does this crowding affect people?

Are attitudes affected by the number of people you see each day?
The number of "strange" vs "familiar" faces?

In a rural environment, the "stranger" would be the exception to the rule.

In an urban environment, the "familiar" would be the exception to the rule.

In a rural environment, how many different people would you see each day? In a urban?

Where would the suburbs fit? Are they really MIDDLE scale? Are suburbs/neighborhoods in effect small towns, or are they really extensions of the cities? Does it vary?

Does constant exposure to multiple strangers cause stress, and bio-chemical responses, or do city-dwellers "adapt" with actual physical changes?

Is this maybe ONE difference between "red" state attitudes and "blue" state attitudes, much simplified of course.

I would think that people tend to objectify one another more as crowding increase. People become less personable toward one another, because there are too many minor relationships each individual deals with directly, that the propensity is to not develop relationships with depth. When you dilute the personal focus of person from say 1:10 in a day, to say 1:100 in a day, a person can't help but create less meaningful bonds. Now add to that, that the majority of the 100 relationship engaged in, in a given day, are not repetitive engagements from one day to another, you further weaken any personal bond that would be created.

The more people become an object to be dealt with and less a person to relate to, the easier it would be to act out violently toward them. Also, the more estrange or removed an individual becomes from deep, meaningful, reflective, reciprical relationships, the less fulfilled and the more frustrated and despondent the individual would become, also adding to more aggressive feelings.

This is my observation, I am not educated in this area, but it seem to be plain to me.

[Paintbucket]

Well, I wouldn't go as far as putting that in Red states vs. Blue states. The South and Midwest vote conservative (Modern Republicans). The Northeast and West Coast vote liberal (Modern Democrat). The interesting thing is to look at the swing states (Florida, Ohio, Missouri, New Hampshire) and see how they vote. Cities tend to vote liberal, rural areas tend to vote conservative. I'd say crowding has some effect, but not a large one. Other factors mean more.

[FreezBee]

Population crowding affecting attitudes, moral views, and politics...

Just some random musing...books to read would be appreciated

1. Provisioned populations of monkeys in Japan engage in more social activities, which creates more social tension, and more aggression.

Does this crowding affect people?

It sure does, but I doubt it is the crowding as such -- it is rather that (as you write subsequently) that more of the people we meet are strangers.


Are attitudes affected by the number of people you see each day?
The number of "strange" vs "familiar" faces?

In a rural environment, the "stranger" would be the exception to the rule.

In an urban environment, the "familiar" would be the exception to the rule.

In a rural environment, how many different people would you see each day? In a urban?

Where would the suburbs fit? Are they really MIDDLE scale? Are suburbs/neighborhoods in effect small towns, or are they really extensions of the cities? Does it vary?

It probably varies for suburbs. Many people with addresses in suburbs work in the city center and primarily use their homes for sleeping.


Does constant exposure to multiple strangers cause stress, and bio-chemical responses, or do city-dwellers "adapt" with actual physical changes?

Actual physical changes?


Is this maybe ONE difference between "red" state attitudes and "blue" state attitudes, much simplified of course.

Well, I think that we should build a high wall around the USA and make an international law that no one on the inside is allowed to enter the outside.


- FreezBee

[Faramir]

I'm not so sure that this is not putting the cart before the horse. It seems to me that there is a correlation between people who desire to live in a large city and people who are more liberal.

I have no proof or support for this, just my own thoughts.

[Zeluvia]

Lets look at it another way....

If you are used to seeing strangers every day in large numbers, do you fear them just because you don't know them?

If you are NOT used to seeing strangers every day, do you fear them?

[Zeluvia]

I'm not so sure that this is not putting the cart before the horse. It seems to me that there is a correlation between people who desire to live in a large city and people who are more liberal.

I have no proof or support for this, just my own thoughts.

I don't think most people CHOOSE where they live based on population dynamics.

I certainly CHOOSE where I live based on family (farthest possible distance from) friends (least likely to ask me to borrow money) jobs (where I can make a living) climate (shovel snow? no thanks) and lifestyle (tacos !! yes !!)

[norwegen]

I feel like I'm just another pretty face here.

[Zeluvia]

It sure does, but I doubt it is the crowding as such -- it is rather that (as you write subsequently) that more of the people we meet are strangers.



It probably varies for suburbs. Many people with addresses in suburbs work in the city center and primarily use their homes for sleeping.



Actual physical changes?



Well, I think that we should build a high wall around the USA and make an international law that no one on the inside is allowed to enter the outside.


- FreezBee

Ha Freez...aren't you danish or so? = )

one of those little countries that would fit in Texas and has no excuse not to be a state in the European Union except you think you have an Unique culture and silly language that uses alot of silly things over vowels that are totally unnecessary and make typing in MMO games that much harder?

sug pung, my dear = )

or besame ma cul

PS, that is my garbled swedish and french, but you get the point = )

*hugs*

Okay my Danish Friends came through

Jeres moder var en nauvnlig lugt ged....

I hope you appreciate the trouble I go through for you = )

[Zeluvia]

I feel like I'm just another pretty face here.

aww hun

I hear you have nice abs, long sensuous fingers, and buns of steel = )

[FreezBee]

Ha Freez...aren't you danish or so? = )

Well, that's what my passport says :smile:


one of those little countries that would fit in Texas and has no excuse not to be a state in the European Union except you think you have an Unique culture and silly language that uses alot of silly things over vowels that are totally unnecessary and make typing in MMO games that much harder?

You are just envious because you only have three letters in your alphabet: A to C :rasberry:


sug pung, my dear = )

or besame ma cul

PS, that is my garbled swedish and french, but you get the point = )

As I've said before: I really love it, when you talk dirty to me :smile:


*hugs*

You can't bribe me :no:


Okay my Danish Friends came through

Jeres moder var en nauvnlig lugt ged....

Your (plural) mother was a [unintelligible word] smell goat :huh:

Are you sure your friends really are Danish?


I hope you appreciate the trouble I go through for you = )

:lol: Well, I sure do :love:


- FreezBee

[FreezBee]

Is this maybe ONE difference between "red" state attitudes and "blue" state attitudes, much simplified of course.

Ummm, I just picked up from a newspaper this morning that it's the genes of people that define their political views. Lone Frank, Ph.D. in biology, aqnd well-known anti-IDist, triumphantly claims that research contradicts the prevailing hypothesis that it's the life of people that shape their political views, and that in stead the research shows that genes are a primary factor.

Just to humor your old biological-reductionist <3 (see, I've learned it!) :smile:


- FreezBee

[themuzicman]

I have on my reading list a book called "A Theology of City" - I'll have to look up the author. I believe it looks at "city" as a rebellion against God's command to "fill the earth."

[Ryokan]

I wonder how large the effect of urban vs. rural is in the big picture. After all, human beings are much, much less vioelnt than they were 500 years ago, much less 1000 or 10,000. We are also more open minded and cosmopolitian. And we live more packed together in cities now than ever before. Over half the species lives in a city now.

[Ryokan]

I have on my reading list a book called "A Theology of City" - I'll have to look up the author. I believe it looks at "city" as a rebellion against God's command to "fill the earth."

It looks pretty filled to me!

[themuzicman]

You could fit everyone on the planet inside the state of Alaska (1/3 yard each.)

Plus, population will peak and begin to decline, soon.

Michael

[FreezBee]

I have on my reading list a book called "A Theology of City" - I'll have to look up the author. I believe it looks at "city" as a rebellion against God's command to "fill the earth."

It is one interpretation of the Tower of Babel story (Genesis 11:1-9). People built the city Babylon, because they did not want to obey that command -- which is why God scattered them after destroying the tower.


It looks pretty filled to me!

:lol:

Though I think there are a few vacant spots in Siberia and Antarctica.


- FreezBee

[Ryokan]

You could fit everyone on the planet inside the state of Alaska (1/3 yard each.)

Plus, population will peak and begin to decline, soon.

Michael

We are on the other hand the most populace large mammal in history of the world, and further more given a traditional, non-urban lifestyle we are billions over the earths carry capacity.

[themuzicman]

:lmbo:

In what way are we "over the earth's carry capacity"?


Michael

[Ryokan]

:lmbo:

In what way are we "over the earth's carry capacity"?


Michael
Simply, without cities the technological advances necessary for industrial agriculture would not exist. We have six billion people and will top out at 9. There is simply not enough arable land for 6 billion people using pre-modern agricultural techniques. And if you start thinking about agriculture as an unnatural way to live and want to go back to hunter gathering then the total population ought to be about 2 million. So, without cities, the earth is OVER filled.

[FreezBee]

:lmbo:

In what way are we "over the earth's carry capacity"?

The earth is sinking!

- FreezBee

[Ryokan]

The earth is sinking!

- FreezBee

well that too. We are too heavy for the turtle carrying us.

[Ryokan]

I wish Muz had responded. His book sounded pretty absurd, but fun to argue about.

[Inquiry]

Maybe more the factors which affects a population political, economical cultural views
are the messages which they receive from socialization tools
Academia, Media ( including movies, shows, artists, news ) Business ( work places has rules like Multiculturalism, etc)
if the majority of the academia from grammar to higher education be public or private
provide the propagate the same kind of information like for example
That all cultures are the same and that moral cultural relativism is ok which occurs even major Catholic campus like Georgetown .There is not right or wrong just differences and people should not rebel against their own cultures and traditions.
That people should accept slavery ( Sudan for example) women being legally second or third class ( Iran, Mauritanian for example) legalized censorship and political repression ( Vietnam, North Korea for example ) because there is not universal moral cultural absolutes and non culture is superior for example moral cultural relativist supporter will argue that
American or Canadian culture better is not others like the Afghan where people are condemned to death for being atheists or abandon the state sponsor religion Islam. If people accept cultural relativism then more people will accept those political parties who sponsor such views such like America political , cultural , economical model is not exceptional or better than the one of North Korea, Sudan or Iran and all models are the same in practice is not truth
Most likely a Cultural relativist will deny that the West experienced real social change happened from abolition of slavery to civil rights
They will deny that non White have experienced by verifiable measure great improvements and advancement in the political , economical , cultural sphere far than in many other world cultures including Third World Cultures, Bhutan , People Republic of China, Rwanda, Nigeria, Mauritania , Brazil, Central America, Mexico etc
They will said that nothing have changed in America or in the West during the last 200 years and they will use utopian standards to measure and downgraded whatever political social reforms had occurs in the West

It is nothing new that the knowledge that for more than 50 years, the academia , most of the media, and the majority of the artists subscribed to
what the late French philosopher Revel rightly so defined as Anti Americanism and that one political philosophy exert practically a monopoly in the educational system and most of the media, and the narrative spoon feed to American students for decades, the one so criticize by the late Allan Bloom in the Closing of the American Mind