What if Judaism -- Christianity --Islam never existed?

[srvfan]

Say God decided not to reveal himself to men, and leave them to their own devices?

This should be a historical discussion only, okay?

Say the three never existed, hmm...

[Shadow Phoenix]

Heaven would be empty and Earth would be Hell.

[One Bad Pig]

You could've just stopped with Judaism.

[BillTBC]

Why would he have made us anyway?

[Sheepdog]

You'd be visiting your local temple prostitute in hopes that your local god might bless your field with fertility.

Seriously. If the Abrahamic faiths weren't responsible for modern societies to flourish, they at least made them possible by destroying the pagan superstitions in their spheres of influence.

Even Islam played a part. They preserved the Greek philosophers until the Renaissance.

[Paintbucket]

Well, Western Civilization would be vastly different than today. The ancient Hebrews were a prototype for the West. The Greeks and Romans were closer in roots to the beginnings of Western Civilization, but the Hebrews played an important role. The Arabs of the 700's-1400's preserved Greek culture, and the Roman Empire changed quite drastically with the adoption of Christianity, which changed the rest of the world. Christianity is a big reason why we have an advanced society, it's just something about the thought process and to a lesser extent the drive to convert and spread the religion. When the religion spreads, other things will spread. Technology and new ideas would spread. In the earlier polytheistic religions, new ideas were typically shunned and advances in technology were few. The church controlled education then and with that the church would convert and teach. The world would be much different if not for these religions, something that would take a good deal of thought to imagine.

[Giorno Giovanna]

Heaven would be empty and Earth would be Hell.

Couldn't have said it any better. Earth would have been much worse than it is already.

[the_eliot_one]

I should imagine society wouldn't have been terribly different. The religions develloped according to the society they were in. In the age of monarchies and exploitation, they were oppressive and violent, in the age of ancient superstition, they were sacrificing animals to cleanse them of crimes and curry favour of Jehova. In this liberal age they condemm the authoritarianism, exploitation and practice regular aid to the rest of the world. So all in all, not terribly different.

[Passerby]

If God decided not to reveal Himself to us, we would have no knowledge or conception of truth, not even left to our natural reason; He even tries to guide non-Judaic religions to the truth, even though it is impossible to replace Jesus fully. The human race probably wouldn't have made it this far.

[historic salve]

Europe might still be controlled by barbarians (the Roman Empire would have fallen with or without Christianity, but I think it would have taken longer). I doubt the Americas would ever have been discovered. Culture would be very different, assuming there would be any culture at all to speak of in the West.

[Tladatsi]

Then someone would have had to create them.

Say God decided not to reveal himself to men, and leave them to their own devices?

This should be a historical discussion only, okay?

Say the three never existed, hmm...

[Tladatsi]

Europe might still be controlled by barbarians

It is not?

I doubt the Americas would ever have been discovered.

It already was.

Culture would be very different, assuming there would be any culture at all to speak of in the West.

There is?

[historic salve]

It is not?
Nope.

It already was.
You know what I mean. :tongue:

There is?
Where there is art, there is culture, and if you build it they will come.

[Texatru]

The legacy of the monotheistic religions seem to have largely been the explosion of the "I'm right - You're wrong" philosophies which we live with to this day.

On this criteria, the world could have been a more peaceful place, but that is only speculation since pagans and heathens were perhaps as warlike as monotheistic fanatics.

So - impossible to tell, but its fun to speculate.

[JonLanceBarker]

The legacy of the monotheistic religions seem to have largely been the explosion of the "I'm right - You're wrong" philosophies which we live with to this day.

Which predated monotheism by a long shot and were quite trendy among ancient Greeks. :teeth:

On this criteria, the world could have been a more peaceful place, but that is only speculation since pagans and heathens were perhaps as warlike as monotheistic fanatics.

Perhaps? Come on. Seriously. Was the pagan Roman Empire less warlike than medieval Europe? What about the Persian Empire? Alexander the Great? :hehe:

So - impossible to tell, but its fun to speculate.

Indeed. :ahem:

[Texatru]

Which predated monotheism by a long shot and were quite trendy among ancient Greeks. :teeth:

Perhaps, but monotheism ups the ante to apply to one "true" God, while polytheism is inherently more accepting of others beliefs.


Perhaps? Come on. Seriously. Was the pagan Roman Empire less warlike than medieval Europe? What about the Persian Empire? Alexander the Great? :hehe:

Indeed. :ahem:

Charlemagne, Fredrick the Great, Constantine, Mohammed, Joshua (coming into the promise land), Justinian, Saladine and the crusaders...

I don't know if there were more wars because of monotheism, but its hard to argue that monotheism produced fewer wars.


However, one thing I think we can agree upon. (hopefully) Monotheism changed the concept of divinity, almost to the point where we don't even really understand how Alexander was considered divine.

[One Bad Pig]

Perhaps, but monotheism ups the ante to apply to one "true" God,
:no: There were plenty of wars in the ANE over "my chief god/gods is/are bigger than your chief god/gods" before and alongside Judaism. while polytheism is inherently more accepting of others beliefs.
Oh, so that's why the early Christians were never persecuted by the Rom....

oh, wait. Ancient China and pre-Colonial America were so peaceful, too. Not.

I don't know if there were more wars because of monotheism, but its hard to argue that monotheism produced fewer wars.

I think that this whole line of argument/counter-argument is a bit mis-placed. War stems from human nature, not whatever belief system one follows.

[Texatru]

Oh, so that's why the early Christians were never persecuted by the Rom....

oh, wait. Ancient China and pre-Colonial America were so peaceful, too. Not.

Once the Christians obtained power, they themselves engaged in religious persecutions far beyond those of the Roman empire since they persecuted everyone who was not Christian (or even those not sufficiently Christian, or those practicing Christianity deemed 'heretical').

The Romans only persecuted (religiously) those who would not accept the divinity of the Emperor, so it seems to be limited to persecuting the Christians, Jews and the Druids. Other polytheistic groups had less problems integrating the Emperor into their pantheons.

I dunno - who WAS the biggest persecutor? And how would we resolve this objectively?

[Tladatsi]

Nope.

You know what I mean. :tongue:

Where there is art, there is culture, and if you build it they will come.

When asked what he thought of western civilization, Monadas Gandhi said...

"I think it would be a good idea!":smile:

[One Bad Pig]

Once the Christians obtained power, they themselves engaged in religious persecutions far beyond those of the Roman empire since they persecuted everyone who was not Christian (or even those not sufficiently Christian, or those practicing Christianity deemed 'heretical').

The Romans only persecuted (religiously) those who would not accept the divinity of the Emperor, so it seems to be limited to persecuting the Christians, Jews and the Druids. Other polytheistic groups had less problems integrating the Emperor into their pantheons.

I dunno - who WAS the biggest persecutor? And how would we resolve this objectively?
:shrug: We wouldn't.

[Passerby]

Once the Christians obtained power, they themselves engaged in religious persecutions far beyond those of the Roman empire since they persecuted everyone who was not Christian (or even those not sufficiently Christian, or those practicing Christianity deemed 'heretical').

The Romans only persecuted (religiously) those who would not accept the divinity of the Emperor, so it seems to be limited to persecuting the Christians, Jews and the Druids. Other polytheistic groups had less problems integrating the Emperor into their pantheons.

I dunno - who WAS the biggest persecutor? And how would we resolve this objectively?

I would argue actually that atheistic governments were bigger persecutors--recall Hitler and Stalin. Of course, persecutions happen in every place, but I think the most systematic, heartless, and brutal of them occurred here rather than other places.

[Jluk]

I hope no offense will be taken but why should we even discuss things that are above our knowledge and make a discussion that is not impactful or encourging to our brothers/sisters in Christ? We as a body of Christ has so many other things we need to focus on.

[Ashley-Cooper]

Say God decided not to reveal himself to men, and leave them to their own devices?

This should be a historical discussion only, okay?

Say the three never existed, hmm...The Zoroastrians or Manichaens would have taken their place. On the brighter side, there may have been a lessened chance of Justinian I trampling the fragile buds of Western philosophy, so the scientific revolution may have occurred centuries earlier. The socio-political causes for the spread of Christianity and Islam, however, would still have been present. Unless, by some streak of fortune, the vines of Western philosophy had prospered in spite of the political turmoil of the time period, there is no guarantee that history would have read much differently.

As for a world without the Hebrews, I don't really like to think about the idea of the Assyrians and other murderous clans in the region having one less enemy. Such cultures of murder needed to be exterminated. Say what you will of the Hebrews, but they did have the good sense to realize that some of their neighbors were dangerous savages.

[pablo]

Say God decided not to reveal himself to men, and leave them to their own devices?

This should be a historical discussion only, okay?

Say the three never existed, hmm...

the whole world will be pagan worshipper and were all bound to hell because there is no salvation.

i will sourly wish that i never born because after all of this, there is no hope.

[LambofElohim]

Greetings,

Then "God" Himself would not have had to come to the earth in the flesh as His own Son and try to stop the first one from continuing. Then "Jesus Christ" wouldn't have to come and stop the rest of them from continuing.

Reverend Carlton

[shunyadragon]

Say God decided not to reveal himself to men, and leave them to their own devices?

This should be a historical discussion only, okay?

Say the three never existed, hmm...

The world might have been a better place.But than again human nature does not change, therefore something else would have replaced them.

[FreezBee]

Say God decided not to reveal himself to men, and leave them to their own devices?

This should be a historical discussion only, okay?

Say the three never existed, hmm...

Then we would have to invent them. Otherwise TWeb wouldn't exist, and that would be a shame, wouldn't it?

[Moksha]

Depends whether you believe Religion is the engine that drives the car or just the oil that greased the wheels.

[EllisKing]

Hard to answer this question as i can't imagine a world without faith and religious ideas.

Sounds like Orwells 1984. We just think nothing and do as we are told by world leaders.

[Rushing Jaws]

Say God decided not to reveal himself to men, and leave them to their own devices?

This should be a historical discussion only, okay?

Say the three never existed, hmm...## Then the Assyrians could have gone further West & snuffed out Rome before it was established, & we would all be talking Assyrian :smile: & worshipping Asshur & Ishtar