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Problems with Penal Substitution.

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  • Problems with Penal Substitution.

    Introduction

    The atonement theology of the reformers (Luther and Calvin) teaches that Christ took the penalty of sin by being punished by the Father, by suffering and dying on the cross. Christ hen descended into hell to be punished before being raised by the Father to sit at His right hand. Thos who have faith in Christ are then justified by faith alone, whereby the righteousness of Christ is imputed to their account, even though the sinner remains sinful.

    Luther teaches penal substitution –

    But now, if God’s wrath is to be taken away from me and I am to obtain grace and forgiveness, some one must merit this; for God cannot be a friend of sin nor gracious to it, nor can he remit the punishment and wrath, unless payment and satisfaction be made.

    Now, no one, not even an angel of heaven, could make restitution for the infinite and irreparable injury and appease the eternal wrath of God which we had merited by our sins; except that eternal person, the Son of God himself, and he could do it only by taking our place, assuming our sins, and answering for them as though he himself were guilty of them.

    This our dear Lord and only Saviour and Mediator before God, Jesus Christ, did for us by his blood and death, in which he became a sacrifice for us; and with his purity, innocence, and righteousness, which was divine and eternal, he outweighed all sin and wrath he was compelled to bear on our account; yea, he entirely engulfed and swallowed it up, and his merit is so great that God is now satisfied and says, “If he wills thereby to save, then there will be a salvation. (Sermons of Martin Luther, vol. 2, p. 344)
    Luther teaches justification by faith alone –

    The first and chief article is this: Jesus Christ, our God and Lord, died for our sins and was raised again for our justification (Romans 3:24-25). He alone is the Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world (John 1:29), and God has laid on Him the iniquity of us all (Isaiah 53:6). All have sinned and are justified freely, without their own works and merits, by His grace, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, in His blood (Romans 3:23-25). This is necessary to believe. This cannot be otherwise acquired or grasped by any work, law or merit. Therefore, it is clear and certain that this faith alone justifies us ... Nothing of this article can be yielded or surrendered, even though heaven and earth and everything else falls (Mark 13:31).

    Luther, Martin. "The Smalcald Articles," in Concordia: The Lutheran Confessions. Saint Louis: Concordia Publishing House, 2005, 289, Part two, Article 1.
    John Calvin teaches Penal substitution and Christ’s descent into hell to suffer with the devil –

    How could he be angry with the beloved Son, with whom his soul was well pleased? or how could he have appeased the Father by his intercession for others if He were hostile to himself? But this we say, that he bore the weight of the divine anger, that, smitten and afflicted, he experienced all the signs of an angry and avenging God. Hence Hilary argues, that to this descent we owe our exemption from death. Nor does he dissent from this view in other passages, as when he says, “The cross, death, hell, are our life.” And again, “The Son of God is in hell, but man is brought back to heaven.” And why do I quote the testimony of a private writer, when an Apostle asserts the same thing, stating it as one fruit of his victory that he delivered “them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage?” (Heb. 2:15). He behoved therefore, to conquer the fear which incessantly vexes and agitates the breasts of all mortals; and this he could not do without a contest. Moreover it will shortly appear with greater clearness that his was no common sorrow, was not the result of a trivial cause. Thus by engaging with the power of the devil, the fear of death, and the pains of hell, he gained the victory, and achieved a triumph, so that we now fear not in death those things which our Prince has destroyed. [Vide Luther, tom. 1 in Concione de Morte, fol. 87. 12.]

    http://www.lectionarycentral.com/sat...nstitutes.html
    The following problems arise with the theory of penal substitution. If Christ is our substitute and we are impute a legal righteousness, then -

    1a – Jesus has deceived the Father and therefore the Father and Jesus are not God because God cannot be deceived, or sin.

    Or

    1b – Jesus has not deceived the Father and the Father knows Jesus is acting to save sinners by the imputation of Christ’s righteousness. The Father is then involved in a deception, or a lie, making the Father and Jesus sinners. Therefore penal substitution is blasphemous.

    Then

    1c – The Father and Jesus must also be redeemed by Jesus’ death and resurrection. Yet such is never taught in the scriptures. Therefore penal substitution is unbiblical.

    2 – The Father sent the son to do a sinful act to deceive the Father into believing we are righteous even though we are not. Therefore penal substitution is blasphemous.

    3 – There is no need for faith, because a substitute is a substitute for all our sins. Yet the scriptures say we need faith to be justified. Therefore penal substitution is inconsistent with biblical faith required for salvation.

    4 – Nobody can go to hell, because Jesus has already taken the punishment for sin as a substitute. Yet we are taught in Mat 25 that some men will go to hell. Therefore penal substitution is unbiblical.

    5 – The scriptures nowhere say Jesus was a substitute for our sins. The term propitiate is used, but never substitute. Therefore penal substitution is unbiblical.

    6 – The Holy Spirit is sent by the Father and the Son, after the Son has deceived the Father into thinking we are righteous, even though we are sinners. Therefore the Holy Spirit has been sent on a mission by a deceiver and the deceived, to guide the church into the truth of forensic imputation of righteousness, which is itself a deception. Evidently the Holy Spirit is also a deceiver and has been deceived. It’s as though the only real persons that are never redeemed are those divine persons of the Trinity. Therefore penal substitution is idolatrous.

    7 – There is no precedent in the OT for a substitute atoning for a sinner and the sinner having the substitutes righteousness imputed to the sinner, therefore if penal substitution is correct, it is not based upon the OT, so Jesus cannot be the Messiah, because he didn’t fulfil the OT. Therefore penal substitution is unbiblical.

    8 – There is no need for repentance because the substitute has been made and the Father sees all men as righteous. After all faith alone, is alone, which excludes repentance. Therefore penal substitution contradicts the doctrine of faith alone.

    9a – According to Calvinism, the substitute only has limited value because it’s not applied to all men, even though it’s a perfect substitute. Somehow the Father is deceived into thinking the substitute is only satisfactory for some men and not others, even though the Son was a perfect substitute. So the Father has been deceived in sending the Son as a substitute because the substitute didn’t work for some men even though Jesus was the perfect substitute. What’s a God got to do to be a substitute and perfect saviour when not even an imputed exchange that is external to the sinner cannot cover all men’s sins?

    Or

    9b – The Father arbitrarily decides not to accept the penal substitution for some men, but only others. This arbitrary decision by the Father makes him both a despot, or a false god. Therefore penal substitution leads to idolatry.

    10a – The scriptures have deceived us into thinking we need to do something to be justified and pleasing to God, even though according to Calvinism, man is depraved and cannot do a good act in the eyes of God. Therefore we are told on one had to have faith and this is enough to be justified by a legal process, yet we are also told men cannot do an act pleasing to God, so God justifies man, even though He is not pleased with men’s acts. What’s a man to do to be justified after all? Does he have to do an act pleasing to God and if so, is this is a meritorious act? Yes. If not, then why does man have to do any act at all to receive justification, when the perfect sacrificial substitute has already been made?
    10b – If faith alone justifies whereby faith is a gift from God, why doesn’t God grant the gift of faith to all men, rather than only some? If faith alone justifies, God must get some good out of men not having faith, for God only permits an evil to attain a greater good. Therefore God does not give faith to all men, whereby God gets a greater good from those men who do not have faith than those who do have faith. What then is the good God gets, that is greater than the atonement and glorification of the Son?

    11 – If God sends anyone to hell then He is being unjust, because Jesus has already taken the punishment for sin. Therefore penal substitution concludes to God being unjust, and therefore a sinner.

    12 – There is nothing intrinsic to the substitute of Jesus sacrificial act that makes the value limited to only some men, simply because according to Calvinism no man can do any act that pleases God. As no man can do an act that pleases God, then all men must be saved, yet according to scripture, not all men will be saved.

    “Thus, we too will be judged on the last day according to works. “

    Matt 25 clearly specifies works as justifying without any reference to an impute righteousness.

    13 – Nowhere do the scriptures teach that the non legal act of faith in an act of another man in the OT or of the God man Jesus Christ in the NT causes a legal imputation of Christ’s righteousness to the sinners account. Therefore penal substitution is unbiblical.

    14 - If the non legal act of faith can have Christ’s righteousness imputed to the sinners account then there must be something legal about the act of faith. Therefore according to the substitute theory, a non legal act that does not have legal righteousness, has a legal righteousness through imputation. But this infers a contradiction regarding the value of a non legal act that is then said to have a legal value. Therefore penal substitution is contradictory.

    15 - The nature of God is truth itself and when God says something about a thing, it comes into being what God says it to be. When God declares a man to be righteous, his declaration makes the man intrinsically righteous by His grace. However the substitute theory of imputed righteousness says man does not become righteous, but remains a sinner, even though God declares the man righteous. Therefore the theory of penal substitution and imputed righteousness by faith alone is unscriptural according to Gods infinite power to bring about what he truthfully declares to be real.

    16 – If Christ’s righteousness is imputed to the sinners account, then the sinner is not righteous, but only his account is righteous, therefore only the account gets to heaven and never the sinner. Therefore penal substitution insufficiently explains the cause of a sinners justification.

    17 - The scriptures teach that those in heaven are without sin, but this is not the same as a sinner having a righteousness imputed to his account, therefore the penal substitution theory is not scriptural.

    18 – The scriptures teach God is a supernatural being with an intimate life of the Trinity of Father, Son and Holy Spirit. As God is supernatural the just in heaven can only see God by having there minds supernaturalised by the light of glory as an effect of grace. As the human mind must be supernaturally elevated, and divinized to see God face to face in heaven, then justification cannot be an imputation of Christ’s righteousness to the sinner, but an infusion of the divine life of the supernatural God into the soul of the just man. Therefore penal substitution and faith alone theology is a false doctrine of man.

    19- Saints in heave are justified, yet there is no faith in heaven. Therefore the saints in heave are not justified by faith alone. Therefore penal substitution and faith alone theology is a false doctrine of man.

    20 – St Paul tells us that love is the greatest virtue. If we are justified by faith, then we are also justified by love, for love is greater than faith. Therefore penal substitution and faith alone theology is a false doctrine of man.

    21 – Hebrews 5:9 says Christ is a source of eternal life for all who obey him. As obedience is to follow a law, which is the law of Christ, then obedience is distinct and no the same as faith. Therefore those who are justified are justified by obedience and not by faith alone. Therefore penal substitution and faith alone theology is a false doctrine of man.

    22 – James 2 says man is justified by works and not by faith alone. However the penal substitution theory of imputed righteousness by faith alone says man is not justified by works. Therefore the penal substitution theory is not scriptural.

    23 – Christ is the perfect substitute for our sins, so logically all man can continue in their sins without repentance. But the scriptures say man must repent, therefore Christ was not the perfect substitute.

    24a – Imputed righteousness means Christ’s righteousness is credited to the sinners account. In this way the Father sees the sinner as righteous even though he is a sinner. If this is so, then there is no need to repent, because the Father always sees the sinner as righteous. Yet the scriptures teach men must repent, believe and keep the commandments and as Jesus says the woman caught committing adultery, go and sin no more. Evidently the logical conclusions of penal substitution and imputed righteousness contradict the scriptures.

    24b – Imputed righteousness means Christ’s righteousness is credited to the sinners account. In this way the Father sees the sinner as righteous even though he is a sinner. If this is so, then there is no need to repent, because the Father always sees the sinner as righteous. Yet the scriptures teach men must repent, believe and keep the commandments. Therefore penal substitution empties the scriptures of content and meaning on the themes of repentance and law keeping.

    25 - Imputed righteousness means Christ’s righteousness is credited to the sinners account. In this way the Father sees the sinner as righteous even though he is a sinner. Therefore according to this theory the Father either has 1) a limited power so he cannot really make a sinner intrinsically righteous, which is not scriptural, or 2) he has chosen not to make the sinner really righteous, even though he could by his power. If the later, then the Father has chosen an imperfect means by which men are justified, when he could have chosen a perfect means. As an imperfect means is not compatible with the perfection of God, the theory of imputed righteousness is against the perfection of God and is therefore unbiblical.

    25 - Imputed righteousness means Christ’s righteousness is credited to the sinners account. In this way the Father sees the sinner as righteous even though he is a sinner. Therefore according to this theory the Father either has 1) a limited power so he cannot really make a sinner intrinsically righteous, which is not scriptural, or 2) he has chosen not to make the sinner really righteous, even though he could by his power. If the later, then the Father has chosen an imperfect means by which men are justified, when he could have chosen a perfect means. As an imperfect means is not compatible with the perfection of God, the theory of imputed righteousness is against the perfection of God and is therefore unbiblical.

    26 - Imputed righteousness means Christ’s righteousness is credited to the sinners account. In this way the Father sees the sinner as righteous even though he is a sinner. According to this theory there is no way the sinner can suffer the loss of his salvation, because salvation is only a work of God by his grace of Imputed righteousness, which is external to the sinner. As the imputed righteousness, is external to the sinner (probably in the heavenly court), then the sinner cannot change Gods decree in the sinners account. But scripture says men can and do lose their salvation (see Galatians warning of a false gospel and Hebrew warnings of falling away), therefore men can change their imputed righteousness status by their sins. However according to the imputed righteousness theory, the imputed righteousness was originally given precisely because men are sinners and Christ is there substitute. So sinners are justified by an imputed righteousness, whilst remaining sinners, yet scripture says men are not righteous if they remain or return to their sins. Therefore the theory of Imputed righteousness is both unbiblical and illogical.

    27 – Scriptures refers to justification as a process by numerous references to a man having been saved, is being saved and will be saved. These verses indicate a past action that continues and will continue into the future based upon human actions through gods grace. However, the theory of penal substitution and imputed righteousness requires a once for all time event that occurred in the past for the sinner, who was saved and can never lose his salvation in the future. Therefore the theory of imputed righteousness is unscriptural.

    28 – The greatest commandment is to love God above all things and your neighbor as yourself. However according to the imputed righteousness theory, love of God and neighbor does not cause one to have Christ’s righteousness imputed to the sinner, because the action of imputing Christ’s righteousness is completed by faith alone. Therefore the greatest commandment has nothing to do with justification, which means God commands men to do acts, when he knows those commandments have nothing to do with making men right with God. Therefore, according to the imputation theory, God commands men to do futile acts. However, according to the scriptures, God cannot command men to do futile acts, because God is perfect, and to command a futile act is to be imperfect. Therefore the theory of Imputed righteousness is both unbiblical and against the nature of God.

    29 – According to Acts 2 that says “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. Then you will receive the Holy Spirit as a gift”, forgiveness of sins is obtained by repentance and baptism and not by faith alone. As the scripture require repentance and baptism for forgiveness and forgiveness is required to be justified, then a man cannot be justified by faith alone. Therefore the theory of Imputed righteousness is unbiblical.

    30 – Jesus was killed as a sacrifice to appease the wrath of the Father (Eph 2:5). But a sacrifice is not a substitute, for a substitute is to stand in the place of another, whereas a sacrifice is to destroy something of value to obtain favor from the person to whom the act is offered. As scripture says Jesus’ offering on the cross was a sacrifice and it never states Jesus was a substitute, the theory of penal substitution and imputed righteousness is unbiblical.

    More to come.

    JM

  • #2
    Originally posted by JohnMartin View Post
    . . . Christ [t]hen descended into hell to be punished before being raised . . ."
    Before we go beyond this. That is not Biblical and is pure heresy. The redemption was completed on the cross before Christ physically died. Many may well believe that included His physical death too. In either case the redemption was completed on the cross.
    . . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV

    . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV

    Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by JohnMartin View Post
      Introduction

      The atonement theology of the reformers (Luther and Calvin) teaches that Christ took the penalty of sin by being punished by the Father, by suffering and dying on the cross. Christ hen descended into hell to be punished before being raised by the Father to sit at His right hand. Thos who have faith in Christ are then justified by faith alone, whereby the righteousness of Christ is imputed to their account, even though the sinner remains sinful.

      Luther teaches penal substitution –



      Luther teaches justification by faith alone –



      John Calvin teaches Penal substitution and Christ’s descent into hell to suffer with the devil –



      The following problems arise with the theory of penal substitution. If Christ is our substitute and we are impute a legal righteousness, then -

      1a – Jesus has deceived the Father and therefore the Father and Jesus are not God because God cannot be deceived, or sin.

      Or

      1b – Jesus has not deceived the Father and the Father knows Jesus is acting to save sinners by the imputation of Christ’s righteousness. The Father is then involved in a deception, or a lie, making the Father and Jesus sinners. Therefore penal substitution is blasphemous.

      Then

      1c – The Father and Jesus must also be redeemed by Jesus’ death and resurrection. Yet such is never taught in the scriptures. Therefore penal substitution is unbiblical.

      2 – The Father sent the son to do a sinful act to deceive the Father into believing we are righteous even though we are not. Therefore penal substitution is blasphemous.

      3 – There is no need for faith, because a substitute is a substitute for all our sins. Yet the scriptures say we need faith to be justified. Therefore penal substitution is inconsistent with biblical faith required for salvation.

      4 – Nobody can go to hell, because Jesus has already taken the punishment for sin as a substitute. Yet we are taught in Mat 25 that some men will go to hell. Therefore penal substitution is unbiblical.

      5 – The scriptures nowhere say Jesus was a substitute for our sins. The term propitiate is used, but never substitute. Therefore penal substitution is unbiblical.

      6 – The Holy Spirit is sent by the Father and the Son, after the Son has deceived the Father into thinking we are righteous, even though we are sinners. Therefore the Holy Spirit has been sent on a mission by a deceiver and the deceived, to guide the church into the truth of forensic imputation of righteousness, which is itself a deception. Evidently the Holy Spirit is also a deceiver and has been deceived. It’s as though the only real persons that are never redeemed are those divine persons of the Trinity. Therefore penal substitution is idolatrous.

      7 – There is no precedent in the OT for a substitute atoning for a sinner and the sinner having the substitutes righteousness imputed to the sinner, therefore if penal substitution is correct, it is not based upon the OT, so Jesus cannot be the Messiah, because he didn’t fulfil the OT. Therefore penal substitution is unbiblical.

      8 – There is no need for repentance because the substitute has been made and the Father sees all men as righteous. After all faith alone, is alone, which excludes repentance. Therefore penal substitution contradicts the doctrine of faith alone.

      9a – According to Calvinism, the substitute only has limited value because it’s not applied to all men, even though it’s a perfect substitute. Somehow the Father is deceived into thinking the substitute is only satisfactory for some men and not others, even though the Son was a perfect substitute. So the Father has been deceived in sending the Son as a substitute because the substitute didn’t work for some men even though Jesus was the perfect substitute. What’s a God got to do to be a substitute and perfect saviour when not even an imputed exchange that is external to the sinner cannot cover all men’s sins?

      Or

      9b – The Father arbitrarily decides not to accept the penal substitution for some men, but only others. This arbitrary decision by the Father makes him both a despot, or a false god. Therefore penal substitution leads to idolatry.

      10a – The scriptures have deceived us into thinking we need to do something to be justified and pleasing to God, even though according to Calvinism, man is depraved and cannot do a good act in the eyes of God. Therefore we are told on one had to have faith and this is enough to be justified by a legal process, yet we are also told men cannot do an act pleasing to God, so God justifies man, even though He is not pleased with men’s acts. What’s a man to do to be justified after all? Does he have to do an act pleasing to God and if so, is this is a meritorious act? Yes. If not, then why does man have to do any act at all to receive justification, when the perfect sacrificial substitute has already been made?
      10b – If faith alone justifies whereby faith is a gift from God, why doesn’t God grant the gift of faith to all men, rather than only some? If faith alone justifies, God must get some good out of men not having faith, for God only permits an evil to attain a greater good. Therefore God does not give faith to all men, whereby God gets a greater good from those men who do not have faith than those who do have faith. What then is the good God gets, that is greater than the atonement and glorification of the Son?

      11 – If God sends anyone to hell then He is being unjust, because Jesus has already taken the punishment for sin. Therefore penal substitution concludes to God being unjust, and therefore a sinner.

      12 – There is nothing intrinsic to the substitute of Jesus sacrificial act that makes the value limited to only some men, simply because according to Calvinism no man can do any act that pleases God. As no man can do an act that pleases God, then all men must be saved, yet according to scripture, not all men will be saved.

      “Thus, we too will be judged on the last day according to works. “

      Matt 25 clearly specifies works as justifying without any reference to an impute righteousness.

      13 – Nowhere do the scriptures teach that the non legal act of faith in an act of another man in the OT or of the God man Jesus Christ in the NT causes a legal imputation of Christ’s righteousness to the sinners account. Therefore penal substitution is unbiblical.

      14 - If the non legal act of faith can have Christ’s righteousness imputed to the sinners account then there must be something legal about the act of faith. Therefore according to the substitute theory, a non legal act that does not have legal righteousness, has a legal righteousness through imputation. But this infers a contradiction regarding the value of a non legal act that is then said to have a legal value. Therefore penal substitution is contradictory.

      15 - The nature of God is truth itself and when God says something about a thing, it comes into being what God says it to be. When God declares a man to be righteous, his declaration makes the man intrinsically righteous by His grace. However the substitute theory of imputed righteousness says man does not become righteous, but remains a sinner, even though God declares the man righteous. Therefore the theory of penal substitution and imputed righteousness by faith alone is unscriptural according to Gods infinite power to bring about what he truthfully declares to be real.

      16 – If Christ’s righteousness is imputed to the sinners account, then the sinner is not righteous, but only his account is righteous, therefore only the account gets to heaven and never the sinner. Therefore penal substitution insufficiently explains the cause of a sinners justification.

      17 - The scriptures teach that those in heaven are without sin, but this is not the same as a sinner having a righteousness imputed to his account, therefore the penal substitution theory is not scriptural.

      18 – The scriptures teach God is a supernatural being with an intimate life of the Trinity of Father, Son and Holy Spirit. As God is supernatural the just in heaven can only see God by having there minds supernaturalised by the light of glory as an effect of grace. As the human mind must be supernaturally elevated, and divinized to see God face to face in heaven, then justification cannot be an imputation of Christ’s righteousness to the sinner, but an infusion of the divine life of the supernatural God into the soul of the just man. Therefore penal substitution and faith alone theology is a false doctrine of man.

      19- Saints in heave are justified, yet there is no faith in heaven. Therefore the saints in heave are not justified by faith alone. Therefore penal substitution and faith alone theology is a false doctrine of man.

      20 – St Paul tells us that love is the greatest virtue. If we are justified by faith, then we are also justified by love, for love is greater than faith. Therefore penal substitution and faith alone theology is a false doctrine of man.

      21 – Hebrews 5:9 says Christ is a source of eternal life for all who obey him. As obedience is to follow a law, which is the law of Christ, then obedience is distinct and no the same as faith. Therefore those who are justified are justified by obedience and not by faith alone. Therefore penal substitution and faith alone theology is a false doctrine of man.

      22 – James 2 says man is justified by works and not by faith alone. However the penal substitution theory of imputed righteousness by faith alone says man is not justified by works. Therefore the penal substitution theory is not scriptural.

      23 – Christ is the perfect substitute for our sins, so logically all man can continue in their sins without repentance. But the scriptures say man must repent, therefore Christ was not the perfect substitute.

      24a – Imputed righteousness means Christ’s righteousness is credited to the sinners account. In this way the Father sees the sinner as righteous even though he is a sinner. If this is so, then there is no need to repent, because the Father always sees the sinner as righteous. Yet the scriptures teach men must repent, believe and keep the commandments and as Jesus says the woman caught committing adultery, go and sin no more. Evidently the logical conclusions of penal substitution and imputed righteousness contradict the scriptures.

      24b – Imputed righteousness means Christ’s righteousness is credited to the sinners account. In this way the Father sees the sinner as righteous even though he is a sinner. If this is so, then there is no need to repent, because the Father always sees the sinner as righteous. Yet the scriptures teach men must repent, believe and keep the commandments. Therefore penal substitution empties the scriptures of content and meaning on the themes of repentance and law keeping.

      25 - Imputed righteousness means Christ’s righteousness is credited to the sinners account. In this way the Father sees the sinner as righteous even though he is a sinner. Therefore according to this theory the Father either has 1) a limited power so he cannot really make a sinner intrinsically righteous, which is not scriptural, or 2) he has chosen not to make the sinner really righteous, even though he could by his power. If the later, then the Father has chosen an imperfect means by which men are justified, when he could have chosen a perfect means. As an imperfect means is not compatible with the perfection of God, the theory of imputed righteousness is against the perfection of God and is therefore unbiblical.

      25 - Imputed righteousness means Christ’s righteousness is credited to the sinners account. In this way the Father sees the sinner as righteous even though he is a sinner. Therefore according to this theory the Father either has 1) a limited power so he cannot really make a sinner intrinsically righteous, which is not scriptural, or 2) he has chosen not to make the sinner really righteous, even though he could by his power. If the later, then the Father has chosen an imperfect means by which men are justified, when he could have chosen a perfect means. As an imperfect means is not compatible with the perfection of God, the theory of imputed righteousness is against the perfection of God and is therefore unbiblical.

      26 - Imputed righteousness means Christ’s righteousness is credited to the sinners account. In this way the Father sees the sinner as righteous even though he is a sinner. According to this theory there is no way the sinner can suffer the loss of his salvation, because salvation is only a work of God by his grace of Imputed righteousness, which is external to the sinner. As the imputed righteousness, is external to the sinner (probably in the heavenly court), then the sinner cannot change Gods decree in the sinners account. But scripture says men can and do lose their salvation (see Galatians warning of a false gospel and Hebrew warnings of falling away), therefore men can change their imputed righteousness status by their sins. However according to the imputed righteousness theory, the imputed righteousness was originally given precisely because men are sinners and Christ is there substitute. So sinners are justified by an imputed righteousness, whilst remaining sinners, yet scripture says men are not righteous if they remain or return to their sins. Therefore the theory of Imputed righteousness is both unbiblical and illogical.

      27 – Scriptures refers to justification as a process by numerous references to a man having been saved, is being saved and will be saved. These verses indicate a past action that continues and will continue into the future based upon human actions through gods grace. However, the theory of penal substitution and imputed righteousness requires a once for all time event that occurred in the past for the sinner, who was saved and can never lose his salvation in the future. Therefore the theory of imputed righteousness is unscriptural.

      28 – The greatest commandment is to love God above all things and your neighbor as yourself. However according to the imputed righteousness theory, love of God and neighbor does not cause one to have Christ’s righteousness imputed to the sinner, because the action of imputing Christ’s righteousness is completed by faith alone. Therefore the greatest commandment has nothing to do with justification, which means God commands men to do acts, when he knows those commandments have nothing to do with making men right with God. Therefore, according to the imputation theory, God commands men to do futile acts. However, according to the scriptures, God cannot command men to do futile acts, because God is perfect, and to command a futile act is to be imperfect. Therefore the theory of Imputed righteousness is both unbiblical and against the nature of God.

      29 – According to Acts 2 that says “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. Then you will receive the Holy Spirit as a gift”, forgiveness of sins is obtained by repentance and baptism and not by faith alone. As the scripture require repentance and baptism for forgiveness and forgiveness is required to be justified, then a man cannot be justified by faith alone. Therefore the theory of Imputed righteousness is unbiblical.

      30 – Jesus was killed as a sacrifice to appease the wrath of the Father (Eph 2:5). But a sacrifice is not a substitute, for a substitute is to stand in the place of another, whereas a sacrifice is to destroy something of value to obtain favor from the person to whom the act is offered. As scripture says Jesus’ offering on the cross was a sacrifice and it never states Jesus was a substitute, the theory of penal substitution and imputed righteousness is unbiblical.

      More to come.

      JM
      Posts like this are excreted when the source neglects Prov. 10:19.
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      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by JohnMartin View Post
        More to come.

        JM
        31 – According to Calvin, the theory of Imputed righteousness required that Jesus entered into Hell during his time in the tomb and only then did he satisfy divine justice. Yet scripture never states Jesus entered into hell to satisfy divine justice as a substitute for sinners. Therefore the theory of Imputed righteousness is unbiblical.

        32 - According to Calvin, the theory of Imputed righteousness required that Jesus entered into Hell during his time in the tomb and only then did he satisfy divine justice. This means that nobody can go to hell because Jesus has already done it for us and for another man to enter into hell would be an act of injustice. As we are told by St Paul that men do go to hell, then the theory of penal substitution and imputed righteousness is unbiblical.

        33 – According to Calvin, the theory of Imputed righteousness required that Jesus entered into Hell during his time in the tomb and only then did he satisfy divine justice for the elect. However there is nothing intrinsically different from the elect and non elect as regards the act of Jesus entering into hell, because the act of Jesus and the acceptance of the act by the Father is extrinsic to the sinner. As this act by Jesus and the Father is perfect, then it must be good enough to justify all men. Yet the acts of the Father and Jesus are said by Calvinists to be only for the elect and not all men, so Jesus’ substitutary action is imperfect and the Fathers acceptance of Jesus act is also imperfect. Therefore the work of Jesus is imperfect as a savior. But Jesus work as a savior must be perfect, because He is God. Therefore the theory of penal substitution and imputed righteousness is both unbiblical and against the nature of God.

        34- According to scripture keeping the commandments is easy (1 John 5:3) and we are not to sin (Matthew 18:8, Mark 10:19) to enter into eternal life –

        1 John 5:3 - This is love for God: to obey his commands. And his commands are not burdensome

        Matthew 18:8
        If your hand or your foot causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life maimed or crippled than to have two hands or two feet and be thrown into eternal fire.

        Mark 10:17 As Jesus started on his way, a man ran up to him and fell on his knees before him. "Good teacher," he asked, "what must I do to inherit eternal life?" 18"Why do you call me good?" Jesus answered. "No one is good—except God alone. 19You know the commandments: 'Do not murder, do not commit adultery, do not steal, do not give false testimony, do not defraud, honor your Father and mother.”

        But Calvinism says all man need do to enter into eternal life is to believe and Christs righteousness imputed to his account. Therefore Calvinism is inconsistent with scripture.

        35- God never asks man to do something he cannot do without Gods help. But God commands that men keep the commandments to enter into eternal life. Yet Calvinism teaches man cannot keep the commandments to enter into eternal life, therefore according to Calvinism, God is unjust and doesn’t give enough help for men to keep the commandments. But according to scripture keeping the commandments is easy (1 John 5:3), therefore Calvinism is inconsistent with scripture.

        36- Calvinism says men are sinners until they enter into eternal life in heaven. And according to Calvinism and scripture, heaven has no sin, but according to Calvinism there must be something done to the sinner between death and heaven to be transformed from a sinner into a saint who keeps the commandments perfectly. But Calvinism denies and intermediate state between this life and heaven. Therefore Calvinism is inconsistent with itself and scripture.

        37- Calvinism teaches the merit of Christ’s atonement is imputed to the sinner when the sinner has faith. Therefore according to Calvinism, Christ’s atonement only has a value whereby Gods righteousness is imputed. But to impute is to merely state or declare something to be, without the righteousness actually existing in the justified sinner. Therefore, as the imputation of Christ’s righteousness has the same value as Christ’s intrinsic righteousness, as he is God, then Jesus must only be declared to be righteous by the Father, because the equivalent value is the same for both Christ and the justified sinner. Therefore Christ is not intrinsically righteous, therefore he did not keep the commandments and therefore he was not God.

        38- Calvinism teaches the merit of Christ’s atonement is imputed to the sinner when the sinner has faith. Therefore according to Calvinism, Christ’s atonement only has a value whereby Gods righteousness is imputed. But to impute is to merely state or declare something to be, without the righteousness actually existing in the justified sinner. Therefore, as the imputation of Christ’s righteousness has the same value as Christ’s intrinsic righteousness, as he is God, then the sinner cannot only be declared to be God, but is God, just as Jesus is God. But sinners are not God, but are creatures. Therefore Calvinism is inconsistent with itself concerning the nature of justification and Christ’s righteousness.

        39- The righteousness of God is the divine essence itself, for the divine nature is the eternal law and therefore the divine nature always acts perfectly in accordance with the law, as it is the eternal law. But Calvinism teaches the merit of Christ’s atonement is imputed to the sinner when the sinner has faith. Therefore according to Calvinism, Christ’s atonement only has a value whereby Gods righteousness is imputed. But to impute Gods righteousness to another, is against the nature of God, for God does not impute His own righteousness to himself, but is righteousness itself as the eternal law. Therefore Calvinism is inconsistent with the nature of righteousness of God and its application to a sinner as an imputed righteousness.

        40- The righteousness of God is the nature of God as He is supernatural. The saints see Gods righteousness and participate in His righteousness in heaven. Therefore the saints in heaven must participate in the nature of God as He is supernatural for them to see him face to face as children of God. As this vision of God is the final stage of justification, as glorification, then justification must of itself be an infusion of Gods righteousness into the soul of the saint on earth for the saint to see God in heaven. But Calvinism teaches justification is not the infusion of the divine life into the soul of the saint, but only an imputation of Christ’s righteousness. Therefore Calvinism is inconsistent with the scriptural truth of saints in heaven seeing God face to face as a supernatural vision of the Trinity.

        41- Calvinism teaches faith is an instrument of mans justification whereby the righteousness of Christ is imputed to the sinners account. However faith is a git of God as an effect of the atonement along with other virtues such as hope, love, patient, humility, chastity and so on. Therefore there is nothing unique about the origin of faith as a gift from God. But Calvinism teaches faith is unique as it alone is required to be justified with God. However as there are many other virtues that are given by God, there is no intrinsic reason why the other virtues cannot please god and justify the sinner. Therefore Calvinism is arbitrary in its appointing faith alone as an instrument for mans justification and is therefore invalidated.

        42- Calvinism does not define grace as a thing, but only a favour. Yet Calvinism teaches it is by grace that the will of the sinner is brought from loving a creature to loving the Father above all things. But for grace to act in the will, grace must be more than mere favour, but a physical reality acting inside the powers of the human soul to transform the sinner into a saint. Therefore Calvinism is invalidate according to its internal inconsistency by referring to grace as a mere favour and then as more than a mere favour, as a thing acting in the will.

        43- Calvinism makes an arbitrary distinction between justification and sanctification. Justification is the imputation Christs righteousness to his account and sanctification is the life lived after justification to merit a greater reward in heaven. Yet the life lived after justification is not the life of a man who can keep the commandments, so sanctification is a mere fiction, following upon an imputed justification. Therefore Calvinism is inconsistent in its understanding of the value of moral acts after justification.

        44- Calvinism makes an arbitrary distinction between justification and sanctification not found in scripture, therefore Calvinism is unscriptural.

        45- Calvinism ignores the testimony of the church Fathers, who did not teach a man is justified by faith alone, but by faith and works. Therefore Calvinism is inconsistent with the voice of the Holy Spirit teaching within the church and is therefore inconsistent with church tradition.

        46 – Calvinism bases its doctrine on the premise that scripture is the Word of God. However the texts said to be written by God, never define the meaning of the term inspiration, other than in 2 Timothy 3:16 - All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness. . .
        But as “God breathed” is only a metaphor, then all Calvin’s doctrines are based upon a text having the quality of a metaphor. But a metaphor does not inform us directly of the nature of the thing being spoken about. Therefore Calvin’s doctrines are based upon a text, which we don’t know the intrinsic value of regarding Gods authorship, and as we don’t know, then we don’t know if Calvin’s doctrines are from God or not. Therefore as Calvinism is based upon a negative premise (we don’t know the value of the text), and as nothing positive comes from a negative, then any positive conclusion in Calvinism is illogical, which invalidates Calvinism.

        JM

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by NorrinRadd View Post
          Posts like this are excreted when the source neglects Prov. 10:19.
          This does not address the many problems associated with penal substitution.

          JM

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by JM
            Christ hen descended into hell to be punished before being raised by the Father to sit at His right hand.
            I didn't read your entire thing, too long. But right away this statement struck me as incorrect. Christ did not descend into hell to be punished. He descended there to proclaim His victory over sin and death.

            1 Peter 3:19 being one of those that states this.


            Securely anchored to the Rock amid every storm of trial, testing or tribulation.

            Comment


            • #7
              As others have pointed out already, you're conflating the Doctrine of Penal Substitution and the teaching that Christ was punished while He was in hell. There might be some people who believe in this teaching, but you will not find it repeated in the Book of Concord, and if Luther did state anything close to it is not required that a Confessional Lutheran believe in it. Here's what the Book of Concord has to say about Christ's descent into hell:

              Source: The Solid Declaration of the Formula of Concord, Article IX. Christ's Descent to Hell


              1] And since even in the ancient Christian teachers of the Church, as well as in some among our teachers, dissimilar explanations of the article concerning the descent of Christ to hell are found, we abide in like manner by the simplicity of our Christian faith [comprised in the Creed], to which Dr. Luther in his sermon, which was delivered in the castle at Torgau in the year 1533, concerning the descent of Christ to hell, has pointed us, where we confess: I believe in the Lord Christ, God's Son, our Lord, dead, buried, and descended into hell. For in this [Confession] the burial and descent of Christ to hell are distinguished as different articles; 2] and we simply believe that the entire person, God and man, after the burial descended into hell, conquered the devil, destroyed the power of hell, and took from the devil all his might. 3] We should not, however, trouble ourselves with high and acute thoughts as to how this occurred; for with our reason and our five senses this article can be comprehended as little as the preceding one, how Christ is placed at the right hand of the almighty power and majesty of God; but we are simply to believe it and adhere to the Word [in such mysteries of faith]. Thus we retain the substance [sound doctrine] and [true] consolation that neither hell nor the devil can take captive or injure us and all who believe in Christ.

              http://bookofconcord.org/sd-descent.php

              © Copyright Original Source

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Mossrose
                1 Peter 3:19 being one of those that states this.
                It says that he was brought to life by the Spirit, and preached to the spirits in prison by the Spirit. Whatever it is talking about, it isn't saying that he preached to the spirits in prison while he was still dead.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Obsidian View Post
                  It says that he was brought to life by the Spirit, and preached to the spirits in prison by the Spirit. Whatever it is talking about, it isn't saying that he preached to the spirits in prison while he was still dead.


                  Commentary on 1 Peter 3:19 summarized:

                  Part of God's purpose in Christ's death involved His activities between His death and Resurrection. His living spirit went to the demon spirits bound in the Abyss and proclaimed victory in spite of death. Peter further explained that the Abyss is inhabited by bound demons that have been there since the time of Noah. They were sent there because they overstepped the limits of God's tolerance with their wickedness. Not even 120 of Noah's example and preaching had stemmed the tide of wickedness in his time (Gen.6:1-8). Thus God bound these demons permanently in the Abyss until their final sentencing.

                  MacArthur Bible Commentary, pg. 1916


                  Securely anchored to the Rock amid every storm of trial, testing or tribulation.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by JohnMartin View Post
                    John Calvin teaches Penal substitution and Christ’s descent into hell to suffer with the devil –
                    Not in the passage quoted, he doesn't.
                    Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

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                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by JohnMartin View Post
                      Introduction

                      The atonement theology of the reformers (Luther and Calvin) teaches that Christ took the penalty of sin by being punished by the Father, by suffering and dying on the cross. Christ hen descended into hell to be punished before being raised by the Father to sit at His right hand. Thos who have faith in Christ are then justified by faith alone, whereby the righteousness of Christ is imputed to their account, even though the sinner remains sinful.
                      Actually, Lutheran theology teaches something like this: That Christ took the penalty of sin by suffering and dying on the cross, "descended into hell, conquered the devil, destroyed the power of hell, and took from the devil all his might"*, after which he was raised by the Father to His right hand. Those who have faith in Christ and His work and are baptised into Christ are imputed with Christ's righteousness and receive the Holy Spirit. Their sinful inclinations and nature (i.e original sin) still remain, but they are not held accountable for them, and the Holy Spirit creates and begins to nurture a new nature in them.

                      Source: Defense of the Augsburg Confession

                      32] In reference to original sin we therefore hold nothing differing either from Scripture or from the Church catholic, but cleanse from corruptions and restore to light most important declarations of Scripture and of the Fathers, that had been covered over by the sophistical controversies of modern theologians. For it is manifest from the subject itself that modern theologians have not noticed what the Fathers meant when they spake of defect [lack of original righteousness]. 33] But the knowledge of original sin is necessary. For the magnitude of the grace of Christ cannot be understood [no one can heartily long and have a desire for Christ, for the inexpressibly great treasure of divine favor and grace which the Gospel offers], unless our diseases be recognized. [As Christ says Matt. 9:12; Mark 2:17: They that are whole need not a physician.] The entire righteousness of man is mere hypocrisy [and abomination] before God, unless we acknowledge that our heart is naturally 34] destitute of love, fear, and confidence in God [that we are miserable sinners who are in disgrace with God]. For this reason the prophet Jeremiah 31:19, says: After that I was instructed, I smote upon my thigh. Likewise Ps. 116:11: I said in my haste, All men are liars, i.e., not thinking aright concerning God.

                      35] Here our adversaries inveigh against Luther also because he wrote that "Original sin remains after Baptism." They add that this article was justly condemned by Leo X. But His Imperial Majesty will find on this point a manifest slander. For our adversaries know in what sense Luther intended this remark that original sin remains after Baptism. He always wrote thus, namely, that Baptism removes the guilt of original sin, although the material, as they call it, of the sin, i.e., concupiscence, remains. He also added in reference to the material that the Holy Ghost, given through Baptism, begins to mortify the concupiscence, and creates new movements [a new light, a new sense and spirit] in man. 36] In the same-manner, Augustine also speaks, who says: Sin is remitted in Baptism, not in such a manner that it no longer exists, but so that it is not imputed. Here he confesses openly that sin exists, i.e., that it remains, although it is not imputed. And this judgment was so agreeable to those who succeeded him that it was recited also in the decrees. Also against Julian, Augustine says: The Law, which is in the members, has been annulled by spiritual regeneration, and remains in the mortal flesh. It has been annulled because the guilt has been remitted in the Sacrament, by which believers are born again; but it remains, because it produces desires, against which believers contend. 37] Our adversaries know that Luther believes and teaches thus, and while they cannot reject the matter they nevertheless pervert his words, in order by this artifice to crush an innocent man.

                      © Copyright Original Source



                      http://bookofconcord.org/defense_2_o...sin.php#para32


                      *http://bookofconcord.org/sd-descent.php

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Mossrose
                        MacArthur Bible Commentary, pg. 1916
                        The passage doesn't say that the Holy Spirit preached to the spirits. It says that Jesus did. Also, in context it is not referring to an activity "in between his death and resurrection." It seems to be referring to an activity after his resurrection.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Obsidian View Post
                          The passage doesn't say that the Holy Spirit preached to the spirits. It says that Jesus did. Also, in context it is not referring to an activity "in between his death and resurrection." It seems to be referring to an activity after his resurrection.
                          18. For Christ also died for sins once for all, the just for the unjust, so that He might bring us to God, having been put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit;
                          19. in which also He went and made proclamation to the spirits now in prison,
                          20. who once were disobedient, when the patience of God kept waiting in the days of Noah, during the construction of the ark, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were brought safely through the water.
                          It refers to Christ being alive in the spirit. It says Christ went and proclaimed victory to the bound spirits. I never said the Holy Spirit did that, although in the strictest sense of the Trinity you could say that if the Son did it, do so did the Spirit, and so did the Father.

                          Put to death in the flesh, made alive in the spirit, went and made proclamation to the bound spirits all in the same context. Resurrection is not mentioned in the context in these verses.


                          Securely anchored to the Rock amid every storm of trial, testing or tribulation.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by mossrose View Post
                            I didn't read your entire thing, too long. But right away this statement struck me as incorrect. Christ did not descend into hell to be punished. He descended there to proclaim His victory over sin and death.

                            1 Peter 3:19 being one of those that states this.
                            Christ's descent into hell is a Calvinist doctrine tied up with the doctrine of penal substitution. You are correct to argue against the Calvinist doctrine by quoting scripture that Christ proclaimed His victory over sin and death.

                            JM

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Chrawnus View Post
                              As others have pointed out already, you're conflating the Doctrine of Penal Substitution and the teaching that Christ was punished while He was in hell.
                              In Calvinism, both doctrines are tied together.

                              There might be some people who believe in this teaching, but you will not find it repeated in the Book of Concord, and if Luther did state anything close to it is not required that a Confessional Lutheran believe in it. Here's what the Book of Concord has to say about Christ's descent into hell:

                              According to Calvin, Christ suffered in hell. See Calvin's institutes of the Christian religion -

                              But, apart from the Creed, we must seek for a surer exposition of Christ’s descent to hell: and the word of God furnishes us with one not only pious and holy, but replete with excellent consolation. Nothing had been done if Christ had only endured corporeal death. In order to interpose between us and God’s anger, and satisfy his righteous judgement, it was necessary that he should feel the weight of divine vengeance. Whence also it was necessary that he should engage, as it were, at close quarters with the powers of hell and the horrors of eternal death.

                              We lately quoted from the Prophet, that the “chastisement of our peace was laid upon him” that he “was bruised for our iniquities” that he “bore our infirmities;” expressions which intimate, that, like a sponsor and surety for the guilty, and, as it were, subjected to condemnation, he undertook and paid all the penalties which must have been exacted from them, the only exception being, that the pains of death could not hold him. Hence there is nothing strange in its being said that he descended to hell, seeing he endured the death which is inflicted on the wicked by an angry God. It is frivolous and ridiculous to object that in this way the order is perverted, it being absurd that an event which preceded burial should be placed after it. But after explaining what Christ endured in the sight of man, the Creed appropriately adds the invisible and incomprehensible judgement [so the cross as visible judgment was not enough. Christ suffered in hell…] which he endured before God, to teach us that not only was the body of Christ given up as the price of redemption, but that there was a greater and more excellent price – that he bore in his soul the tortures of condemned and ruined man. [So after suffering in the body on the cross, Christ’s soul suffered tortures of the condemned in hell.]
                              http://www.reformed.org/master/index...hrist_in_hell/
                              The Catholic church, along with Lutheranism, reject Calvin's doctrine of the suffering Christ in hell.

                              JM

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