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Uncaused what?

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  • Uncaused what?

    Theists and deists believe God to be an uncaused entity.

    If you reject this notion - what is it or are there that you would regard as uncaused and why?
    . . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV

    . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV

    Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV

  • #2
    Originally posted by 37818 View Post
    Theists and deists believe God to be an uncaused entity.

    If you reject this notion - what is it or are there that you would regard as uncaused and why?
    I believe that God is an uncaused entity, but I do not believe there is a logical argument that proves this. On the other hand it possible that Natural Law and the Quantum World is possibly uncaused.
    Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
    Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
    But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

    go with the flow the river knows . . .

    Frank

    I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
      I believe that God is an uncaused entity, but I do not believe there is a logical argument that proves this. On the other hand it possible that Natural Law and the Quantum World is possibly uncaused.

      Can you give any kind of why for these?
      . . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV

      . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV

      Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by 37818 View Post
        Theists and deists believe God to be an uncaused entity.

        If you reject this notion - what is it or are there that you would regard as uncaused and why?
        Not sure. How could we tell the difference between something that is uncaused, and something which has a cause we can't determine?
        Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.

        MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
        MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.

        seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by 37818 View Post
          Can you give any kind of why for these?
          Why remains a hypothetical anecdotal claim by those that believe based on what is believed, and not a necessary qualification for the belief of either God exists nor God does not exist.

          Can you describe answering the question 'why?' is necessary.

          Actually there is the question unanswered, which is; 'If God exists, why did God created our physical existence as it is?'

          In general the Metaphysical Naturalists are not concerned with the issue of 'Why is the nature of our physical existence is as it is?'
          Last edited by shunyadragon; 06-22-2016, 11:39 AM.
          Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
          Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
          But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

          go with the flow the river knows . . .

          Frank

          I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
            Why remains a hypothetical anecdotal claim by those that believe based on what is believed, and not a necessary qualification for the belief of either God exists nor God does not exist.

            Can you describe answering the question 'why?' is necessary.

            Actually there is the question unanswered, which is; 'If God exists, why did God created our physical existence as it is?'

            In general the Metaphysical Naturalists are not concerned with the issue of 'Why is the nature of our physical existence is as it is?'
            The a question of why are as to your reasons for your previous answer.
            . . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV

            . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV

            Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Roy View Post
              Not sure. How could we tell the difference between something that is uncaused, and something which has a cause we can't determine?
              So as far as you can tell there need only be caused things. Is that correct?
              . . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV

              . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV

              Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by 37818 View Post
                Theists and deists believe God to be an uncaused entity.

                If you reject this notion - what is it or are there that you would regard as uncaused and why?
                Yes indeed, let’s never allow our ignorance to get in the way of a good God.

                Rejecting the idea of God does not mean that you have to replace it with something. You don’t know what you don’t know and sometimes you just have to leave it at that.
                “I think God, in creating man, somewhat overestimated his ability.” ― Oscar Wilde
                “And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that He would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence” ― Bertrand Russell
                “not all there” - you know who you are

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by firstfloor View Post
                  Yes indeed, let’s never allow our ignorance to get in the way of a good God.

                  Rejecting the idea of God does not mean that you have to replace it with something. You don’t know what you don’t know and sometimes you just have to leave it at that.
                  A non responsive reply. There is something that is uncaused. What might that be? That is the question. You simply ranted.
                  Micah 6:8 He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the LORD require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Jedidiah View Post
                    A non responsive reply. There is something that is uncaused. What might that be? That is the question. You simply ranted.
                    It's not, actually. "I don't know" is a valid answer. An alternative is not required.
                    I'm not here anymore.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Roy View Post
                      How could we tell the difference between something that is uncaused, and something which has a cause we can't determine?
                      Good question if you meant, "Any cause we can't detect, so far."
                      The greater number of laws . . . , the more thieves . . . there will be. ---- Lao-Tzu

                      [T]he truth I’m after and the truth never harmed anyone. What harms us is to persist in self-deceit and ignorance -— Marcus Aurelius, Meditations

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Truthseeker View Post
                        Good question if you meant, "Any cause we can't detect, so far."
                        It's entirely possible that we'll never be able to detect the cause.
                        I'm not here anymore.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by 37818 View Post
                          So as far as you can tell there need only be caused things. Is that correct?
                          No.
                          Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                          Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                          But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                          go with the flow the river knows . . .

                          Frank

                          I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by 37818 View Post
                            The a question of why are as to your reasons for your previous answer.
                            The answer stands as is. Why is not necessary.

                            Why remains a hypothetical anecdotal claim by those that believe based on what is believed, and not a necessary qualification for the belief of either God exists nor God does not exist.

                            Can you describe answering the question 'why?' is necessary.

                            Actually there is the question unanswered, which is; 'If God exists, why did God created our physical existence as it is?'


                            In general the Metaphysical Naturalists are not concerned with the issue of 'Why is the nature of our physical existence is as it is?'

                            Again . . .

                            I believe that God is an uncaused entity, but I do not believe there is a logical argument that proves this. On the other hand it possible that Natural Law and the Quantum World is possibly uncaused.
                            Last edited by shunyadragon; 06-22-2016, 06:47 PM.
                            Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                            Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                            But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                            go with the flow the river knows . . .

                            Frank

                            I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Jedidiah View Post
                              A non responsive reply. There is something that is uncaused. What might that be? That is the question. You simply ranted.
                              You have two clear choices for the uncaused cause. Either God, or if there is no God(s) the infinite Quantum World and natural law. It is unlikely that which unncaused cause is true cannot be objectively determined. As it is now it is ultimately based on belief in a philosophical/theological assumption either way.
                              Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                              Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                              But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                              go with the flow the river knows . . .

                              Frank

                              I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                              Comment

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