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Dallas police used C4 to kill suspect

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  • Dallas police used C4 to kill suspect

    After sniper fire struck 12 police officers at a rally in downtown Dallas, killing five, police cornered a single suspect in a parking garage. After a prolonged exchange of gunfire and a five-hour-long standoff, police made what experts say was an unprecedented decision: to send in a police robot, jury-rigged with a bomb.

    "We saw no other option but to use our bomb robot and place a device on its extension for it to detonate where the suspect was," Dallas Police Chief David Brown told a news conference Friday. "Other options would have exposed our officers to grave danger. The suspect is deceased as a result of detonating the bomb."
    Dallas Police Chief David Brown pauses at a prayer vigil following the deaths of five police officers last night during a Black Lives Matter march.

    At a Friday evening press conference, Dallas Mayor Mike Rawlings revealed that police used a common plastic explosive known as C4.
    "Given how many police [departments] have robots and given how versatile they are and the various uses to which they've been put, including in hostage situations, I think we'll find that there have been other examples of this," says Ryan Calo, a professor at the University of Washington School of Law who studies robotics and cyberlaw. "As far as I know, this is a first time that they've used a robot to intentionally kill someone."
    http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-w...-robot-to-kill

    Interesting new precedent to bomb target. How long before cop-killers copycat?
    Remember that you are dust and to dust you shall return.

  • #2
    I don't think we want to encourage the use of "bomb robots". Seems like a very bad idea in general.
    "I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
    "Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
    "[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Starlight View Post
      I don't think we want to encourage the use of "bomb robots". Seems like a very bad idea in general.
      US army been doing it for some time, I read. But for police to start?? Probably won't end well.
      Remember that you are dust and to dust you shall return.

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      • #4
        It was an inevitable progression from using drones to signature kills of suspected foreign terrorists abroad, to killing US citizens abroad without due process, to killing a US citizen in the US under extraordinary circumstances... to, in no time, killing US citizens on a regular basis. The progression is as clear as day.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by seanD View Post
          It was an inevitable progression from using drones to signature kills of suspected foreign terrorists abroad, to killing US citizens abroad without due process, to killing a US citizen in the US under extraordinary circumstances... to, in no time, killing US citizens on a regular basis. The progression is as clear as day.
          While I'm usually very skeptical of slippery-slope arguments, this actually seems to be a slope that the US is sliding down.
          "I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
          "Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
          "[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein

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          • #6
            wow. so the police killed a sniper with a robot to prevent further loss of innocent lives and you all think they are the bad guys? unbelievable. and yet if your lives were in danger the first people you would call would be the police, the very ones you keep castigating.

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            • #7
              This puts me in mind of the North Hollywood shootout where the police were severely outgunned..... you have a deranged sniper with a high power rifle wearing body armor impervious to the weapons Dallas police had at their disposal at the time, and they needed to end the carnage.

              But, you will always have Monday morning armchair quarterbacks calling the game!
              The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Starlight View Post
                While I'm usually very skeptical of slippery-slope arguments, this actually seems to be a slope that the US is sliding down.
                I think this borders on silly. An individual police officer will not be carrying bombs. Individual police officers do not deploy robots. These are rare situations where normal patrol procedures have failed, and these situations escalate to a command level.

                Even when a police officer uses 'conventional' deadly force, there's a shooting board or inquiry in which he is grilled, the situation analyzed, etc.
                The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

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                • #9
                  The North Hollywood shootings came at a time when California was arguing over just how much firepower the police should have. The shame of having cops go into a local gun shop to get the weapons they needed - which the owners willingly gave them - eventually convinced the local bigwigs to cough up the funds.

                  I didn't think about the body armor when I was puzzling out this report. Yeah, that was a real problem.

                  I'm afraid the patience of cops are getting really short these days.
                  Watch your links! http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/fa...corumetiquette

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                  • #10
                    Deadly force is deadly force. Doesn't legally matter how you kill the person, if their application of deadly force was justified in the first place. Police, in rapidly evolving and exigent circumstances have always used whatever weapon was either on hand or best suited for the job. I've studied cars being used to run over suspects, knives to stab them (close quarters struggle), guns, blunt force to the head, all kinds of methods. If the the application of deadly force was justified (and it appears this one was), then I'm not really sure why I'm reading complainants.

                    The only downside I can see is the potential for collateral damage...and I'm sure they did some sort of assessment to make sure they weren't going to blow up a room full of nuns along with the bad guy before someone with stars or bars on his collar made the call.
                    "If you believe, take the first step, it leads to Jesus Christ. If you don't believe, take the first step all the same, for you are bidden to take it. No one wants to know about your faith or unbelief, your orders are to perform the act of obedience on the spot. Then you will find yourself in the situation where faith becomes possible and where faith exists in the true sense of the word." - Dietrich Bonhoeffer, The Cost of Discipleship

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                      and you all think they are the bad guys?

                      Please to learn to read!!

                      Originally posted by myth View Post
                      I'm not really sure why I'm reading complainants.
                      Target hard to kill with bullets? Cops use explosives and blow him up.

                      Meanwhile, cops getting shot, and so try to make themselves hard to kill with bullets. What happens next? Copkillers going to keep just using bullets?
                      Remember that you are dust and to dust you shall return.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by demi-conservative View Post
                        Target hard to kill with bullets? Cops use explosives and blow him up.
                        When deadly force is justified, it's justified.

                        Meanwhile, cops getting shot, and so try to make themselves hard to kill with bullets.
                        Yeah, that's insane, isn't it?

                        What happens next? Copkillers going to keep just using bullets?
                        Criminals aren't governed by rules of engagement - cops are.
                        The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                          wow. so the police killed a sniper with a robot to prevent further loss of innocent lives and you all think they are the bad guys? unbelievable. and yet if your lives were in danger the first people you would call would be the police, the very ones you keep castigating.
                          Sheesh, relax. It's an interesting discussion without getting all emotional. Personally, I wasn't arguing whether it was or wasn't justified in this case. I was pointing out the clear gradual progression of its use. With each new stage of implementation, there is a new precedence set. Based on these progressive stages, we should expect it to be used on a regular basis in the US. Then eventually there is the issue of autonomous drones, which is also a future inevitability. But I think debate about whether it's moral or not is pretty much moot. The technology makes it's implementation inevitable.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Starlight View Post
                            While I'm usually very skeptical of slippery-slope arguments, this actually seems to be a slope that the US is sliding down.
                            The argument is valid when you can see the progressions taking place. The slippery slope argument can only be ruled invalid when it's a hypothetical.

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                            • #15
                              as far as crooks using robot bombs to blow up cops. explosives are not that easy to get or make as TV might make it look, outside of a war zone, and neither are getting robots large enough to deliver enough of it, without being noticed. It could happen but it would not be a common thing, and if it is going to happen, it probably would anyway. most of these kind of crooks are idiots and not technical explosive wizards. they are more likely to blow themselves up.

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