Does your avatar glorify God?

[malcolm]

1 Cor 10:31 So whether you eat or drink or whatever you do, do it all for the glory of God.

Some practical theology. A simple question, really: Does your avatar glorify God, or does it reflect the world?

On one "Christian" message board I have previously been a member of, one of the moderators actually had a picture of "Dr. Evil" from the Austin Powers movies as their avatar. It may seem like a small thing, but if you think God isn't interested in the small things, then you obviously haven't been reading your Bible properly.

3 John 1:11 Dear friend, do not imitate what is evil but what is good.

1 John 2:16 For everything in the world--the cravings of sinful man, the lust of his eyes and the boasting of what he has and does--comes not from the Father but from the world.

James 4:4 You adulterous people, don't you know that friendship with the world is hatred toward God? Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God.

Gal 6:14 May I never boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, through which the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world.


So, how does your avatar glorify God?

[Sozo]

Perhaps you should take into account the signature line with each Avatar.

[Blake Reas]

Hey, I agree with you but like Sozo said you need to take into account the subtitles!

In his loving Grace,
Blake

[Pilgrim]

Yes I think we should consider such things. And yes I think mine does and it also expresses my particular denominational ideas and theology.

[geebob]

God has a sense of humor, so yes.

[Pilgrim]

well said

[Ishmael]

My Avatar is the most godly and I will tell you why. Because Jesus loves soldiers and soldiers love big guns like the 155 Howitzer which is especially designed to kill Communists and fanatical terrorists alike.

"Kill a Commie for Jesus today. :smile: " -Calvinist

[yxboom]

Is that what your avatar is......a 155 Howitzer :hrm:

[The Laughing Man]

My avatar is Minsc from the "Baldur's Gate" games. The text is his motto (or one of them, anyway) and that's what I aspire to (figuratively, anyway). :yipee:

[The Laughing Man]

Oh wait... I changed it... Silly me. :doh: :dufus: :duh: It used to say, "Butt-kicking for goodness."

[Rubia Warren]

Well.... to be honest, mine does not glorify God. But Mary Katherine Gallagher DID go to catholic school.:brow: Just kidding. Nope. Mine sure doesn't.

[Ishmael]

02-21-2003 @ 04:26 PM
yxboom:

Is that what your avatar is......a 155 Howitzer :hrm:

That one might be a little smaller but I am with a unit that has one five fives.

[Captain Ochre]

02-21-2003 @ 06:18 AM
malcolm:

1 Cor 10:31 So whether you eat or drink or whatever you do, do it all for the glory of God.

Some practical theology. A simple question, really: Does your avatar glorify God, or does it reflect the world?


Did the lemonade I drank last night glorify God? Or, more properly, did drinking it glority God? Was the lemonade connected with a pagan festival of some sort? Not as far as I know, and I was thankful to the Lord for the lemonade, fwiw. The context of the 1 Corinthians passage deals with activity connected to pagan rites & the like, doesn't it?


On one "Christian" message board I have previously been a member of, one of the moderators actually had a picture of "Dr. Evil" from the Austin Powers movies as their avatar. It may seem like a small thing, but if you think God isn't interested in the small things, then you obviously haven't been reading your Bible properly.


I agree that God is interested in the apparent minutiae of our lives; otoh, I'm not sure that using a Dr. Evil avatar amounts to "imitation of the world". If somebody copied Dr. Evil's behavior, such as extorting "one million dollars" from world governments, then that would be "imitation of the world" in what I take to be the relevant sense: following a pattern of sin and rebellion against God.


3 John 1:11 Dear friend, do not imitate what is evil but what is good.


That passage seems to agree that sinful behavior is to be avoided. I remain unconvicted that an avatar image of "Dr. Evil" is sinful behavior.


1 John 2:16 For everything in the world--the cravings of sinful man, the lust of his eyes and the boasting of what he has and does--comes not from the Father but from the world.


Having a desire to look like Dr. Evil might count as an evil desire . . . but I sustain considerable doubt that the above passage is applicable to a "Dr. Evil" message board avatar.


James 4:4 You adulterous people, don't you know that friendship with the world is hatred toward God? Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God.


And, just so that we're clear on this, the above passage doesn't refer to either environmental activism (per se), or to buying something out of a catalog because you want what was portrayed in an image. Afaics, the passage conintues to refer to "world" in the sense of sin and rebellion against God.


Gal 6:14 May I never boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, through which the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world.


I can conceive of a boast such as "I have a Dr. Evil avatar!" being sinful, if the person delivering the boast actually thought that having a Dr. Evil avatar was a true mark of status rather than a fun joke.


So, how does your avatar glorify God?

Well, mine imitates "the world" in the sense that it portrays an image of something that is part of "the world" in the sense of being something "real" (not that the Captain Ochre character from "Captain Scarlet" is an actual person, but in the sense that "Captain Scarlet" is a real television show and the image was copied from that show).
It glorifies God in showing forth one of (what I see as) one of the purposes of the creation of mankind, via manifestation of the image of God in creative acts. Not ex-nihilo creative acts, of course, but in fashioning and overseeing God's creation.

We have great freedom in Christ, imo. Not to the point of being free to sin, but to the point of being free from having to think that every single thing that we do has to be seen as "holy" or "godly" or even "Christianese" by every person on the planet.
If we live lives which, by-and-large, glorify Christ, then smaller things like skull-and-crossbones avatars find their context in that life.

My opinion on the matter is this: If a brother stumbles because of my avatar and I become aware of it, I change my avatar for his sake as I proceed to help him grow as a Christian to appreciate our freedom in Christ. When my brother is more mature in his faith, I might return to my former avatar.
All this assumes the the avatar itself doesn't encourage sin, or consitute sin in and of itself, of course.
(Captain Ochre did once get high on some "alcohol-free" champagne that had been spiked by the Mysterons, resulting in catastrophe, but I maintain that he wasn't ultimately at fault).

[malcolm]

02-22-2003 @ 10:26 AM
Captain Ochre:
I agree that God is interested in the apparent minutiae of our lives; otoh, I'm not sure that using a Dr. Evil avatar amounts to "imitation of the world".

So what legitimate and God-glorifying reason would a Christian have for using Dr. Evil as their avatar, other than identifying with and imitating the world? :huh:


That passage seems to agree that sinful behavior is to be avoided. I remain unconvicted that an avatar image of "Dr. Evil" is sinful behavior.

It is true that using a picture of Dr. Evil as an avatar does not necessarily imply the imitation of Dr. Evil's behaviour. That would be rather incredible. However, I'm not sure you're really seeing the point here.

Choosing to use a picture of Dr. Evil as an avatar is choosing to use a "worldly" image, which is associated with a "worldly" movie, rather than choosing to use an image which is clearly associated with God and godliness. Why would a Christian do such a thing?


Well, mine imitates "the world" in the sense that it portrays an image of something that is part of "the world"

3 John 1:11 Dear friend, do not imitate what is evil but what is good.

So I'm assuming your saying that the "world" isn't really evil then, right?


We have great freedom in Christ, imo. Not to the point of being free to sin, but to the point of being free from having to think that every single thing that we do has to be seen as "holy" or "godly" or even "Christianese" by every person on the planet.

So Christ gave us the freedom to be holy in some aspects of our lives and unholy in others? Really? Do you have a Scripture reference for this?

If we live lives which, by-and-large, glorify Christ, then smaller things like skull-and-crossbones avatars find their context in that life.

It's strange. I don't find the term "by-and-large" anywhere in the Bible. Let's see, though:

1 Pet 1:15-16 But just as he who called you is holy, so by-and-large be holy in most of what you do; 16 for it is written: "Be holy, by-and-large, because I am holy."

Ah yes, there it is! :hrm:


My opinion on the matter is this:

Your opinion on the matter is as worthless as mine. We can justify pretty much anything by human wisdom and reasoning, and we can even use Scriptures to do it and make it sound nice and plausible. But the only "opinion" that counts is God's.

Of course, God is holy and worthy of ALL glory. Jesus Christ died for us, to save us from our sin. I'm sure, in the light of all that, He totally understands you wanting to use a picture from a television show as your avatar. :doh:

If a brother stumbles because of my avatar and I become aware of it, I change my avatar for his sake as I proceed to help him grow as a Christian to appreciate our freedom in Christ. When my brother is more mature in his faith, I might return to my former avatar.

Ah, right. I'm going to dig a large pit in my local park. Why? Well, just because I happen to like digging and I personally find large holes in the ground very interesting. After all, there's nothing sinful about a hole in the ground, right! It's all part of God's creation! Of course, if someone falls into that pit and breaks their ankle then I'll be happy to help them out (if I become aware of it) and take them to the nearest hospital. And then I'll fill in the hole for a while - just until they recover and learn to watch where they're going. Then I'll go out and dig another one.

Of course, some people might suggest that I shouldn't be going around digging pits in the first place and that I should do something better with my time but, hey, they're just legalists who don't understand my freedom in Christ and don't appreciate the value of a nice big hole in the ground.

[malcolm]

02-21-2003 @ 02:07 PM
geebob:
God has a sense of humor, so yes.

Hmm. True, God does have a sense of humor.

However, how exactly does your avatar reflect this and glorify God? Are you saying that God's sense of humor is the same as the TV show from which your avatar comes?

[malcolm]

02-20-2003 @ 10:30 PM
Sozo:

Perhaps you should take into account the signature line with each Avatar.

Good point. So how does your signature line glorify God?

[malcolm]

02-20-2003 @ 10:58 PM
Blake Reas:

Hey, I agree with you but like Sozo said you need to take into account the subtitles!

In his loving Grace,
Blake

Fair point.

Of course, Jesus saved us from death. But I don't recall him ever wandering around Judea dressed as the grim reaper.

Then again, as a Christian, I've been saved from Satan's power. Maybe I should use a picture of Satan as my avatar? :doh:

[Ishmael]

How does malcolm's picture of the "Loser sign" Glorify God?

I don't recall the Bible verse that instructs Christians to be losers.

[Jade]

02-21-2003 @ 04:24 PM
Calvinist:

My Avatar is the most godly and I will tell you why. Because Jesus loves soldiers and soldiers love big guns like the 155 Howitzer which is especially designed to kill Communists and fanatical terrorists alike.

"Kill a Commie for Jesus today. :smile: " -Calvinist

Yes, but is it the most humble? :thumb:

[yxboom]

I first thought the avatar was calling others "Loser" as the sign is intended to do, but I read his title so I refrained from commenting.

[Ishmael]

02-22-2003 @ 04:24 PM
Jade:



Yes, but is it the most humble? :thumb:

Yes it is. My Avatar is full of all graces and the fruit of the Spirit.

It will be serving "communion" (of sorts) very soon and will send many people to their eternal home.

[joelkaki]

Malcolm, I agree wholeheartedly with what you are saying, however, I am not sure that "Loser for Jesus" is appropriate use of language for a Christian. How does that glorify God?


Joel

[malcolm]

02-22-2003 @ 02:23 PM
Calvinist:

How does malcolm's picture of the "Loser sign" Glorify God?

I don't recall the Bible verse that instructs Christians to be losers.

02-22-2003 @ 02:25 PM
yxboom:

I first thought the avatar was calling others "Loser" as the sign is intended to do, but I read his title so I refrained from commenting.

02-22-2003 @ 02:36 PM
joelkaki:

Malcolm, I agree wholeheartedly with what you are saying, however, I am not sure that "Loser for Jesus" is appropriate use of language for a Christian. How does that glorify God?


Mark 8:35 For whoever wants to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for me and for the gospel will save it.

www.loserforjesus.org

[malcolm]

02-22-2003 @ 02:23 PM
Calvinist:
I don't recall the Bible verse that instructs Christians to be losers.

I've just quoted it. Now please quote the Bible verse that instructs us to love or glorify big guns.

[Ishmael]

02-22-2003 @ 04:47 PM
malcolm:







Mark 8:35 For whoever wants to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for me and for the gospel will save it.

www.loserforjesus.org

But that symbol does not mean "lose" as in "losing your life" it means "lose" as in "you are not a winner in life."

So you are redefining the image of the "loser hand" but we can't redefine any symbols?

[Ishmael]

02-22-2003 @ 05:01 PM
malcolm:



I've just quoted it. Now please quote the Bible verse that instructs us to love or glorify big guns.

It's right next to the one which gives you the freedom to nit-pick about people's Avatars. And close to the one that give you the freedom to do so without fear of retaliation from some fanatical government that might not want to hear your whining.

[Iceman]

Calvinist, that's genius. :thumb:

I believe that in the same passage of 1 Corinthians (where the verse comes from that started this whole thing) it says something about the weaker brother.

I think that the question itself is good. "Does/should your avatar glorify God?" We should all ask ourselves that question. But the answer is very complicated.

First of all, our avatars are not that big of a deal. They're very similar to the clothes we wear or the car we drive.

However, if I have an avatar that implies I'm a Satan worshiper (or a Dr. Evil fanatic), am I really giving an accurate representation of myself to others? (Sadly enough, many people form their first impressions of people on this forum through avatars.)

I feel that many of us, myself included, see this question and say, "You can't pick on me because of my avatar! C'mon! God isn't that picky. It's really not that big a deal so leave me alone." But do we really own our avatar? Is it ours and not God's? Is there any area of our life that shouldn't be affected by God's grace and saving power?

Just some thoguhts.


And for the record, I have my avatar simply because it matches my name and I think it fits. And I don't care if people judge me based solely on my avatar. That's their fault if they don't take the 5 seconds to read one of my posts and get an opinion for themselves. You can't judge a book by the cover, you can't judge a person from their clothes, and you can't judge a t-webber from his avatar.

[Sozo]

02-22-2003 @ 04:14 PM
malcolm:



Good point. So how does your signature line glorify God?

It is a description of those who have nothing better to do than focus on what everyone else is doing than to fix their eyes on Jesus!

[malcolm]

02-22-2003 @ 03:33 PM
Calvinist:
But that symbol does not mean "lose" as in "losing your life" it means "lose" as in "you are not a winner in life."

I am not a winner in this life or in this world.

Psa 17:14 O LORD, by your hand save me from such men, from men of this world whose reward is in this life.

Luke 12:34 For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.

1 Cor 4:13 Up to this moment we have become the scum of the earth, the refuse of the world.

John 18:36 Jesus said, "My kingdom is not of this world.

So you are redefining the image of the "loser hand" but we can't redefine any symbols?

No, I'm not redefining anything. How are you redefining symbols?


It's right next to the one which gives you the freedom to nit-pick about people's Avatars. And close to the one that give you the freedom to do so without fear of retaliation from some fanatical government that might not want to hear your whining.

I've checked either side of 2 Timothy 3:16 and all around 2 Corinthians 3:17 and, I'm sorry, I still can't find any reference to loving or glorifing big guns. Which Bible are you using?

Perhaps it would be easier if you just quoted me the verses.

[Pilgrim]

One might ask simular questions about your posting on an internet forum?

[malcolm]

02-22-2003 @ 03:49 PM
Iceman:
I think that the question itself is good. "Does/should your avatar glorify God?" We should all ask ourselves that question. But the answer is very complicated.

1 Peter 1:15-16 makes it very simple and clear.

First of all, our avatars are not that big of a deal. They're very similar to the clothes we wear or the car we drive.

Our avatars, in themselves, are not that big of a deal, true. However, what's in our hearts is a big deal.

Luke 6:45 The good man brings good things out of the good stored up in his heart, and the evil man brings evil things out of the evil stored up in his heart. For out of the overflow of his heart his mouth speaks.

This principle applies to avatars, clothes, cars, etc, etc. Such "outward" things are a reflection of what is in our heart. The question is not one of judging by outward appearances, but one of judging the motivation of the heart. In other words, it is not a question of whether a picture of Dr. Evil is good or bad, of itself, but of why any Christian would deliberately choose such a picture for their avatar. That seems like a perfectly fair question to ask.


I feel that many of us, myself included, see this question and say, "You can't pick on me because of my avatar! C'mon! God isn't that picky. It's really not that big a deal so leave me alone." But do we really own our avatar? Is it ours and not God's? Is there any area of our life that shouldn't be affected by God's grace and saving power?

Amen!

And for the record, I have my avatar simply because it matches my name and I think it fits. And I don't care if people judge me based solely on my avatar.

So how does your avatar glorify God?

[brother vinny]

02-21-2003 @ 06:18 AM
malcolm:
So, how does your avatar glorify God?

God made nuts. He made them with meat in them to be eaten. Pictures of nutmeats are examples of God's creative glory!

[malcolm]

02-22-2003 @ 05:47 PM
Pilgrim:

One might ask simular questions about your posting on an internet forum?

What kind of questions? :huh:

[malcolm]

02-22-2003 @ 04:52 PM
Sozo:
It is a description of those who have nothing better to do than focus on what everyone else is doing than to fix their eyes on Jesus!

Ah. And you feel that's best summed up by John Lennon and Paul McCartney rather than, say, the Word of God?

Heb 3:1 Therefore, holy brothers, who share in the heavenly calling, fix your thoughts on Jesus, the apostle and high priest whom we confess.

Heb 12:2 Let us fix our eyes on Jesus, the author and perfecter of our faith, who for the joy set before him endured the cross, scorning its shame, and sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.

[Pilgrim]

WEll you can worry about the avatars all you want, in the mean time, what about the orphan and the widow?

[Sozo]

02-22-2003 @ 07:52 PM
malcolm:



Ah. And you feel that's best summed up by John Lennon and Paul McCartney rather than, say, the Word of God?



Wow! You really are a loser!

However, I wouldn't say that you know that first thing about Jesus, but you might know alot about self-righteousness!

[malcolm]

02-22-2003 @ 05:54 PM
Pilgrim:
WEll you can worry about the avatars all you want, in the mean time, what about the orphan and the widow?

What about them?

James 1:27 Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world.

And you can ask vague questions about orphans and widows all you want, but what about the last part of that verse?

[malcolm]

02-22-2003 @ 05:57 PM
Sozo:
Wow! You really are a loser!

Thank you.


However, I wouldn't say that you know that first thing about Jesus, but you might know alot about self-righteousness!

Really? What makes you say that?

[Ishmael]

02-22-2003 @ 07:39 PM
malcolm:
I am not a winner in this life or in this world.

Psa 17:14 O LORD, by your hand save me from such men, from men of this world whose reward is in this life.

Luke 12:34 For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.

1 Cor 4:13 Up to this moment we have become the scum of the earth, the refuse of the world.

John 18:36 Jesus said, "My kingdom is not of this world.


That's not what the symbol you are using in your avatar and your webpage commonly means. It's meaning is generally thought of to be a pejorative about one's personhood. Are you trying to tell us that you think that God wants us to be a person who is thought of as a "loser" in life? The symbol you are using it NOT reflective of the verses you post.

Here is what that symbol can only mean (3 Dictionaries):
Jargon Dictionary:
http://kldp.org/~eunjea/jargon/?idx=loser.html
loser
loser n. An unexpectedly bad situation, program, programmer, or person. Someone who habitually loses. (Even winners can lose occasionally.) Someone who knows not and knows not that he knows not. Emphatic forms are `real loser', `total loser', and `complete loser' (but not **`moby loser', which would be a contradiction in terms).

Hyper dictionary:
http://www.hyperdic.net/dic/l/loser.shtml
Noun: person: A contestant who loses the contest.
person: A person with a record of failing. Someone who loses consistently.
person: A gambler who loses a bet.

The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language: Fourth Edition. 2000.
loser
SYLLABICATION: los·er
PRONUNCIATION: lzr
NOUN: 1a. One that fails to win: the losers of the game. b. One who takes loss in a specified way: a graceful loser; a poor loser. 2a. One that fails consistently, especially a person with bad luck or poor skills: “losers at home seeking wealth and glory in undeveloped countries” (Arthur M. Schlesinger, Jr.). b. One that is bad in quality: That book is a real loser.


No, I'm not redefining anything. How are you redefining symbols?


Okay then, you either don't understand the symbol's meaning or you don't understand what the verse you are trying to use a proof text actually means....

Mark 8:35 For whoever wants to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for me and for the gospel will save it.

The word translated "lose" above means "die" in the Greek and that is the usage of the word in this verse:
apollumi,v {ap-ol'-loo-mee}
1) to destroy 1a) to put out of the way entirely, abolish, put an end to ruin 1b) render useless 1c) to kill 1d) to declare that one must be put to death 1e) metaph. to devote or give over to eternal misery in hell 1f) to perish, to be lost, ruined, destroyed 2) to destroy 2a) to lose

On the other hand, the symbolic meaning of your Avatar is commonly understood as defined:
Jargon Dictionary:
http://kldp.org/~eunjea/jargon/?idx=loser.html
loser
loser n. An unexpectedly bad situation, program, programmer, or person. Someone who habitually loses. (Even winners can lose occasionally.) Someone who knows not and knows not that he knows not. Emphatic forms are `real loser', `total loser', and `complete loser' (but not **`moby loser', which would be a contradiction in terms).


I've checked either side of 2 Timothy 3:16 and all around 2 Corinthians 3:17 and, I'm sorry, I still can't find any reference to loving or glorifing big guns. Which Bible are you using?

Perhaps it would be easier if you just quoted me the verses.

We are talking about your Avatar.

Bottom line: It's okay for you to redefine the meaning of a symbol in order to "glorify God" but other people cannot. You get to decide who's avatar is godly and who's is not by the question, "So how does your avatar glorify God?"

So basically you are a judgemental hypocrite. Let me see if I can find anything on that in the Bible....

Matthew 7:5
Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.

Matthew 23:15
Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.

Matthew 23:23
Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

Matthew 7:2
For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.


My opinion, of course...

Calvinist

[Sozo]

02-22-2003 @ 08:14 PM
malcolm:
Really? What makes you say that?

One only has to read what proceeds from your heart.

[Ishmael]

02-22-2003 @ 08:10 PM
malcolm:

What about them?

James 1:27 Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world.

And you can ask vague questions about orphans and widows all you want, but what about the last part of that verse?

"Poluted by the world"? I wonder if that concept would include selling "sound doctrine" on the internet?
http://www.sdoctrine.org/store/enter.html

So, did Jesus sell his teachings in the Temple courts?

Luke 9:58
And Jesus said unto him, Foxes have holes, and birds of the air have nests; but the Son of man hath not where to lay his head.

Well???? Maybe Jesus should have sold his teaching; I mean, he would've been able to buy a house at least... You're doing the right thing by selling your "Sound Doctrine."

And you do have this nice disclaimer about it at the bottom of your page:

Please note that no purchase is necessary to order free items. If you honestly can't afford something, let us know. It is our joy to make ourselves poor for your sake.


:rofl:

[Ishmael]

So, did Jesus sell his teachings in the Temple courts?

[Rubia Warren]

malcolm, what in the world kind of avatar do you think would actually "glorify" God? Have you actually seen one that could actually glorify God? If so, then what, pray tell, were they?

[malcolm]

02-22-2003 @ 06:16 PM
Calvinist:
Are you trying to tell us that you think that God wants us to be a person who is thought of as a "loser" in life?

Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying.


We are talking about your Avatar.

Actually we are talking about avatars in general. You are simply talking about my avatar as a convenient means of distracting attention from your own.

Bottom line: It's okay for you to redefine the meaning of a symbol in order to "glorify God" but other people cannot. You get to decide who's avatar is godly and who's is not by the question, "So how does your avatar glorify God?"

I just asked the question. You're the one getting all defensive about it and trying to avoid the issue.

So basically you are a judgemental hypocrite. Let me see if I can find anything on that in the Bible....

My opinion, of course...

Prov 18:2 A fool finds no pleasure in understanding but delights in airing his own opinions.

[Ishmael]

Nice hack job on my last post.

02-22-2003 @ 09:18 PM
malcolm:
Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying.
Actually we are talking about avatars in general. You are simply talking about my avatar as a convenient means of distracting attention from your own.


No, you are being a judgemental hypocrite with increasing Bible thumping ferosity. You are a fake!


I just asked the question. You're the one getting all defensive about it and trying to avoid the issue.


I am actually quite on the offensive and I have already exposed your Hypocrisy a guile. Why don't you go back and respond to my post as I wrote it, instead of snipping, cutting and pasting from two of my posts.

THE ISSUE: Does you avatar glorify God? Yes mine does. Scroll up to see my post on it.

Now explain how yours Glorifies God in light of the proof that the symbol you use does not line up with the verse that you are claiming to attach to the symbol.


Prov 18:2 A fool finds no pleasure in understanding but delights in airing his own opinions.

With the dishonest way that you treated my last post, it appears to me that you need help in the integrity department too. I guess it's true that the problems a person has he or she tends to see in others.

As for the Proverb you just quoted, how about this bible verse, ever read it?:

Matthew 5:22
But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

You are really golirfying God now! Feel the Gloorrry!
1. Using a worldly symbol in your avatar which clearly does not mean what you say it does.
(see my last post)
2. Judging others implicitly. Quote from post #22349
(and this is only the most blatant time in this thread)

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02-22-2003 @ 04:52 PM
Sozo:
It is a description of those who have nothing better to do than focus on what everyone else is doing than to fix their eyes on Jesus!
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Ah. And you feel that's best summed up by John Lennon and Paul McCartney rather than, say, the Word of God?

Heb 3:1 Therefore, holy brothers, who share in the heavenly calling, fix your thoughts on Jesus, the apostle and high priest whom we confess.

Heb 12:2 Let us fix our eyes on Jesus, the author and perfecter of our faith, who for the joy set before him endured the cross, scorning its shame, and sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.

3. Calling people "fools" in direct disobedience to the teaching of Jesus on the matter. (see above)

[malcolm]

02-22-2003 @ 06:33 PM
Calvinist:
"Poluted by the world"? I wonder if that concept would include selling "sound doctrine" on the internet?
http://www.sdoctrine.org/store/enter.html

What are you specifically referring to? The fact that this site gives away hundreds of sermon tapes, CDs, tracts, and other materials completely free of charge? Or the fact that it also gives away all other items free of charge to those who can't afford them?

Either you are simply confused, or you are a fool.

Prov 13:16 Every prudent man acts out of knowledge, but a fool exposes his folly.

So, did Jesus sell his teachings in the Temple courts?

No.

And you do have this nice disclaimer about it at the bottom of your page:

Please note that no purchase is necessary to order free items. If you honestly can't afford something, let us know. It is our joy to make ourselves poor for your sake.

:rofl:

Which part of "free items" do you not understand? Which part of "if you honestly can't afford something" do you find so funny?

How much do you know about this ministry? How much have you been able to immediately discern from your extensive research of their website, church, and lives?

Prov 15:14 The discerning heart seeks knowledge, but the mouth of a fool feeds on folly.

[malcolm]

02-22-2003 @ 06:52 PM
La Rubia:
malcolm, what in the world kind of avatar do you think would actually "glorify" God?

One which is in line with the Word of God in 1 Peter 1:15-16.

Have you actually seen one that could actually glorify God? If so, then what, pray tell, were they?

Well, on this thread, for example, take Pilgrim's avatar and compare it to all the others. Most of the others would be quite at home on a secular, worldly message board. At least his gives some indication of Christianity and difference from the world.

Of course, this isn't a legalistic thing. There are not a set of rules which say which avatar is glorifying to God and which isn't. This is a matter of the heart.

[Ishmael]

02-22-2003 @ 09:28 PM
malcolm:
What are you specifically referring to? The fact that this site gives away hundreds of sermon tapes, CDs, tracts, and other materials completely free of charge? Or the fact that it also gives away all other items free of charge to those who can't afford them?

Either you are simply confused, or you are a fool.

Prov 13:16 Every prudent man acts out of knowledge, but a fool exposes his folly.


NO. You are selling your "right doctrine" at your "store." That you give away a few tapes is noble. It's worth laughing at because your charity is couched in your desire to make money.
Money is your desire or you wouldn't be selling anything at all.


Matthew 5:22
But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.


Which part of "free items" do you not understand? Which part of "if you honestly can't afford something" do you find so funny?


It's a "Store."


How much do you know about this ministry?


I know one guy affiliated with it who is presenting himself as a hypocritical, dishonest, judgemental jerk.


How much have you been able to immediately discern from your extensive research of their website, church, and lives?


I take issue with YOU. I don't have any issue with any of those other things. The "Store" post is just another example of your hypocrisy.


Prov 15:14 The discerning heart seeks knowledge, but the mouth of a fool feeds on folly.


Matthew 5:22
But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

[Ishmael]

02-22-2003 @ 09:34 PM
malcolm:
One which is in line with the Word of God in 1 Peter 1:15-16.


"One" meaning "an avatar." Okay:
1 Peter 1:15 But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation;
16 Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.

How is your avatar holy? As I have pointed out and you have ignored, your avatar means to call into question the value of another human person, just like you continue you to towards me in your Proverbs weapon verse. So again:

How is your avatar holy?


Well, on this thread, for example, take Pilgrim's avatar and compare it to all the others. Most of the others would be quite at home on a secular, worldly message board. At least his gives some indication of Christianity and difference from the world.


And yours clearly doesn't and yet you chastised Sozo for not using the Bible to express his very "Holy" thought about the state of the human condition.


Of course, this isn't a legalistic thing. There are not a set of rules which say which avatar is glorifying to God and which isn't. This is a matter of the heart.

Of course you are being legalistic. Go back and read what you posted in this thread in the begining, before no one started to point out your hypocrisy. Don't be a liar too.

[Ishmael]

Since Malcolm obviously missed this OR he just dishonestly is avoiding talking about the fact that his avatar is a wordly symbol and not in any way connected to godliness.

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
02-22-2003 @ 07:39 PM
malcolm:
I am not a winner in this life or in this world.

Psa 17:14 O LORD, by your hand save me from such men, from men of this world whose reward is in this life.

Luke 12:34 For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.

1 Cor 4:13 Up to this moment we have become the scum of the earth, the refuse of the world.

John 18:36 Jesus said, "My kingdom is not of this world.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



That's not what the symbol you are using in your avatar and your webpage commonly means. It's meaning is generally thought of to be a pejorative about one's personhood. Are you trying to tell us that you think that God wants us to be a person who is thought of as a "loser" in life? The symbol you are using it NOT reflective of the verses you post.

Here is what that symbol can only mean (3 Dictionaries):
Jargon Dictionary:
http://kldp.org/~eunjea/jargon/?idx=loser.html
loser
loser n. An unexpectedly bad situation, program, programmer, or person. Someone who habitually loses. (Even winners can lose occasionally.) Someone who knows not and knows not that he knows not. Emphatic forms are `real loser', `total loser', and `complete loser' (but not **`moby loser', which would be a contradiction in terms).

Hyper dictionary:
http://www.hyperdic.net/dic/l/loser.shtml
Noun: person: A contestant who loses the contest.
person: A person with a record of failing. Someone who loses consistently.
person: A gambler who loses a bet.

The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language: Fourth Edition. 2000.
loser
SYLLABICATION: los·er
PRONUNCIATION: lzr
NOUN: 1a. One that fails to win: the losers of the game. b. One who takes loss in a specified way: a graceful loser; a poor loser. 2a. One that fails consistently, especially a person with bad luck or poor skills: “losers at home seeking wealth and glory in undeveloped countries” (Arthur M. Schlesinger, Jr.). b. One that is bad in quality: That book is a real loser.


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

No, I'm not redefining anything. How are you redefining symbols?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Okay then, you either don't understand the symbol's meaning or you don't understand what the verse you are trying to use a proof text actually means....

Mark 8:35 For whoever wants to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for me and for the gospel will save it.

The word translated "lose" above means "die" in the Greek and that is the usage of the word in this verse:
apollumi,v {ap-ol'-loo-mee}
1) to destroy 1a) to put out of the way entirely, abolish, put an end to ruin 1b) render useless 1c) to kill 1d) to declare that one must be put to death 1e) metaph. to devote or give over to eternal misery in hell 1f) to perish, to be lost, ruined, destroyed 2) to destroy 2a) to lose

On the other hand, the symbolic meaning of your Avatar is commonly understood as defined:
Jargon Dictionary:
http://kldp.org/~eunjea/jargon/?idx=loser.html
loser
loser n. An unexpectedly bad situation, program, programmer, or person. Someone who habitually loses. (Even winners can lose occasionally.) Someone who knows not and knows not that he knows not. Emphatic forms are `real loser', `total loser', and `complete loser' (but not **`moby loser', which would be a contradiction in terms).


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I've checked either side of 2 Timothy 3:16 and all around 2 Corinthians 3:17 and, I'm sorry, I still can't find any reference to loving or glorifing big guns. Which Bible are you using?

Perhaps it would be easier if you just quoted me the verses.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



We are talking about your Avatar.

Bottom line: It's okay for you to redefine the meaning of a symbol in order to "glorify God" but other people cannot. You get to decide who's avatar is godly and who's is not by the question, "So how does your avatar glorify God?"

So basically you are a judgemental hypocrite. Let me see if I can find anything on that in the Bible....

Matthew 7:5
Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.

Matthew 23:15
Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.

Matthew 23:23
Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

Matthew 7:2
For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.


My opinion, of course...

Calvinist

[malcolm]

02-22-2003 @ 07:47 PM
Calvinist:
NO. You are selling your "right doctrine" at your "store." That you give away a few tapes is noble. It's worth laughing at because your charity is couched in your desire to make money.
Money is your desire or you wouldn't be selling anything at all.

Obviously, you haven't bothered to actually check out the "store" much.

James 1:19 My dear brothers, take note of this: Everyone should be quick to listen, slow to speak and slow to become angry,

Prov 13:16 Every prudent man acts out of knowledge, but a fool exposes his folly.

It's a "Store."

Which gives away 99% of its "merchandise" free of charge.

I know one guy affiliated with it who is presenting himself as a hypocritical, dishonest, judgemental jerk.

Really? Who?

I take issue with YOU. I don't have any issue with any of those other things. The "Store" post is just another example of your hypocrisy.

What hypocrisy? Giving things away for free? Glorifying God? Advocating holiness? Quoting Scriptures?

You seem to have a strange idea of hypocrisy.

[malcolm]

02-22-2003 @ 07:53 PM
Calvinist:
"One" meaning "an avatar." Okay:
1 Peter 1:15 But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation;
16 Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.

How is your avatar holy?

Because it represents something which is opposed to the world and separate from it. Your reaction against it is ample evidence of that.

As I have pointed out and you have ignored, your avatar means to call into question the value of another human person,

No, it doesn't. It means to call into question the value of me.

Rom 3:12 All have turned away, they have together become worthless; there is no one who does good, not even one."

just like you continue you to towards me in your Proverbs weapon verse.

You're the one who started getting defensive and making rash judgments. I was just providing you with some Scriptures to point out your error.

How is your avatar holy?

See above.

And yours clearly doesn't and yet you chastised Sozo for not using the Bible to express his very "Holy" thought about the state of the human condition.

Your own reaction proves my point.

Of course you are being legalistic. Go back and read what you posted in this thread in the begining, before no one started to point out your hypocrisy. Don't be a liar too.

What are you referring to? If you're going to accuse me of things, please be specific. What have I said on this thread that is legalistic?

[malcolm]

02-22-2003 @ 08:01 PM
Calvinist:

Since Malcolm obviously missed this OR he just dishonestly is avoiding talking about the fact that his avatar is a wordly symbol and not in any way connected to godliness.

I ignored it because it was irrelevant and simply a rather obvious tactic on your part to distract attention away from your own avatar and your own heart - a tactic which I notice you are zealously continuing to pursue.

As for my avatar not being in any way connected to godliness ...

Mark 8:35 For whoever wants to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for me and for the gospel will save it.

Now please quote the Scripture from which your avatar is derived.

[Ishmael]

02-22-2003 @ 10:02 PM
malcolm:
Obviously, you haven't bothered to actually check out the "store" much.

James 1:19 My dear brothers, take note of this: Everyone should be quick to listen, slow to speak and slow to become angry,

Prov 13:16 Every prudent man acts out of knowledge, but a fool exposes his folly.


Nice use of Scripture as a weapon, once again. Your "holiness" is starting to rub off on me too:

Matthew 5:22
But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

And as for James 1:19... I did listen to you and am listening now for an explanation of how your worldly avatar glorifies God. It is clearly a symbol intended to call people "fools." Something you love to do, it seems.


Which gives away 99% of its "merchandise" free of charge.


Because I am a gentleman, I will assume you are not lieing.


Really? Who?


The link is in your profile. If you are not affiliated then they are wise for not letting someone so judgemental and unloving as yourself soil their reputation.


What hypocrisy? Giving things away for free? Glorifying God? Advocating holiness? Quoting Scriptures?


You hypocrisy is your Avatar, one. Your use of Scripture as a weapon against brethren, two, and your dishonest cutting and pasting of my words, three.


You seem to have a strange idea of hypocrisy.

My idea of hypocrisy is the biblical one which I give you once again with explanation of why it applies to YOU.
http://www.searchgodsword.org/dic/ebd/view.cgi?number=T1854
One who puts on a mask and feigns himself to be what he is not; a dissembler in religion. Our Lord severely rebuked the scribes and Pharisees for their hypocrisy (Matthew 6:2,5,16). "The hypocrite's hope shall perish" (Job 8:13). The Hebrew word here rendered "hypocrite" rather means the "godless" or "profane," as it is rendered in Jeremiah 23:11, i.e., polluted with crimes






Matthew 7:5
Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.

“Beam” is equal to YOUR avatar.
“Mote” is Sozo’s.

~His is clearly meant to be a secular image which he has Christianized, and honestly so.
~Your avatar is a worldly statement that violates the second commandment explicitly:

Matthew 22
39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
41 While the Pharisees were gathered together, Jesus asked them,

Your avatar breaks this commandment explicitly by actually communicating to your brother that he is without value. Therefore, your avatar is not godly. Therefore, You are breaking the very spiritual principle on avatars that you are pretending to advocate. Hence, “One who puts on a mask and feigns himself to be what he is not; a dissembler in religion” are you.

[Ishmael]

02-22-2003 @ 10:11 PM
malcolm:



I ignored it because it was irrelevant and simply a rather obvious tactic on your part to distract attention away from your own avatar and your own heart - a tactic which I notice you are zealously continuing to pursue.

As for my avatar not being in any way connected to godliness ...

Mark 8:35 For whoever wants to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for me and for the gospel will save it.

Now please quote the Scripture from which your avatar is derived.

I don't have any Scripture for my avatar. Nor do I feel any particular need to have any. I thought this thread was quite ridiculous and did not intend to participate until I noticed that you were serious and being very judgemental about it to some of my friends.

Mark 8:35 does not mean what your symbol means. Go back and look at my exegesis of that verse. The Greek word for "lose" has a specific meaning which is not the same meaning at the "loser" symbol.

You need to either conceed the point that your avatar is ungodly like mine or concede that you have redefined the imagery for godly use. Very simple for an honest person.

[Ishmael]

02-22-2003 @ 10:09 PM
malcolm:
Because it represents something which is opposed to the world and separate from it. Your reaction against it is ample evidence of that.
No, it doesn't. It means to call into question the value of me.
Rom 3:12 All have turned away, they have together become worthless; there is no one who does good, not even one."


That is not what the symbol means. You are redefining it's meaning or just unaware of popular culture.

Dieing to self and having no human value are two different things.
The loser symbol is explicitly intended to mean the the person whom you are using it on has no value, "is a loser," "worthless," etc. Any honest person would quickly see the difference.

I refer to my previous post for definitions again.


You're the one who started getting defensive and making rash judgments. I was just providing you with some Scriptures to point out your error.


Yes. Once I discovered that you intended to judege people based on their repsonses. Which you did with Sozo quite explicitly.



Your own reaction proves my point.


I always react like this when something smells on Tweb. So don't think you are doing or gaining anything particularly insitefull.


What are you referring to? If you're going to accuse me of things, please be specific. What have I said on this thread that is legalistic?

I have been very specific and you have chosen to dodge the issue. If you have a question about something I have said, just ask AND just in case you can't find your legalistic implication to Sozo, here it is again:

Post# 22349
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
02-22-2003 @ 04:52 PM
Sozo:
It is a description of those who have nothing better to do than focus on what everyone else is doing than to fix their eyes on Jesus!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ah. And you feel that's best summed up by John Lennon and Paul McCartney rather than, say, the Word of God?

Heb 3:1 Therefore, holy brothers, who share in the heavenly calling, fix your thoughts on Jesus, the apostle and high priest whom we confess.

Heb 12:2 Let us fix our eyes on Jesus, the author and perfecter of our faith, who for the joy set before him endured the cross, scorning its shame, and sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.

[Pereynol of Sheer Dread]

Calvinist,
I've always liked your avatar!

[malcolm]

02-22-2003 @ 08:38 PM
Calvinist:
That is not what the symbol means. You are redefining it's meaning or just unaware of popular culture.

I'm not redefining the meaning.

Dieing to self and having no human value are two different things.
The loser symbol is explicitly intended to mean the the person whom you are using it on has no value, "is a loser," "worthless," etc. Any honest person would quickly see the difference.

Since I am using it on myself, then it is a perfectly accurate use of the symbol and its meaning, and perfectly accurately ties in with the Biblical use of the word "lose" in Mark 8:35.

As I already explained, although you apparently ignored it, my avatar is not directed at anyone other than me. It is not intended to call into question anyone else's value. It is intended to call into question my value. That's why my subtitle reads "Loser For Jesus" and not "You are a Loser."

The meaning is perfectly clear. Again, you're the one who has decided to take it personally and get defensive about it by attacking me, another ministry, and pretty much anything else you can find to lash out at.



I have been very specific and you have chosen to dodge the issue. If you have a question about something I have said, just ask AND just in case you can't find your legalistic implication to Sozo, here it is again:

That was a question. Accompanied by some Scripture. If you call that legalistic, then I can probably also assume that you find Jesus, Peter, Paul, and pretty much anyone who asks questions or quotes Scripture to be similarly legalistic.

[Ishmael]

02-22-2003 @ 10:52 PM
pereynol:

Calvinist,
I've always liked your avatar!

Thanks. :smile:

[Pereynol of Sheer Dread]

02-21-2003 @ 01:18 AM
malcolm:

So, how does your avatar glorify God?


If anyone can identify the source of my avatar, I'll respond with dancing bananas and mug-clinking smilies....

[Ishmael]

[i]02-22-2003 @ 10:53 PM
Since I am using it on myself, then it is a perfectly accurate use of the symbol and its meaning, and perfectly accurately ties in with the Biblical use of the word "lose" in Mark 8:35.


It's not accurate according the definitions I have presented on the symbols meaning in popular culture against the meaning of the same word in the Greek text. You are in error whether you apply the symbol to yourself or another person. Deal with the facts or just concede you have redefined the image and be done with it.

<snip nonsense related to my "attacking">


That was a question. Accompanied by some Scripture. If you call that legalistic, then I can probably also assume that you find Jesus, Peter, Paul, and pretty much anyone who asks questions or quotes Scripture to be similarly legalistic.

Bull. That was implying that using the quote from a rock star does not glorify God and that he should be using the Bible. Your point was received with the contempt it deserved.

[Blake Reas]

02-22-2003 @ 10:16 PM
malcolm:



Fair point.

Of course, Jesus saved us from death. But I don't recall him ever wandering around Judea dressed as the grim reaper.

Then again, as a Christian, I've been saved from Satan's power. Maybe I should use a picture of Satan as my avatar? :doh: '

Hey lets Christianize everything, Christian Music, Christian T-shirts, Christan Frozen foods, Christan Scooters, Christian Cars, Christian Bubble gum, Christian Candy, Christian clothing, New Nike Air Jesus's Christian, Christian, Christian, Christian, Christian! Secular things are EVIL, I do not like your Sacred Secular False Dichotomy! Hey, DeeDee used to have Satan as here Avatar, sorry a little Shedevil that was on TOL though.

Sorry but just because something does not have something marked 100% Christian on it doesn't mean the person is not Glorifying God!

If you can think of anything else to Christianize just holler at me. I also have Jesus spray painted all over my car! I only where t-shirts that say Jesus on them, I never wear Gap or anything like that because they are "Secular" GIVE ME A BREAK!!!!

Can we say Legalism with a Captial L!!!

In Christ (not the secular type:brow: )
Blake

Soli Deo Gloria! (All to the Glory of God, even little Grim Reaper Avatars!)

Every thing to the Glory of God even my little Bruce Lee Avatar! Oh wait he believed in Chi!:nc:

[Socrates]

I can't believe that anyone would whinge about our avatars, with the classic guilt-manipulating ploy "Does it glorify God?" Some things are morally neutral, and are fine if done in faith. That's what our liberty in Christ means -- see Romans 14, and Titus 1:15: "To the pure all things are pure".

[Captain Ochre]

02-22-2003 @ 10:03 PM
malcolm:



So what legitimate and God-glorifying reason would a Christian have for using Dr. Evil as their avatar, other than identifying with and imitating the world? :huh:


More directly, in what sense is using a Dr. Evil avatar sinful? Unless you'd contend that imitating the world might include things like wearing suits and ties, socks that match, and underarm deodorant?


It is true that using a picture of Dr. Evil as an avatar does not necessarily imply the imitation of Dr. Evil's behaviour. That would be rather incredible. However, I'm not sure you're really seeing the point here.


Maybe not, but I spent a fair amount of time delineating my point of view, which invites you to respond with clarification of your pov. You appear to have responded, so let's see if I get it this time.


Choosing to use a picture of Dr. Evil as an avatar is choosing to use a &quot;worldly&quot; image, which is associated with a &quot;worldly&quot; movie, rather than choosing to use an image which is clearly associated with God and godliness. Why would a Christian do such a thing?


The image of Dr. Evil is a sinful image? How so? Because he superficially resembles Telly Savalas? (:wink:)
The movie "Austin Powers" is a sinful movie? How so (I do need help on that one, since I've only caught bits & pieces on cable tv)?


3 John 1:11 Dear friend, do not imitate what is evil but what is good.

So I'm assuming your saying that the &quot;world&quot; isn't really evil then, right?


I thought that I was clear on that. I gave an interpretation of "the world" as a pattern of sin and rebellion against God, in contradistinction to physical resemblance to supposedly "evil" people or things.
Do you suppose that the passage you quote from 3 John was intended to discourage believers from wearing shoes made by the same shoemaker as, say, Judas Iscariot wore (yes my example is absurd, yet hopefully you'll catch the point)?


So Christ gave us the freedom to be holy in some aspects of our lives and unholy in others? Really? Do you have a Scripture reference for this?


No, but I can recognize a straw man when I see one.

<good-bye, expansion of straw man>


Your opinion on the matter is as worthless as mine. We can justify pretty much anything by human wisdom and reasoning, and we can even use Scriptures to do it and make it sound nice and plausible. But the only &quot;opinion&quot; that counts is God's.


That's nice. Did you use human wisdom and reasoning to come to that conclusion, or did God make you his mouthpiece irrespective of your will in the matter? I simply mean to point out that we can only discuss the issue according to our own respective understandings, barring revelation, and even the revelation we'd have to interpret according to reason (such as: does it align with God's Word, for instance).


Of course, God is holy and worthy of ALL glory. Jesus Christ died for us, to save us from our sin. I'm sure, in the light of all that, He totally understands you wanting to use a picture from a television show as your avatar. :doh:


I'm sure that He does, just as He understands you wearing shoes made in Communist China, just like the drug dealers do (for example).


Ah, right. I'm going to dig a large pit in my local park. Why? Well, just because I happen to like digging and I personally find large holes in the ground very interesting. After all, there's nothing sinful about a hole in the ground, right! It's all part of God's creation! Of course, if someone falls into that pit and breaks their ankle then I'll be happy to help them out (if I become aware of it) and take them to the nearest hospital. And then I'll fill in the hole for a while - just until they recover and learn to watch where they're going. Then I'll go out and dig another one.


Good example--however you're sharpening my point. I can point out areas in your plan where you're probably going to run afoul of both local law and set yourself up for lawsuit (not that the lawsuit would necessarily be justified!). What law does a Captain Ochre image break, and who is likely to sue me for damages? Same goes for Dr. Evil. Scripture tells us to obey our civil laws (as they fail to interfere with Godly directives).


Of course, some people might suggest that I shouldn't be going around digging pits in the first place and that I should do something better with my time but, hey, they're just legalists who don't understand my freedom in Christ and don't appreciate the value of a nice big hole in the ground.

If you can dig your hole in the ground in just 150x the time it took me and "Dr. Evil" to upload our avatars combined, and you did it legally on your own property with sufficient personal protection from liability, then I say more power to you; and you'd really have to use your imagination to find out where you had sinned.
You could use that particular period of introspection more wisely, imo.

Now you get a positive example of the benefits of a Dr. Evil avatar. The person with that avatar gets a personal message from an unbeliever who liked the AP films, and this allows a cultural connection between the two that fosters additional communication including a sharing of the gospel.
Conversely, that same unbeliever might see a Bible Hero avatar, and perceive a subculture to which he is a foreigner. No communication, and the gospel message doesn't register.

Unless you can reasonably tell me how the Dr. Evil image is sinful, it looks like a potential benefit to crossing an important bridge of communication.
Maybe your Junior Army Corps of Engineers project could be a valuable witness to your neighbors. They're going to wonder what you're up to. You can tell them you're digging a hole because you enjoy it. They'll see the joy (in Christ!) that you bring to your voluntary chore--maybe your spouse can feed them tea & biscuits while they observe your labor--maybe they'll be inpired to help you, thus strengthening your relationship and adding depth to your Christian witness (oops! no pun intended!).

[Captain Ochre]

Wow! This thread sure exploded with activity!
I call upon Malcolm to press the purpose of the thread toward the biblical support for the particular importance of avatars.
The games of whose avatar is best and whose avatars supposedly glorify God and which do not will not edify the body so much as looking more deeply at the application of Biblical wisdom that Malcolm is asking us to buy into.
IMO, he hasn't done a good job of justifying his apparent belief that being "like the world" includes physical resemblances and 'sinful by association'-type things--but I am eager for him to have that opportunity--or to develop his exegetical point in whatever direction he wishes.

Oh, and I guarantee that I could argue each of our avatars from the pro or con side and make just as reasonable (or close) a case either way.

Cheers, and a reminder thirdhand from Francis Schaeffer that the way the Bible tells us that unbelievers may tell that we are Christians is by our love one for another.

[Pate]

My avatar clearly does glorify God, because it features my cat, who is one of the cutest creatures in the whole universe. Just look at the amount of beauty that we can find in God's Creation! :smile:

[Sozo]

02-23-2003 @ 03:18 AM
Captain Ochre:

IMO, he hasn't done a good job of justifying his apparent belief that being "like the world" includes physical resemblances and 'sinful by association'-type things--but I am eager for him to have that opportunity--or to develop his exegetical point in whatever direction he wishes.


I wonder if Malcolm owns a pair of Levis or a TV?

[malcolm]

My question and the Scriptures I posted in my original post still stand. I had hoped that people would react to it by searching their own hearts and seeking God on the issue, not by a) making fun of it, or b) getting defensive and flinging accusations around.

Continuing this "discussion" is obviously pointless. I have already provided many Scriptures in almost every post I have made on this thread and, even if I were to provide 10x more and an in-depth exegesis of each one, it wouldn't make the slightest bit of difference to those who's hearts are already hardened on this issue.

Mark 6:52 for they had not understood about the loaves; their hearts were hardened.

As I've said all along, this is not some legalistic matter of superficialities. This is a matter of the heart.

[Sozo]

02-23-2003 @ 01:31 PM
malcolm:
Mark 6:52 for they had not understood about the loaves; their hearts were hardened.

As I've said all along, this is not some legalistic matter of superficialities. This is a matter of the heart.

And you have revealed your heart to us, and we find it not remotely similar to the heart of Jesus. But, thank you for trying.

"loaves" :huh: ... I thought this was about Avatars :hrm:

[Rubia Warren]

I still don't see how ANY dinky little picture can glorify God in the way you are making it out to be. Even Pilgrim's. No offense to him, just using an example, but malcolm, you keep talking about the heart, but how do you know that when he chose that avatar, he wasn't actually doing it for acceptance of other men? How do you know that God is in someone's mind or in their motivation based on a teeny tiny little picture? This sound like a bunch of religious crap to me. Someone who uses military guns as a picture, or Paul McCartney could be way more of a christian than someone who uses a picture of Jesus, or some religious symbol. You have no idea why people pick these so called avatars that "glorify God". I don't see either way how it could glorify God, as you say.
(no offense, Pilgrim- I wasn't talking about you, personally, but he picked out your avatar as one that glorifies God, so I went with it).
As for me, I am not offended by your thread. But to be honest, I went looking for an avatar that would suitably glorify God. To be honest, I couldn't find one that truly does that. I picked this one, and it's kinda pretty, but I wonder if I'm a nature- worshipper now. This butterfly doesn't even glorify God. No teeny tiny picture can. Yours doesn't even. How do I know what you had in your heart when you picked it? You could just be some religious jerk- or even an atheist for all I know. Who cares about these stupid avatars?

[Rubia Warren]

And as for God, I don't see how he would be impressed either way. Do you think he's impressed any more with a religious avatar than some big guns? Sorry, babe. I doubt that God is that easily impressed with a measely avatar. The only ones to be impressed or not impressed are PEOPLE.

[Ishmael]

02-23-2003 @ 01:31 PM
malcolm:
My question and the Scriptures I posted in my original post still stand. I had hoped that people would react to it by searching their own hearts and seeking God on the issue, not by a) making fun of it, or b) getting defensive and flinging accusations around.


I did. Thanks. But why won't you deal with the clear data I presented which proves that your avatar cannot glorify God unless you redefine it's meaning?


Continuing this &quot;discussion&quot; is obviously pointless. I have already provided many Scriptures in almost every post I have made on this thread and, even if I were to provide 10x more and an in-depth exegesis of each one, it wouldn't make the slightest bit of difference to those who's hearts are already hardened on this issue.


You tend to only want to judge others without the slightest regard for knowing the truth about your own avatar. Again:
...why won't you deal with the clear data I presented which proves that your avatar cannot glorify God unless you redefine it's meaning?


Mark 6:52 for they had not understood about the loaves; their hearts were hardened.


Using scripture as a weapon is what the Pharisees liked to do.

Matthew 7:2
For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
...why won't you deal with the clear data I presented which proves that your avatar cannot glorify God unless you redefine it's meaning?


As I've said all along, this is not some legalistic matter of superficialities. This is a matter of the heart.

Then deal with the "matter of the heart" which is contrary to "glorifying God" in your avatar. It's very simple to answer to the clear data I presented which proves that your avatar cannot glorify God unless you redefine it's meaning?

[Captain Ochre]

02-23-2003 @ 07:31 PM
malcolm:

My question and the Scriptures I posted in my original post still stand.


So do the birdbaths that Frank installed in his backyard. Malcolm, you're employing the same technique that many skeptics attempt: Present scriptures in support of a given position (usually an "obvious contradiction" in their case), then maintain that the argument is supported despite the fact that you haven't justified your interpretation of the scriptures.
I gave an interpretation of the scriptures that you used in support of your position. The interpretation that I gave was in harmony with the context of the respective passages. You offered no rebuttal, so far as I'm aware. Is this because you concede? Because you lack confidence in your ability to explain the passages cogently according to context? Because you are divinely led to the proper interpretation (regardless of the context)?
I have invited you to dialogue on the key issue. It looks like you're backing away from that invitation. That's too bad, imo. You pass up the opportunity to have your position taken more seriously, and give others the impression that you might be afraid to consider a possibility apart from the point you originally favored.


I had hoped that people would react to it by searching their own hearts and seeking God on the issue, not by a) making fun of it, or b) getting defensive and flinging accusations around.


How would you characterize my replies to you? When you start with the expectation that people search their own hearts and seek God on the issue, this seems to imply either 1) you consider yourself the last word on the topic (in the form of a prophet) or 2) you are leaving us the option of seeking God on the issue by examining the scriptures to see if we ought to bring greater attention to the issue of the avatars we choose.
I think that I chose option number two. Am I wrong, and if so, why?


Continuing this &quot;discussion&quot; is obviously pointless. I have already provided many Scriptures in almost every post I have made on this thread and, even if I were to provide 10x more and an in-depth exegesis of each one, it wouldn't make the slightest bit of difference to those who's hearts are already hardened on this issue.


Agreed--but how do you know that nobody reading this has an unhardened heart? Was that a revelation given to you by the Lord (I'm serious)? See again above: Am I not seeking God by going to the scriptures that you used as proof-texts?
If I interpret them wrongly, where did I go wrong?
Will Malcolm remain silent?

How does Malcolm's silence glorify God? :wink:


Mark 6:52 for they had not understood about the loaves; their hearts were hardened.


Are you trying to prove to me that your favored method of Bible interpretation is eisegetical?


As I've said all along, this is not some legalistic matter of superficialities. This is a matter of the heart.

It would be matter of the heart if you were doing a good job of interpreting your proof texts. You've been (gently) challenged on that, and now you appear to be backing down and simultaneously maintaining that you are correct in your usage (without providing rationale).

[Sozo]

Malcolm...

In honor of your disgust for those who don't glorify God, I have changed my signature line to the appropriate scripture!

:deal:

[Ishmael]

Good one Sozo!

His Holiness Malcolm is sure not to be surprised to find that he is mentioned in the Apostle's writing.

[Ric]

You decide. :angel:

[Wonder Woman]

Man, this thread made me chop off Wonder Woman's body in my avatar.....

:bawl:

[graceinme]

What do you think? Does mine glorify anything?

[Captain Ochre]

02-24-2003 @ 03:10 AM
Wonder Woman:

Man, this thread made me chop off Wonder Woman's body in my avatar.....

:bawl:

Crop it some more--that red star on her headband promotes communism.:bonk:

[Captain Ochre]

02-24-2003 @ 03:25 AM
graceinme:

What do you think? Does mine glorify anything?

Sure. Yours is based on the Bible, quite plainly. Revelation Ch. 3.

16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spew thee out of my mouth.

[graceinme]

02-23-2003 @ 07:39 PM
Captain Ochre:



Sure. Yours is based on the Bible, quite plainly. Revelation Ch. 3.

16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spew thee out of my mouth.

Oh cool, I was worried there for a minute I was walking on the far left.

[Wonder Woman]

Graceinme....

ROFL! You have no idea how hilarious that is, particularly with the words 'delicate flower' underneath!

:rofl:

[Wonder Woman]

Crop it some more--that red star on her headband promotes communism

Aww man. I'm only gonna be left with a nose at this rate....

I smell a rat!

[graceinme]

02-23-2003 @ 07:48 PM
Wonder Woman:

Graceinme....

ROFL! You have no idea how hilarious that is, particularly with the words 'delicate flower' underneath!

:rofl:

Wonder Woman!!!!! My friend, I have been off for a while. How have you been? Thanks, I was having a mood when I picked this one. But it really is unique. I am going to keep it for a while.:rofl:

[Wonder Woman]

I'm theologically confused, but apart from that, all good!

:help:

[Pilgrim]

02-22-2003 @ 09:10 PM
malcolm:



What about them?

James 1:27 Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world.

And you can ask vague questions about orphans and widows all you want, but what about the last part of that verse?

Hmmm, and continuing to post on the internet keeps you unpolluted from the world and helping the orphan and the widow how?

[Piebald]

Does my avatar glorify God?

You know, I have no idea.

:help:

[Captain Ochre]

02-26-2003 @ 02:01 AM
Hamster:

Does my avatar glorify God?

You know, I have no idea.

:help:

Well, yes and no.
Your avatar on the one hand underscores Paul's admonition to run the race, striving to do your best for the glory of God.

On the other hand, the color green is associated with envy, which is evil; or it probably means that you're a ecological freak who loves the world (trees are part of the world, you know).

In summary, Malcolm's avatar remains the holiest & best.
All others are second place or below. :wink:

[Piebald]

It's green because...erm...

Psalm 92:14
They will still bear fruit in old age, they will stay fresh and green,

[Gavin]

lol!

[Reba]

7 entries found for avatar.
av·a·tar ( P ) Pronunciation Key (v-tär)
n.
The incarnation of a Hindu deity, especially Vishnu, in human or animal form.
An embodiment, as of a quality or concept; an archetype: the very avatar of cunning.
A temporary manifestation or aspect of a continuing entity: occultism in its present avatar.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[Sanskrit avatra, descent (of a deity from heaven), avatar : ava, down + tarati, he crosses; see ter-2 in Indo-European Roots.]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Source: The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition
Copyright © 2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company.
Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.
[Buy it]


avatar

avatar was Word of the Day on July 23, 2001.


Source: Dictionary.com Word of the Day


avatar

\Av`a*tar"\, n. [Skr. avat[^a]ra descent; ava from + root t[.r] to cross, pass over.] 1. (Hindoo Myth.) The descent of a deity to earth, and his incarnation as a man or an animal; -- chiefly associated with the incarnations of Vishnu.

2. Incarnation; manifestation as an object of worship or admiration.


Source: Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary, © 1996, 1998 MICRA, Inc.


avatar

n 1: ny new embodiment of a familiar idea; "the incarnation of evil"; "the very avatar of cunning" [syn: embodiment, incarnation] 2: the manifestation of a Hindu deity (especially Vishnu) in human or superhuman or animal form; "the Buddha is considered an avatar of the god Vishnu"


Source: WordNet ® 1.6, © 1997 Princeton University


avatar



1. <chat, virtual reality> An image representing a user in a
multi-user virtual reality (or VR-like, in the case of
Palace) space.

2. (CMU, Tektronix) root, superuser. There are quite a
few Unix computers on which the name of the superuser
account is "avatar" rather than "root". This quirk was
originated by a CMU hacker who disliked the term
"superuser", and was propagated through an ex-CMU hacker at
Tektronix.

[Jargon File]

(1997-09-14)



Source: The Free On-line Dictionary of Computing, © 1993-2001 Denis Howe


avatar

n. Syn. [in Hindu mythology, the incarnation of a god]
1. Among people working on virtual reality and cyberspace
interfaces, an "avatar" is an icon or representation of a user in a
shared virtual reality. The term is sometimes used on MUDs. 2.
[CMU, Tektronix] root, superuser. There are quite a few Unix
machines on which the name of the superuser account is `avatar'
rather than `root'. This quirk was originated by a CMU hacker who
found the terms `root' and `superuser' unimaginative, and thought
`avatar' might better impress people with the responsibility they
were accepting.



Source: Jargon File 4.2.0


avatar

avatar: in CancerWEB's On-line Medical Dictionary

[Cynic Sage]

In summary, Malcolm's avatar remains the holiest & best.
All others are second place or below. :wink:

Has anybody pointed out yet that Malcom's Avatar is consists simply of TWeb's symbol for Atheism?

[malcolm]

Has anybody pointed out yet that Malcom's Avatar is consists simply of TWeb's symbol for Atheism?

No, but you have now.

[Furor]

My avatar is consistent with a program of Godliness, yes.

Also, this thread was hilarious. 5/5

[malcolm]

Has anybody pointed out yet that Malcom's Avatar is consists simply of TWeb's symbol for Atheism?

I wasn't aware of what Tweb's symbol for Atheism was when I chose my avatar. I have now removed it.

[dizzle]

Wow, that is ironic. And even more so I think I had this same one when this thread first started and haven't used it since (because I like Xena better) but have this one in honour of the upcoming debate on hell.

[Cynic Sage]

Wow, that is ironic. And even more so I think I had this same one when this thread first started and haven't used it since (because I like Xena better) but have this one in honour of the upcoming debate on hell.

Be honest, DeeDee. You chose your current avatar simply to PO Malcolm. :hehe:

[Secretary of the Navy Sparko]

:irony: