I'm Steamed About Animal Rescue Organizations That Don't Rescue!

[JardinPrayer]

Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!

So, some of you know about the old MinPin that showed up at my door 2 and a half weeks ago. I love him, I've named him LittleBuddy, and he is attached to me at the hip. We planned to keep him from the start since it was clear he'd been abandoned. I went on Craigslist to post a FOUND ad and happened upon - of all things - the local chapter of the MinPin rescue organization. I wrote the local volunteer just to ask if she had any advice about how to find the original owners over and above what I'd already done. That's all I wanted to know. She wrote back with this:


First of all do you know ANYTHING about the breed as they are VERY complicated and due to them being a barrel chested dog surgeries can run you in the thousands if not more as well as the fact that he is old and all the blood work for testing will run around $350. YOU MUST get him registered per state law and he's going to need all of his vaccinations even if he's had them but you don't have a record. They are a GREAT and playful breed but you need to know what you are getting into. Also VERY important if he's as old as you think he's going to need a heart worm test usually between $75-$150 and then heart worm medication EVERY month. This is very important with the summer months and an elder dog.

Know if you are ready for this congratulations! If not COMPLETELY understandable and you can email me and we will meet up for a surrender that you will get a copy of that is forwarded to the director of the association and the state.

Please let me know ASAP.

Okaaaaayyyyyy....
Then I asked her what happens to the doggie if I surrender him. Her response:

You will sign over rights to IMPS and we will make sure his medical needs are taken care of and that he is healthy enough for adoption. Once all test and obedience testing is done he will stay in the same foster home until a family decides that he is the perfect dog for them. We select the families by background checks house visit before and after speaking with their vet prior to adoption and after. Their adoption fee is to reimburse all medical expenses and a small donation depending on age to help the non profit run. All of our dogs that are adoptable go up on our website and we promote throughout pet-finders as well. If a family is not found they live out their life with the foster family. For comfort you can look at our website. If you decide to give him up PLEASE don't be ashamed you need to do what is right for you and for the pup f you do surrender I will keep you updated if you like. Please keep me informed of your situation.

So I discussed it with Craig and we decided it was actually better for the dog if we surrendered him to someone who was apparently better equipped to give him the specialized care she felt so strongly he needed and place him in a hope that knows his breed. I informed her of the decision and she said this:
I am contacting my director to get the process started. You may hear from one of them first so please keep your eye open on the email. They are VERY fast at getting these little guys placed somehow.
I was then informed that I had to keep the dog for 10 days in case someone claimed him. That would have taken us to yesterday...Tuesday. She asked me to take him to the vet to find out if he had a microchip (which I'd already done) and to have his teeth checked to determine his age, because:
We ask for age because if he is over 8 it's very hard to adopt them out but we have fosters that take ONLY elders. I am one that can not take elders since I'm military and we move. I can foster him until the other foster is available for a senior.
After that, the volunteer dropped out of sight for several days and didn't respond to several emails. Nevertheless, i felt confident that she would be standing by chomping at the bit on Tuesday to take the dog. So, over the weekend, we make an impetuous decision to but the Lab puppy. Now, granted, ending up with both dogs was something we had already considered and were willing to accept, but please read on.
When the volunteer finally surfaced after several prods, she said this yesterday:
I sent the mass email out to the group with a copy of ALL our emails so it's just going to take a little time to find the right foster I promise we will do everything we can. If you can be patient (I know its hard because you become attached) but you ARE on the top of my list whether I email you or not.

Just enjoy him while you can and know I AM working on it! PROMISE!
Okay...I guess I misunderstood about there being foster homes waiting in the wings for senior MinPins...and about her statement that she could personally foster him until a senior dog foster became available. It seemed very clear to me, but, hey, waiting a few days didn't seem like a big problem to me. (That my air conditioning is not working in June in Florida and that I've never raised a puppy before, let alone a large breed puppy, and LittleBuddy is extremely jealous of Benjamin and doesn't want to be isolated in another room while I work with the newbie is all irrelevant...though it could be contributing to my general mood.)
Today, I get this from her director (I guess), since it seems to me the volunteer doesn't have what it takes to face me and tell me she's a weasel:
I feel so badly for the little guy, but at this point, Min Pin Rescue cannot take him in. We are very full with foster dogs right now, people are leaving their dogs everywhere because of foreclosures, etc., and we just have no room at this time. He is also what we call "un-placeable" because of his age, and a foster home would keep him until he dies, which puts yet another strain on our limited volunteer base.
Allie has sent me the notes you have sent her and the little guy seems SO attached to you. Are you sure you can't keep him?
It would be so nice if you could give this little guy the love he so deserves at this stage of his life. If you take him to a shelter, he will be euthanized (again, because of his age).

I really hope you can see it thru with this little man. He sounds like such a sweetie and so deserving of a good home for his final days.

That's edited down to isolate the relevant comments.

This is not the first time I have dealt with breed rescue organizations that were, it seems, populated by people who talk out of both sides of their mouths.

I'm gonna do what I can for LittleBuddy, but we're now in the unfortunate position of needing to take both dogs to the vet at the same time. If we hadn't felt sure the MinPin was taken care of, we might have held off on getting the pup until things had settled down so we could spread out the expenses.

Okay, end of rant.

[Trout]

:no: city folk

[Nicholas]

I'm sorry to hear about the stress, Jardin. I'm sure you've probably looked into it, but you might want to see if your library has any books on the breed that might give you more information.

How is the puppy getting along with him, by the way?

[Crow]

Jardin,

I know a little about mini-pins. I've never owned one, but several people in my family have.

First of all, whoever wrote you the first letter, to recycle her shouting style, is FULL OF EXCREMENT. Minipins usually aren't all that much trouble as they get older. Sure, disasters can happen with any breed. But it's the huge dogs that usually run into the expensive end of the vet bills as they get older and their bodies wear out. Smaller dogs generally live longer with fewer painful orthopedic problems.

States don't require you to register dogs either. I don't know where she pulled that one out from, oh wait, yes I do. You're going to have to buy a dog license if you keep him. Big deal.

Most places require rabies shots. You can often get those cheaper at a clinic--many humane societies run them. Ask around at the local pet shops--often they run them as well, and cheap. They often run them for other immunizations, or here's an eyeopener-- you can buy them by mail and give them yourself. If you want to know how to do this PM me and I'll fill you in. Same thing for wormers, except heartwormers, more on that in a minute.

Now, there are a couple of ways you can look at keeping a dog. You can act as if you do everything right you can keep that dog alive forever and ever. Put it on dialysis if it's kidneys fail. Get major abdominal surgery for a 12 year old dog if it gets cancer. Gosh, why not get it a lung transplant? The sky's the limit.

I kinda think that what a dog needs most at that stage of life is not major medical mayhem. What he needs is a good bed. A warm place to sleep. Good food and clean water. Someone who will fool with him and make him happy.

He'll need the vaccinations and dewormed occasionally. You can do most of that yourself. As old as he is, you can get him treated if he has heartworms, but it will make his life hell and possibly kill him painfully. I wouldn't worrry about it. If he's a very old dog and full of heartworms but not suffering, I'd let him live with it. It would be worth your while to be aggressive with the young dog, but your old guy doesn't have a long life ahead of him with our without heartworms. He might have a few good years with or without them.

Many people will disagree with this, but here's what I would do. Give him a happy home. Don't do anything drastic with him medically. And when it's evident that he's suffering, get him painlessly euthanized. An old dog's life is about love and comfort. That's the best you can give them. They don't really want all of the other stuff. You can do it if you really want to, but you're mostly doing that for you if you choose to and not for the dog. I'd just enjoy him while you have him.

As for that first contact you made, well, the world is full of twits. Some of them have some truly nutty ideas about dogs--who in their right mind would put a geriatric dog through chest surgery in the first place?

Maybe it's just me, but I think that some folks have utterly no common sense about animals. They try to project human values onto them. A dog that is loved and comfortable is in dog heaven.

[Nicholas]

Jardin,

I know a little about mini-pins. I've never owned one, but several people in my family have.

First of all, whoever wrote you the first letter, to recycle her shouting style, is FULL OF EXCREMENT. Minipins usually aren't all that much trouble as they get older. Sure, disasters can happen with any breed. But it's the huge dogs that usually run into the expensive end of the vet bills as they get older and their bodies wear out. Smaller dogs generally live longer with fewer painful orthopedic problems.

States don't require you to register dogs either. I don't know where she pulled that one out from, oh wait, yes I do. You're going to have to buy a dog license if you keep him. Big deal.

Most places require rabies shots. You can often get those cheaper at a clinic--many humane societies run them. Ask around at the local pet shops--often they run them as well, and cheap. They often run them for other immunizations, or here's an eyeopener-- you can buy them by mail and give them yourself. If you want to know how to do this PM me and I'll fill you in. Same thing for wormers, except heartwormers, more on that in a minute.

Now, there are a couple of ways you can look at keeping a dog. You can act as if you do everything right you can keep that dog alive forever and ever. Put it on dialysis if it's kidneys fail. Get major abdominal surgery for a 12 year old dog if it gets cancer. Gosh, why not get it a lung transplant? The sky's the limit.

I kinda think that what a dog needs most at that stage of life is not major medical mayhem. What he needs is a good bed. A warm place to sleep. Good food and clean water. Someone who will fool with him and make him happy.

He'll need the vaccinations and dewormed occasionally. You can do most of that yourself. As old as he is, you can get him treated if he has heartworms, but it will make his life hell and possibly kill him painfully. I wouldn't worrry about it. If he's a very old dog and full of heartworms but not suffering, I'd let him live with it. It would be worth your while to be aggressive with the young dog, but your old guy doesn't have a long life ahead of him with our without heartworms. He might have a few good years with or without them.

Many people will disagree with this, but here's what I would do. Give him a happy home. Don't do anything drastic with him medically. And when it's evident that he's suffering, get him painlessly euthanized. An old dog's life is about love and comfort. That's the best you can give them. They don't really want all of the other stuff. You can do it if you really want to, but you're mostly doing that for you if you choose to and not for the dog. I'd just enjoy him while you have him.

As for that first contact you made, well, the world is full of twits. Some of them have some truly nutty ideas about dogs--who in their right mind would put a geriatric dog through chest surgery in the first place?

Maybe it's just me, but I think that some folks have utterly no common sense about animals. They try to project human values onto them. A dog that is loved and comfortable is in dog heaven.

Very true, Crow. We've had dogs that have lived to be 16 or so, and a cat that lived to be around 20. They live long because they were in a loving home, with people who took care of them. Sure, we've had a couple of our dogs through surgery, one had to have a couple of surgeries to remove benign tumors in his chest that was causing it to against the inside of his legs when he walked, the other when our older female had to have c-sections for her two litters, and have her and her daughter fixed.
Dogs can have medical problems, I posted about the problems that one of our older dogs is going through. I think that what matters most for a dog is the quality of life. A dog can have alot of medical problems and still live a happy live. We had a dog for several years that was paralyzed, but he lived a good life.

[JardinPrayer]

Thanks so much, Crow. Craig and I read this together and were greatly comforted by your words. We are still struggling with whether or not we really can manage 2 dogs, just from a household mayhem situation, but I don't see an alternative I like at this point.

LittleBuddy is vomiting this evening. Just a little mucousy stuff and some weird breathing associated with it. He stuck very close to me for reassurance the two times he went through this. I am of the opinion this is an emotional response to all the routine upset and attention given to the puppy. He really does not like it when I praise the puppy and doesn't want to be isolated in another room while I work with the pup, either. He's clearly never had to share his domain with another dog and growls/snarls when Benj tries to play with him. I think he's just upset.

I may PM you, Crow with more questions...I also have my sister nearby, who has worked for vets for 20 years and now works for a breeder of English Bulldogs. Craig is pushing back hard on bringing him to the vet for a general "whazzup." I guess that's not totally necessary, though he does have a mass over his right eye that sometimes oozes and occasionally bleeds if he walks into something. I'm putting artificial tears (for dogs) in it and he likes that.

I'm exhausted. More tomorrow.

[Crow]

Jardin, here's what I would do in your situation.

I'd have the little dog at the vet for a look over. I'd be upfront with him about your goals. If you goal is to keep the dog happy and comfortable without doing anything drastic, tell him. That thingie over his eye sounds like it might be a thorn that is infected, if so that can be easily removed and the dog set right. If it's cancer, do you really want to put him through surgery if that's all the vet can do? I wouldn't. My dog has skin cancer--lumpy painless tumors--for 2 years before he died, not of cancer, but of old age. They weren't where they bothered him or interfered with his movement. They didn't cause him pain. I let him live with it.

For the vomiting, dogs are like us. They can also vomit from stress (new pup) or just be sick on their stomach for a few days. It will likely pass on it's own, same as with us.

Once your vet understands that the goal is the comfort and quality of life for the dog and that you're committed to not putting the dog through drastic treatments, they can usually help you deal with the small stuff and they'll tell you when it's time to stop. A great vet I knew told me that the worst problems he encountered were not people who didn't want to care for their pet's health, but the people who didn't know when it was time to let them go.

[JardinPrayer]

Thanks again, Crow. Have I ever told you that I think you rock? I've respected and appreciated you from the first post I ever saw.

Here's the email I received this morning from the director, in response to my :huh: email to her:

______ is a brand new volunteer. She has a lot to learn yet about the workings of rescue. I think she probably got a bit overzealous and when she found out how old the dog was, she also found out that we just have no place to put him. As I mentioned to you in my last e-mail,we do try to take dogs in, if we can, that are older. We do have foster homes that take in only older dogs. However, lately, it seems, we have been slammed with a lot of older dogs and we only have so many spaces for them. When one dies, we can take in another, but sometimes that can be years. In this instance, your little guy could live for another 3-5 years, as these dogs can be 19-20. That is a long time to have a dog in foster care and it ties up the foster home for that long. I don't mean to sound callous about this, but it is a fact of life in rescue and in business. I could place 30-50 dogs in the 3 to 5 years I might have a 13 yr old. The statistics can sometimes be overwhelming, but, in truth, that is why all of our foster homes can't take in old dogs. Most foster homes only take one foster at a time. And, most do not want a permanent addition to their families.

As I tried to state in my letter to you, I don't believe the medical expenses for him will be that huge. I do think you need to get the abscess (from what you said about it) looked at and treated, but again, no dental, no shots.

If you can at least keep him for a bit longer, we may have a place open up. It could be a week or two or up to a month but we can put him on the "next in" list. It is just going to depend on other situations.

I also spoke with my sister last night before falling down, utterly exhausted. The decision is that we will not take LittleBuddy to the vet, but sis will keep a close eye on him and we will provide the bed, food, and water you recommended. Craig will not approve spending any significant money on him...to include a vet checkup. When I take the pup in tomorrow for shots, I will try to sneak in a few questions. We won't license him in light of this email, in the hopes he still has a chance of being placed. We both agree that "two dogs is too much" for our lifestyle and our household (certainly the cats agree!), but there is just no way I'm giving him him to Animal Control, so that's where we have settled.

Sis is of the opinion that the mass over his eye is a cyst and has given me artificial tears for dogs to soothe it if it oozes (which is not every day). I have another ointment that is medicated if it shows signs of infection, but it really looks like it has been there a long time and is not festering or anything.

I guess I didn't mention the fleas, either. Benjamin came home with them since he was whelped in a barn with a kajillion other animals and lots of dense foliage on the property. It has astounded me how quickly I saw fleas on all of the other pets...some of whom have only come nose-to-nose with Benj. All have been treated with Frontline or (for the cats) Revolution and I'm waiting to see the scratching stop. I've got a few flea bites on my hands, but nowhere else. Did I tell you my air conditioning is broken? Well, at least that gets fixed today.

I'm TIRED!

[JardinPrayer]

Okay, now I'm feeling like I'm caught in some kind of weird carnival ride. The first volunteer emailed me while I was typing the last post and said she received emails from 2...that's TWO people who are willing to take Little Buddy "if all else fails." She's saying I should hear from them any minute now.

:huh:

[Crow]

Heat and fleas is a wicked combination.

If you want an "ecologically sound" trick to get rid of fleas, (my motivation is stinginess, but in case you want to cite a nobler cause) plug a nightlight into the wall and set a pan of soapy water in front of it and turn out all of the other lights at night, and close the curtains. The trick is to make it so that the nightlight (or a lamp if you have one that you're sure won't tip into the water--I use a weighted gooseneck--might not be a good idea with all of your animals, but a nightlight works almost as well) The fleas will jump for the light, they will fall in the pan, the soap breaks the surface tension of the water, and they will drown, and you won't believe how many you can catch.

[semmie]

Heat and fleas is a wicked combination.

If you want an "ecologically sound" trick to get rid of fleas, (my motivation is stinginess, but in case you want to cite a nobler cause) plug a nightlight into the wall and set a pan of soapy water in front of it and turn out all of the other lights at night, and close the curtains. The trick is to make it so that the nightlight (or a lamp if you have one that you're sure won't tip into the water--I use a weighted gooseneck--might not be a good idea with all of your animals, but a nightlight works almost as well) The fleas will jump for the light, they will fall in the pan, the soap breaks the surface tension of the water, and they will drown, and you won't believe how many you can catch.

wow.

that's disgusting.

that's brilliant.

:thumb:

[JardinPrayer]

I'm supposed to hear from one of the two rescue fosters that claim they're going to take LittleBuddy today. That would be great. Because, I woke up 20 minutes before the alarm to him snorting at me that he needed to go out, then I had to get the puppy confined to the laundry room to feed him...after taking HIM out. On the way, I had to take the clump of cat hair out of the pup's mouth because he chased Brian around the dining room table. I took a moment to reinforce "Sit" with the pup before putting the food down (which has supplements added). Then I had to convince the cats it was safe to come out and have breakfast while LittleBuddy hopped around between my feet. Then I had to get his breakfast, which he knows as "dinner." Then, pup was finished eating and had to go out right away to reinforce "potty outside," which he has been excellent at in only three days!). Then I had to towel off the wet, fresh grass clippings, which Benj loves. Then I had to take LittleBuddy across the street for his morning walk and give him the treat he expects. Then, I had to take up the food dishes and wash them for lunch time later. Then I swept all the grass clippings and washed my flip flops and feet. THEN....I got my first cup of coffee! :jade: Thank goodness my husband did not need me to make lunch for him today!

But...the air conditioning is fixed! :yipee:

[Ice Angel]

Jardin.....

:hug:


*hands Jardin some iced tea*

[JardinPrayer]

Hey...do you think Trout was talking about me when he said, ":no: city people?" It's my first puppy...

[historic salve]

Are you sure you're looking at a minpin and not a miniature pinscher? According to Wikipedia, at least:

Far too many people own what is referred to as "MinPins". This term is actually used by breeders to denote the smaller than standard sized Miniature Pinschers that do not comply with the normal attributes and characteristics of the breed therefore they are prone to viewing the actions of their dogs with the assumption that the actions define the true Miniature Pinscher when in fact it only defines a few.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miniature_Pinscher

[Crow]

That critter Jardin was holding in the pic she showed looked to be within breed standards, about 10-12" at the shoulder. Nice ear crop--that dog didn't come cheap. Most breeders I know call them minipins, and the ones who try to sell the undersized freaks for more money call them "teacups."

[Sparko]

I agree with everything Crow said. My last dog was a min schnauzer who I raised from a pup. He lived to be 14. the last year he got cancer and I did everything to extend his life while keeping him comfortible, and that got expensive but that was a very unusual expense.

Heartworm pills are standard for any dog you have, your pup included, and you can get them from the vet or online at a place like Petmeds.com. I use Intercepter, which also treats various other worms too. its a once a month pill. I think it runs about $25 for a 6 month supply.

Other expenses are shots, yearly, around $50 or so, and flea medication, like frontline. If you read the package on frontline you will notice that it will kill ticks for 30 days, but it kills fleas for 60 days. So if you don't have ticks, then you only need to use it every two months.

Other than that, the only other expense is food. Old dogs might need to be taken to the vet more often, but as long as he doens't have some chronic desease, like diabetes, or whatever there should not be any extraordinary expense.

I gave my old dog baby aspirin for arthritis, and fed him over the counter Glucosamine. (Dont give a dog Ibuprofen, it can kill him, I am not sure about Tylenol but I would ask a vet first. my vet did tell me baby aspirin was ok)

I took him in once or twice a year to get his teeth cleaned. That can cost a bit. around $100. You should also brush your dog's teeth as often as you can (weekly or so) with a dog toothpaste. keeping their teeth healthy will do wonders for a lot of other health problems. Bad teeth can lead to systemic infections and cause a whole host of problems including heart problems.

Oh and heartworm testing is not bad either. around $20 at my vet.

[Crow]

In my experience also, old dogs aren't exceptionally expensive to keep.

I cleaned my own dog's teeth with a dental scaler. Most people who show dogs do this. It's not difficult to learn. My old foxhound died with every one of his teeth except for one, which he lost in a fight with a coyote. (Mickey won)

Heartworm testing and prevention isn't very expensive, treating established heartworms is and I wouldn't put a very old dog through it. That's a judgement call for the owner. I'm just saying that the cure can be as bad or worse than the disease.

I kept the fleas off of my dog with 5% Sevin powder. Less than 5 bucks a year. Works great on dogs, don't try it on cats. Like Sparko said, you can buy the other stuff through the mail cheaply. I got good results with Sevin. Once or twice I had the dog come up positive for tapeworms, that ran about 30 bucks each time. I routinely dewormed him for roundworms and hooks every 4 months. These don't always show in the stool, so I did it on G.P.

I gave my dog aspirin too as he got older. I used one adult tablet, as he was a huge dog. The dose would be considerably less for a minature. He had mild chronic problems related to his back because he had broken it a few years earlier, but I decided early on to treat the symptoms and not to try to surgically fix it. If I recall correctly, the prednisone he needed when the symptoms became troublesome ran me less than 25 bucks a year.

I gave my own immunizations except for rabies. 10 bucks at a local clinic every 3 years was what the rabies vaccine cost me. The dog saw the vet once a year unless there was a new problem, which was rare. About 50 bucks each time.

In their own way, old dogs can be even more satisfying than young ones. It's fun to rough house with a pup, but there's a lot to be said for the dog that lies quietly beside you, aware of your every move, watching you, happy to just be near.

[Sparko]

amen to that. My old dog was great. he knew me like a book. he would follow me around and knew what I was going to do before I did. And not having him jumping around barking at every thing in sight was a nice touch too.

And it was even great when he started going deaf. He used to be afraid of loud noises, especially thunder, but as he got deafer he didnt get scared any more. And it didnt seem to bother him being deaf either. He knew me so well that not hearing me didnt make a bit of difference, he knew what I wanted and went mostly by hand gestures and body language.

[JardinPrayer]

It's fascinating to have both the old dog and the pup at the same time...both new to me. I'm still of the impression someone at the rescue organization is going to find LittleBuddy a foster home one of these days. If not...well, we're settling in to a routine here. Buddy hates it when I leave the house without him...he barks and whines (sometimes howls) and, while I'm out, overturns every trash can he can find (which is only ones that hold paper, so it's okay). He's gotten used to the puppy and even seems to enjoy his company in the yard during potty walks...as long as Benj doesn't nip. If he does, boy does he get told a thing or two. I let them work it out on their own with a little reinforcement.

Buddy is clearly jealous and often positions himself between me and Benj just on principle. He is upset that he gets fed twice a day while the interloper gets fed three times. He will steal dental sticks right out of the pup's mouth if he can. But, as long as I give him a lot of reassurance the I still love him, he seems okay.

I'm not going to try to clean his teeth...he seems upset whenever I try to touch his mouth. His teeth are just awful, but the rescue folk are recommending I not try to get him a formal dental at this stage (I wouldn't anyhow). Looks to me like his previous owner never did a thing for his teeth. I asked the vet today if all the unknowns about this old dog were any threat to the pup. She said, "I guess we'll find out, but if he's not manifesting any signs of illness, you're probably safe." She basically said that if this dog was previously owned, then it was presumably immunized and at this age has a well-developed immune system. So, the risk is low, in her opinion.

I'll brag about Benjamin's first visit to the vet in the other thread tomorrow.

[NSMinistries]

We used to go to the tractor supply store and get all the dog supplies we need. It is cheaper than mail order and sometimes it is for horses and other big animals but the folks there will tell ya how to cut and dilute just about anything to be used for other animals. The only shot we have to get at vet is the rabies. All the other shots can be done in the 7 in one kinds. We have in the past found other people there who were looking for the same supplies and we just split them down the middle and everyone was happy. Of course we were treating about 10 dogs with all the stuff. Glad we are down to one now. Once she goes (bless her heart) she was a very abused dog when we got her, I plan on getting a service dog. because of my eyes.

[lao tzu]

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THEN....I got my first cup of coffee!

THAT would never happen in my house.

[JardinPrayer]

Yeah...I used to say that. But, I got tired of cleaning up "accidents" before coffee.

[Littlejoe9763]

Yeah...I used to say that. But, I got tired of cleaning up "accidents" before coffee.
That's why my wife has been adamant that we have our back yard fence put up BEFORE we get a dog. Man it sure is taking along time to get a dog! :hehe:

LJ

[JardinPrayer]

Yes, the fence helps, but I'm still not letting the pup out there without a leash yet because it helps with training. I'm also tracking where he leaves his droppings so I can police them up right away...that stuff is not fun to mow over.