Satori Mystery Solved

[Ishmael]

http://satori.com/philospy.htm

All of his hidden messages to us "non-enlightentened types" can now be understood in light of this revelation! :yipee:

[Ryokan]

If you really want to understand Zen, you should read Allan Watt's The Way of Zen. It deals with Zen within its cultural context, and is fairly clearly written.

[Ryokan]

If you want to understand Satori, try Buddhism:Plain and Simple, or Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Matienence.

[Ryokan]

In addition, even if you don't like anything about Zen, it has produced some excellent poetry, like some from my name sake, Ryokan.

[Ishmael]

Not really busting on Zen, just on our "Satori." He seems to contradict his name in his posts.

My opinion, of course...

[Ryokan]

I would tend to agree. Although I am far from a buddhist, I think a few of their ideas have helped me live a more relaxed life. And I love Haiku.

[dizzle]

Ah Haiku... should I start the Redneck Haiku thread again??

[flipper]

I am a Buddhist, albeit not always a very good one. But I put my time in on the mat without expectation and it seems to do me good.

Satori, the individual, comes across as too enmeshed in the world to mean his name in the Buddhist sense. I suspect that he means satori in the sense of enlightenment through atheism. They're really not the same thing.

[flipper]

should I start the Redneck Haiku thread again??

Oh go on then.

[Gracchus]

The enlightened one does not study enlightenment. You can be a buddha or a buddhist, but not both.

[flipper]

Sez you.
*ting*

[Gracchus]

Sez who? :bonk:

[Jason Clark]

What's a Satori puzzle?

[Ryokan]

a clever exemplification of the , denial although thats to active a wors, of self, Gracchus, but that have anything to do with the price of beer. Probably

[Ishmael]

Come back to us Satori! Your wisdom is needed once again!!!

[dizzle]

Well it appears that Satori got his begged-for thrashing and left. He is still actively posting here:

http://www.ultimatemetal.com/forum/index.php?s=

[Ishmael]

What sort of a forum is that? :hrm:

[dizzle]

It is like a Gothic thing. If you told me last year I was going to join a Goth forum, I would have laughed you out of town... but yes, Dee Dee Warren is a registered member of Ultimate Metal. Rock on. Satori is a very prolific poster over there.

[flipper]

Sez who?

I have no idea.

[Satori]

02-21-2003 @ 07:54 PM
Calvinist:

Not really busting on Zen, just on our "Satori." He seems to contradict his name in his posts.

My opinion, of course...

I disagree with your opinion, but I admire your enthusiasm to try to understand me or Zen in the intellectually limited framework of Christianity, as if such an endevour is actually possible. Don't give up, keep reading and reseaching, you may be surprised by what you find.

Satori

[Satori]

02-22-2003 @ 02:25 AM
flipper:

I am a Buddhist, albeit not always a very good one. But I put my time in on the mat without expectation and it seems to do me good.

There is no need for you to try to find your deepest nature, it's entirely apparent at all times and cannot be evaded.

Satori, the individual, comes across as too enmeshed in the world to mean his name in the Buddhist sense.

Too enmeshed in the world? I AM in the world, I am part of this world, and I could not be more enmeshed in it if I tried.

Btw, I DO mean it in the Buddhist sense, of course. Walking the line between a personal and universal self is the whole point, and realizing that the 2 are one in the same expression of the same reality.

I suspect that he means satori in the sense of enlightenment through atheism. They're really not the same thing.

Not quite, but I appreciate your opinions nonetheless.

Satori

[Satori]

If you guys really want to "understand" me, you can start by trying to understand yourselves, something which I feel is impossible since your self-view does not come from within you but is instead imposed on you with lofty promises and intimidation in the form of external/egocentric rhetoric.

Satori

[Ishmael]

Today @ 11:05 AM
Satori:



I disagree with your opinion, but I admire your enthusiasm to try to understand me or Zen in the intellectually limited framework of Christianity, as if such an endevour is actually possible. Don't give up, keep reading and reseaching, you may be surprised by what you find.

Satori


LOL... you are truly a sick man Satori. I hope not nearly as unhealthy as the couple I just saw, though.

[Satori]

03-08-2003 @ 03:31 PM
Dee Dee Warren:

Well it appears that Satori got his begged-for thrashing and left. He is still actively posting here:

http://www.ultimatemetal.com/forum/index.php?s=

I left because this forum went down for a few days and I was a little uninterested. However, as you can see, I am back, so take your best shots and consult your bible, hhehehe ;)

Satori

[Satori]

Today @ 05:21 PM
Calvinist:

LOL... you are truly a sick man Satori.

I'm truly a "sick man"? What basis to you have for this hypothesis? Does your definition of a "sick man" include someone who is at peace with himself and the universe and who feels an undying love and compassion for all living things and the health of this planet? Evidently, it does, so "sick" I am, and I hope that one day you will be "sick" too, that is, if your beloved "god" would allow such intellectual liberties and a sense of morality/ethics which surpasses its own.

Satori

[Pilgrim]

If you were truely at peace with ther est of the univewrse then you would not spend all of your time trying to change the beings which you state are intimately wrapped up and part of the universe on an ontological level. You would simply let the exist as they are.

[Satori]

Today @ 09:50 PM
Pilgrim:
If you were truely at peace with ther est of the univewrse then you would not spend all of your time trying to change the beings which you state are intimately wrapped up and part of the universe on an ontological level. You would simply let the exist as they are.

2 things:

- I'm not spending *all* of my time trying to help/change others, only my free time when I feel up to it (free time which I'm being PAID well for by looking busy, I should add). Sure beats surfing. I just type really fast and this stuff just flows out of me unobstructed.

- I do allow the universe to exist as it is, however, does that mean I should stand by and allow social injustices to happen without lifting a finger to do something about it? No, and I sincerely hope you do not either. I feel you all have been victimized by a massive injustice, that of christianity, which plays upon your fears and selfish desires in order to root itself in your minds. I think that's simpy horrible, and I speak from experience as a former christian trapped and obligated into that egocentric mindset of metaphysical supplication. Christanity isn't the only religion which does this, many do, and I find them all equally repugnant and unjustifiable. I think people deserve better than that, so by holdin such discussions with you guys I'm merely trying to right what I deem to be a horrible tradition of wrongness. Look at it this way: you perhaps think Muslims leaders are either misguided or are perverting the memory of Jesus for their own selfish ends. Well, that's exactly how I feel about those who would impose christianity onto you.

Please understand, I'm just doing what I honestly feel in my heart of hearts is the right thing. Do I know that I have the potential to hurt people and make their faith struggle even harder? Of course, but I feel it's necessary in helping. I feel if I can just reach one more person and play a tiny part in liberating them from this archaic and intellectually damaging guilt-ridden fear-mongering dogma then my good deed is done. Besides, the vast majority of you here will completely disregard what I say, like good little supplicant christians, as your vengeful god expects of you. For most of you, faith in this rhetoric is far far far more important than anything I would say, so I know it's not hurting anyone TOO much (and if it does hurt anyone then I sincerely apologize, but hurting others by revealing the baselessness of their faith is not my intention). I'm just looking for those few people who do not feel at peace with themselves and the universe, those who cling to these types of religions out of fear/desire/tradition, those who know deep in their minds that it's a pile of half-baked, unsubstantiated, self-contradictory, and ethically repugnant nonsense but who are terrified of the consequences of NOT believing it. For these few people, if you are out there (and they are everywhere it seems) I'm offering the chance of being liberated from it, I know how to do it because I liberated myself from it, though it wasn't easy and it took years, but it was well worth it, I assure you. It IS possible, I'm living proof that anyone can potentially overcome the brainwashing they received in their childhood. All you need is the will, the courage, and the intelligence to see through the pile of simple-minded mythological rhetoric that was (in almost all cases) imposed on you before you were old enough to think for yourself. And of course, confronting your base fears (ie. "hell", heheh) helps too.

Best wishes,

Satori

[Pilgrim]

I feel you all have been victimized by a massive injustice, that of christianity, which plays upon your fears and selfish desires in order to root itself in your minds.

That's your problem then, you should allow room for what you know, not only what you feel. And you obviously are misunderstanding Christianity. Well, maybe that's too broad a stroke. You are confusing the cup for the contents it holds. And you are assuming that there is a one size fits all definition of Christianity. And you are confusing your own experience within Chrisitianity with fact about all of Christianity. You are allowing personal anecdote to determine your entire view of Christian faith.

[dizzle]

Today @ 04:50 PM
Pilgrim:

If you were truely at peace with ther est of the univewrse then you would not spend all of your time trying to change the beings which you state are intimately wrapped up and part of the universe on an ontological level. You would simply let the exist as they are.

WTG Pilgrim :thumb:

[dizzle]

We can all breathe a sigh of relief. Satori has rode into town to save us all!

[Ryokan]

so you already are a bodisattva, Satori?

[Pate]

Yesterday @ 09:31 PM
Satori:

Does your definition of a "sick man" include someone who is at peace with himself and the universe

I thought that the universe is unwilling to even start the peace negotiations. :eek:

[Ryokan]

:rofl:

[Satori]

Today @ 01:49 AM
Pilgrim:

That's your problem then,

You are first presuming I have a "problem"... ?

you should allow room for what you know, not only what you feel.

Are you suggesting that I do not? You would be incorrect in that suggestion.

And you obviously are misunderstanding Christianity.

I think otherwise. Christianity is not that hard to understand, 8 year olds can understand it, it's not intellectually elusive in the slightest, it's actually very simple-minded (which is why it is so very applicable to the masses, that was the whole intent after all, imho).

Well, maybe that's too broad a stroke. You are confusing the cup for the contents it holds.

I disagree. If you think I have a misunderstanding of the principles and means of christianity then you are free to explore that, and I invite you to do just that, if you are so inclined and interested of course.

And you are assuming that there is a one size fits all definition of Christianity.

That's not my definition, it's one born of christianity, it attempts to paint everyone with the same brush, and I find that to be simply absurd. Not everyone is the same, so they cannot be expected to all believe in the same metaphysical theories and follow the same rules. Religions attempting to paint everyone with one brush is one of the reasons why no single religion has yet dominated the entire world, and probably never will. Everyone is different, everyone has different opinions and ideas, and I think that religion (and "god") should have the intelligence and flexibility to account for this reality. In other words, not everyone is able to blindly swallow whatever dogma is fasionable in their society, so expecting them to is simply ridiculous and insulting.

And you are confusing your own experience within Chrisitianity with fact about all of Christianity.

I'm fully aware that there are many different sub-sects under the christian umbrella, which is precisely why I try to touch on those topics are most applicable to most people. Jehovahs for example don't believe that god is a vengeful and sadistic entity which sees fit to horribly torture people for the terrible sin of simply being who they are, but since Jehovahs are rare in these types of forums I'll continue to rag on how sick, repugnant, and ethically deficient this concept is.

You are allowing personal anecdote to determine your entire view of Christian faith.

Yes, my personal experiences, as well as the experiences of many people I've come to know over the years.

I fully realize that it means different things to different people, and some people are perhaps better off with such dogmas imposed on them, dictating their thoughts and actions, but I don't feel that that's what is best for everyone, and in a deeper sense, I don't feel it's what's best for humanity on the whole. As history has shown us, fear/ignorance/superstition and unshakable devotion to a single viewpoint often lead us on paths which are harmful, 911 being just the most recent example of this.

I think that anything which pulls one's mind away from reason (like religion) is potentially damaging. Now is not the time to be chasing after our selfish desires and running away from our petty fears and allowing these actions to dictate how we live our lives. Humans are now at a point in our intellectual evolution where we have come to control and affect all the ecosystems on the entire planet. If we are to overcome our own eventual over-population and guaranteed demise then we must start thinking rationally and taking responsibility for ourselves instead of being directed by and subserviant to the wishes of various mythological entities, all of whom can't seem to agree with one another, something which only adds to the social conflict and egocentric selfishness/mistrust for each other which we can quite frankly do without. Now is the time to be reasonable, and we are going in the direction of course, religion is going the way of the dinosaurs or evolving to be more in tune with modern civilization, something I am extremely greatful for, but I'm just trying to help this process along, speed it up, because I feel it's in the best interests of everyone and the planet on the whole. Besides, on a personal level, I think everyone at least deserves the chance to be liberated from such mind-trappings and live their lives with complete freedom to think and be whoever and whatever they are with any external shame, fear, or guilt imposed on them for it.

I think you deserve better than you have been given, and I think we can all do much better than we have thus far.

best wishes,

Satori

[Satori]

Today @ 02:46 PM
Ryokan:

so you already are a bodisattva, Satori?

Unlike most people here perhaps, I don't pin myself with labels as I find they are far too limiting.

thanks for your question,

Satori

[Satori]

Today @ 06:42 PM
Pate:
I thought that the universe is unwilling to even start the peace negotiations. :eek:

Perhaps you can see how such thoughts are merely creations of the intellect? :)

[Satori]

Today @ 06:49 PM
Ryokan:

:rofl:

Brilliant! ;)

[Ben Franklin]

02-22-2003 @ 02:25 AM post located here (http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=21778#post21778)
flipper:

I am a Buddhist, albeit not always a very good one. But I put my time in on the mat without expectation and it seems to do me good.

I found that Taoism has a good angle on getting in tune with the universe, too. You must learn to forget your own self-awareness, then you can become more aware of the universe around you.

In fact, you, Satori, fail to realize that "social injustice" only exists because men's desires' exist. True virtue requires no action at all: it flows from the universe, and not from man's rules or society.

As Kung Tzu (Confucius) realized, etiquette is only necessary because people have lost virtue... Christianity, Buddhism, etc. are all poor substitutions for the true virtue or "Tao" of the universe.