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View Full Version : PCUSA loses another big one



RBerman
03-06-2014, 03:47 PM
4,000 member church pays $2,000 per member for amicable separation from the PCUSA:

http://www.ministrymatters.com/all/article/entry/4808/4000-member-church-votes-to-leave-pcusa

KingsGambit
03-06-2014, 05:27 PM
I know a pastor in Pennsylvania whose church is currently looking for a way out as well.

Raphael
03-06-2014, 06:04 PM
I know that RTT's Church is in the process of leaving.

Cerealman
03-06-2014, 06:05 PM
I read up on it a little but why exactly are people leaving PCUSA?

Raphael
03-06-2014, 06:10 PM
I read up on it a little but why exactly are people leaving PCUSA?

Doctrinal differences as I understand it. the PCUSA as a whole is embracing very much more liberal ideologies and theologies that don't sit well with the more conservative branches of it.

KingsGambit
03-06-2014, 07:19 PM
My general impression from afar has been that the biggest issue of all is the ordination of clergy involved in same-sex relationships.

RBerman
03-06-2014, 07:23 PM
My general impression from afar has been that the biggest issue of all is the ordination of clergy involved in same-sex relationships.

Interestingly, in the article, the church currently in question cites "Our presbytery passed a resolution supporting divestment from Israel" as one of their noteworthy grievances.

Paprika
03-06-2014, 07:50 PM
4,000 member church pays $2,000 per member for amicable separation from the PCUSA:

http://www.ministrymatters.com/all/article/entry/4808/4000-member-church-votes-to-leave-pcusa
Why such a big sum of money?

Raphael
03-06-2014, 08:00 PM
Why such a big sum of money?

$8 million......most of that I'm guessing will be the building and assets.

KingsGambit
03-06-2014, 08:10 PM
I'm not totally unsympathetic to divestment campaigns in general (in college, I was involved in some activism to get the university to divest from Sudan), but Israel hardly seems to be the most deserving offender out there. Speculating what the true agenda is there would be improper on my part.

RBerman
03-07-2014, 07:49 AM
Why such a big sum of money?

The rule in that demonination is that even though the church's facilities are paid for with money from the local church, nevertheless ownership of the facilities is held by the denomination, so that if the church leaves the denomination, it must leave its facilities behind. In practice, that's been problematical to enforce. The denomination really doesn't want a huge, empty building, potentially with a huge loan payment attached to it. What it really wants is (1) control over the member churches, and failing that, (2) money for its other ventures. But what it gets is (1) bad blood when people feel forced to stay for reasons other than Christian fellowship, and (2) bad press when denominational ownership of local church assets is asserted on dubious moral and legal grounds.

Thoughtful Monk
03-08-2014, 02:49 PM
My general impression from afar has been that the biggest issue of all is the ordination of clergy involved in same-sex relationships.

As a former PCUSAer, the issue you site is just the most recent of a long string of issues that repeatedly split the church. Suggest some research as the history (starting in the 60's according to my parents with Angela Davis) is much to long for a posting here.

My take: the central office got more and more liberal and shoved positions down on the local churches which they couldn't take.

Kbertsche
03-08-2014, 03:27 PM
4,000 member church pays $2,000 per member for amicable separation from the PCUSA:

http://www.ministrymatters.com/all/article/entry/4808/4000-member-church-votes-to-leave-pcusa

Great! This is an answer to prayer. MPPC has been trying to leave the PCUSA for a while now. I understand that they thought they had an agreement a few months ago, but the presbytery balked and raised the price tag.

P.S. this is probably one of the wealthiest congregations in the US, and is sitting on some very expensive real estate.

RBerman
03-08-2014, 06:42 PM
Great! This is an answer to prayer. MPPC has been trying to leave the PCUSA for a while now. I understand that they thought they had an agreement a few months ago, but the presbytery balked and raised the price tag. P.S. this is probably one of the wealthiest congregations in the US, and is sitting on some very expensive real estate.

Too bad Michael J. Fox couldn't have shown up in a Delorean back in the early 1970s, when there was a window of opportunity to leave the denomination without such payments. He could have talked to them about today