What about Moses law?

[Maxell]

Howdy.
How you understand these verses? Many Judaistics take these verses and say, that law will be in force to the end, until heaven and earth passway. They try to teach, that Paul understand wrongly, that law have already passed away. They even say, that we should teach all the law, which is God will, eternally. Even most little of 613 commands to be keep and teach to keep our right standing before Lord.

Matt 5:17-19
Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach [them], the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

They say, that this least in kingdom, means outside of kingdom in semitic thoughts.

Matt 7:21
Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Matt 7:24-27
Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:
And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.
And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:
And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.

They also use these verses:

Matt 23:2-3
Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat:
All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, [that] observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.

Matt 23:23
Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier [matters] of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

Matt 28:20
Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, [even] unto the end of the world. Amen.

[Maxell]

Also:

Act 21:20
And when they heard [it], they glorified the Lord, and said unto him, Thou seest, brother, how many thousands of Jews there are which believe; and they are all zealous of the law:


Matt 19:17-19
And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? [there is] none good but one, [that is], God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
Honour thy father and [thy] mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Did Jesus lie to that man? If no one can enter kingdom of heaven, just keeping commandments? Why Jesus didn't just said to him:"Believe me, that's all fellow"

[Sozo]

Until the cross, Jesus was both under the Law, and used the Law for it's purpose... to expose the condition of man as sinners, so that they would accept the only provision and solution - CHRIST!

[Carl Smuda]

Yes, I'm going with Sozo. There are other sciptures and other Gospels. Three more. In the Matthew section our Lord Jesus said till all be fulfilled. I cannot speak sufficient on filfillment. But the Law was given for the transgression until the seed should come, that seed being Christ Jesus the Lord. (Galatians 3). Our focus as followers of the Lord Jesus Christ is on the Lord who died and was raised. The first revelation from Christ TO His church was given to us through Paul. Our starting point is Christ. The Apostle wrote that we are dead to the law so we can be married to Christ. (Romans 7). The Law was the paranthesis between God's original design and the beginning of restoration, which is the resurrection. In the Gospel of Luke is a beautiful account of the disciples electrifying and terrifying encounter with the resurrected Christ. Lord Jesus Christ took them to the place to show them that what He spoke to them before His passion and resurrection that was written about Him in Moses, and the Law, and the Writings was to be fulfilled and they were to preach repentance and remission of sins through His name, NOT the Law. I believe that the revelation of Jesus Christ recorded in the Church Epistles show us our new created state through the promised holy Spirit from the Lord's Christ. The relationship between Christians and the Law begins with our death to the Law with Christ and rising from the dead with Christ to our translation into the kingdom. And as they thus spake, Jesus himself stood in the midst of them, and saith unto them, Peace [be] unto you. But they were terrified and affrighted, and supposed that they had seen a spirit. And he said unto them, Why are ye troubled? and why do thoughts arise in your hearts? Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have. And when he had thus spoken, he shewed them [his] hands and [his] feet. And while they yet believed not for joy, and wondered, he said unto them, Have ye here any meat? And they gave him a piece of a broiled fish, and of an honeycomb. And he took [it], and did eat before them. And he said unto them, These [are] the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and [in] the prophets, and [in] the psalms, concerning me. Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures, And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day: And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. (Luke 24:36-47) Our position in the Kingdom is past tense (Colossians 1:13). The event that we look back to is always going to be the new man of resurrection, not the Law.

anyone? next!

[Socrates]

I endorse the view of the Hebrew Christian Dr Arnold Fruchtenbaum The Law of Moses and the Law of Christ (http://www.ariel.org/ff00006f.html).

I wonder when Maxell last sacrificed an animal in the temple as the Mosaic Law requires?

[Carl Smuda]

Socrates,
that was a beautiful excerpt. thank you. It really blessed me and reassured me. Where the author shows that the Word never separates the Law into ceremonial, legal, and moral parts was illuminating. Now that makes me think about the efforts of our Theonomist friends. The work they do to try and show where the continuity is and where the discontinuity is between the older and new covenant.

Yeshua is obviously Jesus but what does "Hamashiach" mean?

respectfully,
Carl

[CT292]

Theonomists have addressed the issue of the traditional tripartite division of the OT law.

James Jordan wrote in his 1978 Essay, Calvinism and the Judicial Law of Moses (http://www.reformed.org/ethics/index.html?mainframe=Jordan_judicial_laws_Moses.html),

"This criticism does, however, raise a difficult point. In the literature of Protestantism, it is assumed that the law of God comes in three categories: moral, judicial, and ceremonial. The criticism rightly shows that this category scheme is erroneous .

"There are laws for the family, for the individual, for ecology, and for many other areas of life. The only "civil laws," properly speaking, are those which have civil penalties attached to them. Thus, even if we were to try to break down the law of God into categories -- and it would be a reductionistic error to attempt it -- we would find far more than the three categories of moral, civil, and ceremonial. We would also find ecological, familial, marital, and other kinds of laws as well.'

Gary North said almost the same thing and proposed a revision to the Westminster Confession's tripartite division into "familial, eclessiastical, and civil".

Colin

[simchat_torah]

Ha = The
Moshiach = messiah

shalom,
Yafet.

[GrayPilgrim]

CT

The problem is the tripartite division of the law is purely a superimposition of a later schema onto the Law. The text itself bears absolutely now witness to this division. You have the "three types" spoken of in the same passages. Moses goes between the different types without a breath and co-mingles them to such an extent that the division is unhelpful I prefer to use the Language the Law uses. THere are those Laws that make something holy, and those things which maintain or restore soemthings cleanliness. Remember the Law was God's method of maintaining the purity of the camp (later the Land) holy and clean so that he could dwell with His People Israel.

GP