McCain, Obama, and Biden - elitists

[Dee Dee Warren]

And yes, I know I appear to be ranting on like a pit bull without lipstick, which brings me to the final nail in the coffin in this sorry election year. As a Democrat I am horrified that Sarah Palin is the one who snagged the deeply profound — and absolutely ignored by professional smart people — emotional real estate of "P.T.A. mother." I too am, in fact, not just "my kids' mom" but their Title I Los Angeles public school P.T.A. secretary. This unheard female howl is, for better or worse, what Ms. Palin has set out to tap into; it is real, and I am sick that we've let the Republicans charge this ground.

Sarah Palin's children went to what looks like a humble little public school: Iditarod Elementary on Wasilla Fishhook Road. The school's score on www.greatschools.net is a 4. That's a lot of street cred, for a gun-totin', snow-mobilin' creationist-lovin' lady.

http://campaignstops.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/09/09/the-rantings-of-a-pta-mom/index.html?ref=opinion&8ty&emc=ty

What are their voting records on letting people choose where to send their kids to school - I mean those people who can't afford the average household income per child.

Once again Palin is not part of the good ole boy (or girl) club

How is it that Obama's rich neighborhood has public school's languishing? Because the elistists despite all their populist talk don't mingle their children with the unwashed. Please note, McCain does the same.

The only one on either ticket that is any kind of true change is Sarah Palin. I don't think the fact that one person has more pigmented skin or that another has different genitals is change. It is the attitude and who really does represent mainstream America - not the coastline radicals.

[small_towns]

Hi. Good point. I like Palin. She's cool and if I was American, she'd be getting my support. If she DOESN'T get in as VP, I think I'll write her a letter, tell her to become a full Canadian citizen, and get her to run for prime minister here. :wink:

[NeilUnreal]

When our next leaders have to make difficult decisions or sit down in front of the leaders of other countries, it does not bode well for our future if we elected them out of a false populism that claims "average" is the measure of competence and authenticity.

I no more want an average leader than I want an average doctor.

I want those who are the best and brightest now, but with roots in true populism so that they understand the concerns of the people.

-Neil

[Dee Dee Warren]

When our next leaders have to make difficult decisions or sit down in front of the leaders of other countries, it does not bode well for our future if we elected them out of a false populism that claims "average" is the measure of competence and authenticity.

I no more want an average leader than I want an average doctor.

I want those who are the best and brightest now, but with roots in true populism so that they understand the concerns of the people.

-Neil

Good thing I didn't say "average" was best. But Palin on more issues than not (she's a politician, I know she's not perfect) is more than average but shows her true ties to real people.

I don't know much about McCain's neighborhood as that article doesn't say as much, but why don't Obama and his neighbors send their kids to the public schools that they say heartily say is good enough for our kids. (I am assuming Obama is against school vouchers - I could be wrong in that assumption).

That author has a great point about Obama's neighborhood, they could revitalize that public school system but it just isn't quite as prestiguous to be sent to the ewww government school than the 20K per head private oasis. No riff-raff allowed.

[NeilUnreal]

I don't know much about McCain's neighborhood as that article doesn't say as much, but why don't Obama and his neighbors send their kids to the public schools that they say heartily say is good enough for our kids. (I am assuming Obama is against school vouchers - I could be wrong in that assumption).

That author has a great point about Obama's neighborhood, they could revitalize that public school system but it just isn't quite as prestiguous to be sent to the ewww government school than the 20K per head private oasis. No riff-raff allowed.

[Edited to delete a long ramble that occurred because I'm baking bread and trying to keep an eye on it...]

The point of all this rant vis-a-vis this thread was: sometimes the best and brightest, and the lucky, will live like elites simply because of the way our society is structured. However, that does not imply elitism. It's just as likely that the converse is the case: someone who lives like a populist may simply appear to be one because they have not yet obtained the resources necessary to live like an elite.

One has to take into account the full circumstances.

Given that, I don't find Obama, Biden, or McCain to be etremely elist. I think their circumstances put them out of touch to varying degrees, as would happen to anyone, but I don't think of them as elitists.

-Neil

[Dee Dee Warren]

I don't disagree with the idea that it's good for the elites to live as populists. I don't really think it's 100% feasible, except for maybe saints.

I don't like the idea of automatically rejecting elites simply because they use their resources to take good care of their familes.

I guess the best way I could describe my opinion is to say that I object to someone saying: "I live better than you and deserve it becuase I am better than you." However, I object less to someone saying: "My circumstances and efforts allow me to afford more."

In my opinion, Obama, Biden, and McCain all fall into this latter category. I'm sure to a certain extent, their modes of life have made them lose touch with the "common people." But I think it's more a question of habit than basic attitude in all three cases.

-Neil

Again I am focusing on Obama as I have more information. If he and his neighbors didn't opt out of the normal population, they would still have the best for their kids. Someone has to start.

[NeilUnreal]

First of all, sorry I cross-posted my edit. The edited version more clearly represents the thought I was working towards in the original. (I tend to work out ideas in writing, and sometimes things get set out into the world a trifle undercooked.)


Again I am focusing on Obama as I have more information. If he and his neighbors didn't opt out of the normal population, they would still have the best for their kids. Someone has to start.

I agree with you here; I'm a populist and I prefer the idea of our leaders opting into the same educational systems available to ordinary citizens. It's something that I would prefer Obama do, yet it's not a deal-breaker for me that he does not in this case (but ditto for all the other other three candidates).

-Neil

[Dee Dee Warren]

You mean other two candidates. Palin sends her kids to public school. McCain and Biden do not. And I suspect their neighborhood demographics are similar to Obama's.

[Pilgrim]

Why exactly is sending your kid to private school bad again? If you're trying to reform a system, but the system is still broken, and you have the ability to participate in something that's not broken you'd be doing your kids a dis-service by NOT sending them to a private school if you had the resources. At least that's the way i see it. And I don't think its terribly elitist to think that way. If anything, it's simply trying to get the best for your kids.

(in the interest of full disclosure I'm a product of a prep school education)

[Dee Dee Warren]

Why exactly is sending your kid to private school bad again? If you're trying to reform a system, but the system is still broken, and you have the ability to participate in something that's not broken you'd be doing your kids a dis-service by NOT sending them to a private school if you had the resources. At least that's the way i see it. And I don't think its terribly elitist to think that way. If anything, it's simply trying to get the best for your kids.

(in the interest of full disclosure I'm a product of a prep school education)

First, I did ask what all three candidate's positions were on school vouchers, as that makes a difference to my opinion. It is bad in this case because these are public schools in wealthy tax districts, yet their performance sucks because the children of people who are highly educated and value education are sent elsewhere, where if they sent their children to those schools, they would effect reform by the very act. Instead they allow them to languish. Yet (if they are against vouchers) want people who don't live in wealthy tax districts to not have any room at all to choose where to send their kids to school.

[Pilgrim]

I'm unclear on how their mere presence would effect reform? I mean, if the teachers suck, the teachers suck. it's the school's job and the teacher's job to teach, not the kid's job to make them look better.

I get your point on if they blocked vouchers though. That would be a very big tension there.

[Dee Dee Warren]

I'm unclear on how their mere presence would effect reform? I mean, if the teachers suck, the teachers suck. it's the school's job and the teacher's job to teach, not the kid's job to make them look better.

I get your point on if they blocked vouchers though. That would be a very big tension there.

I don't know if you read the linked blog in the OP, that author explains how it would affect reform and I tend to agree with her.

[NeilUnreal]

You mean other two candidates. Palin sends her kids to public school.

I simply meant it's way down on the list of critical issues for me either pro or con. i.e. Avoiding public schools is not a deal-breaker, but using public schools is not an automatic deal-maker.

-Neil

[Dee Dee Warren]

Its way down on my list too, I just ran across that blog from a concerned Democrat and I agreed with her, so I thought it interesting to post.

[Giorno Giovanna]

http://campaignstops.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/09/09/the-rantings-of-a-pta-mom/index.html?ref=opinion&8ty&emc=ty

What are their voting records on letting people choose where to send their kids to school - I mean those people who can't afford the average household income per child.

Once again Palin is not part of the good ole boy (or girl) club

How is it that Obama's rich neighborhood has public school's languishing? Because the elistists despite all their populist talk don't mingle their children with the unwashed. Please note, McCain does the same.

The only one on either ticket that is any kind of true change is Sarah Palin. I don't think the fact that one person has more pigmented skin or that another has different genitals is change. It is the attitude and who really does represent mainstream America - not the coastline radicals.

Hold up a sec. You mean to tell me that because Obama or McCain sent their kids to private school simply because they wanted their kids to get top education is an elitist?

So I guess even getting your kids a top education is a bad thing now:ahem:

Next it will be getting a private doctor