Queen
October 14th 2003, 01:48 AM
As requested by Passant, to react to my reply. And of course Falco can reply here as well.......everybody can reply...:wink:
Posted by Falco: 10-09-2003 at 10:32 PM in Naturalism
analyzing morality
Hi
All your post have a similar thread running through them. What i understand from these previous post was that ones morals is a mixture of nature and nurture. It sounds like more nurture. Meaning that as we grow we learn unconciously at first then conciously as we become more aware of abstract concepts. I read these post and see that everyone here and else where on earth states that this or that action is right or wrong/ evil or good.
By stating such claims and eventually creating laws that reflect those morals...sets up a legal system that others with different morals can get trapped in. What I understand is that laws are put into paper and enforced by the majority or whoever has the most power. So is right or wrong depended only on these laws that reflect the majorities morals. If so then the individual or minority is wrong, when they violate these laws. Since claims of right or wrong are truth claims.
I have alot of questions because I am still learning these concepts.
Subject little different here---------
I like to call myself a biologist in training.
By having such morals that animals have rights like humans. Using biology for your life, and not killing even an ant, I wonder how does biology (what humans observe of the natural phenomenon called earth) sit non-contradictory to not killing an ant as an action that illustrates equal rights between humans and an ant (animal). My own experience as a biologist says that certain species eat species to survive (plant and animals). To say other wise is to contradict an order system needing energy to live (observable natural phenomenoms). I am not pulling any personal attacks here, but just trying to understanding these concepts.
Thanks
My Reply: Posted: 10-10-2003 at 01:15 PM
A good Question...
I am a biologist. I don't kill any living creature, I am a vegetarian and so on. So I am quite NUTS according to many people that I call family and friends.
What is my reason for this 'behavior'? First of all I don't believe in the concept of lower and higher animals with human being at the top of creation/evolution, although we are at the top of the food-chain (thanks to technology). To me all life is equal. The ant that walks on the street is not less than the cat lying in your lap. It is human perspective that we don't feel an emotional bond with many animals, especially insects, spiders, reptiles....animals that have low caress-ability. We don't want to compare animal behavior with human emotions, but we react to animals with human emotions. That is why animal testing is accepted on worms and so on. But when they show pictures of little white bunnies, cats, dogs and apes we feel horrible because of it. Yet we buy many products that are tested on animals. Cosmetics, medication and so on.......it is impossible to avoid all these products, especially when you depend on meds like me. I do watch what I use as cosmetic products....they are all "animal tested free".
Jane Goodall said one time that religious people are "less" worried about the environment and the way how animals are treated. God has provide these animals and will make sure the world doesn't collapse because humans treat it so badly. (Read "Reason for Hope). Jane Goodall believes in God, so she isn't an atheist pointing the finger. It is just something she noticed during her many travels and symposium. (I am neither saying that ALL theist are like that and she doesn't mean it as criticism, it is just a matter of observation. She is a very sweet human being and has no evil in her body)
I believe that we are part of nature and when we destroy ecological environments we will one day face the fact that we are making our own extinction reality.
We must treat all life with respect. We must bear in mind that they have feelings like pain and fear. If an animal isn't afraid it won't run or attack.....But I am not only talking about animal life I am talking about all life.......(although some bacteria and viruses are so life threatening, you have to make a choice for your life. If I get sick and it is an bacterial infection I use antibiotics. My cat is protected against fleas. I am not that naive or stupid...... and so on.
I always liked this quote from Mahatma Gandhi:
“ The greatness of a nation can be measured by the way it's animals are treated... ”
We have a long way to go
Lots of love and sunshine,
Queen
Posted by Falco: 10-09-2003 at 10:32 PM in Naturalism
analyzing morality
Hi
All your post have a similar thread running through them. What i understand from these previous post was that ones morals is a mixture of nature and nurture. It sounds like more nurture. Meaning that as we grow we learn unconciously at first then conciously as we become more aware of abstract concepts. I read these post and see that everyone here and else where on earth states that this or that action is right or wrong/ evil or good.
By stating such claims and eventually creating laws that reflect those morals...sets up a legal system that others with different morals can get trapped in. What I understand is that laws are put into paper and enforced by the majority or whoever has the most power. So is right or wrong depended only on these laws that reflect the majorities morals. If so then the individual or minority is wrong, when they violate these laws. Since claims of right or wrong are truth claims.
I have alot of questions because I am still learning these concepts.
Subject little different here---------
I like to call myself a biologist in training.
By having such morals that animals have rights like humans. Using biology for your life, and not killing even an ant, I wonder how does biology (what humans observe of the natural phenomenon called earth) sit non-contradictory to not killing an ant as an action that illustrates equal rights between humans and an ant (animal). My own experience as a biologist says that certain species eat species to survive (plant and animals). To say other wise is to contradict an order system needing energy to live (observable natural phenomenoms). I am not pulling any personal attacks here, but just trying to understanding these concepts.
Thanks
My Reply: Posted: 10-10-2003 at 01:15 PM
A good Question...
I am a biologist. I don't kill any living creature, I am a vegetarian and so on. So I am quite NUTS according to many people that I call family and friends.
What is my reason for this 'behavior'? First of all I don't believe in the concept of lower and higher animals with human being at the top of creation/evolution, although we are at the top of the food-chain (thanks to technology). To me all life is equal. The ant that walks on the street is not less than the cat lying in your lap. It is human perspective that we don't feel an emotional bond with many animals, especially insects, spiders, reptiles....animals that have low caress-ability. We don't want to compare animal behavior with human emotions, but we react to animals with human emotions. That is why animal testing is accepted on worms and so on. But when they show pictures of little white bunnies, cats, dogs and apes we feel horrible because of it. Yet we buy many products that are tested on animals. Cosmetics, medication and so on.......it is impossible to avoid all these products, especially when you depend on meds like me. I do watch what I use as cosmetic products....they are all "animal tested free".
Jane Goodall said one time that religious people are "less" worried about the environment and the way how animals are treated. God has provide these animals and will make sure the world doesn't collapse because humans treat it so badly. (Read "Reason for Hope). Jane Goodall believes in God, so she isn't an atheist pointing the finger. It is just something she noticed during her many travels and symposium. (I am neither saying that ALL theist are like that and she doesn't mean it as criticism, it is just a matter of observation. She is a very sweet human being and has no evil in her body)
I believe that we are part of nature and when we destroy ecological environments we will one day face the fact that we are making our own extinction reality.
We must treat all life with respect. We must bear in mind that they have feelings like pain and fear. If an animal isn't afraid it won't run or attack.....But I am not only talking about animal life I am talking about all life.......(although some bacteria and viruses are so life threatening, you have to make a choice for your life. If I get sick and it is an bacterial infection I use antibiotics. My cat is protected against fleas. I am not that naive or stupid...... and so on.
I always liked this quote from Mahatma Gandhi:
“ The greatness of a nation can be measured by the way it's animals are treated... ”
We have a long way to go
Lots of love and sunshine,
Queen