Catastrophic plate tectonics

[The Pixie]

I recently stumbled upon a paper by Paul Garner, a UK creationist. I wondered if anyone who knows about geology would like to comment on it.

http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/am/v3/n4/upgrade-time

Creationists, on the other hand, know from the data of Scripture that the earth has only been around a few thousand years. Using the Bible’s history as their starting point, these scientists were ready to take the theory of continental movement to the next level. They worked out a theory, called catastrophic plate tectonics. CPT included the best parts of the earlier theories but added speed. Recent studies of granite have shown that silicate rock, under stress, can weaken by a factor of a billion or more. This means that, under the right conditions, the continental plates could move a billion times faster than today. The Flood provided the necessary conditions.

CPT explains many problems that are a puzzle in conventional plate tectonics. For example, how did plates ever have enough energy to drive their way down through the mantle layers, which currently prevent plates from moving any lower? Also, how could cold crust material sink to the earth’s core without melting? The answer is to speed things up in a catastrophic, global Flood!

[Cyrus Johnson]

I recently stumbled upon a paper by Paul Garner, a UK creationist. I wondered if anyone who knows about geology would like to comment on it.

http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/am/v3/n4/upgrade-time

You might start HERE (http://home.entouch.net/dmd/subduction.htm) with this article by Glenn Morton.

[rogue06]

CPT, proposed by John Baumgardner and supported by YEC groups like Institute for Creation Research (ICR) and AnswersinGenesis (AiG) has numerous difficulties.

Foremost is that many aspects of Baumgardner’s theory can’t be explained under conventional physics and requires miracles to work (which he explains in his revealingly titled “The imperative of non-stationary natural law in relation to Noah's Flood,” which was published by Creation Research Society Quarterly in 1990). It is the only way of dealing with the immense frictional heat problems caused by “runaway subduction.” Baumgardner himself estimates that roughly 1028 joules would be released from the process he suggests (which would cause all water on the planet boil off and leave the crust in a largely molten state).

They would also be necessary in order to cool the new ocean floor as well as raise sedimentary mountains in a matter of months rather than in the millions of years it would normally take.

Basically, if miracles are still required to explain your mechanism, it's not a scientific explanation being proposed

There are many other problems with CPT. For instance, it asserts that all of the ocean floors should be essentially the same age, yet radiometric dating as well as the amount of sedimentation signify that the change in age is gradual – from new to many millions of years old. Also, as sea-floor basalt cools, it gets denser and thus sinks, and sea floor elevation is consistent with a cooling consistent with its apparent age (assuming gradual spreading).

Another thing is that Baumgardner’s own models have water currents moving faster over the continents than the ocean basins during the Flood. This would mean sediments would generally be removed from continents and deposited in ocean basins. But this isn’t what we observe. What we see instead is that the sediments on the continents (including the shelves) are an average more than four times thicker than what is found in the ocean basins.

And finally, the standard theories concerning plate tectonics already accounts for the evidence as well as doing a much better job. For example, it explains numerous details that catastrophic plate tectonics simply can’t. As John McPhee demonstrated in his Annals of the Former World from 1980 why there is gold in California, silver in Nevada, salt flats in Utah, and coal in Pennsylvania. It requires no extraordinary mechanisms to do so. Catastrophic plate tectonics would be a giant step backwards in the progress of science.


And I strongly second CJ's suggestion about taking a look at Glenn Morton's (who posts here as grmorton) article

[The Pixie]

Thanks for the replies. Glenn Morton's page was very interesting. For some reason I had not heard of CPT, despite several years of arguing with creationists.

[Cyrus Johnson]

Thanks for the replies. Glenn Morton's page was very interesting. For some reason I had not heard of CPT, despite several years of arguing with creationists.

Glenn appears regularly on these pages and I'm sure he can point you to other resources. As can others who are also geologists.

[MrManNo1]

Baumgardner himself estimates that roughly 1028 joules would be released from the process he suggests (which would cause all water on the planet boil off and leave the crust in a largely molten state).

Are you sure this number is correct, because the specific heat of water is 4.164 J/(kg·ºC). Maybe you mean 1028 J/s?

[Quantic]

Are you sure this number is correct, because the specific heat of water is 4.164 J/(kg·ºC). Maybe you mean 1028 J/s?

The forum may have eaten the OP's notation. I bet the number should read "10 to the 28th power Joules".

[Cyrus Johnson]

The forum may have eaten the OP's notation. I bet the number should read "10 to the 28th power Joules".

As in 1028 J.

[rogue06]

The forum may have eaten the OP's notation. I bet the number should read "10 to the 28th power Joules".

CJ has it right it was supposed to read 1028.

[MrManNo1]

CJ has it right it was supposed to read 1028.

:yes:

[Mike PSS]

There are many other problems with CPT. For instance, it asserts that all of the ocean floors should be essentially the same age, yet radiometric dating as well as the amount of sedimentation signify that the change in age is gradual – from new to many millions of years old. Also, as sea-floor basalt cools, it gets denser and thus sinks, and sea floor elevation is consistent with a cooling consistent with its apparent age (assuming gradual spreading).The change in density of oceanic crust also is reflected in its thickness, and that measurement is verified too.

And the magnetic reversals locked into the rocks (in bands that are reflected exactly on both sides of the ocean ridge).

And the associated structures that ride with the oceanic plates like the Emperor Seamount/Hawaiin Island Chain.

And, and, and......


And finally, the standard theories concerning plate tectonics already accounts for the evidence as well as doing a much better job. For example, it explains numerous details that catastrophic plate tectonics simply can’t. As John McPhee demonstrated in his Annals of the Former World from 1980 why there is gold in California, silver in Nevada, salt flats in Utah, and coal in Pennsylvania. It requires no extraordinary mechanisms to do so. Catastrophic plate tectonics would be a giant step backwards in the progress of science.
That is an excellent book, and John McPhee is a journalist writing it, not a geologist.

I highly reccommend reading it. It's probably in most libraries.