Prayer and answer

[nobody]

My father-in-law is not a Christian (in fact, he is Japanese, and he's "Buddhist"). Recently, he asked me if I thought that Jesus heard me when I pray. I told him I did, and his reply was that the gods don't hear anything. We're all just hoping that maybe they'll hear and help us out.

Then he asked me why I thought Jesus heard me, because when Christians pray for deliverance, they receive it just as randomly as non-Christians. He said that prayer never results in anything; it's all just chance. I didn't know what to say, because I tend to think this is the case. I'm not sure that God needs to answer all our prayers with "yes," but if He doesn't, how are we to know that when He does answer "yes" it's not just a random event?

Since a direct link between prayer and answers to prayer cannot be made, how can we claim that God hears us? I believe He does, but it all boils down to my faith in the scriptures, and not empirical evidence.

[Xmansmommy]

Great topic nobody! I wish I had a great answer :oops: I believe He does based on scripture first of all, and I've also had some experiences that were extremely hard to believe that God didn't play some part in answering my prayers. Sorry I don't have any proof that He does. I too, simply have faith. You won't ever be able to convince anyone of the faith that you have. It would be so much easier if we could. But alas, we cannot.

Blessings in Him,
Linda

[Jillyn'Toast]

I believe God not only hears our prayer but also knows what we are going to pray for before we do it, as Matthew 6:6 & 8 says "When you pray go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you... For your Father knows what you need before you ask him" Luke 11:1-13 gives a good illustration on prayer as well. Luke 11 and Matthew 6 both contain the Lord's Prayer. Hm... I hope those help in some way :)

[nobody]

Thanks Jill,

But I'm looking for evidence outside of the Bible. In other words, how can I say that my God hears me but the Buddhist gods don't hear my father-in-law. There's really no way to prove it, right?

Christians die young just like everyone else. Based on the empirical evidence, it seems that answers to prayer are random, so that one must wonder whether they are actually answers or simply random events. The sun shines on the good and the bad, and the rain falls on the bad and the good.

[Jason Clark]

Well, when I was young I had epilepsy. I was on drugs, Dilantin, for five years or so.
I was prayed for, by my parents, and went off the drugs. I've been drug and fit free for more than ten years now, I even got my diving certificate.
However I hasten to add that I wasn't a bad epileptic, I had a few grand mal seizures but the drugs controlled it and my doctor did suggest I simply grew out of it.

However my grandmother was healed of cancer about twenty years ago. The doctor had before and after x-rays and everything.

[Vorkosigan]

No, there is no way to prove it. Let's suppose something really dramatic happens.....at the Daytona 500, a driver loses control and smacks into the crowd. In front of 200,000 horrified witnesses, a little girl's head is parted clean from her body. Her mother runs out the crowd, and implores Jesus to heal her baby. Suddenly the head floats in the air, re-attaches itself, and the little girl sits up, none the worse for the experience. Who was responsible for this event? Even if you could prove that a miracle occurred, how could you attribute it to any particular deity or belief? Consider just a few of the possibilities.

1) The Christian god healed the kid.
2) Remember, everyone in the audience is praying for the kid. The healing was effected by a Buddhist in the audience.
3) The healing was done by some other Christian, Buddhist, Hindu, etc, watching the event live on TV.
4) My wife's Buddhist group prays daily for the sick to be healed. Their prayer randomly healed the child.
5) The idea of Jesus functioned as a psychic talisman that allowed the crowd to focus its innate but erratic psychic powers. This -- that humans have psychic powers -- is actually the best explanation, since it accounts for reports of such events from every religion.
6) For reasons known only to themselves, super powerful aliens healed the girl with advanced technology. It only looks like a miracle.

There are many possibilities, for example, that a psychic in the crowd made the crowd think the event occurred with his telepathic powers. You see the problem. Once you banish the naturalistic rules, you're in a never-never land where everything is possible.

Pinch and Collins discuss this logical problem -- the inability to do controlled psychic experiments -- in one of their books, Natural Order, I think. In sum, it is simply impossible to determine the cause of a supernatural event. That can only be known by faith.

Vorkosigan

[ACFaith.Com]

03-10-2003 @ 01:19 PM
Vorkosigan:

No, there is no way to prove it. Let's suppose something really dramatic happens.....at the Daytona 500, a driver loses control and smacks into the crowd. In front of 200,000 horrified witnesses, a little girl's head is parted clean from her body. Her mother runs out the crowd, and implores Jesus to heal her baby. Suddenly the head floats in the air, re-attaches itself, and the little girl sits up, none the worse for the experience. Who was responsible for this event? Even if you could prove that a miracle occurred, how could you attribute it to any particular deity or belief? Consider just a few of the possibilities.

1) The Christian god healed the kid.
2) Remember, everyone in the audience is praying for the kid. The healing was effected by a Buddhist in the audience.
3) The healing was done by some other Christian, Buddhist, Hindu, etc, watching the event live on TV.
4) My wife's Buddhist group prays daily for the sick to be healed. Their prayer randomly healed the child.
5) The idea of Jesus functioned as a psychic talisman that allowed the crowd to focus its innate but erratic psychic powers. This -- that humans have psychic powers -- is actually the best explanation, since it accounts for reports of such events from every religion.
6) For reasons known only to themselves, super powerful aliens healed the girl with advanced technology. It only looks like a miracle.

There are many possibilities, for example, that a psychic in the crowd made the crowd think the event occurred with his telepathic powers. You see the problem. Once you banish the naturalistic rules, you're in a never-never land where everything is possible.

Pinch and Collins discuss this logical problem -- the inability to do controlled psychic experiments -- in one of their books, Natural Order, I think. In sum, it is simply impossible to determine the cause of a supernatural event. That can only be known by faith.

Vorkosigan

Adding to that: why would God heal this little girl yet sit by during the Holocaust? Why cure a person of sickness yet sit by when Hurricane Mitch killed 10,000 people a few years ago? That seems to be a very strange God.

I am a Christian who believes in the power and worth of prayer in our personal lives but not petitionary prayer. I think its okay to pray for others because of the placebo effect and also, I think praying for others takes the preoccupation off of ourself. Its spiritually healthy and nourishing to focus on the needs of others and to be aware of the situation of those around you. It helps keep things in perspective. I consider it more of laying my troubles and concerns on God but I don't expect him to come and change the physical world because of them.

Vinnie

[Jason Clark]

I don't expect him to come and change the physical world because of them.

No, and that's why He doesn't.

Some people are successful when they pray for healing, like a friend of mine with lupus, others don't seem to, like my sister with crohns.

I do know that if you don't ask you don't get, so I ask.

[ACFaith.Com]

I do know that if you don't ask you don't get, so I ask.

So if I pray to God to feed starving children he might do it? But if I don't he won't? :huh: :huh: :huh:

Vinnie

[Laughlyn]

03-10-2003 @ 08:11 PM post located here (http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=31569#post31569)
ACFaith.Com:



So if I pray to God to feed starving children he might do it? But if I don't he won't?

Vinnie


Why would God do something
that man should do for himself? :no:

[cbro]

[QUOTE=Vorkosigan]No, there is no way to prove it. Let's suppose something really dramatic happens.....at the Daytona 500, a driver loses control and smacks into the crowd. In front of 200,000 horrified witnesses, a little girl's head is parted clean from her body. Her mother runs out the crowd, and implores Jesus to heal her baby. Suddenly the head floats in the air, re-attaches itself, and the little girl sits up, none the worse for the experience. Who was responsible for this event? Even if you could prove that a miracle occurred, how could you attribute it to any particular deity or belief? Consider just a few of the possibilities.

1) The Christian god healed the kid.
2) Remember, everyone in the audience is praying for the kid. The healing was effected by a Buddhist in the audience.
3) The healing was done by some other Christian, Buddhist, Hindu, etc, watching the event live on TV.
4) My wife's Buddhist group prays daily for the sick to be healed. Their prayer randomly healed the child.
5) The idea of Jesus functioned as a psychic talisman that allowed the crowd to focus its innate but erratic psychic powers. This -- that humans have psychic powers -- is actually the best explanation, since it accounts for reports of such events from every religion.
6) For reasons known only to themselves, super powerful aliens healed the girl with advanced technology. It only looks like a miracle.

There are many possibilities, for example, that a psychic in the crowd made the crowd think the event occurred with his telepathic powers. You see the problem. Once you banish the naturalistic rules, you're in a never-never land where everything is possible.

Pinch and Collins discuss this logical problem -- the inability to do controlled psychic experiments -- in one of their books, Natural Order, I think. In sum, it is simply impossible to determine the cause of a supernatural event. That can only be known by faith.

Vorkosigan[/QUOTE

I agree that it is only by Faith that we know the cause of a supernatural event. However, I believe that Faith must be in Jesus as Lord and Saviour. Which will give us the wisdom to know that there are ONLY two causes of those events, which is either the work of the Holy Spirit or the work of the Unholy Spirit, no matter what it might look like otherwise.

[ajohnson]

I know this isn't answering the question directly but it may help. I think the focus shouldn't be how many prayers are answer by God - but the realness of God.

Look at lives Jesus' changed. Add to that all the good things those changed lives have accomplished! Things like;

Puplic and Higher education, started by Christians as a way to spread the Gospel (an educated mind to better understand God's precepts).

Many medical practices and hospitals started by Christians(as a way to spread the compassion and caring Christ has for us).

The abolishists (sp?), Christians in England (and the US)spreading the freedom for fellow man Christ wants for us.

Many charities were started by Christians because of the changed lives Christ gave to all of us saved sinners.

I could go on and on. But the point is this - let's compare the people converting to any other religion to those that have a genuine conversion to Christianity and ask - Who is a better person in society?

The person so focused on himself and knowing that if they do well in this life they'll come back (reincarnate) in a better life form (buddists)?

or

The person so focused on doing the will of God and acting like Christ and because the love of Christ so fills us we must share it with others. Much like the song "So blessed I can't contain it, so blessed I just have to share it...."

At least this is my answer when people ask me things like why doesn't God answer all prayers.

Regards,

Alan

[Twilly Spree]

This might just be a me thing (and it often is) but things just always work out. Maybe not in the way you originally planned but they do. Things just work themselves out. That's just about enough evidence for me anywho.