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View Full Version : The Law, Part III



Meh Gerbil
10-21-2016, 09:09 AM
19213

Jedidiah
10-21-2016, 09:23 AM
Very important to remember that whatever happens politically, God is still working through His creation. We do have the small view.

Jedidiah
10-21-2016, 09:26 AM
On a separate topic, more related to the earlier discussion, there is a common misuse of the law in my opinion.

We, as Christians, often seem to want to force unbelievers to live the way we see they ought to live. Outlaw homosexuality, adultery, fornication, smoking, and a million other little things. It is as though Christians believe that someone can be saved if we just force them to act right. Not good.

KingsGambit
10-21-2016, 09:29 AM
We, as Christians, often seem to want to force unbelievers to live the way we see they ought to live. Outlaw homosexuality, adultery, fornication, smoking, and a million other little things. It is as though Christians believe that someone can be saved if we just force them to act right. Not good.

It does seem like the gospel flourishes the most in those cultures that are most hostile to it.

Meh Gerbil
10-21-2016, 10:24 AM
On a separate topic, more related to the earlier discussion, there is a common misuse of the law in my opinion.

We, as Christians, often seem to want to force unbelievers to live the way we see they ought to live. Outlaw homosexuality, adultery, fornication, smoking, and a million other little things. It is as though Christians believe that someone can be saved if we just force them to act right. Not good.
Yup.

Meh Gerbil
10-21-2016, 10:28 AM
Very important to remember that whatever happens politically, God is still working through His creation. We do have the small view.
I harbor the suspicion that our politics has absolutely nothing in common with the Kingdom of God.
He doesn't seem to gravitate to people/places/things that people elevate as being important.

It is very possible that God has no interest whatsoever in the outcome of our Presidential election as the real power centers on the planet are those people who've embraced life in the Spirit.

If we were to make a list of the top most influential Americans I bet it wouldn't have a single person in common with God's list.
He likes to use the simple, silly, base things to get the big stuff done.

Darth Executor
10-21-2016, 01:33 PM
It does seem like the gospel flourishes the most in those cultures that are most hostile to it.

This is what insanity sounds like.

Teallaura
10-22-2016, 09:21 AM
On a separate topic, more related to the earlier discussion, there is a common misuse of the law in my opinion.

We, as Christians, often seem to want to force unbelievers to live the way we see they ought to live. Outlaw homosexuality, adultery, fornication, smoking, and a million other little things. It is as though Christians believe that someone can be saved if we just force them to act right. Not good.

Conversely, when we are the government as in a democratic republic, failing to outlaw harmful behavior is just as wrong. Great inner goodness that is never expressed to others is just as pointless an endeavor as great outward goodness that hides inward evil.

Both and, not either or.

Teallaura
10-22-2016, 09:27 AM
I harbor the suspicion that our politics has absolutely nothing in common with the Kingdom of God.
He doesn't seem to gravitate to people/places/things that people elevate as being important.

It is very possible that God has no interest whatsoever in the outcome of our Presidential election as the real power centers on the planet are those people who've embraced life in the Spirit.

If we were to make a list of the top most influential Americans I bet it wouldn't have a single person in common with God's list.
He likes to use the simple, silly, base things to get the big stuff done.


The same God Who both exalted and debased kings as needed? I think like any Good Father, He is interested in us - He may chuckle at our house drawn with only one wall and the dog that looks like a lollipop but that doesn't mean He's disinterested. He is, of course, most able to tell the important from the unimportant where we have a huge tendency to get those completely wrong - but that's not the same thing as having no interest in the unimportant. God Who can use evil for good can also use whatever we come up with to His purpose.

Abandoning the harvest field because it has a few stumps seems extreme to me. Guard against the danger and grab that sickle, if that's the field He sent you into.

Teallaura
10-22-2016, 09:28 AM
This is what insanity sounds like.
The things of God often seem foolish to the world.

TheWall
10-22-2016, 09:40 AM
Is it insanity? I would say it is divine providence. Christianity first emerged and was illegal. You died if they caught you. Yet it thrived. Only Gods help could nake that so.

Meh Gerbil
10-22-2016, 12:58 PM
Is it insanity? I would say it is divine providence. Christianity first emerged and was illegal. You died if they caught you. Yet it thrived. Only Gods help could nake that so.You have to understand that Darth Executor's idea of the Kingdom of God has less to do with the Gospel and more to do with a sadomasochistic revenge fantasy penned by an alcoholic suffering from PTSD. He wants sinners to suffer and he wants to be the guy administering the pain.

Jedidiah
10-22-2016, 01:08 PM
Conversely, when we are the government as in a democratic republic, failing to outlaw harmful behavior is just as wrong. Great inner goodness that is never expressed to others is just as pointless an endeavor as great outward goodness that hides inward evil.

Both and, not either or.
I was referring to the second position you mentioned, trying to make unbelievers put on an outward appearance of goodness which was not a reflection of inner evil. Certainly we can and must apply our Christian morality to public issues when voting or supporting laws.

Teallaura
10-22-2016, 01:28 PM
I was referring to the second position you mentioned, trying to make unbelievers put on an outward appearance of goodness which was not a reflection of inner evil. Certainly we can and must apply our Christian morality to public issues when voting or supporting laws.
Fair enough.

Darth Executor
10-22-2016, 08:22 PM
Is it insanity? I would say it is divine providence. Christianity first emerged and was illegal. You died if they caught you. Yet it thrived. Only Gods help could nake that so.

Christianity was not illegal when it first emerged. Christians were PERSECUTED in Israel... and surprise surprise it didn't much flourish there, with Christ's handpicked apostles at the helm to boot. Maybe you, KG and Gerbil think you can do better. Christians didn't start suffering widespread persecution until much later, when their numbers were much larger, and a strong reason for the persecution was precisely that those numbers were becoming threatening to pagan authorities. Saying christianity flourishes in cultures that are most hostile to it is well beyond dumb. Christianity is not flourishing in Saudi Arabia, or Hollywood (to name two places which are virulently hostile to it). Christianity flourishes where Christians can compete on even ground for converts and really blooms where it controls all secular institutions and can impose restrictions on others.

As I said, KG's comment was pure insanity and unfortunately it's a type of insanity that is very pervasive among modern Christians.

Darth Executor
10-22-2016, 08:27 PM
You have to understand that Darth Executor's idea of the Kingdom of God has less to do with the Gospel and more to do with a sadomasochistic revenge fantasy penned by an alcoholic suffering from PTSD. He wants sinners to suffer and he wants to be the guy administering the pain.

More like Darth Executor is concerned with the souls of his neighbours and future generations whereas Meh Gerbil *edit*in hindsight, this sounds harsher than intended, so I'll just wish the gerbil good luck in finally coming to terms with reality, it's quite liberating, believe me.*edit*
And I can assure you there is nothing masochistic about my sadistic revenge fantasy.

firstfloor
11-01-2016, 06:40 AM
Christianity flourishes where Christians can compete on even ground for converts and really blooms where it controls all secular institutions and can impose restrictions on others.
Christianity and some other religions are not a flower. They are a cancer. And Christians are like patients in a lunatic asylum.

The cure may take a little while but at least we have a diagnosis.

Bill the Cat
11-01-2016, 07:00 AM
Christianity and some other religions are not a flower. They are a cancer. And Christians are like patients in a lunatic asylum.

The cure may take a little while but at least we have a diagnosis.

Why are you always so hateful?

Cow Poke
11-01-2016, 07:15 AM
Christianity and some other religions are not a flower. They are a cancer.

You're seeming particularly hateful of late, FF. Everything OK?


And Christians are like patients in a lunatic asylum.

But it's OK - everybody knows me here! :smile:


The cure may take a little while but at least we have a diagnosis.

Speaking of cures - have you ever noticed how many hospitals and clinics and rescue organizations and hospital ships and ministries are run by and funded by ....



CHRISTIANS?

:egad:

firstfloor
11-01-2016, 10:13 AM
Why are you always so hateful?Friends, Romans, countrymen; not hateful, not even angry, just a little more blunt than usual but I hope proportionate to the challenge represented by the earlier post on which I commented. We live in polarising times, do we not? I understand that it looks aggressive to you – that is, unfortunately, part of your condition – I did it again, you see – impossible to avoid – not much wonder that the world looks sinful to you. I will do my best to make you feel at home in the world; I hope that sounds more positive.

I think we are living through the end times – the end of religious faith, as we currently know it. It will last another two or three generations perhaps. When it starts to shrink it will go rapidly. We already have the sense that believers feel deeply oppressed by their zealous overlords and they are getting ready to throw off their chains.

I know you don’t see it this way but me being here is an opportunity for you to witness the new and better world that is currently invisible to you (this way of explaining it may sound familiar). Who knows, you may wish one day to join the heathen hordes.

Is there such a thing as atheist evangelism, I wonder.

... Don’t all rush at once.

firstfloor
11-01-2016, 10:17 AM
You're seeming particularly hateful of late, FF. Everything OK?
Thanks for asking. All is as well as can be expected. See above for the latest thoughts of firstfloor.

Cow Poke
11-01-2016, 10:23 AM
Friends, Romans, countrymen; not hateful, not even angry, just a little more blunt than usual but I hope proportionate to the challenge represented by the earlier post on which I commented. We live in polarising times, do we not? I understand that it looks aggressive to you – that is, unfortunately, part of your condition – I did it again, you see – impossible to avoid – not much wonder that the world looks sinful to you. I will do my best to make you feel at home in the world; I hope that sounds more positive.

I think we are living through the end times – the end of religious faith, as we currently know it. It will last another two or three generations perhaps. When it starts to shrink it will go rapidly. We already have the sense that believers feel deeply oppressed by their zealous overlords and they are getting ready to throw off their chains.

I know you don’t see it this way but me being here is an opportunity for you to witness the new and better world that is currently invisible to you (this way of explaining it may sound familiar). Who knows, you may wish one day to join the heathen hordes.

Is there such a thing as atheist evangelism, I wonder.

... Don’t all rush at once.

Bless your heart.

firstfloor
11-01-2016, 10:23 AM
We do have the small view.I fear it is just you. In my opinion, we have God’s eye view already but some of us fail to understand and appreciate the view.

Bill the Cat
11-01-2016, 10:38 AM
Friends, Romans, countrymen; not hateful, not even angry, just a little more blunt than usual but I hope proportionate to the challenge represented by the earlier post on which I commented. We live in polarising times, do we not? I understand that it looks aggressive to you – that is, unfortunately, part of your condition – I did it again, you see – impossible to avoid – not much wonder that the world looks sinful to you. I will do my best to make you feel at home in the world; I hope that sounds more positive.

I think we are living through the end times – the end of religious faith, as we currently know it. It will last another two or three generations perhaps. When it starts to shrink it will go rapidly. We already have the sense that believers feel deeply oppressed by their zealous overlords and they are getting ready to throw off their chains.

I know you don’t see it this way but me being here is an opportunity for you to witness the new and better world that is currently invisible to you (this way of explaining it may sound familiar). Who knows, you may wish one day to join the heathen hordes.

Is there such a thing as atheist evangelism, I wonder.

... Don’t all rush at once.

I think you should put down the drugs.

Jedidiah
11-01-2016, 12:59 PM
I think we are living through the end times – the end of religious faith, as we currently know it. It will last another two or three generations perhaps. When it starts to shrink it will go rapidly. We already have the sense that believers feel deeply oppressed by their zealous overlords and they are getting ready to throw off their chains.

Wow! This such new prediction. Never before heard.

Bill the Cat
11-01-2016, 01:38 PM
In my opinion...

FF's version of "Dude, hold my beer!"

One Bad Pig
11-01-2016, 02:16 PM
I think we are living through the end times – the end of religious faith, as we currently know it. It will last another two or three generations perhaps. When it starts to shrink it will go rapidly. We already have the sense that believers feel deeply oppressed by their zealous overlords and they are getting ready to throw off their chains.
Voltaire called. He would like his prediction back.

Meh Gerbil
11-02-2016, 05:53 AM
Friends, Romans, countrymen; not hateful, not even angry, just a little more blunt than usual but I hope proportionate to the challenge represented by the earlier post on which I commented. We live in polarising times, do we not? I understand that it looks aggressive to you – that is, unfortunately, part of your condition – I did it again, you see – impossible to avoid – not much wonder that the world looks sinful to you. I will do my best to make you feel at home in the world; I hope that sounds more positive.

I think we are living through the end times – the end of religious faith, as we currently know it. It will last another two or three generations perhaps. When it starts to shrink it will go rapidly. We already have the sense that believers feel deeply oppressed by their zealous overlords and they are getting ready to throw off their chains.

I know you don’t see it this way but me being here is an opportunity for you to witness the new and better world that is currently invisible to you (this way of explaining it may sound familiar). Who knows, you may wish one day to join the heathen hordes.

Is there such a thing as atheist evangelism, I wonder.

... Don’t all rush at once.
I'm having trouble envisioning a post-religious era.
How do you propose we control people without the fear of hell?

Bill the Cat
11-02-2016, 06:00 AM
I'm having trouble envisioning a post-religious era.
How do you propose we control people without the fear of hell?

C'mon Gerbz. Don't you know that everyone is really a law-abiding pacifist at their core and only religion lets them become violent war mongers?

Meh Gerbil
11-02-2016, 06:11 AM
Thanks for asking. All is as well as can be expected. See above for the latest thoughts of firstfloor.
I would hate you with the heat of a thousand suns but I really like your avatar.

firstfloor
11-02-2016, 04:19 PM
I'm having trouble envisioning a post-religious era.
How do you propose we control people without the fear of hell?The idea of control seems wrong to me. By what right does one man control another? If equality matters, there is no control except that we agree a limited range of habits for the very light regulation of society. Control is related to property rights but beware of large imbalances leading to crime and corruption.

Cow Poke
11-02-2016, 07:45 PM
The idea of control seems wrong to me. By what right does one man control another? If equality matters, there is no control except that we agree a limited range of habits for the very light regulation of society. Control is related to property rights but beware of large imbalances leading to crime and corruption.

If a man cannot be controlled from within, he needs to be controlled from without.

When a man has too much to drink and drives a vehicle, he needs to be controlled.
When a man beats a woman, he needs to be controlled.
When a person threatens another with physical violence, they need to be controlled.

When somebody is driving recklessly, they need to be controlled.

If everybody had a good moral compass, we wouldn't need to control anybody. :shrug:

Jedidiah
11-02-2016, 11:35 PM
ff


If a man cannot be controlled from within, he needs to be controlled from without.

When a man has too much to drink and drives a vehicle, he needs to be controlled.
When a man beats a woman, he needs to be controlled.
When a person threatens another with physical violence, they need to be controlled.

When somebody is driving recklessly, they need to be controlled.

If everybody had a good moral compass, we wouldn't need to control anybody. :shrug: