"This Generation"

[John Reece]

Dee Dee asked me to consider posting an essay on genea (the Greek word rendered "generation" in the LXX and the Greek NT). My response was that the essay to which she was referring is too long to post in this forum.

I was content to leave it at that - until I read the thread on the meaning of "generation" in Matthew 24.

The essay to which Dee Dee referred is the one headed Two Languages: One Word, One Meaning on this page: http://www.johnreece.us.

The editors of the Greek Lexicons approach the study of the word etymologically and in the context of Greek literature beyond the LXX and the Greek NT. The meaning of genea in the context of the LXX and the four Gospels is not at all rooted in or related to the etymology of the Greek word.

The LXX and the four Gospels are "translation Greek". They are translations of what was said and/or written in Hebrew and/or Aramaic. The Greek word rendered genea in the LXX and the Greek NT represents the Hebrew word DOR, which has a totally different etymological history.

More later, if anyone is interested...

[GrayPilgrim]

02-24-2003 @ 06:51 PM
John Reece:

Dee Dee asked me to consider posting an essay on genea (the Greek word rendered "generation" in the LXX and the Greek NT). My response was that the essay to which she was referring is too long to post in this forum.

I was content to leave it at that - until I read the thread on the meaning of "generation" in Matthew 24.

The essay to which Dee Dee referred is the one headed Two Languages: One Word, One Meaning on this page: http://www.johnreece.us.

The editors of the Greek Lexicons approach the study of the word etymologically and in the context of Greek literature beyond the LXX and the Greek NT. The meaning of genea in the context of the LXX and the four Gospels is not at all rooted in or related to the etymology of the Greek word.

The LXX and the four Gospels are "translation Greek". They are translations of what was said and/or written in Hebrew and/or Aramaic. The Greek word rendered genea in the LXX and the Greek NT represents the Hebrew word DOR, which has a totally different etymological history.

More later, if anyone is interested...


I notice two problems with your synopsis at the outset:

1. First Aramaic not Hebrew would have been the language of Jesus and the Disciples. The word would have been דר which can designate seperation of time. Interestingly if one uses comparative Semitics and looks at Ugaritic one sees its cognate is drdr here is the entry in Segert A Basic Grammar of the Ugaritic Language p. 183-4:

1.2:IV:10=88.51 dr.dr 1.19:IV:6=87.4 "long time, eternity: (cf. Akkad. daru, duru "duration, eternity," a-na da-ri du-ri P:III:16.282:13 ([.161), dur dari "forever"; cf. H. dor (wa-)dor...

So the Cognates seem to millitate against the necessary narrow definition you are arguing for.

2. "Translation Greek"--The LXX would also be translation Greek, however, this is a linguistic fallacy, whether the thing was said in Hebrew (doubtfull, more likely Aramaic as discussed above) the author of the books of Matthew would have had full recourse to all of the lexical variety of Greek.

GP

[John Reece]

Thanks for the response, GP.

In the The New Covenant Aramaic Peshita Text with Hebrew Translation, DOR is of course the Hebrew word that occurs in Matthew 24:34. There is nothing like DR in the Aramaic text of the verse. What does the Aramaic word spelled (in the Hebrew alphabet?) Shin-Resh-Beth-Taw-'Aleph mean in the context of the Aramaic Peshita text of Matthew 24:34?

[GrayPilgrim]

02-25-2003 @ 10:19 PM
John Reece:

Thanks for the response, GP.

In the The New Covenant Aramaic Peshita Text with Hebrew Translation, DOR is of course the Hebrew word that occurs in Matthew 24:34. There is nothing like DR in the Aramaic text of the verse. What does the Aramaic word spelled (in the Hebrew alphabet?) Shin-Resh-Beth-Taw-'Aleph mean in the context of the Aramaic Peshita text of Matthew 24:34?

Your welcome, I like the minutiae(sp?) Because too often we are wont to jump to theologizing before we have figured out what the text actually says. The Hebrew alphabet fell out of use after the return from the Exile in the 6th-5th Century BC and was replaced by the square Aramaic Script, so that what is generally called the "Hebrew Alphabet" is in reality the Aramaic writing system.

Clarification question is the next to last letter tet or tav?

As I cannot find an entry with a Tav I will assume tet, but if not please let me know and I'll dig a little more. If it is tet then Jastrow in his Dictionary of the Targumim, Talmud Babli, Yerushalmi and Midrashic Literature which covers the Aramacized Hebrew of the Period has:
שרביט 1)Staff, sceptre, rod...2)shoot, twig, stem with pods, bunch

שרביטא (h. text שבט)

For שבט I'll go over to Koehler Baumgartner's HALOT
שבט is used in connection with the displaced tribes, while מטה is used for all those settled in their own territory, as especially in Joshua.

GP



[Pheww! I'd just copied this to the clipboard and attemtped to post it when the site went down otherwise it would have vanished into cyber-space.]

[John Reece]

Clarification question is the next to last letter tet or tav?
The latter: tav
As I cannot find an entry with a Tav I will assume tet, but if not please let me know and I'll dig a little more.
Please do dig a little more.

Here is a quote of the first paragraph in the Editor's Note of The New Covenant Aramaic Peshitta Text with Hebrew Translation: "The Aramaic Scriptures Research Society in Israel expresses its sincere gratitude to all those who have made possible the publication of this edition of the New Covenant (Testament) in Aramaic, with a translation in Hebrew. In order to render the Aramaic text legible to those who do not know the Aramaic script, it has been transcribed in Hebrew letters complete with vowel points."

I can read the Hebrew, but cannot read the Aramaic (except when the words are the same in both languages). So I look forward with eager anticipation to all you can tell me about the word in question, which appears as the Aramaic rendering in all the verses I've looked at so far wherein the Hebrew rendering is DOR and the rendering in the Greek New Testament is GENEA.

By the way, in the Aramaic word as it occurs in the text to which I am referring, there is no Yodh between the Beth and the Taw [you and I obviously learned the Hebrew alphabet in different schools :smile: - in my case, Duke in the 1950's and 60's].

[GrayPilgrim]

I learned it at Ohio State from a bunch of Israelis 95-98. And then TEDS 99-02 from Americans and Dutchmen.

But I'll keep looking. I figured the yod would have been a Matres Lectiones and besides Jastrow has got to be the most convaluted Lexicon I have ever had the misfortune of using.

[John Reece]

Original post deleted, because it was based on a misreading of a single letter in a single word in an exegetical commentary.



Minutiae matter.