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Seve
12-09-2016, 02:30 AM
The Flood and it's consequences, as told in Genesis, is truly an amazing story. It's a terrific mystery, when unraveled, displays the Supreme Intelligence of our God and tells us of our True Origins.

God tells us, as it is written in the Scripture, that we live in three different Worlds - composed of at least 3 Heavens or Worlds, literally speaking.

The first World was the first Heaven (Gen 1:6-8) which was totally destroyed in the Flood. ll Peter 3:6 The present Heaven or Universe (our World) will be burned. ll Peter 3:10 The third Heaven or World is the New Heaven and New Earth, where Jesus is preparing a place for us - Rev. 21Ö and it is Eternal - Rev. 22:5.

In order to understand the Great Flood, one must understand the following:

The world of Adam was an enclosed Biosphere much smaller than our world, which was totally surrounded by the firmament which protected it from the water into which it was placed. Gen 1:6-8

Adam's earth is considered FLAT and much smaller than our present world - It had only 4 Rivers, which all ran out of the Garden of Eden .... compared to our present world, we have thousands of Rivers all over the face of our earth. The elevation of their highest mountain (Adamís world) was only 15 cubits high (22 1/2 ft.) while our highest mountain here on our earth measures some 29k ft. Above sea level.

In fact, Adam's Earth was not on a Rocky Planet, like our present world, since it was "clean dissolved" in the Flood, and rocks don't dissolve in water.*Isa 24:19


God bless

hansgeorg
12-09-2016, 02:54 AM
Adam's earth is considered FLAT and much smaller than our present world

St Augustine doesn't agree. He explains in detail how first light and then Sun circled each day around a round Earth, precisely as now (yes, St Augustine was a Geocentric too, not just St Thomas Aquinas, Sungenis, John Martin and me ...)


- It had only 4 Rivers, which all ran out of the Garden of Eden .... compared to our present world, we have thousands of Rivers all over the face of our earth.

The text does not say those 4 rivers were the only ones in the world.

The text does identify them with rivers we have now, like one of them is Frat.

Not sure whether Frat and Hiddekel ran south as now or North from what is now Persian Gulf, but they were Euphrates and Tigris.

The other two might be Nile and Ganges, though Danube has also been suggested. See my reflection here. (http://filolohika.blogspot.fr/2016/05/four-rivers.html)


The elevation of their highest mountain (Adamís world) was only 15 cubits high (22 1/2 ft.) while our highest mountain here on our earth measures some 29k ft. Above sea level.

The text does NOT say the highest mountains were only 15 cubits high.

It does say that water rose 15 cubits over the mountains which were highest.

However, present height of our highest mountains, would be due to post-Flood tectonic movement.

Not sure whether water rose only 15 cubits over highest mountains or whether the moment when it did was the last time water level could be measured before Ark went drifting across what had become a water world, but it does imply the highest mountains were so flat one could build an Ark on top of one of them, presumably THE highest mountain. See my reflection here (http://creavsevolu.blogspot.fr/2016/09/what-can-altaic-flood-legend-teach.html) and here. (http://creavsevolu.blogspot.fr/2016/07/reviewing-sarfati-on-shallow-pre-flood.html)

Seve
12-09-2016, 03:45 AM
Dear hansgeorg,

Noah and the Ark were 22 1/2 ft (15 cubits) above the Highest Elevation of Adam's Earth on the 150th Day after the Flood began. At this depth the Mountains of that Earth were covered in water. Gen 7:20.... Contrary to your view.

On the SAME 150th Day after the Flood began, the Ark rested upon the mountains of Ararat. Gen 8:4

Since you disagree, please explain to us HOW could the Ark be in both places on the SAME Day?


God bless

Sparko
12-09-2016, 06:03 AM
:popcorn:

Bill the Cat
12-09-2016, 09:03 AM
19970

Meh Gerbil
12-09-2016, 10:30 AM
The Flood and it's consequences, as told in Genesis, is truly an amazing story. It's a terrific mystery, when unraveled, displays the Supreme Intelligence of our God and tells us of our True Origins.


God tells us, as it is written in the Scripture, that we live in three different Worlds - composed of at least 3 Heavens or Worlds, literally speaking.

The first World was the first Heaven (Gen 1:6-8) which was totally destroyed in the Flood. ll Peter 3:6 The present Heaven or Universe (our World) will be burned. ll Peter 3:10 The third Heaven or World is the New Heaven and New Earth, where Jesus is preparing a place for us - Rev. 21Ö and it is Eternal - Rev. 22:5.

I disagree.

The passage in Genesis doesn't designate a 'First World' as something separate from the 'Second World'. The 'Second World' is just the 'First World' that has undergone a changes brought about by sin and decay resulting in a flood. The 'Third World' as you describe it makes sense because a new creation is described. I don't see scriptural justification for the first and second world being materially different worlds.



In order to understand the Great Flood, one must understand the following:

The world of Adam was an enclosed Biosphere much smaller than our world, which was totally surrounded by the firmament which protected it from the water into which it was placed. Gen 1:6-8
I've yet to see Scriptural justification for this claim.


Adam's earth is considered FLAT and much smaller than our present world - It had only 4 Rivers, which all ran out of the Garden of Eden .... compared to our present world, we have thousands of Rivers all over the face of our earth. The elevation of their highest mountain (Adamís world) was only 15 cubits high (22 1/2 ft.) while our highest mountain here on our earth measures some 29k ft. Above sea level.

The Scriptures do not say those were the only rivers, just rivers that were near Eden.
If Mark Twain writes about Huckleberry Finn on the Mississippi he isn't claiming that in the only river in the USA.
Also, Flood geologists would claim our current mountain ranges are a result of the flood - not indicative of an entirely different world.


In fact, Adam's Earth was not on a Rocky Planet, like our present world, since it was "clean dissolved" in the Flood, and rocks don't dissolve in water.*Isa 24:19
God bless
No.
Just No.
It is a misuse of scripture to take snippets from several different books to create doctrine.
Mixing poetry, history, and theology indiscriminately together without recognizing the different genres is a nice way to come up with some really messed up stuff.

Sparko
12-09-2016, 11:22 AM
The elevation of their highest mountain (Adamís world) was only 15 cubits high (22 1/2 ft.)

er.. say what? Where do you get that? 22 FEET? That's not even a hill.

Seve
12-09-2016, 05:04 PM
The Physical Making of the 1st, 2nd and 3rd HeavenS or Worlds = Multiverse.

The 1st firmament of heaven Made (Gen 1:6-8) was like a glass container (simile) in which God would build above the firmament. The firmament protected Adam's Earth from the water which completely surrounded this firmament. The verses below reveal this since God places water inside the firmament of heaven above....

(Gen 1:6-8 KJV)And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters. 7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which [were] under the firmament from the waters which [were] above the firmament: and it was so. 8*And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the*second day.

He then built solid ground (similar to a man made island) on top of the water under the heaven. Can you visualize our Lord God building a solid ground into the middle of water? IF you can, then, thatí more or less how God divided the waters from the waters.*

9 And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so. 10*And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good.

The firmament b/w Adamís Earth and the heaven above*was empty, containing clear air only.

(Gen 2:6 KJV) But there went up a mist from the earth, and watered the whole face of the ground.

..... and the Earth atmosphere is formed.

Now, that we understand that Adam's firmament/heaven which was made the 2nd Day, and the mist that went up from Earth on the 3rd Day Gen 1:8... forming the Earthís Atmosphere..... the information below added to the account revealed in this verse:

(Gen 2:4 KJV)*These are the generations of the heavenS (plural) and of the earth when they were created,in the day*that the Lord God made the earth and the heavens,*

Notice: As you already know, the 1st Firmament called Heaven, was made on the 2nd Day.Gen 1:6-8.

However, the cited verse above (Gen.2:4) is speaking of other heavenS (plural) Made in the SAME day as Adamís Earth. Gen 1:9. The ONLY Day the Earth and the other Heavens could have been made was the 3rd Day.

Add the first heaven, made the 2nd Day, Gen 1:8 plus the other heavens Gen 2:4 which were made on the 3rd Day, including the one that is being prepared for us, right now (Jhn 14:2 KJV) when this world is burned (Rev 21:1 KJV) then, you now have 3 different Heavens or Worlds..

IOW, no one in the proper frame of mind could seriously deny that God Created and Made us a 3 different Worlds or Multiverse to live in, Amen?


God Bless


Heb 11:3 Through faith we understand that the WORLDS were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.

Meh Gerbil
12-09-2016, 05:29 PM
I'm starting to reconsider the Protestant position that every person should have a Bible.

Christianbookworm
12-09-2016, 05:40 PM
I'm starting to reconsider the Protestant position that every person should have a Bible.

Maybe we should have a test to show that a person has the logic skills, exegetical skills, and any other required skills to read the Bible unsupervised. Or at least make them pass the test to talk about their "brilliant" ideas.

robrecht
12-09-2016, 05:56 PM
I'm starting to reconsider the Protestant position that every person should have a Bible.
As a Catholic, I have never, ever doubted the truth of this 'Protestant' position, but I have to admit, you make a very good point!

Seve
12-09-2016, 06:10 PM
The Physical Making of the 1st, 2nd and 3rd HeavenS or Worlds = Multiverse.

The 1st firmament of heaven Made (Gen 1:6-8) was like a glass container (simile) in which God would build above the firmament. The firmament protected Adam's Earth from the water which completely surrounded this firmament. The verses below reveal this since God places water inside the firmament of heaven above....

(Gen 1:6-8 KJV)And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters. 7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which [were] under the firmament from the waters which [were] above the firmament: and it was so. 8*And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the*second day.

He then built solid ground (similar to a man made island) on top of the water under the heaven. Can you visualize our Lord God building a solid ground into the middle of water? IF you can, then, thatí more or less how God divided the waters from the waters.*

9 And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so. 10*And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good.

The firmament b/w Adamís Earth and the heaven above*was empty, containing clear air only.

(Gen 2:6 KJV) But there went up a mist from the earth, and watered the whole face of the ground.

..... and the Earth atmosphere is formed.

Now, that we understand that Adam's firmament/heaven which was made the 2nd Day, and the mist that went up from Earth on the 3rd Day Gen 1:8... forming the Earthís Atmosphere..... the information below added to the account revealed in this verse:

(Gen 2:4 KJV)*These are the generations of the heavenS (plural) and of the earth when they were created,in the day*that the Lord God made the earth and the heavens,*

Notice: As you already know, the 1st Firmament called Heaven, was made on the 2nd Day.Gen 1:6-8.

However, the cited verse above (Gen.2:4) is speaking of other heavenS (plural) Made in the SAME day as Adamís Earth. Gen 1:9. The ONLY Day the Earth and the other Heavens could have been made was the 3rd Day.

Add the first heaven, made the 2nd Day, Gen 1:8 plus the other heavens Gen 2:4 which were made on the 3rd Day, including the one that is being prepared for us, right now (Jhn 14:2 KJV) when this world is burned (Rev 21:1 KJV) then, you now have 3 different Heavens or Worlds..

IOW, no one in the proper frame of mind could seriously deny that God Created and Made us a 3 different Worlds or Multiverse to live in, Amen?


God Bless


Heb 11:3 Through faith we understand that the WORLDS were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.

Remember, the 1st heaven or universe was Adam's world (Gen 1:6-8 KJV), which was "clean dissolved" in the Flood. The present Universe is the 2nd Heaven, our world, made Billions of years AFTER Adam's world was made, and is also doomed for destruction and will be dissolved too. The 3rd Heaven or world is where Christians will go AFTER our world is burned Rev 21.

[Rev 21:1 KJV] And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

Of course, itís entirely New Heaven and New Earth, compare to the first that was totally destroyed the 2nd that is also doomed to be destroyed..... therefore, God made us a Multiverse. Amen!?

God Bless

hansgeorg
12-10-2016, 01:49 AM
Dear hansgeorg,

Noah and the Ark were 22 1/2 ft (15 cubits) above the Highest Elevation of Adam's Earth on the 150th Day after the Flood began. At this depth the Mountains of that Earth were covered in water. Gen 7:20.... Contrary to your view.

On the SAME 150th Day after the Flood began, the Ark rested upon the mountains of Ararat. Gen 8:4

Since you disagree, please explain to us HOW could the Ark be in both places on the SAME Day?


God bless

[18] For they overflowed exceedingly: and filled all on the face of the earth: and the ark was carried upon the waters. [19] And the waters prevailed beyond measure upon the earth: and all the high mountains under the whole heaven were covered. [20] The water was fifteen cubits higher than the mountains which it covered. ... [24] And the waters prevailed upon the earth a hundred and fifty days. ... [3] And the waters returned from off the earth going and coming: and they began to be abated after a hundred and fifty days.

You get the 15 cubits wrong, no trace of mountains being limited to that and you get the 150 days wrong, they are counted from AFTER the 15 cubits over highest mountains.

Also, since Ararat is volcanic, it can have risen some during the 150 days, so the waters did not need to abate much (not go fifteen cubits down, for instance) before the Ark could rest.

hansgeorg
12-10-2016, 01:51 AM
Maybe we should have a test to show that a person has the logic skills, exegetical skills, and any other required skills to read the Bible unsupervised. Or at least make them pass the test to talk about their "brilliant" ideas.

While the Spanish Inquisition determined who could and who couldn't read the Bible among those not obliged to, it required skills in prayer and obedience to the Church.

hansgeorg
12-10-2016, 01:52 AM
It is a misuse of scripture to take snippets from several different books to create doctrine.
Mixing poetry, history, and theology indiscriminately together without recognizing the different genres is a nice way to come up with some really messed up stuff.

That is on the other hand wrong.

The problem is with whether rocks can be dissolved, I think they can under that kind of water pressure that Flood geologists are considering.

hansgeorg
12-10-2016, 01:55 AM
Quoting with my added emphasis by underlining:


Remember, the 1st heaven or universe was Adam's world (Gen 1:6-8 KJV), which was "clean dissolved" in the Flood. The present Universe is the 2nd Heaven, our world, made Billions of years AFTER Adam's world was made, and is also doomed for destruction and will be dissolved too. The 3rd Heaven or world is where Christians will go AFTER our world is burned Rev 21.

Where do you get billions of years from?

Christianbookworm
12-10-2016, 06:48 AM
Quoting with my added emphasis by underlining:



Where do you get billions of years from?

The ark must have been a TARDIS! :outtie:

hansgeorg
12-10-2016, 10:19 AM
The ark must have been a TARDIS! :outtie:

I can imagine Heaven being a TARDIS when it comes to each saint hearing all prayers adressed to him or her or above all Her ... but the Ark, not quite no.

Christianbookworm
12-10-2016, 10:25 AM
I can imagine Heaven being a TARDIS when it comes to each saint hearing all prayers adressed to him or her or above all Her ... but the Ark, not quite no.

Do you know what a JOKE is?

hansgeorg
12-10-2016, 10:30 AM
Yes, mine often consist in taking those of others at face value.

Seve
12-11-2016, 04:13 AM
Remember, the 1st heaven or universe was Adam's world (Gen 1:6-8 KJV), which was "clean dissolved" in the Flood. The present Universe is the 2nd Heaven, our world, made Billions of years AFTER Adam's world was made, and is also doomed for destruction and will be dissolved too. The 3rd Heaven or world is where Christians will go AFTER our world is burned Rev 21.

[Rev 21:1 KJV] And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

Of course, itís entirely New Heaven and New Earth, compare to the first that was totally destroyed the 2nd that is also doomed to be destroyed..... therefore, God made us a Multiverse. Amen!?

God Bless


Quoting with my added emphasis by underlining:


Where do you get billions of years from?


We live today at Gen 1:27 since God is STILL creating mankind in His Image or in Christ, as ANY Church will tell you. That means that ALL Humans have lived and died*on the present 6th Day or Age, which will NOT end until AFTER Jesus returns at the end of time, and changes EVERY creature into Vegetarians, Gen 1:30*BEFORE the present 6th Day ends.*

There is no interpretation needed since Science has measured the time since the Big Bang at 13.7 Billion years ago, and God shows it was 3 Days or Ages ago, which means that EACH of God's Days is some 4.5 Billion years in length, in man's time. God's Truth is the Truth Scientifically, Historically, and in EVERY other way, IF you can understand God's Holy Word.

We live in a Multiverse. Gen 1:6-8 shows one and Gen 2:4 shows other heavenS being made on another Day.*That's a Multiverse, containing at least 2 or more separate universes. Gen 2:4-7 shows that Adam was made on the SAME Day as the Big Bang of our Cosmos, but unbelievers tell us ancient men authored this?. I don't believe that.

Only God, the Supreme Intelligence of Creation, the Creator who CANNOT Lie would get these things scientifically correct, even today.*I like the FACT that Gen 2:4 shows that the Big Bang of our world was on the*THIRD Day*and the FIRST Stars of our Cosmos did NOT put forth their Light until the*FOURTH Day. Gen 1:16[/b]

Science has recently learned that it took Hundreds of Millions of years AFTER the Big Bang BEFORE the FIRST Stars put forth their Light. It's PROOF that ONLY God could have written Genesis.

God and true science discoveries are in agreement.

God bless

hansgeorg
12-12-2016, 02:55 AM
We live today at Gen 1:27 since God is STILL creating mankind in His Image or in Christ, as ANY Church will tell you. That means that ALL Humans have lived and died*on the present 6th Day or Age, which will NOT end until AFTER Jesus returns at the end of time, and changes EVERY creature into Vegetarians, Gen 1:30*BEFORE the present 6th Day ends.*

I think there is a difference between:

* creation of man as a species in God's image, by creation of its first parents
and
* sanctification of saved mankind, creating or reshaping it in His image, in the Church;

and similarily between:
* 6th day as a day in Creation week
and
* sixth age, typefied by the sixth day in creation week.


There is no interpretation needed since Science has measured the time since the Big Bang at 13.7 Billion years ago, and God shows it was 3 Days or Ages ago, which means that EACH of God's Days is some 4.5 Billion years in length, in man's time. God's Truth is the Truth Scientifically, Historically, and in EVERY other way, IF you can understand God's Holy Word.

Feel free to say what methods scientists use when they pretend to "measure the time since the Big Bang".

I am there to refute them, as long as I can.

As for "science", that is the name of an activity, like singing. Saying people sing in Wozzek doesn't specify whether they sing well or false.

Seve
12-12-2016, 05:19 AM
Dear hansgeorg ,

It's simple to know if one's interpretation is correct. If it agrees with God's Holy Word, true Science, and History, it's as close to the One Truth as is Humanly possible. The fault is Not with God's Truth, but with man's ability to understand it, for His thoughts are far above man's thoughts.

Thereís not one Truth for Science and another one for Christian believers. When you find Godís Truth, both Truth agrees with the One Truth or else you have not found God's Truth. And most likely, your interpretation of the Scripture is wrong!

The Scripture documents us that thereís only one Truth...... and Jesus says He is the Truth....

I canít wait to find the One Truth..... face to face. How about you?

God bless

Sparko
12-12-2016, 05:37 AM
Dear hansgeorg ,

It's simple to know if one's interpretation is correct. If it agrees with God's Holy Word, true Science, and History, it's as close to the One Truth as is Humanly possible. The fault is Not with God's Truth, but with man's ability to understand it, for His thoughts are far above man's thoughts.

Thereís not one Truth for Science and another one for Christian believers. When you find Godís Truth, both Truth agrees with the One Truth or else you have not found God's Truth. And most likely, your interpretation of the Scripture is wrong!

The Scripture documents us that thereís only one Truth...... and Jesus says He is the Truth....

I canít wait to find the One Truth..... face to face. How about you?

God bless


Except you are showing that you neither understand the Bible, nor science. You just seem to be mixing up erroneous assumptions about each into some weird amalgam of nonsense.

Seve
12-12-2016, 05:52 AM
Except you are showing that you neither understand the Bible, nor science. You just seem to be mixing up erroneous assumptions about each into some weird amalgam of nonsense.

I support ALL my posts with Scripture.....together with true science and history if necessary. If you disagree, then post your contradicting view with Scripture..... contrary to what I have posted or it will just remain UNCONTESTED! Thanks

God bless

Sparko
12-12-2016, 06:08 AM
I support ALL my posts with Scripture.....together with true science and history if necessary. If you disagree, then post your contradicting view with Scripture..... contrary to what I have posted or it will just remain UNCONTESTED! Thanks

God bless


well you never supported any of this from scripture:


Adam's earth is considered FLAT and much smaller than our present world - It had only 4 Rivers, which all ran out of the Garden of Eden .... compared to our present world, we have thousands of Rivers all over the face of our earth. The elevation of their highest mountain (Adamís world) was only 15 cubits high (22 1/2 ft.) while our highest mountain here on our earth measures some 29k ft. Above sea level.

hansgeorg
12-12-2016, 07:19 AM
I support ALL my posts with Scripture.....together with true science and history if necessary.

While supposing, erroneously, that billions of years is "true science".

Seve
12-12-2016, 02:31 PM
Isa 24:18-20 is like a double edge sword....*and speaking of Noahís Flood, since this is obviously the account of the 1st Earth being clean dissolved*in water*when the windows of their heaven were opened. It's speaking of Adam's world being completely destroyed in water during the Flood.*

However, it is also set up as a*Snare or Trap....to catch those willingly ignorant unbelievers of this last days. Hereís the context of the snare or a trap, below.

Isa 24:18 And it shall come to pass, that he who fleeth from the noise of the fear shall fall into the pit; and he that cometh up out of the midst of the pit shall be taken in the snare:*for the windows from on high are open, and the foundations of the earth do shake. v19*The earth is utterly broken down,*the earth is clean dissolved, the earth is moved exceedingly. v20*The earth shall reel to and fro like a drunkard, and shall be removed like a cottage; and the transgression thereof shall be heavy upon it; and it shall fall, and not rise again.

Scoffers of the last days will NOT believe this... that all the inhabitants thereof (except those in the Ark)... together with the 1st Earth were totally destroyed / dissolved in the flood....*

2Pe 3:5*For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old,*and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: v6 Whereby the world (Greek-Kosmos) that*then was, being overflowed with water, perished: (Greek-destroyed, totally)

These verses from the Old and New Testament confirm that Adam's world, the world that then was, was totally destroyed in the Flood..... and that the heavens and earth which are now will also be dissolved by fire.

Scoffers, of the end of time, will be "willingly ignorant" of this event which Isaiah describes. In fact, the same word (ĒdissolvedĒ )-*is used again and kept in store*to describe the upcoming prophecy of the new heaven and earth which are now, reserved for fire - and will melt and shall be ďdissolvedĒ , by its fervent heat.

2Pe 3:7*But the heavens and the earth,*which are now,*by the same word are kept in store ("dissolved")*, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

2PE 3:12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God,*wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

However, in spite of all of these Jesus said....

Jhn 14:1 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me. v2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.


God bless