Parental Authority

[elysian]

I agree with those here who believe the best way for Christians to educate their children is home-schooling. However many of us due to financial necessity (so we can have somewhere to live and food to eat- not so we can have a Lexus instead of a Toyota) must work full time and therefore (reluctantly) must send our children to public school. In my area private schools are not an option- first of all they are all cost-prohibitive, second the only religious schools available in my area are either Catholic or Jewish.

Anyway I enjoy it when parents stand up against liberal school boards, corrupt state governments and the NEA. It lessens the amount of time we need to spend at home "deprogramming" some of the more objectionable concepts taught at school- such as evolution-as-fact, militant environmentalism, promotion of promiscuity and homosexual acceptance, etc.

Public Education Horror Stories (http://www.parentsrightscoalition.org/Horror_Stories.htm)

It used to be that cirricula could be designed and influenced locally, with parents and the community involvement in what was being taught. Now the NEA decides who is teaching your kids, and what to teach them:

Meeting the Needs of the Gay, Lesbian and Transgendered Communities (http://www.nea.org/nr/nr010705.html)

So if we must send our kids to public school, we must be vigilant and we must be visible, or the next thing we know our kids will be the next recruits...

[themuzicman]

You might want to do a cost analysis of having that second job from day care costs to higher meal costs to vehicular costs ($.33/mile) to medical costs and all those other additional expenses (like no tax credits because they are all used on the 1st income) and see if it's really worth having a 2nd job.

If memory serves, for a family of 4 whose kids need day care the LOWER income has to exceed $25,000/year in order to make sense. I'd have to look up my source on that, but that's the number I remember.

(FYI, been there, done that. I didn't make more than $30K for the first 10 years of our marriage, '85-'95, and we had 5 kids before I got above that level.)

Michael

[elysian]

Unfortunately for me, we have done that and because of Ohio's confiscatory income tax system combined with the fact that my husband's job does not offer benefits, we're stuck. If I quit my job we'd have enough money but no health insurance. If he quit his job we'd have health insurance but not nearly enough money. (both incomes >25,000, but we live in Franklin County, Ohio...high cost of living) And my husband's not a Christian and therefore would be unsuitable to home-school our son anyway in my opinion. ARRRGH. The tax benefits are nil, being in Ohio.

Besides I enjoy working. If we had more than one child or if he were younger (my son is 12-does not require daycare) then I would seriously consider finding some way to home-school exclusively. We were blessed when my son was younger by being able to have really good private-home care after school.

Just because a child goes to public school does not mean the parents are left out of the mix and this is really my point. This is why my son has extra academic work at home, including reading, writing, working with the computer, journals, trips to museums, zoos and other educational activities and Christian education at home and church. We pay exorbitant taxes (in Ohio especially) to pay for public schools. They are accountable to US, not the other way around. We are forced to pay for the schools, therefore we are entitled to demand our money's worth. We are entitled to demand a say in what's taught and what is not taught.

Simply isolating our children (and believe me that's a parent's instinct these days!) does not address the root of the problem. ALL children should be able to get a basic, solid education. The problem is that parents have left it exclusively up to the schools. The schools have become the strongest bastion of socialism (dare I say Marxism?) in this country- because parents have NOT taken a stand. I say if I'm paying for it I want my money's worth.
In my family's situation this means I must provide a counterbalance at home.

[themuzicman]

Who said that homeschooling is isolating our children?

Michael

[elysian]

I'd like to isolate my son from some of the little heathens he goes to school with! Unfortunately whether we homeschool or not we have to let our kids out in society.

[geebob]

I went to public school and I felt I had a great experience. Actually, I think there was a mixture of trauma and growth for me. Social life was very difficult in high school. But I value alot of the teachers that I had, even the liberal ones.

I was fortunate to go to a school that wasn't some liberal paradise but had a mixture of liberal and conservative teachers. But looking back, I even value some of the liberal teachers I've had (though there were some real flakes) as well as the conservative ones. Some of these folks were actually quite sensible and I tended to think of them as closet conservatives.

I spent alot of time reading conservative and christian apologetics and I would often challenge what some of my teachers said. But looking back, I do think that I should have been more respectful. Some of these guys I just wanted to lambast, and occasionally, I was succesful but more often, I was not (though I like to think those were stalemates).

As an american, living after the 70's, I share a bit of the rebellious nature that American's value (calling it a "healthy" rebellion). But of course it's a mind set that works against itself as I saw liberalism as the status quo and something to be challenged. I'm glad that I had a cynicism towards some of the things that my teachers taught but at the same time, I do feel that I was less respectful than I should have been. I think my best efforts on those fronts were in the research papers I wrote, some of which recieved high praise from teachers of differing perspectives. I had a teacher who told me that I almost convinced him of the view I was promoting, (it was a paper on creation and evolution and I was arguing against evolution. Actually it was a group project and I let the other students write the first half which they wanted to do on dinosaurs and I hijacked the rest paper so I could write something interesting. Some didn't appreciate it but gosh darn it those dullards didn't want to do anything of interest. But they were grateful since we got one of the highest grades in the class, but I digress). I was subverting the stupidity of culter in those papers but wasn't being a cocky jerk like I was in some of my classes.

Conservatives have to remember that the other side isn't just the enemy but they are also human and they have many of the same values we have (or should have) of improving society, helping the less fortunate, growing in knowledge, and so on.

As for the public school situation, not all of them are horrible and some are definitely better than others. Sure at some schools, one of every 2 or 3 girls ends up pregnant, and you have teachers that encouraging kids to go out and experiment, at my school though, I recall my senior year that there was a couple of underclassmen girls who were pregnant. And perhaps I was too much of a geek and outsider to know that it was going on, but it did not seem to me that there was horrendous licentious sex. To many girls had too much respect for themselves for that. I recall hearing about a friend of mine who lived in Florida would get permission from the teachers to go home to use the restroom because kids at the school, kids were frequently having sex in the bathroom. But stuff like that at my school was almost unheard of. The teachers were protective and I recall that on some long term band or choir trips to florida, If a guy and girl were caught in a hotel room together even just with the door closed, The teacher would fly them home at the expense of the parents.

As for sex ed, I think both perspectives of safe sex and abstinence were taught (not that I think there's any merit in teaching both perspectives as equals). I recall in my home ec class (It was a requirement for guys to take one), they had a speaker come from the crisis pregnancy center ( a pro life organization in my town) to present the case for abstenence. I had the pleasure of sitting with a bunch of jerks though who scoffed at the thing (but the girls were eating it up, and it only takes half the population for these things to work :grin: ). Later the speaker handed out contracts for everyone to sign to remain abstinent. And during this period I took one of the papers and proceeded to sign, and the fellas began to ridicule saying something to the effect "what wuss, I can't believe he's signing it" to which I replied "I'm not signing this for myself, I'm putting your name down here." So the status of the butticus of the joke was shifted to one who deserved it more. (I didn't really keep my views on sex a big secret, but amongst some folks whom I held no respect with, particularly a few of the pea brained jocks, It wasn't worth it to be vocal).

If you aren't fortunate enough to live in school system like that, If your husband would consider moving, you might find another school system that was better.


One strength that public schools have over home school and many smaller private schools is training in the arts. This is especially felt in arts programs that excel when they can pick from a large student body or just have a large program to being with. This is the case with your music programs like band and choir. Some home schooling mothers from my church would often ask how my mom how her daughters got to be such good musicians. (both went to wheaton on a music scholarship, which is sort of considered the harvard of private evangelical christian colleges today, and I say this not to brag but to give you an idea of how talented they are.) My ma told them that there was no substitute for choir program at the public school we went to.

Of course sports are another good strength of alot of public schools, though if your child is signed up for the arts, like band and choir, it was the case that the school aranges the schedual such that you're put in classes with quality students and when I was signed up for both band and choir, I found that my social life improved dramatically. Your placed in classes with more of the honor students, which was the case for me even though I didn't take any honor classes. I was a c average student. Of course you still get placed with jocks, but they're the quality ones who aren't royal jerks.

Private schools also have their problems. I have a friend who went to a private school and he thought the students were just becoming worse hellians and jerks. And combine that with overly sensitive administrators who fire good teachers because they weren't fundamentalistic enough or because some rich kids parents didn't like the teacher, you've got yourself and institution that's gonna turn out a few jaded students.

quite honestly, for alot of kids, I'd say it would be better to send them to a christian college than a christian high school. That's where they are going to be exposed to some of the best christian thinking in the acedemic world.

[themuzicman]

Today @ 02:14 PM post located here (http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=285407#post285407)
elysian:

I'd like to isolate my son from some of the little heathens he goes to school with! Unfortunately whether we homeschool or not we have to let our kids out in society.

Yeah, but you don't have to give them to teachers who will attempt to indoctrinate them with the liberal lies and expose them to 5year old kids whose only morality is to beat someone up, teaching your kids the same code.

Michael

[elysian]

Today @ 02:48 PM post located here (http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=285519#post285519)
themuzicman:



Yeah, but you don't have to give them to teachers who will attempt to indoctrinate them with the liberal lies and expose them to 5year old kids whose only morality is to beat someone up, teaching your kids the same code.

Michael

I certainly agree. I will readily admit I had some wonderful teachers- my 8th grade history teacher, my government teacher (who encouraged debate...and encouraged us to discover for ourselves our political/social beliefs) my senior English teacher are good examples. I had some abysmal teachers as well- one who couldn't get through a 45 minute class without taking at least two smoke breaks, another who couldn't control the class and got locked in the storage closet at least once a week, the teachers who would stand by and watch me get beaten in the hallways because they didn't want to "get involved."

It is hard for a teacher to be a conservative. In the school system my mother works for teachers were openly chastised by their unions if it were found out they were 1. Republican (in Ohio you can't vote in primary elections unless you declare a party-or openly decline a party affiliation, in which case you cannot vote for candidates in a primary) or 2. voted against any school levy. Some teachers ended up losing their jobs because of their political convictions, and others (mostly Roman Catholics) are trying to get out of the union because their union donates to liberal political candidates (namely abortion and gay rights supporters.)

There are conservative teachers. My son's 5th grade teacher (and she's a wonderful person) also goes to our church. She says her heart bleeds for the way teachers cannot openly talk. Yet if she were liberal she would not be reprimanded for promoting liberal causes.

Sigh....

[Patroclus]

I was homeschooled for eleven years; now I teach private high school. California, the state in which I teach, is ranked 48th in the country (last I checked) for quality education. I wish that we paid more taxes to the public schools. A teacher that I know who works out of a local public school told me that she recently learned that her freshman students did not know syllables. Furthermore, though you may disagree with Catholic faith, the quality of education, in general, at a Catholic school is very high. Their assumption is that religious training takes place in the home and the parish, therefore they do not worry about the trappings of sacrificing certain facets of education to make room for Bible classes.

[elysian]

My husband and I DID move to put our son in a better school. Columbus inner-city schools are absolutely abysmal. The school system he's in now is one of the better public school systems in Ohio. There are some advantages to it- they do have a high standard of accountability and academic achievement. My son is learning science, language skills, world history, math, etc. and by and large I'm satisfied with what's being taught.

The main objection I have are there are three thought systems being taught in his school (and in all public schools in Ohio) that I do disagree with because they are presented as fact rather than opinion or theory and only one side is presented:

Evolution-as-fact. Evolutionary theory has quite a few missing pieces. To teach evolution as fact is poor science. I agree that the creation account in Genesis may be metaphor and allegory but to discount the very real possibility that there is Someone behind creation isn't very scientific. Things just don't "BANG" and appear. That doesn't make sense. Evolution-as-fact was also being taught when I was in public school as well.

"Alternative lifestyles" are just another choice, and the infamous "sex is OK as long as you're using a condom." *Try again!* The physical realities of sex, including birth control should be taught, but in their entirety- which methods are abortifacient, and the success and failure rate of all methods. Venereal diseases and AIDS should also enter into that discussion as these are potential biological consequences of sex. Abstinence should be stressed as the ONLY way to completely avoid disease (best from a health standpoint.) I'll cover the non-biology part of the discussion at home, as well as deviant behavior, thank you.

Militant Environmentalism- Same principle as "evolution-as-fact." Global warming is a theory, as well as the "sky is falling" environmentalist claims. We don't have enough recorded history on weather patterns to discern the true impact of human activity on the atmosphere! These concepts are presented as facts not theories. I don't disagree with teaching kids good stewardship- recycling, reusing, being mindful of the environment- but when it starts turning to nature worship I start to become concerned. Last year's Earth Day festivities were particularly unnerving- involving a program and dance to "honor the earth."

Anyway, my son is a good critical thinker. He asks the teachers questions that are "outside the box" and makes them think as well. I remember getting in trouble for exactly the same thing.




:hi:

[Esther]

It is good to see that there are conservative, Christian public school parents who are involved in their kids' education. I have told friends of mine who send their kids to school that I admire them for keeping on top of their kids schooling like that. I think they are probably as busy as I am because of all the unteaching they have to do on top of overseeing regular homework.

I'm not trying to start something here. This is somewhat off topic but being a homeschool parent I am compelled to defend my way of life.

Homeschoolers are not isolated. Homeschoolers aren't the ones who are forced to sit in a room full of people their own age, day in and day out for 9 months out of the year for approximately 13 years. Homeschoolers are also not the ones with the major socialization issues. You don't hear of too many delinquent or crazed homeschool kids. I'm sure they're out there. You had better believe a homeschooler going postal would make the evening news. There have been so many school shootings and yet you don't hear much about the socialization factor.

*Esther steps down from her soap box.*

I do realize the intent of your post was not to slam homeschooling but I couldn't not say something.

My hat's off to you for being involved in your son's education!

Sincerely,

Esther

[geebob]

Homeschoolers are not isolated. Homeschoolers aren't the ones who are forced to sit in a room full of people their own age, day in and day out for 9 months out of the year for approximately 13 years. Homeschoolers are also not the ones with the major socialization issues. You don't hear of too many delinquent or crazed homeschool kids. I'm sure they're out there. You had better believe a homeschooler going postal would make the evening news. There have been so many school shootings and yet you don't hear much about the socialization factor.

I think all the different options for education out there all have there strengths and weeknesses. A blanket statement for any one of them just will not do.

I know of homeschoolers who are national merit scholars as well as ones who's parents thought good homeschooling meant teaching there daughters nothing more than to sow and keep house (not that these aren't good things, but they are not to substitute a real education for the purpose of connecting one to the complexities of our world)

I certainly agree with you on the socialization issue. Publick and private schools can be terrible places for social developement. I gotta laugh at that arguement with all the cliques, the bullies, the shallow fairwhether friends that come in just about any school. Sure dealing with such people is part of dealing with the world, but real community is far more important than just learning to cope with the obnoxious jerks.

has anyone ever stopped to think that schools actually damage people socially?

Of course we live in a broken world and we can expect to run into this where ever we go.

In light of this though, It really irritates me that some folks agree with making it hard for parents to homeschool. It should be up to the parent to decide how to educate their children, not some stupid overbearing impersonal government. I don't mind if they mandate standards though, like requiring the kids to reach a certain amount of achievement at various ages. I think society has a right to have some expectations for parents. families are not autonomous but are a crucial part of the world we live in.

[Stephen]

Hey,
I've been in all areas of schooling, but on and off I'd homeschooled for about 7 years, though for 4 years I'd go to school 2 days and homeschool 3.

The social part of me looks back on that and says I hated it, but maturity and educationally, homeschool was great for me. I went into normal school far more advanced than most kids there, as when I was homeschooled I was taught a grade level ahead.

I didn't turn out to be a recluse, I wasn't a poor nerd beaten up by all the bullies, I just happened to have gotten a better education because of homeschool. As I've been homeschooled, and have homeschooled friends, I can say honestly that homeschoolers seem to be just as, if nort more social than public-schoolers.
Then again, private school and public school also have had their benefits.

Over all, I'd say let kids be in the schooling they are most comfortable in. If it isn't corrupting them, and isn't dragging them behind, they'll do much better in a setting they most enjoy