Divine Retribution

[pete]

I am wandering what the majority of people that log onto this site believe about divine retribution. My take is that although God once punished because of sin(old testament) there is now no need for punishment of sin because of the payment Christ offered on the cross once for all. Some may say that hardship and trials come from God's reaction to our sin and we could avoid such occurances if we only avoid sinning. I do not agree that any of us can avoid sinning, in fact I would say that at no time are any of us sinless in the mind set of our daily walk. I believe that no matter how little of my sin others see or even that I allow myself to see, I am still guilty of all sin because that is the way the law works. Thus the need for such a Savior as Christ who could in turn become my sin for me and pay the penalty of all my actions that do not line up with God's standard. This would also entail that when God looks at me He sees Christ and not just in a sense of one that cleans me up, but as if I had never done anything wrong.(that's the meaning of justified) In fact, I think this definition of justification would logically conclude that if God was to see my sin, then He would have to first see Christ committing the sin. To me that is proposterous. In James, 1 Peter, and Hebrews we have those authors ideas about hardships in our life. It says that we are to consider them joy, or realize that they are there to produce growth and maturity. I would conclude from this that God sees what we need to start instead of what we need to stop. This means he sees where our faith lacks and not necessarily where our sin prospers. Therefore He places trials in our life so that we will grow from them and so that we will be perfected by the author of our faith. I would love to be able to respond to any feedback and I appreciate that you have read my speel.

[Leroy]

Hi Pete, :hi:


pete;
I am wandering what the majority of people that log onto this site believe about divine retribution. My take is that although God once punished because of sin(old testament) there is now no need for punishment of sin because of the payment Christ offered on the cross once for all.
The bible says the Christ paid for our sins past present and future, without Christ, punishment would be the ultimate old or new testament. God is holy and he can’t reside with anything unholy, thus the need for the redemptive blood of Jesus on the cross. I think the punishment that your talking about is the retribution for our sins on this earth.

pete;
Some may say that hardship and trials come from God's reaction to our sin and we could avoid such occurances if we only avoid sinning.
I think the better analogy is not Gods reaction to our sin but, God letting our own bad choices (sin) play out in our lives, so that we can see the total inability to run our own lives, then see the need that we have for God, and Him alone. God does not save us from the civil or criminal penalties of our sins, we still go to jail etc., He saves us from the ultimate destruction.

pete;
I do not agree that any of us can avoid sinning, in fact I would say that at no time are any of us sinless in the mind set of our daily walk. I believe that no matter how little of my sin others see or even that I allow myself to see, I am still guilty of all sin because that is the way the law works. Thus the need for such a Savior as Christ who could in turn become my sin for me and pay the penalty of all my actions that do not line up with God's standard.
Well said, I agree!

pete;
This would also entail that when God looks at me He sees Christ and not just in a sense of one that cleans me up, but as if I had never done anything wrong.(that's the meaning of justified)
I would agree that God sees the covering of Christ as he looks at one redeemed by Christ, but the term “Justification” has a meaning much deeper and more complex then that. Thomas Watson said, “ Justification is the very hinge and pillar of Christianity. An error about justification is dangerous, like a defect in a foundation. Justification by Christ is a spring of the water of Life. To have the poison of corrupt doctrine cast into this spring is damnable.
The meaning of the term Justification does not mean, to make righteous, or to forgive, or pardon, or to pretend the quilt person is innocent, it means, to pronounce not quilty, or acquitted, to declare righteous, R. C. Sproul said, “ Justification is an act whereby He declares unjust sinners to be just”
Jesus died the substitutionary death for our sins.


pete;
This means he sees where our faith lacks and not necessarily where our sin prospers. Therefore He places trials in our life so that we will grow from them and so that we will be perfected by the author of our faith.

God says He will never let us be tempted more then we can handle, He will always provide us with a way out, and remember, God is not the tempter, our own evil desires are.
Are Justification is immediate at the point of salvation, our sanctification lasts until our physical death. Justification is objective, sanctification is subjective. “Sanctification is the process, beginning at regeneration and ending at death, by which God morally transforms the believer into the image of Christ on the basis of God’s grace by means of faith in Christ’s finished work on the cross.” (C.V.)

I hope this answers some of your questions

Leroy :cheers: