Sleepover at Michael Jackson's!

[elysian]

My son is 12 and there is absolutely no way I could justify this scenario:

Accepting an invitation to a sleep over (or any other activity for that matter) at the home of a 45 year old man who has been accused of pedophilia and who has paid "hush money" to avoid prosecution for said offense. Absolutely no way.

The other thing that amazes me about this is nobody is saying anything about the kid(s)' parents. Hell-o! What is going on in their heads?
"Oh, Timmy, have fun at Mr. Jackson's house! Don't forget your Scooby-Doo glow-in-the dark condoms!"

One would think the kids would have had objections. The first thing my son says when one mentions The Gloved One is: "Mom, he is SO GAY." Now, perhaps he would change his mind and want to go to the ranch if he were inticed by such things as horse back riding, amusement rides, a swimming pool and petting zoo, but I'm leaning toward "these kids were forced" as a pretty good explanation. Which means their parents had to have known about it and condoned it.

Now there is a possibility that Jacko is innocent or at the very least doesn't realize that certain activities between middle-aged men and little boys are not appropriate. Admittedly his childhood was a disaster, and I feel sorry for him for that- but as an adult he has the responsibility to keep his hands to himself- or at least off of innocent little boys. I'm sure there's an adult woman out there somewhere who would indulge him for free.

How can we expect predators to keep their hands off of our kids if we aren't paying attention to where they are and who they're with?

[Rubia Warren]

:no:
Jacko is not innocent. And you can't get so much negative publicity and criticisms for so many years without examining yourself for half a second to figure out if what they say is true or not, that you do wrong things.
The thing with him is that he has thought about it, and instead of taking a good look at himself, he has taken a look, and justified himself in his own mind. Which is why he always claims that nobody understands him, he's being picked on, etc. because the only one who buys his justifications are him in his own mind.

[geebob]

consider that plenty of people are willing to defend his innocence. They can't believe such a talented fella would do such a thing and their fandome makes it easy to let their kids go over their.

I also suspect some of the parents are poor with dreary lives and to have such a celebrity pay attention to their kids makes them feel special.

[elysian]

Here's a thought, give pedophiles the option of prison (becoming "Bubba's Little Puppy") or punishment under the auspices of the Rev. Fred Phelps and the Westboro Baptist Church.

In summary, sodomites are wicked and sinners before the Lord exceedingly (Gen. 13:13), are violent and doom nations (Gen. 19:1-25; Jgs. 19), are abominable to God (Lev. 18:22), are worthy of death for their vile, depraved, unnatural sex practices (Lev. 20:13; Rom. 1:32), are called dogs because they are filthy, impudent and libidinous (Deut. 23:17,18; Mat. 7:6; Phil. 3:2), produce by their very presence in society a kind of mass intoxication from their wine made from grapes of gall from the vine of Sodom and the fields of Gomorrah which poisons society's mores with the poison of dragons and the cruel venom of asps (Deut. 32:32,33), declare their sin and shame on their countenance (Isa. 3:9), are shameless and unable to blush (Jer. 6:15), are workers of iniquity and hated by God (Psa. 5:5), are liars and murderers (Jn. 8:44), are filthy and lawless (2 Pet. 2:7,8), are natural brute beasts (2 Pet. 2:12), are dogs eating their own vomit and sows wallowing in their own feces (2 Pet. 2:22), will proliferate at the end of the world bringing final judgment on mankind (Lk. 17:28-30), have been finally given up by God to uncleanness dishonoring their own bodies among themselves, to vile affections, and to a reprobate mind such that they cannot think straight about anything (Rom. 1:23-28), have wholly given themselves over to fornication and gone after strange flesh (Jude 7), must be pulled as faggots from the fire (Jude 23), and have no hope of Heaven unless they repent (Rev. 22:15), which they can't do in their prideful state (Jer. 6:15). They need to hear this truth if they are to have any hope of penitence, faith in Jesus Christ and salvation (I Timothy 4:2-4). from the "godhatesfags.com" website

So much for peace and love...dogs eating vomit and pigs wallowing in feces...OK- sounds like appropriate punishment for pedophiles to me!

[attachment]

elysian, the attachment was not appropriate and has been removed, thanks - Dee Dee

[geebob]

I don't know what to think about the death penalty for pedophilia. Perhaps, if the death penalty is right for murders, I can understand why it should be done to pedophiles.

but I'm not as confident about the death penalty as I used to be.


Now, should pedaphiles be the object of our hatred and perpetual venom? certainly we don't do enough to keep children safe from them. 3 years of prison is absurd. 8 years of prison is absurd. But should we christian's pray for their souls?

Keep in mind that we celebrate in scripture a murderer and an adulteror. This man killed another man after sleeping with that man's wife! what a wretched mongrol! What an abomination! And yet, our savior was honored by others as they considered him an heir to this man's throne, calling him the "son of David".

Many people think that David was a luminary when he said "For you will not delight in sacrifice, or I would give it; you will not be pleased with a burnt offering."(psalm 51:16).

The fact is, there was no sacrifice that David could bring because there was no sacrifice that could be given for murder or adultry. The law made no such provision. The only fitting end was death.

[elysian]

I think that yes, even pedophiles can be saved eternally by God's grace, and Jesus died on the Cross as a sacrifice for even that sin. (because God doesn't categorize sin- if you're guilty of one you may as well be guilty of them all- we all are sinners who fall short of God's glory!)

Yet eternal salvation and temporal punishment are very different things. Getting right with God is one thing- confession and repentance- but that does not negate the need for a temporal penalty. In some instances, for the good of society at large, the punishment can and should be temporal death- 1. out of respect for the life of the victim(s) and as recompense for their lives and their families' lives that have been taken or ruined or both, and 2. as assurance that this person will never victimize another or remain a threat to society, and 3. as a deterrent and an affirmation to others that the behavior in question will not be tolerated.

"Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. Consequently, he who rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and he will commend you. For he is God's servant to do you good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword for nothing. He is God's servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also because of conscience. Romans 13:1-5

Capital punishment is a function of the state, to keep order in society. There are crimes so heinous that warrant this ultimate penalty because they involve either the taking of a life or the destruction of a life. Murder is one of those crimes as in my opinion, are rape, incest and child molestation.

The wages of sin are death- we are ALL sinners and therefore subject to temporal death. In the instance of capital punishment the state simply causes temporal death to ensue a little sooner than it would have if left to "nature." Yes we should pray for the eternal salvation of EVERY sinner, including death row inmates, including those who have committed heinous crimes. But this does not absolve them from temporal punishment.

[Rahab]

11-19-2003 @ 07:39 PM post located here (http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=297949#post297949)
r00bz:

:no:
Jacko is not innocent. And you can't get so much negative publicity and criticisms for so many years without examining yourself for half a second to figure out if what they say is true or not, that you do wrong things.
The thing with him is that he has thought about it, and instead of taking a good look at himself, he has taken a look, and justified himself in his own mind. Which is why he always claims that nobody understands him, he's being picked on, etc. because the only one who buys his justifications are him in his own mind.

It is true that child molesters tend to find any justification for their actions. In the early 90's as I still lived in south east Ga., I recall choking on my hot dog as M. Jackson appeared on TV quoting scriptures to illustrate his "love" for children. The one that struck me was "let the little children come to me".
How in his tormented mind he could assimilitate Christ's declaration to his definition of loving little kids was beyong my understanding.
There are so many other things that M. Jackson has done in public that led me to question his mental health. In that sense, and if he were indeed suffering of a mental illness, we cannot expect of him to deal with the reality as we do. His reasoning can be so impaired that he cannot examine his own actions and discern what is dysfunctional in his behavior.
Such a state of denial can be caused by various mental illnesses. I am not excusing his lack of accountability. I am simply exploring the difference between a person who has full reasoning ability and one who may not be able to access that reasoning function of the brain.
It is my hope that as he is now facing consequences for his actions, outside of legal consequences and sentencing, he will be recieving psychiatric help.
I believe that any dysfunctional behavior deserves some chance at rehabilitation and recovery.