regarding reading slash fiction

[Tapioca]

I have some friends (non-Christians) who enjoy slash fan fiction. I don't want to talk them out of that, it's their choice, but I'd sort of like more help or thoughts on this subject for myself...so I don't get drawn into it.

I don't want to sin against God and I don't want to do anything I shouldn't. It seems wrong to me, but it's hard to find a good Christian perspective on this.

It would be nice to learn a good basis for avoiding this stuff, explicit or not, more than just my own feelings that it's wrong.

If this is in the wrong forum, could somebody move it for me? A place that talks about reading seemed like the right area to me. :smile:

p.s. Slash means fiction involving two men in a romantic or sexual relationship.

[Sparko]

really? I thought it was about murder and violence. Guess I learned something new.

If it is about gay sexual relationships then that is reason enough for Christians to avoid it. The bible is pretty clearly against such things.

[DuraGizer]

Fan fiction in general is bad news. I don't want to imagine what slash might be like. :no:

[Tapioca]

Well....I ran across this link, that is trying to show that it's good for Christians...

http://www.trickster.org/symposium/symp165.htm

It didn't seem quite right to me, but I wasn't absolutely sure it was wrong. Guess that's one of the reasons I'm here...

[Sparko]

That is nothing but rationalization, and not even a very good one.

Proverbs 4:14 Do not set foot on the path of the wicked
or walk in the way of evil men.

15 Avoid it, do not travel on it;
turn from it and go on your way.

16 For they cannot sleep till they do evil;
they are robbed of slumber till they make someone fall.

17 They eat the bread of wickedness
and drink the wine of violence.

18 The path of the righteous is like the first gleam of dawn,
shining ever brighter till the full light of day.

19 But the way of the wicked is like deep darkness;
they do not know what makes them stumble.

20 My son, pay attention to what I say;
listen closely to my words.

21 Do not let them out of your sight,
keep them within your heart;

22 for they are life to those who find them
and health to a man's whole body.

23 Above all else, guard your heart,
for it is the wellspring of life.

24 Put away perversity from your mouth;
keep corrupt talk far from your lips.

25 Let your eyes look straight ahead,
fix your gaze directly before you.

26 Make level [b] paths for your feet
and take only ways that are firm.

27 Do not swerve to the right or the left;
keep your foot from evil.


as far as the bible not condemning homosexuality, all you have to do is read Romans 1

--
18The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness, 19since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.

21For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools 23and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like mortal man and birds and animals and reptiles.

24Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. 25They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.

26Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. 27In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion.

[Tapioca]

Thank you for your thoughts and especially the scriptures. :smile:

I used to think fan fiction was all poorly written porn. A lot of it is actually quite good, but a lot of it is bad, too. I need to use good judgment and not get drawn into something bad.

I do hang out with fandom pals who see nothing wrong with slash, but they respect my decision not to read it.

I do feel a little tempted / curious sometimes, so I will keep these scriptures in mind when I am!! :smile:

Thanks for being here to ask.

[Manwë Súlimo]

"Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable--if anything is excellent or praiseworthy--think about such things...."

I don't see how slash fiction can be anything but porn literature. It's bad, hm'kay? There's plenty of good literature out there to read that nobody has to feel led to resort to reading such trash. It doesn't even have to be Christian lit. I'm a huge Tom Clancy fan and a fan of those like him. Political thrillers are a real page turner.

[lao tzu]

"Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable--if anything is excellent or praiseworthy--think about such things...."

Wouldn't that mean you'd have to ignore all the horny doofuses, too? Good thing for you I'm a heathen.


I don't see how slash fiction can be anything but porn literature. It's bad, hm'kay? There's plenty of good literature out there to read that nobody has to feel led to resort to reading such trash. It doesn't even have to be Christian lit. I'm a huge Tom Clancy fan and a fan of those like him. Political thrillers are a real page turner.

Sex is bad. Murder is good.

:no:

Personally, I'm fine with Clancy despite the fact that he's not "true, noble, right, pure, lovely, admirable, excellent, or praiseworthy." I suspect you are, too. I can't say I'll ever be interested in erotic fiction involving batman and robin, or Kirk and Spock, but I'm not going to pretend it's any less noble than Clancy, just because it doesn't fit my interests.

As ever, Jesse

[Tapioca]

Wouldn't that mean you'd have to ignore all the horny doofuses, too? Good thing for you I'm a heathen.



Sex is bad. Murder is good.

:no:

Personally, I'm fine with Clancy despite the fact that he's not "true, noble, right, pure, lovely, admirable, excellent, or praiseworthy." I suspect you are, too. I can't say I'll ever be interested in erotic fiction involving batman and robin, or Kirk and Spock, but I'm not going to pretend it's any less noble than Clancy, just because it doesn't fit my interests.

As ever, Jesse

I don't read highly violent stuff most of the time. I think there's probably a difference though. Most people reading violent stuff aren't tempted to do the violence, but sexual content can be much more of a stumbling block for some people.

Thanks for your thoughts, everyone. :smile:

[Manwë Súlimo]

Sex is bad.

Oh, come on. Even a gerbil could tell that I never said that. Do better next time.


Murder is good.

Nope. Killing sometimes is good, though.

[LMNtal]

Ah, hello. Um. This thread has been dead for about a year now, but I found it through google and I feel that I have something to add to the discussion.

Firstly, I would argue against your interpretations of the scripture in regards to homosexuality. What Marnie fails to do is back up her claims, but they can be supported by the original Hebrew text. I'm not saying that the bible condones homosexuality, but it's not as clear-cut as the translators would have you think.

Secondly, and more in line with the original intent of this thread: are you aware of the existence of bible slash? There's not too much, but it's definitely out there. Lots of Jesus/Judas.

This post may be deleted; I have no idea how strict the mods are here. And yes, I did join just to post this (I'm really mature). Yes, it is quite possible that I'm just a troll. You are the hornet's nest and I am the stick. But I looked at the guidelines and they said that debating was okay, so this may be left alone. And, if anyone does reply to this, because people always speak differently when they know, just bear in mind that I am a lesbian. There's no point in replying to tell me how misguided or sinful I am, because a) I don't care, and b) see my earlier comments about homosexuality in the bible. And if you feel the need to quote scripture at me, rest assured that I can and will quote it right back.

[Tapioca]

Hullo. Considering I joined just to ask this question, that's cool with me. :) (Wow, 2010? It's been AGES!)

I have read some interesting things since then, so I sort of know what you mean by "not as clear cut" as it sounds. I've read things on both sides of the issue and I think I've learned a lot, but I still totally don't have everything figured out. I'm kind of okay with that now. I don't know how else to say what I mean.

I had a dream last night where I was with a bunch of angry Christians and angry homosexuals debating and being snarky with one another. I was so uncomfortable with both sides of it. I tried talking to people and saying basically that we have to be kind to one another even if we don't agree. That we should aspire even to "love our enemies" not just condemn or judge or be snarky. It was a frustrating experience because NO ONE listened. :/ At least in my dream I *tried.* In real life, I tend to feel confused or attacked and just keep my mouth shut about all these things.

on the slash front--

My own, newest place of discovery regarding slash isn't likely to quite suit anyone. At least for now, I feel that God doesn't condemn me for reading these things if I do, but that for my own balance, I'm generally happier if I focus on other things. (Sex is a weird subject for me anyway.) I do feel I have more freedom in my spiritual life now, as I seem to have always had a very "rules" based theology (unfortunately). Letting go of the rules of "You can't read this" or "you have to be afraid of this" is freeing. At the same time, drawing closer to God and learning more about Him helps me to make good decisions that aren't based on Rules but on God and what is healthy for me.

That sounds so strange when I write it, like I've become the "liberal Christian" I was raised to abhor, but in my own self I feel God is freeing me from some of the rule-based things I grew up with, and it's much HEALTHIER for me.

Perhaps I truly am in some way misguided, and I do frequently pray that God will reveal the truth in my life and in others' where things are wrong. (There are many areas; we're all human, right?)

It's late. I'm losing my thread of thought, and this is long enough. But know that I post thoughtfully, I don't condemn anyone, and if anyone does condemn me for what I said here, I'll be saddened, but I'm growing to the point where I don't let other people's anger define me anymore.




Ah, hello. Um. This thread has been dead for about a year now, but I found it through google and I feel that I have something to add to the discussion.

Firstly, I would argue against your interpretations of the scripture in regards to homosexuality. What Marnie fails to do is back up her claims, but they can be supported by the original Hebrew text. I'm not saying that the bible condones homosexuality, but it's not as clear-cut as the translators would have you think.

Secondly, and more in line with the original intent of this thread: are you aware of the existence of bible slash? There's not too much, but it's definitely out there. Lots of Jesus/Judas.

This post may be deleted; I have no idea how strict the mods are here. And yes, I did join just to post this (I'm really mature). Yes, it is quite possible that I'm just a troll. You are the hornet's nest and I am the stick. But I looked at the guidelines and they said that debating was okay, so this may be left alone. And, if anyone does reply to this, because people always speak differently when they know, just bear in mind that I am a lesbian. There's no point in replying to tell me how misguided or sinful I am, because a) I don't care, and b) see my earlier comments about homosexuality in the bible. And if you feel the need to quote scripture at me, rest assured that I can and will quote it right back.

[LMNtal]

Eek, now you've made me feel bad. I was mostly just curious as to people's thoughts about bible slash, which I find greatly entertaining, but I worded my response really aggressively. It wasn't a very mature thing to do and I'm kind of ashamed of myself.

I think it's cool that you've come to a place of acceptance. Unitarians are super liberal, so I guess I've never had to worry about anything like that and I can't understand what it's like. I must admit my response was triggered mostly by shock, since where I live (Seattle) there are very few Christians who honestly follow the rules. I don't really know how to deal with more conservative views. There's definitely fault on both sides of the gay/religious conflict; the overwhelming opinion of my peers is that conservative Christians are ignorant bigots. I certainly don't agree with many Christians's view of homosexuality and I do sometimes feel persecuted by people whom I believe to be in the wrong, but I tend to forget that members of groups whose opinions differ from mine are individual people who may not share those views and are generally nice people, despite our disagreements.

Anyway, I felt kind of bad for barging in here just to cause trouble, so I guess I want to apologize for my actions. Everything I said still stands, but I regret the way I said it.

Reading over this, it's clear that my thoughts are just about as organized as yours, so I'm going to stop rambling.

[KingsGambit]

Welcome to TWeb, LMNtal, and do stick around.

[Tapioca]

Thanks for your reply. :) I don't want you to feel bad, and really, you didn't offend me. :) It's just whenever I sort of put myself out there, I guess I expect the worse from both sides. It's happened before so I sort of brace myself, a little worried I've waved a red flag in front of someone accidentally.

And honestly, I can't blame you for feeling a little defensive at times. I get defensive about stuff if I feel judged, even if it's just something little (and not a big part of me).

I still have lots to learn about how to get along with people and probably lots of other things. Since my childhood I was sort of scared and freaked by anything "gay." It's only recently that God's been helping me (I believe) so that I can look at PEOPLE first instead of labels like gay, straight, young, old, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, or atheist. (I thought I was already pretty mature but it turns out I had a ways to go--and probably still do!!!)

Anyway, thanks for your reply. :) I found it interesting. :)

I hope you'll stay around if you think you'd like it here. I've only posted a bit over a couple of years, so I don't know if I can recommend it or not, though I found some interesting answers when I had a question about Judaism.

Oh, and regarding Bible slash--personally, I wouldn't be interested in it. For me anything that's sort of sacred (the Bible literally, in other cases, things I grew up with like Sherlock Holmes), is something I'd rather not read anything "non-canon" or pairing-related for. But that's just me.

Take care. :)

Wishing you well,

-Tapioca


Eek, now you've made me feel bad. I was mostly just curious as to people's thoughts about bible slash, which I find greatly entertaining, but I worded my response really aggressively. It wasn't a very mature thing to do and I'm kind of ashamed of myself.

I think it's cool that you've come to a place of acceptance. Unitarians are super liberal, so I guess I've never had to worry about anything like that and I can't understand what it's like. I must admit my response was triggered mostly by shock, since where I live (Seattle) there are very few Christians who honestly follow the rules. I don't really know how to deal with more conservative views. There's definitely fault on both sides of the gay/religious conflict; the overwhelming opinion of my peers is that conservative Christians are ignorant bigots. I certainly don't agree with many Christians's view of homosexuality and I do sometimes feel persecuted by people whom I believe to be in the wrong, but I tend to forget that members of groups whose opinions differ from mine are individual people who may not share those views and are generally nice people, despite our disagreements.

Anyway, I felt kind of bad for barging in here just to cause trouble, so I guess I want to apologize for my actions. Everything I said still stands, but I regret the way I said it.

Reading over this, it's clear that my thoughts are just about as organized as yours, so I'm going to stop rambling.

[lao tzu]

This post may be deleted; I have no idea how strict the mods are here. And yes, I did join just to post this (I'm really mature). Yes, it is quite possible that I'm just a troll. You are the hornet's nest and I am the stick. But I looked at the guidelines and they said that debating was okay, so this may be left alone. And, if anyone does reply to this, because people always speak differently when they know, just bear in mind that I am a lesbian. There's no point in replying to tell me how misguided or sinful I am, because a) I don't care, and b) see my earlier comments about homosexuality in the bible. And if you feel the need to quote scripture at me, rest assured that I can and will quote it right back.

I <3 this post.

Yeah, any graphic references to Bible slash would be modded. But you really have to push it to get an entire post disappeared. Nobody's going to jump on you for being a lesbian, or being a lesbian stripper for that matter. (Yeah, we've had one.) One of my pals from the old IIDB posted here regularly for a while, too, under the screen name Gaytheist (which was unintentionally ambiguous; she meant to stress she was gay and an atheist, not gay and a theist). The only person who ever went off on her was Supersport, a pugilistic, self-described "redneck landlord" with inferior education on biology (butterfly wombs, anyone?), and other bad habits. I've never seen any other lesbian catch flack for being a lesbian.

The mods dropped the hammer hard on old Spurty, or what passes for hard around here. He got points, which, believe me, are hard to come by. You need to collect ten of them to get a temporary ban, and repeat many times many before you're totally removed from the club. (Or keep on winning the war of amusing wits for years like my old buddy LGM. *candle*)

Supersport's pointing was classic. He'd been mining the literature for biology to distort, and there came a question about whether he'd abused the intent of the author of the research. Gaytheist searched out the researcher, and wrote him, whence he promptly registered, and posted once — demanding that Supersport stop abusing his research, with a quick summary of his actual position and how it'd been distorted. It was scene that Woody Allen would have loved. Pegged to the wall, Supersport took the option of going after Gaytheist by dredging up his best homophobic screed while the rest of us chimed in with gales of laughter.

So no, don't worry about posting here as a lesbian. Don't get me wrong. Most of the staff do see homosexuality as a sin, but it's not top of the list for them, and there's even been a gay mod (in orientation, not practice). Come on back and stay a while. I think I like you, and that's a good sign you'll fit right in. We're rough, rude, and socially unacceptable, but this board lets you post. Hell, I'm an atheist, and they've been letting me wander freely around here for almost a decade now.

As ever, Jesse