Bah! Humbug!

[mossrose]

My husband and I struggled with the "overdoneness" of Christmas during the years that our children were small. I don't know if we were successful in teaching them that Christmas is not about how many gifts each person gets or the value in monetary terms of those gifts. Oh, I know we taught them that the birthday of Jesus is why we celebrate. But there still seems to always be a huge pile of presents under that tree every year. (That's mostly my fault, I am afraid....I always want to spend money on my kids....)

Short of giving up and giving in to the "spend like there's no tomorrow minset", or becoming a total Scrooge(hence the thread title), I would like to know how some of you have fared in this area.

Are your children still small enough to be satisfied with the box and wrapping paper the gift comes in? Are you dealing with teenagers who just want cash? Or are your children somewhere in between these ages who want everything they see on every tv commercial since January 01 of this year? Or, are you like me, who still can't resist buying a bunch of stuff for the kids, even though they are grown and can buy their own stuff?

Have any of you stopped giving presents to your children and give toys to the local Santa's Anonymous instead so that children in your area who can not expect a "normal" Christmas will be given at least one gift this year?

Do any of you volunteer at a soup kitchen on Christmas Day with your kids, so that they can see how much they have, and how little some others have?

Have any of you made it a habit each year to have each of your children give up one of their new toys or possessions so that it can be given to a needy child?

I want to know what ideas and solutions that you have come up with to teach your kids the meaning behind the gift giving.

[Patroclus]

I am no parent, so please take what I have to say with a grain of salt.

Michael Taussing (a complete heathen) writes in his book Defacement about the Christmas holiday. He does not say a lot. But, what he does say opens up a lot of questions. He writes that Christmas is built for children with an inherent value that they attach to Santa Claus: the ultimate giver of gifts to good boys and girls, the world over. This is how Christmas is effaced. His premise is that when an object is defaced the true value is realized. So, when the child learns the secret of Santa Claus, the child learns that the parents are the ultimate givers (and takers of) of gifts (and in that it is a lie, of life). After my sister and I learned "about" Santa Claus, my parents even called themselves "Mommy Claus" and "Daddy Claus" at Christmas time.

The problem here, in my opinion, is not about greed (though that is a symptom), nor is it about selfishness (though it is a symptom), but about the whole year of "earning" Christmas. I teach high school, and in many of my students I see a concept of expectation based on deservedness: "I did all the work, I deserve an A." Of course, this fits in beautifully with an American culture that values the "rights" of individuals. It isn't just that we are individuals, but that we deserve something based upon our very existence. Christmas is training grounds for children within this system. We remove the mask of Santa Claus for children to see parents. We remove the mask of parents for young adults and teens to see society.

Personally, I don't believe we can effectively teach the Santa Claus myth alongside the story of Christ. The intended result of either one is diametrically opposed to the other. With that being said, I also want to note that I am not bashing anybody's parenting skills. I do not believe that children are hopeless if they have been taught the Santa Claus myth. Instead, my point is that Santa Claus is an integral part of our culture, and that an introduction to Christmas through Santa Claus as the medium has inevitable negative results (though the results may vary for each child).

I am not sure that I have been very helpful. I just happen to think that the Santa Claus myth is very interesting on a sociological level.

[themuzicman]

Bah! Humbug!

[mossrose]

Personally, I don't believe we can effectively teach the Santa Claus myth alongside the story of Christ.

I agree with you on this point. And I am sorry that I didn't explain myself regarding this. We allowed our children to believe in Santa for a few years, but they learned at a very young age that Santa is not a real person in the way that western culture perceives him to be.

In our home, Jesus birthday was the main focus of our Christmases (sp?). Any gifts given were given as a picture of firstly, the free gift of God's Son to the world, and secondly, a reminder of the gifts that were given to the toddler Jesus by the magi. My kids were never taught that good behaviour all year was expected for them to be able to receive gifts at Christmas.

I value your input Patroclus. You have a great deal to share with us, since you see the result of parenting, good or bad, on a daily basis. Thanks for this insight here.

I guess what I am really looking for are practical ways in which we can teach our children that the materialistic Christmas is not what they should be focusing on. And that includes what we teach them about Santa, as well as the maxing out of our credit along the way.

[Patroclus]

I have an idea that I am not sure of. However, I think it would be interesting to reverse the traditional Christmas. Instead of giving gifts on Christmas, give gifts throughout the year when it is reasonable, appropriate, or whenever the occaision suits you. Then, on Christmas, make thank-you card for each member of the family.

[Rahab]

I went thru the same thought as yours as my children would spend an hour unwrapping that abundance of gifts. I would even "humbug" over the mountains of wrapping paper and try desperatly to save them for the following year.

Then one year, I declared " let us send presents for our family members and friends..... but let us give one another things we have made and share our desire to serve by offering one another hand made coupons". So... one coupon from my older daughter to do dishes for one week. My second daughter would "coupon me" with handling the yard. The cutest was my son...."unlimited hugs forever"...... I gave them crafts I made.
I thought of extending the service to friends or family who lived near by. A coupon for a meal delivered to their home. Watching their kids so they can go on a well deserved hubby wify romantic date. Cutting their grass.So many little things that will not end up in a drawer.

It teaches them to give of themselves and also has no financial restrictions.

[Penguin]

I for one will not tell my future kids any lies about imaginary north-pole residents, easter bunnies, or tooth fairies. I've heard too many kids ask that if santa isn't real, is Jesus real? I think it's sad. Bah Humbug to Santa! It's not his day. I don't care how "saintly" the real dude was, he's dead. Let him rest in peace. But Jesus is alive. And it's his birth I celebrate. And it's his birth my future kids will celebrate.

:smile:

[Undomiel]

However, I think it would be interesting to reverse the traditional Christmas. Instead of giving gifts on Christmas, give gifts throughout the year when it is reasonable, appropriate, or whenever the occaision suits you.


Patroclus! I always thought you looked like a hobbit! Now I have proof! On each person's birthday, they give presents to everyone else - that's the hobbit version. :D

I want to know what ideas and solutions that you have come up with to teach your kids the meaning behind the gift giving.

We were very poor for several years, so we taught them the value of money, first. lol It was unavoidable. Jesus was mentioned prolifically, and Santa was just a scary fat guy in a red suit. When i took my kids to meet him at christmas, they cried. He was scary! That huge beard and red suit, and ho ho ho. So I downplayed the santa thing. Then when they finally got old enough to appreciate the whole thing, they got into an argument about the existence of Santa. Suddenly, on the news, Santa was spotted by a news reporter, flying over someone's house. Well that's all it took, as far as they were concerned! There was no doubt about it. It said it on the news it must therefore be real. I used this to my advantage later on when trying to explain to them how the news people could occassionally tell slanted news stories for political reasons. *chuckle* Anyway...

Yeah, Christmas in a poor house was very different. We didn't do alot of celebrating. It was like just another day of the year, except we played cards, or Risk or Monopoly or Scrabble, and tried to at least get a turkey. Our kids have a very acute awareness of money, and it scares them half out of their wits, kinda like Santa use to do.

[Patroclus]

First of all, welcome, Penguin.

The problem, however, that you face with that is culture. Whether or not you teach your children about Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny or Tu-Pac, everybody else will. At that point, you will have a whole new bag of worms, and not just questions from your kids, but from angry parents whose kids have been demystified. How do you pla to deal with that?

[Penguin]

Well. I do plan on homeschooling for one thing. :smile:

[Patroclus]

..and going to church?

[mossrose]

Patroclus! I always thought you looked like a hobbit! Now I have proof! On each person's birthday, they give presents to everyone else - that's the hobbit version. :D

I have been trying for years to convince my children that they should give ME presents on their birthdays. After all, I went through all that hard work to bring them into the world on their birthday, I think I deserve a present!!! :soap:

Ahem. Thanks for your input guys. Keep the good ideas coming.


:offtopic: Undomiel, I absolutely ADORE your AV!!

[themuzicman]

We decided early on that we weren't going to give our kids the impression that we'd lied to them...

Michael

[Undomiel]

Yesterday @ 08:19 PM post located here (http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=321127#post321127)
mossrose:



I have been trying for years to convince my children that they should give ME presents on their birthdays. After all, I went through all that hard work to bring them into the world on their birthday, I think I deserve a present!!! :soap:

Ahem. Thanks for your input guys. Keep the good ideas coming.


:offtopic: Undomiel, I absolutely ADORE your AV!!

heh heh heh. Want it back? :pirate: :palm:

[Rahab]

I have also thought of the meaning of Santa......I am not sure how emphatic it is in the US, but both in Italy and France Santa is going to give presents only if you have been a good little boy or little girl. So it kind of takes out the concept of our God who dispenses Grace to us thru Christ and that the ultimate gift of salvation does not depend on us being good or bad but soly on His Grace.
In other words, Santa's character as depicted in some cultures, is far from being representative of God's Character.
I find it more honest to explain to our children that gifts at Christmas time are a symbol of folks gathering around Him at his birth place and blessing Him with presents to celebrate His First Coming.
I set up a "preseppe" each Christmas , a Napolitan Nativity scene with all sorts of characters, characters who also present various offerings to the Messiah from bread, to fruit, to poultry etc....it is an entire village which also reflects napolitan culture (you can even find a tiny pizza oven hehehehhe).

[Socrates]

I see no merit about teaching kids that Santa is real. Once they realise that their parents were not truthful about Santa, why should they believe them about Jesus?

Rahab has some very good ideas above.

[dhpierson]

Socrates wrote:

I see no merit about teaching kids that Santa is real. Once they realise that their parents were not truthful about Santa, why should they believe them about Jesus?

~~~ Oh, no doubt about it. My parents lied to me about Santa when I was little, and when I found out the horrible truth at the age of seven or eight, I was so mortified that I realized I had no good reason to ever believe anything important they told me again. It's crippled my sense of trust in mankind, really. My best friend lied to me when he was 13 years old and now, well, I always check everything he says. ~~~ :ahem:

Welcome back to the real world. Here's my question: Is this just a way of thinking for people who work for AiG, or are there others in the world who think that if someone is in error or lies once, one has no legitimate reason to trust them again? Does Sarfati trust his eyesight anymore (surely it's deceived him at least once)? How about hearing? Taste? Touch? Smell? It seems like someone is just a hop, skip, and a jump away from all-out universal skepticism. :hrm:

[India]

dhpierson - Actually, a good friend of mine told me that when she was about six or so, her mom mentioned something about God (e.g. "be sure to say your prayers") and she responded with, "But isn't God just a made-up story, like Santa Claus and the tooth fairy?"

My cousin's son asked one year about Jesus having a birthday cake, so every Christmas they make a birthday cake for Jesus.

I think something that would be good for older children is to give a gift to charity, a la World Concern's gift catalog. Either that can be the gift they give to their parents, or for one of their gifts, they can choose a charity for their parents to donate to (esp. if they're middle school age and are starting to get into causes like "save the animals").

[dhpierson]

Hi India,


"dhpierson - Actually, a good friend of mine told me that when she was about six or so, her mom mentioned something about God (e.g. "be sure to say your prayers") and she responded with, 'But isn't God just a made-up story, like Santa Claus and the tooth fairy?'"

Well, does your friend still trust her mother? :smile:

There are exceptions to almost anything, of course, but my point simply was that the reasoning 'Socrates' uses here is absurd and that it doesn't hold for the vast majority of children who are (eventually) told that Santa Claus isn't real after being led to believe otherwise. I don't hear any sociologists or child psychologists claiming that children are losing trust in their parents at a record clip because of the lies about Santa and the Easter Bunny.

I myself don't mind either way (your suggestions seem fine). If a parent wants to shine the resplendence of truth upon their child by not promoting little white lies about non-existent figures around significant holidays (or events) for a very short period of time, that's fine, but I really see nothing wrong with telling one's child -- for a few years -- something that's not true simply to increase their enjoyment around a special occasion. I think we who believed in Santa Claus as youngsters tend to come out pretty well when we hit 9 or 10.

[Socrates]

Today @ 03:44 PM post located here (http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=322817#post322817)
dhpierson:

There are exceptions to almost anything, of course, but my point simply was that the reasoning 'Socrates' uses here is absurd and that it doesn't hold for the vast majority of children who are (eventually) told that Santa Claus isn't real after being led to believe otherwise.

What's absurd about it? Why tell kids an untruth is fact, especially the nonsense about santa having omniscience, or at least enough knowledge to know whether children have been good or bad?

I don't hear any sociologists or child psychologists claiming that children are losing trust in their parents at a record clip because of the lies about Santa and the Easter Bunny.

Who cares about secular "authorities"? There ARE real problems with pseudo-religious false claims rubbing off on the true biblical claims. Especially as many Sunday school classes are all about "Bible stories" rather than presenting the biblical accounts as the true history of the world.

I myself don't mind either way (your suggestions seem fine). If a parent wants to shine the resplendence of truth upon their child by not promoting little white lies about non-existent figures around significant holidays (or events) for a very short period of time, that's fine, but I really see nothing wrong with telling one's child -- for a few years -- something that's not true simply to increase their enjoyment around a special occasion.

BTW, I have no problem with fantasy as long as it is presented as fantasy.

I think we who believed in Santa Claus as youngsters tend to come out pretty well when we hit 9 or 10.

It doesn't show in your case. :tongue:

[dhpierson]

"What's absurd about it?"

It's absurd for you to suggest that because my parents told me that Santa Claus was real when I was younger now means I have absolutely no good reason to trust them now. Do you think I should not trust my parents at this point? And just how does one go about honoring someone when they can't trust them? Do you still trust your eyes after they deceive you?


"Why tell kids an untruth is fact, especially the nonsense about santa having omniscience, or at least enough knowledge to know whether children have been good or bad?"

I fail to see the harm it does. I have fond memories of Christmas based in part on my one-time belief in Santa. I don't recall very many of my classmates in the second grade being all that crippled when we learned that ol' S.C. is a myth. Do you consider it to be some sort of heresy for parents to attribute to a mythological figure some of the qualities that God is alleged to have?


Who cares about secular "authorities"?

Eh? This is fairly reminiscent of your infamous "Who cares what you think if you disagree with Paul" remark a while back. Are you actually saying that the insights secular professionals have into *their own professions* are irrelevant *simply* because they may or may not be religious? I certainly care what PhD-holding psychologists and sociologists have to say about their own research and the research of others (is someone else more qualified?), and I fail to see how being secular changes anything. Can anyone do credible work without being a dogmatic religionist?


"There ARE real problems with pseudo-religious false claims rubbing off on the true biblical claims. Especially as many Sunday school classes are all about "Bible stories" rather than presenting the biblical accounts as the true history of the world."

So you're saying there's a connection between telling kids about the 'truth' of, e.g. Santa Claus, and later telling them that he doesn't exist, and the deteriorating belief in the historicity of Genesis? If such 'rubbing off' does occur, it's the fault of the Sunday school teachers for treating certain passages in certain allegorical ways.


"It doesn't show in your case."

My, my. Are you merely trying to be cute here, or did you really convince yourself that you were able to tell that much about me from two posts? I can FEEL the Christian love between us, Dr. Sarfati. :hrm:

[Sher]

dhpierson: ID speculation is against the rules you agreed to when you registered. Please discontinue this to avoid being placed in moderation. Thanks.

[dhpierson]

Socrates:


"It doesn't show in your case."

Are you just trying to be funny (and note that I'm using the word in a very loose sense)? Insulting? Do you think you can infer that much from a person based on a few posts?

[Socrates]

Today @ 05:10 PM post located here (http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=322864#post322864)
dhpierson, replying to:

:soc: What's absurd about it?

It's absurd for you to suggest that because my parents told me that Santa Claus was real when I was younger now means I have absolutely no good reason to trust them now.

:soc: Maybe not, but why would you trust them that Jesus is truly God and worked miracles when they told you porkies about Santa's omniscience and miracle working?

Do you think I should not trust my parents at this point? And just how does one go about honoring someone when they can't trust them?

:soc: Hardly my problem. That's the problem of parents who betray their kids' trust by telling them a false idea about religion then are horrified when they reject Jesus as well.

:soc: Why tell kids an untruth is fact, especially the nonsense about santa having omniscience, or at least enough knowledge to know whether children have been good or bad?

I fail to see the harm it does.

:soc: Not exactly answering my question.

I have fond memories of Christmas based in part on my one-time belief in Santa. I don't recall very many of my classmates in the second grade being all that crippled when we learned that ol' S.C. is a myth.

:soc: I'm talking about whether they would retain faith in the true religion.

Do you consider it to be some sort of heresy for parents to attribute to a mythological figure some of the qualities that God is alleged to have?

:soc: It's a form of idolatry to equate any part of creation with the Creator -- see Romans 1:25.

:soc: Who cares about secular "authorities"?

Eh? This is fairly reminiscent of your infamous "Who cares what you think if you disagree with Paul" remark a while back.

:soc: That's right. No one should care if someone agrees with Christ's chosen apostle -- see Romans 9. Why, do you disagree with Paul?

Are you actually saying that the insights secular professionals have into *their own professions* are irrelevant *simply* because they may or may not be religious?

:soc: When it comes to psychology and sociology, yes, because they start from a faulty premise about the nature of man -- created in God's image, but fallen as well.

I certainly care what PhD-holding psychologists and sociologists have to say about their own research and the research of others (is someone else more qualified?), and I fail to see how being secular changes anything. Can anyone do credible work without being a dogmatic religionist?

:soc: Who are these "dogmatic religionists"? The fanatical atheists at the forefront of evolutionary propaganda?

:soc: There ARE real problems with pseudo-religious false claims rubbing off on the true biblical claims. Especially as many Sunday school classes are all about "Bible stories" rather than presenting the biblical accounts as the true history of the world.

So you're saying there's a connection between telling kids about the 'truth' of, e.g. Santa Claus, and later telling them that he doesn't exist, and the deteriorating belief in the historicity of Genesis? If such 'rubbing off' does occur, it's the fault of the Sunday school teachers for treating certain passages in certain allegorical ways.

:soc: Yep, a combination of teaching a fable as fact and facts as mere stories is bound to be deleterious.

[Penguin]

Isn't great how controversial Santa is? :teeth:

[dhpierson]

"but why would you trust them that Jesus is truly God and worked miracles when they told you porkies about Santa's omniscience and miracle working?"

Again: why would you trust your eyesight when it's deceived you before? Answer: because it (at least appears) to have been very reliable much more often than not. Same with my parents. As far as I know, almost everything they've told me they themselves believed to be true, and the few notable exceptions I can come up with (Santa, EB, TF) were done solely to increase my enjoyment as a child, with no harm coming as a result of that. What reason did I have to *not* trust them at that time? What reason do you have for forgiving a sinner if you know he's lied to you in the past?

Of course, I wouldn't 'trust' them *now* for the simple fact that I'm old enough to evaluate the arguments for and against Christianity on my own and don't need ma and pa's say-so that the Bible is true through and through. I'd hope everyone would outgrow the stage where they believe in Christianity because, welp, that's what the folks toll 'um.


"Hardly my problem. That's the problem of parents who betray their kids' trust by telling them a false idea about religion then are horrified when they reject Jesus as well."

I'm not really concerned about this, of course. I've explained why I can still trust my parents as much as ever. I was just curious what your reply would be.

"Not exactly answering my question."

It was answered, you just didn't following along.

1. I fail to see the harm it does.

2. I have fond memories of Christmas based in part on my one-time belief in Santa.

"I'm talking about whether they would retain faith in the true religion."

Haven't heard of too many kids dropping belief in Christ after learning of the non-existence of Santa Claus. You?


"It's a form of idolatry to equate any part of creation with the Creator -- see Romans 1:25."

So just which forms of fantasy are you not against? I can't think of a single fantasy story (in the line of Harry Potter or Lord of the Rings) that doesn't involve some sort supernaturality. Or are you just using fantasy to mean realistic fiction (something like Harry Turtledove, for example)?


"That's right. No one should care if someone agrees with Christ's chosen apostle -- see Romans 9. Why, do you disagree with Paul?"

I assume you mean 'disagrees'. And no, I don't disagree with Paul, but the fact that someone does disagree with him is hardly a good reason for not listening to that person's position and their arguments. When you say 'Who cares what you think, if you disagree with Paul' you seem to be strongly suggesting that you don't have to listen to what another person is saying *simply* because they don't happen to believe that Saul of Tarsus was divinely inspired at some points in his life. Similarly, apparently dismissing all of (secular) sociology and psychology *just* because the professionals in those fields *might* not necessarily be followers of Jesus isn't a particularly good reason (and doesn't appear to be terribly open-minded to other views).


"When it comes to psychology and sociology, yes, because they start from a faulty premise about the nature of man -- created in God's image, but fallen as well."

Name me one secular natural or social science whose conclusions you wouldn't dismiss a priori then. Your comment about 'when it comes to x and x' implies that there might be secular disciplines that you wouldn't reject a priori. I'd be interested to learn if there are any.

Also, what faulty premise do secular sociologists and psychologists allegedly start from? Note that secular doesn't necessarily mean atheistic or even "pro-evolution" -- you can probably find YECs in secular universities who are sociologists or psychologists if you look hard enough.


"Who are these "dogmatic religionists"? The fanatical atheists at the forefront of evolutionary propaganda?"

No. Now can you please answer my question?

"Yep, a combination of teaching a fable as fact and facts as mere stories is bound to be deleterious."

I have yet to be convinced (and you have yet to show) that spreading the myth of Santa Claus has negative effects on society or even just on young Christians. I'd ask you to cite findings from sociologists or pyschologists proving this to me, but unfortunately you appear to dismiss their work out of hand. The latter part of your comment is obviously true enough.

[dhpierson]

Hi Penguin,

"Isn't great how controversial Santa is?"

He shouldn't be. :smile: Socrates is the first person I've come across who considers him to be a controversial figure. Maybe I shouldn't be surprised.

[Penguin]

Today @ 09:19 AM post located here (http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=322935#post322935)
dhpierson:

Hi Penguin,

"Isn't great how controversial Santa is?"

He shouldn't be. :smile: Socrates is the first person I've come across who considers him to be a controversial figure. Maybe I shouldn't be surprised.

Perhaps you haven't read my first post in this thread.

:-)

[dhpierson]

"Perhaps you haven't read my first post in this thread."

:-)


True enough. Looks like you're #2. :smile:

[mossrose]

Alright. This is NOT a debate forum. Home Ec exists to share ideas and practical ways to help each other.

When I started this thread, I wanted ways in which we can teach our children that materialism is not the reason behind Christmas. If you want to debate the merits of "to Santa or not to Santa", then take it to the Locker Room or the Philosophy forum.

Some of you have responded with good, practical wisdom on how we can help our children realize that Jesus is why we celebrate Christmas. Keep those posts coming.

This will be the only warning. If inflammatory posts continue the way they have here, I will close this thread.

[Penguin]

Well, one way to teach children that materialism is not the reason behind Christmas is to avoid telling them about *****. Christmas is about Christ's birth. And it's not only about his birth, but all that it implies. I love how Simeon reacts to seeing the young Jesus. "Lord, now lettest thou thy servant depart in peace, according to thy word: For mine eyes have seen thy salvation, Which though hast prepared before the face of all people; A light to lighten the Gentiles, and the glory of thy people Israel." Christmas is such a glorious celebration of God giving his greatest gift to mankind, and no one can outdo God. :wink: We can teach kids this. Read to them the first few chapters in Luke. I love reading those around Christmas time. :teeth:

[mossrose]

Thank you Penguin. I appreciate your comment. However, I did NOT say that Santa was a word you couldn't say. So, go right ahead. Just keep the debate to a minimum.

:smile:

[Esther]

We struggle with this too, Mossrose (getting back to your OP :wink:). Without getting into the whole Santa controversy (#3 here), I will say that Santa has very little to do with the way we celebrate Christmas at our house, except that we might try to be prepared for when we run into him ringing his bell outside of WalMart. It's hard enough to keep Christmas about Christ without adding the jolly old elf to the mix.

Here are some ideas, for whatever they're worth:

* As a family, put together care packages for people staying at a shelter. Ask the shelter what age range they are most in need of. I'm sure they'll be only too happy to give you some ideas!

* Check with the Salvation Army (or your church!) to see what needs there are in the community. At a couple of offices I worked at, we adopted a whole family for Christmas. That was a lot of fun and there is lots of room for creativity. In a case where only a few people are pitching in, i.e. your family, you could ask if there are any shut-ins or single parents with only children who could use some TLC. What we did as an office was to provide fixings for Christmas dinner as well as other grocery items and as many things on their wish lists as we could afford. Kids usually ask for a ton of toys but the moms usually had necessities on their wish lists.

* You could suggest to your kids (and their spouses?) that in lieu of a gift this year, you'd really like to provide as many blankets as you can to Sudanese Christians. If they're game, decide on a date to pile all of your money together, go shopping and send the blankets.

* One year I put together a scripture reading, alternating OT prophecy with NT fulfilliment, for our enormous family Christmas party. We hadn't done much of that in the past and I was really nervous (there were about 90 people there) but it was well received.

* Another year on Christmas morning we read the account (I rarely refer to that as a "story" anymore) of Christ's birth. My parents and sister, my husband's parents, my husband, 5yo son and I read through it, each reading once sentence at a time around the table after breakfast.

* Volunteer to help serve Christmas dinner as a family at a shelter or mission. I have never done this but I would if I had either my family or a friend to go with me and hold my hand. (Meeting new people is terrifying!)

* There are people whose lives we touch every day who need to know or be reminded of the love of Jesus. If we haven't gotten the message across by now, there's no time like the present.

My kids like to bake or make gifts for our neighbors. One couple has some health problems and can't often eat the things they are particularly fond of. On Christmas eve a couple of years ago, I sent the kids over (young enough to still be "cute" and "precious" on short visits) with green onions for the husband and homemade caramel corn for the wife. They loved that because they knew that we were really thinking of them.

Was any of this what you were asking for?

[mossrose]

Those are exactly what I wanted Esther. Thank you!!

Does anyone do the Samaritan's Purse Christmas Child shoeboxes with your children? We started doing that with our kids when the idea first came out a few years ago.

[Penguin]

Yesterday @ 03:44 PM post located here (http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=324658#post324658)
mossrose:

Thank you Penguin. I appreciate your comment. However, I did NOT say that Santa was a word you couldn't say. So, go right ahead. Just keep the debate to a minimum.

:smile:
*breathes a sigh of relief*

I just wanted to be on the safe side. ;-)

[mossrose]

:smile:

[Rahab]

Many of my patients are senior citizens who are home bound. They often live alone, very alone. Deliver a Christmas meal to a lonely old grand pa or grand ma. Bring the kiddies to sing Christmas Carols. Call the Elderly Services to see if they have a list of needy seniors.

Take your family to your local nursing home. Sponsor a deserted senior whose family lives too far away or who has been forgotten. Make sure you bring cookies with sugar subtitutes and low in cholesterol and something not too chewy. Call the home prior to visiting. And more importantly continue to visit for many months...... Bring a family portrait to your "adopted" senior. Those folks are so charming! They have wonderful stories. Some of them might forget who you are the next time you come. Just do it all over again! it is OK.....
Those you visit at home may be shy at first......maybe protective. That is why it is better you ask social workers to introduce you. If they are ambulatory, you can even build the relationship to the point you can take them on family outings and make them part of any of your special events. If they are bed bound or chair bound oh.... your simple presence will give them wings!
I always favor my times with senior folks. No matter how their mental state is. They are a monument to be honored. A memorial to so many experiences , failures, successes, struggles, victories.
Enjoy your time with them!

[Penguin]

...we might try to be prepared for when we run into him ringing his bell outside of WalMart...

Would it be morally wrong to tackle that Santa at Walmart? I mean, hasn't it ever crossed ya'lls minds to do so? It's like their job description is "Give Holiday Shoppers Migraines." Not that I would or ever have tackled a Santa before. :teeth:

[Penguin]

Yesterday @ 03:01 AM post located here (http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=328357#post328357)
Rahab:

Many of my patients are senior citizens who are home bound. They often live alone, very alone. Deliver a Christmas meal to a lonely old grand pa or grand ma. Bring the kiddies to sing Christmas Carols. Call the Elderly Services to see if they have a list of needy seniors.

Take your family to your local nursing home. Sponsor a deserted senior whose family lives too far away or who has been forgotten. Make sure you bring cookies with sugar subtitutes and low in cholesterol and something not too chewy. Call the home prior to visiting. And more importantly continue to visit for many months...... Bring a family portrait to your "adopted" senior. Those folks are so charming! They have wonderful stories. Some of them might forget who you are the next time you come. Just do it all over again! it is OK.....
Those you visit at home may be shy at first......maybe protective. That is why it is better you ask social workers to introduce you. If they are ambulatory, you can even build the relationship to the point you can take them on family outings and make them part of any of your special events. If they are bed bound or chair bound oh.... your simple presence will give them wings!
I always favor my times with senior folks. No matter how their mental state is. They are a monument to be honored. A memorial to so many experiences , failures, successes, struggles, victories.
Enjoy your time with them!

Good idea. If I didn't have to work most all of the time, I'd try to do that. They say those elderly folks can get extremely lonely. At the store I work in, we get lots of older folks. It's amazing the stories they can tell. The hard times they went through, what life was like before internet (*gasps*), heck, what life was like before television and simple everyday appliances. They lived the life!

[Esther]

I love spending time with elderly folks. They are sooo interesting! Our neighbors are almost apologetic for their advanced age but I enjoy them so much. They're so precious! Sometimes the best thing we can give them is our time and our listening ears.

Great ideas, Veronique!