The Son of Man

[algaines]

Exactly who is the Son of Man?

Is he a human amongst humans...Is he what man should or could have been....Is he the servant of man by being in his form?

I know in Daniel and in the Synoptics you hear this spoken of; does anyone have any Midrashic or other teachings on the Son of Man?

Thank you in advance,

God bless.

[Bill the Cat]

Might want to move this to Comparative Religions. I'm sure stillsmallvoice or yosiah_ap have some info

[Reader]

algaines:

Exactly who is the Son of Man?


The "Son of Man" is the same Person as the "Son of God."

He was God come into the world in human flesh; named Jesus Christ.

Jesus Christ was both a human Man and Divine God, thus He is referred to by both titles in the Bible.

[Timothy Leary]

http://www.ou.org/chagim/shavuot/debate.htm

[jpholding]

You know links can't be subbed for argument. :wink:

http://www.tektonics.org/tekton_01_02_01_SOM.html

[stillsmallvoice]

Hi all!

I'm not sure I know what to reply here.

The phrase "Son of man" as used in Ezekiel is a literal translation of the Hebrew ben adam, which literally means son of Adam. In modern Hebrew parlance, ben adam is used like the English "human being". A better translation of the term in Ezekiel would be to have God addressing Ezekiel simply as, "Man."

Thoughts on the "Son of Man" in Christological terms and/or as the phrase appears in the Gospels are beyond my purview as an orthodox Jew. Suffice to say that there is no Midrashic literature on the phrase in this sense.

Be well!

ssv :wave:

[jpholding]

stillsmallvoice:

The phrase "Son of man" as used in Ezekiel is a literal translation of the Hebrew ben adam, which literally means son of Adam.

True. But Daniel uses bar enash. :thumb:

[stillsmallvoice]

Hi all!

Jpholding posted:

But Daniel uses bar enash.

The Aramaic bar enash corresponds to the Hebrew ben enosh. Hebrew has four words for man, humanity, human being, humankind, etc. They are: adam (or ben adam), gever, ish and enosh. Why this or that verse in the Tanakh uses one particular word of these four and not any of the other three is a story in itself. The four words are not quite synonyms & each connotates something different about the character and spiritual nature of man. I don't know what these differences are.

See http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/view.jsp?artid=123&letter=M&search=enosh and http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/view.jsp?artid=965&letter=S&search=man.

Be well!

ssv :hi:

[jpholding]

stillsmallvoice:
Why this or that verse in the Tanakh uses one particular word of these four and not any of the other three is a story in itself. The four words are not quite synonyms & each connotates something different about the character and spiritual nature of man. I don't know what these differences are.


I discuss the history of bar enash in the article I link above.

[jcr4runner]

I've been looking for info on this. I've had this debate with an atheist on my Real Jesus series on YOUTUBE and this man FRANK COFFMAN says that Jesus NEVER referred to himself as the messiah. Of course, the Son of Man reference in Daniel 7 is a ringer. Not only is this figure the messiah, but he is clearly the Son of God, the second person of the Trinity.

Jesus often uses the term Son of Man in the Gospels, The first time I encountered this I wondered why He didn't call himslef the Son of God. It seems contradictory on the surface. Of course, at that time (I was 12 or 13) I didn't know about the Daniel reference,

So then this atheist counters that the Son of Man is often used other times in scripture. Surprised to find out that he was right. But then I remembered that Daniel was writing in Chaldean -- or at least that is how the book came to us and to the people in Jesus generation. Chaldean, Hebrew and Aramaic are similar somewhat like Norwegian, Swedish and Danish.

Hebrew: Ben Adam
Chaldean: Bar Enoch (or "enash")

Aramaic and Chaldean are closest and some would say the same language. So Jesus probably said "bar enash" when speaking of the Son of Man.

"Bar" is even transliterated in Greek in several cases.

Bartimaeus (that is, the Son of Timaeus)
Barabbas (son of the father -- great irony here!)
Barnabas (which means Son of Encouragement),
SImon Bar-Jona (son of Jonah)

A form of Ben is also used:

Bonarges (Sons of thunder)

So even though the text is Greek we can be pretty sure that Jesus was saying Bar Enash -- and referring to Daniel.

It would also be interesting to check Syriac translations to see how the term Son of Man is rendered -- not that this proves anything necessarily.

I glanced at J.P.'s article, but will have to read it more in depth.

I think that even more conclusive to the claims to the messiah's divinity is when Jesus discusses Psalm 110 with the Pharisees.

[Tanakh Keeper]

Exactly who is the Son of Man?

Is he a human amongst humans...Is he what man should or could have been....Is he the servant of man by being in his form?

I know in Daniel and in the Synoptics you hear this spoken of; does anyone have any Midrashic or other teachings on the Son of Man?

Thank you in advance,

God bless.

I don't know why Christians are answering your question with answers from their Christian religion. You posted this in the Judaism thread, so you are obviously looking for the answer according to Judaism.

Please provide the specific verses that this phrase is in, so I can provide a specific answer.

[sylvius]

I think the Son of Man is no other than Noach --

Noach not as an historical figure, who lived then and then, long ago, etc.

Genesis 5 lists the generations of Adam, ten generations, Enosh being the third, Noach the tenth.

Just in the case of Noach there is mentioning of "and he begot a son", Genesis 5: 28.

In the other cases it is , "and he begot Enosh", "and he begot Kenan" , "and he begot Mehalalel" etc.
(except that for Shet (Seth) is used another formula: "and he begot in his likeness after his image, and he named him Seth." ).

Genesis 5:29 explains the name Noach:
"This one will give us rest from our work and from the toil of our hands from the ground, which the Lord has cursed."

now remember why the ground was cursed!

Wasn't it because of Adam's sin?

That's why "son of Man" -- "ben Adam" -- is Mashiach.

and that's also why Noach is called Menachem (Consoler).

Rashi:
This one will give us rest Heb. יְנַחִמֵנוּ He will give us rest (יָנַח מִמֶנוּ) from the toil of our hands. Before Noah came, they did not have plowshares, and he prepared [these tools] for them. And the land was producing thorns and thistles when they sowed wheat, because of the curse of the first man (Adam), but in Noah’s time, it [the curse] subsided. This is the meaning of יְנַחִמֵנוּ. If you do not explain it that way, however (but from the root (נחם), the sense of the word does not fit the name, [נֹחַ], and you would have to name him Menachem. — [See Gen. Rabbah 25:2] [i.e., If we explain the word according to its apparent meaning, “this one will console us,” the child should have been called Menachem, the consoler.]