Cosmic Christmas

[ApologiaPhoenix]

Celebrate Christmas, a time of war! What?

The link can be found here (http://deeperwaters.wordpress.com/2011/12/13/cosmic-christmas-3/)

The text is as follows:

Hello everyone and welcome back to Deeper Waters where we are diving into the ocean of truth. Tonight, I'd like to move on to another topic for the time being. If we see something from the Geisler camp, we can write about it again, but for now, it looks like there's nothing going on. Therefore, with Christmas coming up, I'd like to share what I preached on this Sunday as the guest preacher at my church.

We often think of Christmas coming and having it being a season and joy of celebration. The Messiah has come! Peace on Earth! Goodwill towards men! Let's celebrate the joy that has come to the world.

Unless you're a mother in Bethlehem within two years of the birth of Jesus and your young boy has been slaughtered by a bloodthirsty king refusing any competition.

Or unless you're a family that has been torn apart over who this new person Jesus is and you have father against daughter and brother against sister, as Jesus prophesied.

Or unless you're the Pharisees and Sadducees who have doom pronounced on your system for the rejection of Messiah.

Or unless you're a town Jesus ministered to who rejected him and was told that Sodom and Gomorrah would have it more bearable than you do.

Or unless you're in Jerusalem around 70 A.D. where you're forced to have to eat your own children just to survive or have yourself cut open by the Romans so they can get to the valuables you swallowed.

Now don't get me wrong! Of course we can all celebrate the salvation we have in Christ and that far outweighs any temporary sufferings that we are undergoing and will undergo, but let us remember that when Christ came, while he came as a little baby, it was not a mild act on the part of God.

The original Christmas day, was D-Day.

Hence, when I preached this message, the text for my sermon was Revelation 12. I believe that that is John the Revelator giving us his version of the Christmas story. John often gives a heavenly perspective on earthly events in the book. What we find at that point is that John is telling us that when Christ was born, there was really a heavenly battle taking place.

At Christmas then, we celebrate an act of war.

This act of war was the greatest act of all. It was not that Christ came into the world and turned it upside-down. Christ came into the world to turn it right-side up. To this day, it is being turned right-side up. Whenever you go out and do evangelism, you are making an act of war on enemy territory. You are fighting for the hearts and souls of men with the tempter who is wanting to say "Mine" and yet having his influence lessened by the preaching of the cross of Christ.

We are New Testament saints. Paul says that we are a new creation. Let us live as if we are. We have been empowered by the Holy Spirit and we ought to live different lives. We ought to! So rarely do we. It is as if we are convinced that we are still under the old covenant.

When Christ comes, he changes everything and we dare not live in the world as if it was still the old world and we dare not live our lives as if we were in the old covenant. How can we preach the message of transformation unless we really believe that we are transformed?

For those of us who are men, when we go to the movies, we often watch the hero fight the bad guys in hand-to-hand combat or have a perfect shot with a gun or have the coolest gadgets and drive the best cars. We often wish we could be the hero, but in reality, we do get to play such a part. We get to play a part in God's story. We can be heroes for Jesus in the ultimate battle of good and evil.

I grew up in the gaming industry. I still enjoy that industry. When we play games, we want to be the hero in those. Once again, we do have that chance. This is the most serious game of all however. There is no save point to return to. There are no cheats. There is no reset button. Every decision you make in this game is an important one.

We are after D-Day. Our message is to proclaim V-Day. We can be sure of one great fact as we fight the fight and play the game. We will win. Now we as individuals could suffer defeat, even defeat to the point of death, but ultimately, we know that we are going to win. We are on the winning side and it is the side that cannot be defeated. It is not even a competition. How many of you would like to play a game and know that whatever happened, victory was guaranteed? Well now it is!

This Christmas, celebrate with friends and family by all means, but celebrate by another means. Celebrate an act of war by proclaiming the good news of V-Day. For Christmas, be a hero.

[fm93]

You also could've mentioned that the very custom of celebrating Christmas on December 25th was itself a sort of war against the pagans--a battle to secure that day for God and overthrow the pagan commemoration of that day. And of course, we're being engaged in war today--the secular world is attempting to strip Christmas of its religious significance and utterly secularize and commercialize it.

[ApologiaPhoenix]

Except I'm not convinced that's true. JPH put a link up to a great article on the dating of Christmas last year.

[fm93]

Link please?

[ApologiaPhoenix]

http://tektonforge.blogspot.com/2010/12/who-stole-christmas.html

[KingsGambit]

Very interesting article; I do think the effect of this type of thing is much overstated. I agree that it doesn't objectively matter where the holiday came from and like the analogy of the days of the week, but if the issue allows us to make some inroads to push back against the copycat theorists, so much the better.

[Michelle]

Now don't get me wrong! Of course we can all celebrate the salvation we have in Christ and that far outweighs any temporary sufferings that we are undergoing and will undergo, but let us remember that when Christ came, while he came as a little baby, it was not a mild act on the part of God.

The original Christmas day, was D-Day.

Hence, when I preached this message, the text for my sermon was Revelation 12. I believe that that is John the Revelator giving us his version of the Christmas story. John often gives a heavenly perspective on earthly events in the book. What we find at that point is that John is telling us that when Christ was born, there was really a heavenly battle taking place.

At Christmas then, we celebrate an act of war.


Hi Nick,

I like the statement: "...when Christ came, while he came as a little baby, it was not a mild act on the part of God." I like that you call this an act of war. I like that you remind us that 'gentle Jesus, meek and mild' does not characterize our lord, nor summarize the story of redemption. I was reminded that Christ the King has come, that he's come to defeat the enemy,and that death and Satan were defeated at the cross.

I have some questions about your article/sermon.

First of all, you cite Revelation 12 as your text. The whole chapter?

[ApologiaPhoenix]

I used the whole chapter as an ideal, but I did not go through and exegete all of it. I merely wanted the warfare picture. I did say that there was much telescoping in the chapter as I think it includes the birth of Christ all the way to the church.

[Michelle]

I used the whole chapter as an ideal, but I did not go through and exegete all of it. I merely wanted the warfare picture. I did say that there was much telescoping in the chapter as I think it includes the birth of Christ all the way to the church.

Ah, thanks.

This act of war was the greatest act of all. It was not that Christ came into the world and turned it upside-down. Christ came into the world to turn it right-side up. To this day, it is being turned right-side up. Whenever you go out and do evangelism, you are making an act of war on enemy territory. You are fighting for the hearts and souls of men with the tempter who is wanting to say "Mine" and yet having his influence lessened by the preaching of the cross of Christ.


Next you talk about our redemption through Christ's blood, I believe (I don't want to put words in your mouth so correct me if I'm mistaken here) when you talk about Christ putting the world being turned right side up. You say that whenever we share the gospel, we're making an act of war on enemy territory. I think you're saying that when people come to belief and enter the Kingdom, that's a loss for Satan; God's kingdom expands while the kingdom of darkness suffers loss, right?

Then you say:


We are New Testament saints. Paul says that we are a new creation. Let us live as if we are. We have been empowered by the Holy Spirit and we ought to live different lives. We ought to! So rarely do we. It is as if we are convinced that we are still under the old covenant.


...and then the next paragraph sort of repeats the thought:


When Christ comes, he changes everything and we dare not live in the world as if it was still the old world and we dare not live our lives as if we were in the old covenant. How can we preach the message of transformation unless we really believe that we are transformed?


I'm not sure I understand this in light of your call for evangelism. Are you saying that if we don't evangelize we are denying the new covenant? What does it mean to "live our lives as if we were in the old covenant," or to say, "it is as if we are convinced that we are still under the old covenant?" Could you give me some examples of how you see this happening in your church or among other Christians you know?

[ApologiaPhoenix]

Hi Michelle.

My call is that we should be spreading the gospel insofar as we can. I'm not one who can go up to a complete stranger well, for instance, but I can write my blog. I can do debates on here. You are a teacher and I think by touching the lives of your students, you're sharing your gospel, as well as the great love you show to people like Toodles and myself. We're not all evangelists, but we are all to do something to help the Great Commission somehow.

As for new creations, it means to claim our identity in Christ. We are to live knowing we really are forgiven and God really does love us instead of thinking we have to earn that love and that we must have actions that merit the grace of God. Victory has come. Christ has claimed it for us. Let us take it.

[Michelle]

Hi Michelle.

My call is that we should be spreading the gospel insofar as we can. I'm not one who can go up to a complete stranger well, for instance, but I can write my blog. I can do debates on here. You are a teacher and I think by touching the lives of your students, you're sharing your gospel, as well as the great love you show to people like Toodles and myself. We're not all evangelists, but we are all to do something to help the Great Commission somehow.

This makes me think about Paul writing in 1 Corinthians and Ephesians, where he emphasizes that we work together to build-up and encourage fellow believers in doing the great work of the Kingdom. You also seem to be saying that we have to work together, each doing what they are able - either by virtue of position or gifts, to build up the Kingdom and to decrease the influence of Satan in the world.

However, this makes your two illustrations all the more baffling for me. First you reference cinematic action heroes and mention a desire to be like them. Action heroes are the modern embodiment of the solitary man of action - either willing or unwitting - who saves the day. This is the opposite of what you seem to be calling for, if you are, indeed, referencing the unique community which is the Church.

Your other example is of a gamer sitting near his console meeting a gauntlet of challenges. I suppose gaming is more apt because a parallel can be drawn between multi-player quests and the work of the body of Christ. Still, the picture in my mind is of the lone player sitting in a room, erm, alone.

So, my next question is: Why did you pick these illustrations? What parallels did you see, other than combat? Or was combat the point, and my attempts to build an application based on your illustrations ridiculous?


As for new creations, it means to claim our identity in Christ. We are to live knowing we really are forgiven and God really does love us instead of thinking we have to earn that love and that we must have actions that merit the grace of God. Victory has come. Christ has claimed it for us. Let us take it.

"Let us take it." I'm not sure what that means. How do I take it?

[ApologiaPhoenix]

This makes me think about Paul writing in 1 Corinthians and Ephesians, where he emphasizes that we work together to build-up and encourage fellow believers in doing the great work of the Kingdom. You also seem to be saying that we have to work together, each doing what they are able - either by virtue of position or gifts, to build up the Kingdom and to decrease the influence of Satan in the world.

However, this makes your two illustrations all the more baffling for me. First you reference cinematic action heroes and mention a desire to be like them. Action heroes are the modern embodiment of the solitary man of action - either willing or unwitting - who saves the day. This is the opposite of what you seem to be calling for, if you are, indeed, referencing the unique community which is the Church.

Your other example is of a gamer sitting near his console meeting a gauntlet of challenges. I suppose gaming is more apt because a parallel can be drawn between multi-player quests and the work of the body of Christ. Still, the picture in my mind is of the lone player sitting in a room, erm, alone.

So, my next question is: Why did you pick these illustrations? What parallels did you see, other than combat? Or was combat the point, and my attempts to build an application based on your illustrations ridiculous?



"Let us take it." I'm not sure what that means. How do I take it?


Hi Michelle. Thanks for the questions.

I think you raise some good points. I think the gaming illustration works best when you think of something like Final Fantasy where a group of people who seem ordinary oft times come together and do something great. The point I was making for the audience is that many of us want to do something great and heroic and not sit on the sidelines. Well we can do that! It's the Great Commission! We are invited to participate in the greatest quest and adventure of all time.

That's what we take. The chance to spread the gospel and enhance the Kingdom. We take the chance to go to battle.

Does that help?

[Michelle]

Hi Michelle. Thanks for the questions.

I think you raise some good points. I think the gaming illustration works best when you think of something like Final Fantasy where a group of people who seem ordinary oft times come together and do something great. The point I was making for the audience is that many of us want to do something great and heroic and not sit on the sidelines. Well we can do that! It's the Great Commission! We are invited to participate in the greatest quest and adventure of all time.

That's what we take. The chance to spread the gospel and enhance the Kingdom. We take the chance to go to battle.

Does that help?

Hi Nick, thanks for taking on my questions. When else can I ever ask the preacher to expand and explain his message?

[ApologiaPhoenix]

Hi Nick, thanks for taking on my questions. When else can I ever ask the preacher to expand and explain his message?

I would hope any other time in any other church. Unfortunately, I do not think that that is so.

[Michelle]

I would hope any other time in any other church. Unfortunately, I do not think that that is so.

I don't think so either. I think it's generally assumed that the laity should stay quiet.

[ApologiaPhoenix]

How much the church could grow if the pastor knew his audience had more than just a surface familiarity with the text and thus he'd have to dig really hard into the text to find something to say to his congregation and could expect them to ask questions.

[Michelle]

How much the church could grow if the pastor knew his audience had more than just a surface familiarity with the text and thus he'd have to dig really hard into the text to find something to say to his congregation and could expect them to ask questions.

What do you think - would the church also grow much if the pastor assumed deeper familiarity with the text and therefore had to dig really hard to present thought-provoking sermons? Why are sermons aimed at the least shallowest?

[princesa]

I would hope any other time in any other church. Unfortunately, I do not think that that is so.

yes, mine told me if I didn't like what he had to say I should go somewhere else.

.....just wanted to say that I appreciate the new insight as Jesus's arrival as a baby nothing mild, but D-Day, war...I never thought of it that way.

[ApologiaPhoenix]

What do you think - would the church also grow much if the pastor assumed deeper familiarity with the text and therefore had to dig really hard to present thought-provoking sermons? Why are sermons aimed at the least shallowest?

It could be that a lot of churches want to draw people in and not challenge their community. Just keep them happy. I say raise the bar little by little. Put it above the heads of the people, but not out of their reach entirely. They just have to really grab for it. We've been sending a diet of junk food to our church. Now we wonder why their minds aren't fit.

[ApologiaPhoenix]

yes, mine told me if I didn't like what he had to say I should go somewhere else.

.....just wanted to say that I appreciate the new insight as Jesus's arrival as a baby nothing mild, but D-Day, war...I never thought of it that way.

Thank you. It's good to know I got someone to see the text in a new light.

[KingsGambit]

Forgive me for jumping in, but reading some of the earlier posts (especially Michelle's good post about the unfortunate assumption that the laity should stay quiet), I was reminded of an incident awhile ago. I actually was talking to a friend in seminary who was going over a sermon she was going to give (I later found out that she has extremely liberal theological views that, to me, seem to qualify as "barely Christian"), and I looked at it, and asked her why she didn't maybe talk about what some of the words mean in Greek. She said "oh, they tell us we're not supposed to talk about that, because lay people don't care about that sort of thing". I basically said that I do care about that sort of thing, and have heard textuality discussed at the pulpit without feeling turned off.. but I guess the modern church just has to go for the lowest common denominator.