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Trout
07-19-2017, 10:44 AM
Yesterday I was handed a Chick Tract.

I'll put in a good word for all of you when I'm enjoying heaven.

rogue06
07-19-2017, 11:39 AM
Yesterday I was handed a Chick Tract.

I'll put in a good word for all of you when I'm enjoying heaven.
Apparently you haven't seen the one called "There Are No Fish in Heaven"

Sparko
07-19-2017, 12:06 PM
Apparently you haven't seen the one called "There Are No Fish in Heaven"

or Indians with Mustaches I heard.

Sparko
07-19-2017, 12:17 PM
https://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/1061/1061_01.asp
23356

One Bad Pig
07-19-2017, 12:41 PM
https://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/1061/1061_01.asp
23356
Old Mary is a well-known Injun name. :yes: Just like little Sarah.

Darth Executor
07-19-2017, 12:53 PM
Old Mary is a well-known Injun name. :yes: Just like little Sarah.

just about every native i run into has an english first name.

Sparko
07-19-2017, 12:54 PM
I am Trout's spirit animal.

rogue06
07-19-2017, 01:14 PM
I am Trout's spirit animal.
I thought that a gerbil was Trout's spirit animal. :nsm:

One Bad Pig
07-19-2017, 01:21 PM
just about every native i run into has an english first name.
How many of them still worship their tribal gods?

Carrikature
07-19-2017, 03:58 PM
https://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/1061/1061_01.asp
23356

I can't decide if these were meant to be real. I've been on the internet too long, I think...

Trout
07-19-2017, 04:45 PM
How many of them still worship their tribal gods?

Most do where I live. Native culture is alive and well. Medicine men, ceremonies, peyote, sweat lodges. It's like Woodstock here.

One Bad Pig
07-19-2017, 05:00 PM
Most do where I live. Native culture is alive and well. Medicine men, ceremonies, peyote, sweat lodges. It's like Woodstock here.Do they stick to traditional names, or mostly use Christian ones?

Trout
07-19-2017, 05:09 PM
Do they stick to traditional names, or mostly use Christian ones?

English names.

Many have natives names in addition.

They added to their culture the things they liked about Anglo culture.

They like pageants, they host a miss Navajo pageant every year. But they are judged on things like building friction fire and killing and butchering a sheep.

One Bad Pig
07-19-2017, 05:10 PM
Interesting.

Sparko
07-20-2017, 08:01 AM
I thought that a gerbil was Trout's spirit animal. :nsm:not any more.

Sparko
07-20-2017, 08:05 AM
I can't decide if these were meant to be real. I've been on the internet too long, I think...

Jack Chick was very serious. He saw demons and witchcraft everywhere, including in the Catholic church. Even in D&D games.

Sparko
07-20-2017, 08:10 AM
English names.

Many have natives names in addition.

They added to their culture the things they liked about Anglo culture.

They like pageants, they host a miss Navajo pageant every year. But they are judged on things like building friction fire and killing and butchering a sheep.

So do they actually believe and worship in tribal gods, or just like to do the whole Native Culture thing, as a cultural heritage/activity.

A lot of indians on TV are portrayed in a very new agey, spiritual mumbo-jumbo sort of way, but all of the ones I have met personally have been pretty normal westerner type folks, Christian or not. But then I have never been near a reservation.

Carrikature
07-20-2017, 02:01 PM
Jack Chick was very serious. He saw demons and witchcraft everywhere, including in the Catholic church. Even in D&D games.

I know about the D&D one. It would make less sense to me if I hadn't grown up around people like that. Bobby Boucher's mother is real.

Littlejoe
07-20-2017, 02:14 PM
I know about the D&D one. It would make less sense to me if I hadn't grown up around people like that. Bobby Boucher's mother is real.
You better be careful talkin' about his mama...:uhoh: :outtie:

Trout
07-20-2017, 05:14 PM
So do they actually believe and worship in tribal gods, or just like to do the whole Native Culture thing, as a cultural heritage/activity.

They are very inclusive. When taught about Christ they added him into their traditional beliefs. Not abandoning anything.


A lot of indians on TV are portrayed in a very new agey, spiritual mumbo-jumbo sort of way, but all of the ones I have met personally have been pretty normal westerner type folks, Christian or not. But then I have never been near a reservation.

The Indians here are dead serious about their beliefs. I managed a large ag co-op for years and had to hire a medicine man many times. If you found a snake on your property, or an owl, the Navajo clientele refused to trade with us until the proper ceremony was held. The medicine men don't accept white man's money, so you had to figure out a suitable trade for their services.

rogue06
07-20-2017, 05:37 PM
They are very inclusive. When taught about Christ they added him into their traditional beliefs. Not abandoning anything.
That sounds a great deal like Hinduism.

tabibito
07-21-2017, 01:17 AM
That sounds a great deal like Hinduism.

Pantheistic cultures generally - including the Celts in the earlier centuries.

One Bad Pig
07-21-2017, 05:52 AM
Pantheistic cultures generally - including the Celts in the earlier centuries.

And the Romans.

Sparko
07-21-2017, 07:36 AM
They are very inclusive. When taught about Christ they added him into their traditional beliefs. Not abandoning anything.


The Indians here are dead serious about their beliefs. I managed a large ag co-op for years and had to hire a medicine man many times. If you found a snake on your property, or an owl, the Navajo clientele refused to trade with us until the proper ceremony was held. The medicine men don't accept white man's money, so you had to figure out a suitable trade for their services.

yeesh.

Carrikature
07-21-2017, 02:18 PM
And the Romans.

One of the interesting things about religion to me is how you can watch cultures intermingle and stories get borrowed/modified.

Rushing Jaws
09-13-2017, 02:34 PM
Jack Chick was very serious. He saw demons and witchcraft everywhere, including in the Catholic church. Even in D&D games.Especially in the Catholic Church. For Chick, the CC was the source of pretty much all evil:

Catholicism AKA the worship of Nimrod, Semiramis, and Tammuz
Popes
Jesuits
Bibles other than the AV-kjv
Islam
Nazism
Dungeons and Dragons
WW1
WW2
The assassination of Lincoln (by Jesuits, natch)

Druids may or may not be the fault of the Pope, but they are certainly - in the Chickverse - Babylonian.
Rock music, like evolution and homosexuality, is also satanic - possibly without involving the Pope or the Jesuits. If there is a stone for a devil to hide under, Chick lifted it. If it doesn't fit into Chick's world-view - satandunnit.

I don't recall any mention of Marx, Lenin and co. being Catholics, but there probably is one - I've not read all Chick's output, so have probably missed a lot. He thought Mohammed married a Catholic nun; that Kaiser Wilhelm II, a Lutheran, was a Catholic; and that Cardinal Newman was a Jesuit - so it would be no surprise if Chuck thought Marx and co. were Catholics. Careful scholarship was not his forte.

I doubt he thought up an original conspiracy theory in his life; his Grand Unified Theory about the CC is cribbed from the works of others. The real Big Bad in the Chickverse is satan - the Popes are, at most, his Dragons.

rogue06
09-13-2017, 04:38 PM
Especially in the Catholic Church. For Chick, the CC was the source of pretty much all evil:

Catholicism AKA the worship of Nimrod, Semiramis, and Tammuz
Popes
Jesuits
Bibles other than the AV-kjv
Islam
Nazism
Dungeons and Dragons
WW1
WW2
The assassination of Lincoln (by Jesuits, natch)

Druids may or may not be the fault of the Pope, but they are certainly - in the Chickverse - Babylonian.
Rock music, like evolution and homosexuality, is also satanic - possibly without involving the Pope or the Jesuits. If there is a stone for a devil to hide under, Chick lifted it. If it doesn't fit into Chick's world-view - satandunnit.

I don't recall any mention of Marx, Lenin and co. being Catholics, but there probably is one - I've not read all Chick's output, so have probably missed a lot. He thought Mohammed married a Catholic nun; that Kaiser Wilhelm II, a Lutheran, was a Catholic; and that Cardinal Newman was a Jesuit - so it would be no surprise if Chuck thought Marx and co. were Catholics. Careful scholarship was not his forte.

I doubt he thought up an original conspiracy theory in his life; his Grand Unified Theory about the CC is cribbed from the works of others. The real Big Bad in the Chickverse is satan - the Popes are, at most, his Dragons.
Well there you go. Obviously he was on to something.

:outtie:

Terraceth
09-26-2017, 06:37 PM
Especially in the Catholic Church. For Chick, the CC was the source of pretty much all evil:

Catholicism AKA the worship of Nimrod, Semiramis, and Tammuz
Popes
Jesuits
Bibles other than the AV-kjv
Islam
Nazism
Dungeons and Dragons
WW1
WW2
The assassination of Lincoln (by Jesuits, natch) Hrm... where did he claim the Catholic Church was behind Dungeons and Dragons? I know he thought Dungeons & Dragons was the tool of the devil or something like that, but I don't recall him connecting it explicitly with the Catholic Church.

What I find interesting, however, is that despite his constant tirades against the Catholic Church, he's quite silent in regards to Eastern Orthodoxy despite the fact that almost all of his doctrinal criticisms of the Catholic Church apply just as much to Eastern Orthodoxy. Eastern Orthodoxy is mentioned a few times on his site, in a negative light as you might expect, but the lack of mentions compared to the constant criticisms of Catholicism is a little odd. One might say it's simply because Catholicism is much bigger than Eastern Orthodoxy, but Eastern Orthodoxy is much larger than Mormonism, which was a frequent target of his.

Surprisingly, Jack Chick was apparently actually a really nice guy in person, if this account of meeting him (https://www.catholic.com/magazine/print-edition/meet-jack-chick) is any indication.

One Bad Pig
09-26-2017, 06:45 PM
Hrm... where did he claim the Catholic Church was behind Dungeons and Dragons? I know he thought Dungeons & Dragons was the tool of the devil or something like that, but I don't recall him connecting it explicitly with the Catholic Church.

What I find interesting, however, is that despite his constant tirades against the Catholic Church, he's quite silent in regards to Eastern Orthodoxy despite the fact that almost all of his doctrinal criticisms of the Catholic Church apply just as much to Eastern Orthodoxy. Eastern Orthodoxy is mentioned a few times on his site, in a negative light as you might expect, but the lack of mentions compared to the constant criticisms of Catholicism is a little odd. One might say it's simply because Catholicism is much bigger than Eastern Orthodoxy, but Eastern Orthodoxy is much larger than Mormonism, which was a frequent target of his.

Surprisingly, Jack Chick was apparently actually a really nice guy in person, if this account of meeting him (https://www.catholic.com/magazine/print-edition/meet-jack-chick) is any indication.
He may not have thought that they were sufficiently distinguishable to merit special attention. And Orthodoxy in English-speaking countries is relatively small (and not nearly as pushy for converts as Mormonism). :shrug:

I grew up in a church which distributed Chick tracts, and I never even heard of Orthodoxy until I joined the Navy (there was a Greek in my boot camp company).

Catholicity
09-26-2017, 07:53 PM
Dan found one in Wal mart a couple days ago. Read through it. We thus far have collected "The Death Cookie" "Hail Mary/Hail Satan" "Where did all the Dinosaurs go" (There's two of those with different stories) "This is your life" and the other "This is your life" Also a couple about Halloween. Ugh. He's dead and people are still passing his asshattery around.

KingsGambit
09-26-2017, 07:55 PM
He may not have thought that they were sufficiently distinguishable to merit special attention.

Odd that he'd go after such specific niche things as D&D and Christian rock but ignore an entire branch of Christianity.

rogue06
09-26-2017, 08:01 PM
Hrm... where did he claim the Catholic Church was behind Dungeons and Dragons? I know he thought Dungeons & Dragons was the tool of the devil or something like that, but I don't recall him connecting it explicitly with the Catholic Church.
Here is Dark Dungeons, Chick's comic concerning D&D: https://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/0046/0046_01.asp

KingsGambit
09-26-2017, 08:02 PM
Somebody kept leaving Spanish language tracts at a store I used to work at. I brought one home but have no idea what happened to it.

Terraceth
09-27-2017, 03:52 PM
Here is Dark Dungeons, Chick's comic concerning D&D: https://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/0046/0046_01.aspYes, I was aware of his infamously bad Dark Dungeons tract, in which he demonstrates he knows even less about Dungeons & Dragons than Dan Brown knows about Christianity. But where in it does he blame the Catholic Church for D&D?

Zymologist
10-04-2017, 09:22 AM
Is the Catholic Church responsible for heavy metal, too?



Shoot, I might have to become a Catholic. :outtie:

One Bad Pig
10-04-2017, 11:13 AM
Is the Catholic Church responsible for heavy metal, too?



Shoot, I might have to become a Catholic. :outtie:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ap3sIaLNYM

Zymologist
10-04-2017, 11:29 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ap3sIaLNYM

I'm familiar with the band, actually. They're not bad.

:smug:

rogue06
10-04-2017, 11:31 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ap3sIaLNYM
I'm waiting for heavy metal Gregorian chants

TheWall
10-04-2017, 11:34 AM
You can't have a Christian metal band that changes music in the mainstream
Stryper- Holds my black and yellow.

Sparko
10-04-2017, 11:35 AM
I'm waiting for heavy metal Gregorian chants

Gregorian Screamo :hehe:

One Bad Pig
10-04-2017, 11:39 AM
I'm waiting for heavy metal Gregorian chants
Gregorian chant is a cappella. Heavy metal is not.

This may be the closest you get:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rTF5AVS55tk

or perhaps this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZY9OTJGZ9bw

Zymologist
10-04-2017, 11:43 AM
I'm waiting for heavy metal Gregorian chants

In fact...you may be interested in a band called Batushka. (https://www.metal-archives.com/bands/Batushka/3540404077)

You have but to ask. :smile:

TheWall
10-04-2017, 11:45 AM
I learned about Stryper yesterday.
Not Gregory an chant but still awesome.

Zymologist
10-04-2017, 12:13 PM
In fact...you may be interested in a band called Batushka. (https://www.metal-archives.com/bands/Batushka/3540404077)

You have but to ask. :smile:

I could also recommend the little-known Epta Astera (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OhtMZofk4XE).

Rushing Jaws
10-15-2017, 07:04 PM
Hrm... where did he claim the Catholic Church was behind Dungeons and Dragons? I know he thought Dungeons & Dragons was the tool of the devil or something like that, but I don't recall him connecting it explicitly with the Catholic Church.

What I find interesting, however, is that despite his constant tirades against the Catholic Church, he's quite silent in regards to Eastern Orthodoxy despite the fact that almost all of his doctrinal criticisms of the Catholic Church apply just as much to Eastern Orthodoxy. Eastern Orthodoxy is mentioned a few times on his site, in a negative light as you might expect, but the lack of mentions compared to the constant criticisms of Catholicism is a little odd. One might say it's simply because Catholicism is much bigger than Eastern Orthodoxy, but Eastern Orthodoxy is much larger than Mormonism, which was a frequent target of his.

Surprisingly, Jack Chick was apparently actually a really nice guy in person, if this account of meeting him (https://www.catholic.com/magazine/print-edition/meet-jack-chick) is any indication. That’s what comes of writing posts late at night. He doesn’t attribute D and D to the CC, but the other stuff, he does. That, and pop music, are among the things he does not blame on the CC. What is possibly more surprising is that he did not blame the 1929 Crash, say, or the Vietnam War, on the CC. Perhaps the answer is that he was reliant on various sources for the things he does blame on it, but had no source connecting those two events to it.

The CC is historically the great enemy of Christianity/the American Way/Democracy/Freedom/the Bible for a certain strain of US Protestantism, just as it was the Whore of the Apocalypse for much of earlier Protestantism; that may explain why the Orthodox don’t get much attention. If the Papacy is “Babylon the Great, the Mother of Harlots and of the Abominations of the Earth”, that pretty much reduces all Churches with features comparable to the CC to bit-players. This identification of the Papacy has always been rather Europe-centred; the pre-Reformation Eastern Christianities (including those united with the Roman Papacy) have been largely ignored.

Mormonism, for all its differences from US Protestantism, has nothing like the Eldritch Horror status “enjoyed” by the CC. OTOH, as a religion “made in America”, Mormonism may have impressed itself upon Chick far more than Orthodoxy did. Especially as the US was until recently quite explicitly “Protestant America”. And the Reformation was a protest against Rome, not against Orthodoxy - when in 1582 Lutheran theologians wrote to the Patriarch Jeremias II, they were quite conciliatory; it is difficult to imagine their making more or less irenic overtures to Pope Gregory XIII.

rogue06
10-15-2017, 08:06 PM
That’s what comes of writing posts late at night. He doesn’t attribute D and D to the CC, but the other stuff, he does. That, and pop music, are among the things he does not blame on the CC. What is possibly more surprising is that he did not blame the 1929 Crash, say, or the Vietnam War, on the CC. Perhaps the answer is that he was reliant on various sources for the things he does blame on it, but had no source connecting those two events to it.

The CC is historically the great enemy of Christianity/the American Way/Democracy/Freedom/the Bible for a certain strain of US Protestantism, just as it was the Whore of the Apocalypse for much of earlier Protestantism; that may explain why the Orthodox don’t get much attention. If the Papacy is “Babylon the Great, the Mother of Harlots and of the Abominations of the Earth”, that pretty much reduces all Churches with features comparable to the CC to bit-players. This identification of the Papacy has always been rather Europe-centred; the pre-Reformation Eastern Christianities (including those united with the Roman Papacy) have been largely ignored.

Mormonism, for all its differences from US Protestantism, has nothing like the Eldritch Horror status “enjoyed” by the CC. OTOH, as a religion “made in America”, Mormonism may have impressed itself upon Chick far more than Orthodoxy did. Especially as the US was until recently quite explicitly “Protestant America”. And the Reformation was a protest against Rome, not against Orthodoxy - when in 1582 Lutheran theologians wrote to the Patriarch Jeremias II, they were quite conciliatory; it is difficult to imagine their making more or less irenic overtures to Pope Gregory XIII.
The feeling was mutual for the Catholics at the time and even today you can upon rare occasion find some that still feel that way.

Rushing Jaws
06-02-2018, 12:46 AM
Hrm... where did he claim the Catholic Church was behind Dungeons and Dragons? I know he thought Dungeons & Dragons was the tool of the devil or something like that, but I don't recall him connecting it explicitly with the Catholic Church......
Well caught :facepalm:

I don’t know why I included D & D. I probably shouldn’t have. Sorry about the fake info :grr: The rest is correct.

Rushing Jaws
06-02-2018, 12:50 AM
The feeling was mutual for the Catholics at the time and even today you can upon rare occasion find some that still feel that way.
More’s the pity. At least there is far less of this mutual antagonism than there was. But the whole lot needs to go. The [almost] last words of the Silmarillion seem apt:

“But Morgoth himself the Valar thrust through the Door of Night beyond the Walls of the World, into the Timeless Void; and a guard is set for ever on those walls, and Eärendil keeps watch upon the ramparts of the sky. Yet the lies that Melkor, the mighty and accursed, Morgoth Bauglir, the Power of Terror and of Hate, sowed in the hearts of Elves and Men are a seed that does not die and cannot be destroyed; and ever and anon it sprouts anew, and will bear dark fruit even unto the latest days.”

​http://www.ae-lib.org.ua/texts-c/tolkien__the_silmarillion__en.htm#24