Translating the Qu'ran

[logong]

I have heard that only the Arabic Qu'ran is considered the "Word of God" , and that any translation is a commentary at best. Can anyone elaborate on that for me with more specifics, as well as, discuss it's implications for non-Arabic speaking people? Thanks in advance. :smile:

[MuggleOrSquib]

By the time of Muhammad, there were several translations of the Bible in the Middle East (focusing here on Palestine, Arabia, Syria, Mesopotamia). There were three separate Syriac versions of the Gospels. I believe there were at least a couple Coptic/Egyptian translations. Given the doctrinal debates which had split the church 200 years before Muhammad, Moslem caution regarding translations makes sense.
Non-Arab Muslims still memorize the Qur'an in Arabic if possible. Moreover, only Classical Arabic, the language of the Qur'an (with added modern vocabulary) is considered proper Arabic (the equivalent of "the Queen's English").
I hope that helps a bit.
Bob Griffin

[logong]

Thanks, Bob. That is certainly helpful.

Yesterday @ 09:51 PM post located here (http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=349366#post349366)
MuggleOrSquib:

Given the doctrinal debates which had split the church 200 years before Muhammad, Moslem caution regarding translations makes sense.

Muslim caution regarding translations indeed makes sense. However, I get the impression that it goes beyond mere caution. Is it not true that Muslims believe that Arabic is superior to all other languages? Muslim belief in the superiority of Arabic seems to be supported by the fact that the Qu'ran says it is the language spoken in paradise? I would be curious to know how Arabic-speaking Muslims perceive those who call themselves Muslims, but cannot read or speak Arabic?

[MuggleOrSquib]

the Arabs apparently tended to look down on non-Arabic speakers. Some of this is mentioned in web-pages dealing with the Turko-Mongol 'Renaissance' following Tamerlane's conquests.

The Turks had felt slighted by the Arabs, but starting in the time of Tamerlane's son (forgot his name), they developed a very rich theological literature. Stumbled across this on the web some time last year.
I'm not sure about the Persians; there's probably a great deal of information about that.
It's actually a complex study, with different groups having different attitudes.
Be Well,
Bob Griffin

[Dr T]

12-22-2003 @ 10:39 PM post located here (http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=351772#post351772)
MuggleOrSquib:

the Arabs apparently tended to look down on non-Arabic speakers. Some of this is mentioned in web-pages dealing with the Turko-Mongol 'Renaissance' following Tamerlane's conquests.

The Turks had felt slighted by the Arabs, but starting in the time of Tamerlane's son (forgot his name), they developed a very rich theological literature. Stumbled across this on the web some time last year.
I'm not sure about the Persians; there's probably a great deal of information about that.
It's actually a complex study, with different groups having different attitudes.
Be Well,
Bob Griffin

I think that this was a big issue for the first few hundred years or so, there are a number of verses that imply that the Koran is for Arabs only. If I get time I will dig out the reference.

[logong]

Following are some excerpts from the book Behind the Veil, Unmasking Islam:

On the supremecy/inimitability of language of the Qur'an (pp.185-188)

Our Muslim brethren say that the eloquence of the Qur'an, the supremecy of its language and the beauty of its expression are conclusive evidence that the Qur'an is the Word of God because the inimitability of the Qur'an lies in its beautiful style of the Arabic language...

First, from a linguistic point of view, the eloquence of any book cannot be an evidence of the greatness of the book and proof that it was revealed by God, because what is important to God is not to manifest his power in the eloquence of the style and the expressive forcefulness of the classical Arabic language, but rather to embody His power in the sublime spiritual meaning contained in that book which will lead the people to a high spiritual level which enables them to live together in peace and love... God does not care to teach the people of the Earth the rules and principles of the Arabic language. God is not a teacher of a fading classical Arabic language, but the true living God is our spiritual leader in life, of love and joy...

The second very significant point is that the eloquence of the Qur'an and the supremecy of the classical Arabic language in which the Qur'an is written have created difficulty in reading and understanding, even for Arabs themselves. So what would we say about the non-Arabs even if they learn the Arabic language? The Qur'an will continue to be a problem for them, because it is not sufficient for a person to learn the Arabic language to be able to read the Qur'an. He also has to study the literature of the Arabic language thoroughly. Thus, we find that the majority of Arabs themselves do not understand the classical language of the Qur'an which contains hundreds of words which confused Muhammad's companions who mastered the language but failed to explain their meanings, along with many other words which even Muhammad's companions could not comprehend...

The question which imposes itself on us is: What advantage do the people of the world get out of the Book of God if it is written in a difficult language which makes it impossible for Arabs (even Muhammed's companions and his relatives) to comprehend it?

The other question which confronts us is this, Does God belong to the Arabs only? If His book can only be in Arabic, then it is written only to the Arabs and it should not be read except in Arabic as the scholars claim as if God were an Arabic God. Thus, the scholars prohibit praying to God in any other language than Arabic in all mosques. It is also required that the call for prayers and the confession of faith which attests that the man is a Muslim must be uttered in Arabic because Muhhamad said that Arabic is the language of paradise and the Arabs are the best nation created among peoples.

[Heathen Dawn]

12-19-2003 @ 09:15 PM post located here (http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=348928#post348928)
logong:

I have heard that only the Arabic Qu'ran is considered the "Word of God" , and that any translation is a commentary at best. Can anyone elaborate on that for me with more specifics, as well as, discuss it's implications for non-Arabic speaking people?

The Qur’an describes itself in a number of place as a qur’ānun ’arabiyyun mubīn, meaning “a clear Arabic recitation”. It expressly says the revelation is in Arabic and only in Arabic. That is the source of the reluctance of the Muslims towards translations of the Qur’an. Less than the Arabic version is not the Word of God, according to them.

[geneticperfecti]

The Qur’an describes itself in a number of place as a qur’ānun ’arabiyyun mubīn, meaning “a clear Arabic recitation”. It expressly says the revelation is in Arabic and only in Arabic. That is the source of the reluctance of the Muslims towards translations of the Qur’an. Less than the Arabic version is not the Word of God, according to them.
It comes to splitting hairs really. Obviously the intent of the author is best expressed in the language the author himself chose. The same applies for religious texts. Even the Bible differs between different languages, which would probably not be the case had it been retained from the past and kept in the original language.
Reciting the Quran in the language that Mohammad used allows it to retain as much of its original message as possible.

[Soundsurfr]

It comes to splitting hairs really. Obviously the intent of the author is best expressed in the language the author himself chose. The same applies for religious texts. Even the Bible differs between different languages, which would probably not be the case had it been retained from the past and kept in the original language.
Reciting the Quran in the language that Mohammad used allows it to retain as much of its original message as possible.
It's much different than that, and hard for us Westerners to understand. Think of it as a song lyric. There are songs whose lyrics seem silly, boring or even make no sense when spoken, but when you listen to them in the context of the music, they create an emotional image that can be quite powerful.

According to fluent Arabic speakers, the same thing is at work in the Q'ran. Naturally, this would be difficult or impossible for a non-Arabic speaker to experience.

The Q'ran is referred to as a "recitation" because it is intended to be recited or chanted aloud. It is not a chapter-by-chapter sequential text like the Bible - its sequences can be read in any order. The act of reciting it and chanting it is part of the whole understanding of the text. To say it gets lost in translation is an understatement.

[Daawud3rd]

As salaam alaykum wa rahmatu llan wa baraakaatuhu .
Its best to learn Classical Arabic if you can just take you time , Most muslims of the east are speaking a Dialect Of Arabic , What sad is throughout the muslim world most muslims can not Read , Write , Speak Arabic Fluently , Today the entire Arab world speak poor Dialects of Arabic according to their own county , Which in most cases is mixed with other languages such as Greek , Spanish , French , English , Bantu , And many other languages. Each Arab country has created their own form of Arabic . They use poor Dialect such as the ....
Word Dialect
How Chayf Shlown
What Aysh Ma
Sheeno Shu
Shin Mu
Yes Ay Aywa
Na;am I
Ina'am Wai
Where Hayn Fayn
Wayn Ayna
Weno
We Ihna Nahnu
Water Ma'a Moia
Maya
In Fe Aku
Shay Shii
Shast Bu
Not Mu Mub
Mush Laa
Laysa Lim
The script that the present day Qur'an is in , It is not from the Original , The present day script of the Qur'an is a form of Farsi ( Persian ) , Although , there are a variety of different Dialects and scripts of the Qur'an , Farsi isthe most widely used , And muslims acts as if there is only one Qur'an , In the same Script and Dialect . When you say to them , The Qur'an has been tampered with just like The Bible , Their response is '' Not In The Orginal Arabic '' Sadly , that not true . The Arabic is also Corrupted and Tampered with and each Qur'an is different in Different Islaamic Countries . There is an African Qur'an , Pakistanian Qur'an , Persian Qur'an , A variety of Kufic Script of the Qur'an , A Moroccan Qur'an And the list goes on and on . Again . The muslim world has done this purposely . To confuse You Non - Arabic speaking muslims , with all of these different script and Dialects , Muslims will swear that the Arabic in all Qur'an are Correct . In Suratul Falaq of the Moroccan Koran , The Nuqta is under the letter Faa When it should be over The Faa , At the end of the word Falaq . The Nuqtas are missing . However , they have Nuqtas over The Alif ( l ) which is totally Incorrect , This Change the word , meaning and the pronunciation . Again to a person who does not know the language , they will be misguided . I know muslims who havebeen muslims for 15 / 20 years in America and the caribbeans , And don't know Arabic fluently , People go to Germany And France A To Speak German And French in two years, Why is it that peoplecan learn German and French for pleasure, But a religious zealous Muslim can't learn Arabic in 15 / 20 years ?
Translators today also mistranslate certain words , To hide their meaning , take a look at the chart below ...
Word Incorrect Translation Correct Translation
Al Hamdu Praise Graditude
Qur'an 7 ; 43
Saalihaat Righteous Perfection
Qur'an 35 ; 7
Allah God The Source
Quran 20 ; 14
Rasuwl Prophet Newsbearer
Qur'an 19;19
Muslimiyn Submitter One Who Is Of Peace
Qur'an 22; 78
Zowj Wife Mate , One Of A Pair
Qur'an 24 ; 6
Qississiyn Monk Christian
Qur'an 5 ; 82
Isa Jesus Yashu'a
Qur'an 2 ; 87
Uzurq , Zurqaan Blur Blue Eyed
Umi Illiterate Gentile
Qur'an 7 ; 158
Khaliyfah Vice - Regent Left Behind
Qur'an 35 ; 39
Taqtaluwnaa Fight Kill
Qur'an 2 ; 87
Ibaadihi His Servant His Slave
Qur'an 35 ; 25
Aqra Recite Read
Qur'an 96 ; 1
One Must Understand The Language Of There Holy Book Be It The Bible Or Qur'an That it was originally write in to know what it saying . Because of the thousand's Mistranslation and Translation and Diffrent Version Of The Qur'an and Bible . Hope I Have Help You . If You Wish I Can Give You Some Of The Deffrent Names Translator Of the Qur'an