Secular Humanism

[Passant]

I've brought this up a couple of times in other threads, with no response. I'm really wondering how many atheist's here agree of disagree with the Philosophy of Humanism, and how many disagree, and on what points. Why is it that Humanism has not caught on better among atheist's?
Just curious.

[Vorkosigan]

What makes you say that it has not caught on?

[Passant]

Vork,
Only in the sense that many atheists seem not to consider themselves Humanists, and that pure Ahteist orginazations outnumber Humanist orginazations by a wide margin. I don't know, what do you think? It just seems to me that atheists don't embrace Humanisim as readily as I would of thought.

[Barron]

Yesterday @ 08:07 AM post located here (http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=350323#post350323)
Passant:

I've brought this up a couple of times in other threads, with no response. I'm really wondering how many atheist's here agree of disagree with the Philosophy of Humanism, and how many disagree, and on what points. Why is it that Humanism has not caught on better among atheist's?
Just curious.

I'm really not that well read about Humanism in particular. Can you post the basic tenets here or a link to them? I'll be happy to discuss where I fit with them.

Barron

[Passant]

Hey Barron!

Here's a link to Lamontt's Philosophy of Humanisim,
http://www.corliss-lamont.org/philos8.htm
and here's a site with some Humanist links,
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Forum/8666/tulsahumanists.html. Sorry, that's all the time I have right now. But let me know what you think!

[rach12]

12-21-2003 @ 09:07 AM post located here (http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=350323#post350323)
Passant:

I've brought this up a couple of times in other threads, with no response. I'm really wondering how many atheist's here agree of disagree with the Philosophy of Humanism, and how many disagree, and on what points. Why is it that Humanism has not caught on better among atheist's?
Just curious.
As Barron stated, I also am not familiar with humanism. You don't see Humanist temples/churches or meet people who call themselves humanists. I think Humanism needs promote itself more.

Thanks for the links.

[Passant]

Thanks Rach,

Humanists don't have temples or churchs. Although many Christians would disagre, Humanism is a philosophy, not a religion. (Although I think an American court has decided otherwise).

Yes, they do need to promote themselves more. Have you checked the links above? (gotta start somewhere).

Atheist rightly claim that atheism is not a religion, or a philosophy of life. It seems to me, that a large hurdle for people deconverting from religion is that it leaves a big hole in their life. Their entire mental foundation has been yanked out from under them. Something like humanism would be very helpfull here. Also, atheists don't have a coherant plan on how life should be lived, Humanism provides one. One based on reason, with the goal of promoting mankind. Perhaps I should start a church of Humanism, think I could get it set up tax free?

[rach12]

Today @ 12:15 PM post located here (http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=353033#post353033)
Passant:

Thanks Rach,

Humanists don't have temples or churchs. Although many Christians would disagre, Humanism is a philosophy, not a religion. (Although I think an American court has decided otherwise).

Yes, they do need to promote themselves more. Have you checked the links above? (gotta start somewhere).

Atheist rightly claim that atheism is not a religion, or a philosophy of life. It seems to me, that a large hurdle for people deconverting from religion is that it leaves a big hole in their life. Their entire mental foundation has been yanked out from under them. Something like humanism would be very helpfull here. Also, atheists don't have a coherant plan on how life should be lived, Humanism provides one. One based on reason, with the goal of promoting mankind. Perhaps I should start a church of Humanism, think I could get it set up tax free?

I think I should have used a few smilie faces, but was too rushed. I did actually know that Humanism is a philosophy similar to Buddhism and Taoism, and not a 'religion,' per se :smile: Buddhism is popular because most of us know Buddhists (my father is one), know a little about it, and it has temples that we can see and wonder about.

In my case, I had heard of Humanism, but never thought about it as a 'way of life.' I thought it was just a way of thinking. Does that make sense?

In my case, I grew up with religion and do miss a certain aspect of it. Theistic religions are out of the question as I consider myself a strong atheist (nothing god-like exists at all), but I do feel a desire to look into some sort of ... uh... spiritual fulfillment. Not sure that's the right word, but it has to do with what you said about a life plan. Or a way of looking at life.

(Sorry, I'm really inarticulate today for some reason... holiday on the brain, I suspect.)

[Passant]

I think I should have used a few smilie faces, but was too rushed.
I should have picked up on your humor, but I was rushed also!

I did actually know that Humanism is a philosophy similar to Buddhism and Taoism, and not a 'religion,' per se Buddhism is popular because most of us know Buddhists (my father is one), know a little about it, and it has temples that we can see and wonder about.

There are some similarities.

In my case, I had heard of Humanism, but never thought about it as a 'way of life.' I thought it was just a way of thinking. Does that make sense?
Emm... possibly.

In my case, I grew up with religion and do miss a certain aspect of it. Theistic religions are out of the question as I consider myself a strong atheist (nothing god-like exists at all), but I do feel a desire to look into some sort of ... uh... spiritual fulfillment. Not sure that's the right word, but it has to do with what you said about a life plan. Or a way of looking at life.

Yes, more of a life plan. Here’s the basics,
The Philosophy of Humanism
by Corliss Lamont
1. Humanism Defined

1 Humanism believes in a naturalistic metaphysics or attitude toward the universe that considers all forms of the supernatural as myth; and that regards Nature as the totality of being and as a constantly changing system of matter and energy which exists independently of any mind or consciousness.

2 Humanism, drawing especially upon the laws and facts of science, believes that homo sapiens is an evolutionary product of this great Nature of which we are a part; that our minds are indivisibly conjoined with the functioning of our brain; and that as an inseparable unity of body and personality, we can have no conscious survival after death.

3 Humanism, having its ultimate faith in mankind, believes that human beings possess the power or potentiality of solving their own problems, through reliance primarily upon reason and scientific method applied with courage and vision.

4 Humanism believes, in opposition to all theories of universal predestination, determinism, or fatalism, that human beings, while conditioned by the past, possess genuine freedom of creative choice and action, and are, within certain objective limits, the masters of their own destiny.

5 Humanism believes in an ethics or morality that grounds all human values in this-earthly experiences and relationships; and that holds as its highest goal the this-worldly happiness, freedom, and progress-economic, cultural, and ethical-of all mankind, irrespective of nation, race, or religion.

6 Humanism believes that the individual attains the good life by harmoniously combining personal satisfactions and continuous self-development with significant work and other activities that contribute to the welfare of the community.

7 Humanism believes in the widest possible development of art and the awareness of beauty, including the appreciation of Nature's loveliness and splendor, so that the aesthetic experience may become a pervasive reality in people's lives.

8 Humanism believes in a far-reaching social program that stands for the establishment throughout the world of democracy, peace, and a high standard of living on the foundations of a flourishing economic order, both national and international.

9 Humanism believes in the complete social implementation of reason and scientific method; and thereby in the use of democratic procedures, including full freedom of expression and civil liberties, throughout all areas of economic, political, and cultural life.

10 Humanism, in accordance with the scientific method, believes in the unending questioning of basic assumptions and conviction, including its own. Humanism is not a new dogma, but is a developing philosophy which remains ever open to experimental testing, newly discovered facts, and more rigorous reasoning.

These ten points embody Humanism in its most acceptable modern form. This philosophy can be more explicitly characterized as Scientific Humanism, Secular Humanism, Naturalistic Humanism, or Democratic Humanism, depending on the emphasis that one wishes to give. Whatever it be called, Humanism is the viewpoint that people have but one life to lead and should make the most of it in terms of creative work and happiness; that human happiness is its own justification and requires no sanction or support from supernatural sources; and that in any case the supernatural, usually conceived of in the form of heavenly gods or immortal heavens, does not exist; and that human beings, using their own intelligence and cooperating liberally with one another, can build an enduring citadel of peace and beauty upon this earth.



Sorry, I'm really inarticulate today for some reason... holiday on the brain, I suspect.

Ha! Join the club! I only celebrate Christmas for my family, but I still end up stressed out!

Let me know what you think!

[Vorkosigan]

Thanks, Passant. I tend to agree with your perception that most atheists are not humanists. I think you should note that some humanists are theists and even (gasp!) Christians (Charles Schulz, for example). So perhaps there isn't that nice fit between atheism and humanism that you might think there would be.

I think a lot of atheists probably feel that they didn't battle and defeat organized religion only to turn around and jump into some other system of belief. Plus, I suspect that personality type plays a large role in atheism, and many of us are loners/non-joiners. It's not so much a lack of interest in humanism, as it is a lack of interest in organizations in general.


Hope this helps.
Vorkosigan

[rach12]

12-23-2003 @ 05:57 PM post located here (http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=353491#post353491)
Passant:


Yes, more of a life plan. Here’s the basics,
The Philosophy of Humanism
by Corliss Lamont
1. Humanism Defined

1 Humanism believes in a naturalistic metaphysics or attitude toward the universe that considers all forms of the supernatural as myth; and that regards Nature as the totality of being and as a constantly changing system of matter and energy which exists independently of any mind or consciousness.

2 Humanism, drawing especially upon the laws and facts of science, believes that homo sapiens is an evolutionary product of this great Nature of which we are a part; that our minds are indivisibly conjoined with the functioning of our brain; and that as an inseparable unity of body and personality, we can have no conscious survival after death.

<snipped for the sake of brevity :smile: >


These ten points embody Humanism in its most acceptable modern form. This philosophy can be more explicitly characterized as Scientific Humanism, Secular Humanism, Naturalistic Humanism, or Democratic Humanism, depending on the emphasis that one wishes to give. Whatever it be called, Humanism is the viewpoint that people have but one life to lead and should make the most of it in terms of creative work and happiness; that human happiness is its own justification and requires no sanction or support from supernatural sources; and that in any case the supernatural, usually conceived of in the form of heavenly gods or immortal heavens, does not exist; and that human beings, using their own intelligence and cooperating liberally with one another, can build an enduring citadel of peace and beauty upon this earth.

(my bold)

Well, Passant, it turns out I'm a Humanist. Every single one of your 10 points is something that I have believed for quite some time now. I do, however, have some issue with point 2. I need some more insight into what exactly it's saying.

Although I am a complete skeptic with respect to god(s), I can't seem to throw away the idea that there is something more to humans. I think of it as a soul of sorts (consciousness?), mainly for lack of a better word, but it's something I feel quite strongly about. In essence, I don't disagree with point 2, because I don't think humans are aware of anything after death, but I guess I see it a little like Einstein (I think) in that energy cannot be destroyed. I envision the human consciousness as a sort of energy that cannot be destroyed, just transformed. Into what? I haven't a clue. I can't articulate it any better because it's not something I have spent a great deal of time contemplating. I suppose, it's possible that that particular segment of my personal philosophy is a remnant from my Christian days... or maybe I've read too many Jean Auel novels.:wink:

As for the bolded section of your post, the funny thing is, I came to that conclusion after hearing about a friend whose husband would not let her leave the house without him. She was not allowed to visit friends or family, or to answer the phone without him or his permission. I remember thinking what a horrible way to spend your entire life - at the mercy of someone else's whim's, and most importantly, shortcomings. Not letting anyone or anything have that much control over my one chance at life soon became a part of my personal philosophy. I choose the direction and quality of my life because I only get one shot at it and I am the one living it.

In contrast to Vorkosigan, I think many athiests are Humanists, they just don't know it. lol But I do agree that perhaps the reason atheists are reluctant to 'join' an organization that promotes what appears to be religious beliefs is because of personality and a general dislike of organized... anything, but especially religion.

I wouldn't call myself a loner, per se, but definitely a non-joiner - except for professional organizations and even those are a chore sometimes. I've been considering joining the local Buddhist temple for over a year now and cannot seem to make such a monumental:whistle: commitment. lol

Thanks for bringing Humanism to my attention. I will definitely pay more attention to it in the future and plan to pass it on to a few friends.

Cheers.

[Barron]

Hey Passant.

Sorry for the loooong delay. Tweb annoys my Safari browser at home so I don't tend to read it over holidays. I did go to a couple SH websites and print there various codes. They looked a lot like the one you pasted below, so I'll just us it as the model.



12-23-2003 @ 04:57 PM post located here (http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=353491#post353491)
Passant:

1 Humanism believes in a naturalistic metaphysics or attitude toward the universe that considers all forms of the supernatural as myth; and that regards Nature as the totality of being and as a constantly changing system of matter and energy which exists independently of any mind or consciousness.

I'm in agreement with this. I describe myself as a metaphysical naturalist and I'm also a realist. I'm less certain then they seem (that is, I could be wrong, but I think my current belief is right). I'm more the " assume naturalism until it proves insufficient", and so far it hasn't.

I'm a little annoyed by the unclear use of "myth" though. I think that myths can have real value and still not be literally true. That is, I think they can have poetic meaning rather than literal meaning.

2 Humanism, drawing especially upon the laws and facts of science, believes that homo sapiens is an evolutionary product of this great Nature of which we are a part; that our minds are indivisibly conjoined with the functioning of our brain; and that as an inseparable unity of body and personality, we can have no conscious survival after death.

I'm again in accord. I don't think there is life after death, but I could be wrong (let's just hope I don't have to test that just yet though :smile:

3 Humanism, having its ultimate faith in mankind, believes that human beings possess the power or potentiality of solving their own problems, through reliance primarily upon reason and scientific method applied with courage and vision.

Well if the problems are going to be solved it's humans that will do it.

4 Humanism believes, in opposition to all theories of universal predestination, determinism, or fatalism, that human beings, while conditioned by the past, possess genuine freedom of creative choice and action, and are, within certain objective limits, the masters of their own destiny.

I agree with this one. I don't think we have absolute freewill, but I think we have enough.

5 Humanism believes in an ethics or morality that grounds all human values in this-earthly experiences and relationships; and that holds as its highest goal the this-worldly happiness, freedom, and progress-economic, cultural, and ethical-of all mankind, irrespective of nation, race, or religion.

This one I generally agree with, but I don't think it's that useful a statement in practice. I tend to take my ethics from my politics rather than my naturalism or atheism, so I wouldn't look to humanism for it really.

6 Humanism believes that the individual attains the good life by harmoniously combining personal satisfactions and continuous self-development with significant work and other activities that contribute to the welfare of the community.

Again I broadly agree, but it's not too useful.

7 Humanism believes in the widest possible development of art and the awareness of beauty, including the appreciation of Nature's loveliness and splendor, so that the aesthetic experience may become a pervasive reality in people's lives.

Umm... OK, I agree pretty is good... (I don't really get this one).

8 Humanism believes in a far-reaching social program that stands for the establishment throughout the world of democracy, peace, and a high standard of living on the foundations of a flourishing economic order, both national and international.

Like 7., happiness, peace == good. Not too bold IMHO.

9 Humanism believes in the complete social implementation of reason and scientific method; and thereby in the use of democratic procedures, including full freedom of expression and civil liberties, throughout all areas of economic, political, and cultural life.

I'm wary of systems that try to raise reason and the scientific method to driving forces of society. I tend to see a balance between the quirks of human emotionalism and reason as a better goal. I think that when it comes to external, objective facts science is the best tool we have, but happiness and beauty are not scientific matters, and they are also important.

10 Humanism, in accordance with the scientific method, believes in the unending questioning of basic assumptions and conviction, including its own. Humanism is not a new dogma, but is a developing philosophy which remains ever open to experimental testing, newly discovered facts, and more rigorous reasoning.

Shrug on this one.

I agree in the general metaphysics and their acknowledgement that humans are the core of human life. I find their ethics generally good, but too broad to really say much more about. I tend to be suspicious of any deification of reason and science (yeah, I know, that's not what they are doing). From my other reading I also think they are too quick to drop "myth" and "religion" from useful consideration. I think the biggest difference is that my morals and ethics don't tend to be based on my naturalism in any serious way. You can predict my ethical ideas more easily knowing I'm a Liberal, American West Caost Democrat, than knowing I'm a naturalist and atheist...

Comments? Thoughts?

Barron

[kofh2u]

Passant:
1)
Yes, more of a life plan. Here’s the basics,

Wow. I wonder if you know about Abraham Maslow, the famous psychology guy? He was president of The American Association of Psychologists. He is called the Father of Srcular Humanism.
How do his ideas fit in here?


2)
The Philosophy of Humanism
by Corliss Lamont
1. Humanism Defined

1 Humanism believes in a naturalistic metaphysics or attitude toward the universe that considers all forms of the supernatural as myth; and that regards Nature as the totality of being and as a constantly changing system of matter and energy which exists independently of any mind or consciousness.


Would the reading of Genesis as shown below be adaptable to this view?

Gen. 1:1 In the beginning God, (The Universal Force), created the
heaven and the earth.
Gen. 1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the spirit of God, (the Natural Laws), moved upon the face of the waters.


2 Humanism, drawing especially upon the laws and facts of science, believes that homo sapiens is an evolutionary product of this great Nature of which we are a part; that our minds are indivisibly conjoined with the functioning of our brain; and that as an inseparable unity of body and personality, we can have no conscious survival after death.

With the recent insights afforded by Genetics, are we nevertheless still unconsciousless connected to former existences as we draw upon the human Genome for the material of our own birth?

Carl Jung said:
"The Collective Unconscious is a storehouse of all the experiences of humankind transmitted to each individual. As the repository for all
past experiences, it includes even our pre-human animal ancestry.
(Assumablely through the genetic processes.)"


3 Humanism, having its ultimate faith in mankind, believes that human beings possess the power or potentiality of solving their own problems, through reliance primarily upon reason and scientific method applied with courage and vision.

FAITH?
Humanist DO have faith, then?

4 Humanism believes, in opposition to all theories of universal predestination, determinism, or fatalism, that human beings, while conditioned by the past, possess genuine freedom of creative choice and action, and are, within certain objective limits, the masters of their own destiny.

Yes, Christians and Jews also believe in this "free will" kind of latitude became (evolved?) available only to men.

Gen. 3:5 For God, (the Almighty Power of the Universe) doth know that in the day ye eat (in contemplation) thereof, then
your eyes shall be opened (in Consciousness), and ye shall be as (mythological) gods, knowing good and bad (choices).


5 Humanism believes in an ethics or morality that grounds all human values in this-earthly experiences and relationships;

Do they favor the pagan axiom:

All behavior is acceptable as long as it is not harmful to others.

Or, do they respect a selfless unselfish charity that goes to the extreme of "Love even they enemy."

Furthe, you say humanism:
... holds as its highest goal the this-worldly happiness, freedom, and progress-economic, cultural, and ethical-of all mankind, irrespective of nation, race, or religion.


Humanism would "come to bring joy more abundant?"


6 Humanism believes that the individual attains the good life by harmoniously combining personal satisfactions and continuous self-development with significant work and other activities that contribute to the welfare of the community.

Maslow's Self Actualization principles?

7 Humanism believes in the widest possible development of art and the awareness of beauty, including the appreciation of Nature's loveliness and splendor, so that the aesthetic experience may become a pervasive reality in people's lives.

Ha. So Humanist love Father Nature, love the Universal Works, are enthralled and appreciative of the Creation.

8 Humanism believes in a far-reaching social program that stands for the establishment throughout the world of democracy, peace, and a high standard of living on the foundations of a flourishing economic order, both national and international.


Humanist are followers of the prince, the principles of peace, they are Peacemakers?


9 Humanism believes in the complete social implementation of reason and scientific method; and thereby in the use of democratic procedures, including full freedom of expression and civil liberties, throughout all areas of economic, political, and cultural life.

Are you saying that cold logic and mathematics are the ONLY tenets of sanity to be exercised? Jung suggests that human thinking is a complex of Four Functions. Intuition, Feeling, and Sensation are equal partners in the mental process of deciphering the meaning of the external reality and forming pre0psychological sets prior to behavioral responses.
Humanist do not insist ONLY upon Empiricism, ignoring the other eleven philodophical outlooks, does it?

10 Humanism, in accordance with the scientific method, believes in the unending questioning of basic assumptions and conviction, including its own. Humanism is not a new dogma, but is a developing philosophy which remains ever open to experimental testing, newly discovered facts, and more rigorous reasoning.

I look forward, then, to discussing this Humanism futher with humanist. Open mindedness and acceptance is or ought be the hall mark of lOve to one's neighbor.

Kofh2u,

You need to decide if you are a theist or not. If you are a theist, you cannot post in here. If you are not a theist, you can post in here but not in the Christian sections. So, which is it?

(If I am getting you confused with someone else, I apologize in advance)

[plabius]

I agree with the philosophy of humanism, but only as a privitive of fatalism. If one doesn't believe in supernatural beings with the power to control us, then logically it can only be us controlling ourselves, so we only have ourselves to pray to!
But this said, humanism really just seems like a basic starting point for atheistic philosophy. It does not neccecetate aestheticism or rationalism as impled by Corliss lamont and his philosophy of humanism posted in before: this is just one direction that this particular person chose to take it. Humanism is rather an empty term in my opinion. It is irrefutable from an atheist point of view, but also doesn't really mean anything in itself.